152 réponses à ce sujet

[WarBaby2]

dreamgazer wrote...

A Twitter message from Jessica Merizan confirmed that the EC will neither confirm nor deny its existence, only that one's interpretation shouldn't change based on the new content.  It does mean that the "theory" aspect of it has been somewhat dismissed, but it leaves the interpretation derived from the lore proper.  

Of course it will neither debunk nor solidify it! You can say about BW whatever you will, but all the IT believers are a good thing for them, 'cause they ultimatly are proofing that BWs "alot of speculation for everyone" ending was a success...

Oh the IRONY.^^

Modifié par WarBaby2, 25 juin 2012 - 08:31 .

[v0rt3x22]

RaenImrahl wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

This is the first extended effort I've seen to try to disprove IT.

Anyone that waves this away this without actually reading and considering it is in denial.

Or needs some eye drops.  The mustard and ketchup font colors are horrid.  The OP may want to consider revising... or Visine....

Wait a minute - you didn't lock this yet?

[estebanus]

dreamgazer wrote...

ucdcsteve wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC.

Where did you see this confirmation? 

A Twitter message from Jessica Merizan confirmed that the EC will neither confirm nor deny its existence, only that one's interpretation shouldn't change based on the new content.  It does mean that the "theory" aspect of it has been somewhat dismissed, but it leaves the interpretation derived from the lore proper.  

You mean the same Jessica Merizan who said not to trust the catalyst, that it wasn't a bug that EDI survives in the destroy ending, and who said the Normandy crashed on Earth?

[Ageless Face]

wryterra wrote...

1. TIM probably does believe he's doing it for the greater good. Indoctrination warps your beliefs, not radically reverses them. 

 

Yet you see the difference in attitude between TIM, and Dr.Kenson. She also belived she did things for the greater good. Yet she held no illusions she helps the reapers. TIM, if believed he did things for the greater good, didn't seem so far on beliving helping the reapers is a good thing. He fought the reapers. We SEE him doing it. And never up until the end, even when Shepard didn't work for him, has he stated that maybe the reapers are doing what the right thing. He said himself, the reapers are STILL his enemies. 

 
2. If TIM said 'Hey Shepard, there's no danger, just go kick their asses' do you think Shepard would have believed him?

 

Why not? Shepard believed he is doing things for the greater good, even though Shepard fought against Cerberus in ME1, and knows that Cerberus are a bunch of terrorists. TIM telling good enough words to convince Shepard, and the Normandy would be just another destroyed ship that tried to pass the Omega-4 relay.

  
3. You're arguing like I'm saying these things prove TIM is indoctrinated. I'm not. I'm just saying they specifically don't prove that he isn't. 

Not really. I'm just arguing .

[jules_vern18]

malakim2099 wrote...

wryterra wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

I only read the first few bits before my eyes started bleeding from the font color used, but if it's just TIM using "Lazarus Implants" to control Shepard... what about Anderson? Did TIM send some ninjas in and implant Anderson while he was sleeping or something, because he was controlled by TIM also?

Don't you remember the sequence where Anderson dies and Cerberus spend 2 years rebuilding him too? 

No, me either. 

You know, I just would like to know why SPACE MAGIC is okay, but the Indoctrination Theory is bad. Bad writing is acceptable, but fans trying to make sense of the nonsense is not?

And now it seems pretty much confirmed that SPACE MAGIC is the way to go with the EC... that's, better, than the IT?

Just because people don't like IT doesn't mean that they are saying Space Magic is okay.  You people and your false dichotomy.

Also, It is established on sanctuary that TIM has gained the ability to control people and that he's looking for a way to extend his power over the reapers.

[Ryzaki]

Uh no it's not.

TIM found a way to control Reaper forces. Not people. Try again.

That "I CAN NOW CONTROL YOUR BODY!" was pure asspull.

[Applepie_Svk]

n1 dude exactly most of these point I thought since week after release, I found a few new angles ...

[Menalaos1971]

Listen. It's simple. The EC is adding an Epliogue to the current ending. They wouldn't add an Epilogue to a halucination. The IT was just passionate fans that would rather believe the terrible ending that Bioware gave wasn't real. I understand this feeling. The Ending sucked, and they'll have a special place in Hell for those responsible, but the sad truth is that the Ending was what Bioware really intended.

[BatmanTurian]

OP is too afraid to come to the IT thread and engage us, so he creates a crappy speculation thread so that he can get support from people who already agree with him, rather than actually debating anybody who knows the full set of proofs laid down up to this moment. Most of OP's points are old and thrown away a long time ago, if not straw-men and misunderstanding to begin with.

[Grimwick]

jules_vern18 wrote...
Just because people don't like IT doesn't mean that they are saying Space Magic is okay.  You people and your false dichotomy.

Also, It is established on sanctuary that TIM has gained the ability to control people husks and that he's looking for a way to extend his power over the reapers.

Fixed.

[jakal66]

Guys, I really hope this happens but really, the more you learn about it the more you realize that the IT is not going to happen, that would include a lot of gameplay which apparently never happened in the EC so, it's too far fetched, although I believe it wwould have been a kick ass ending...but you would need a lot of gameplay after that,at least if you resisted the indoctrination..but well see for sure tomorrow

[llbountyhunter]

Menalaos1971 wrote...

Listen. It's simple. The EC is adding an Epliogue to the current ending. They wouldn't add an Epilogue to a halucination. The IT was just passionate fans that would rather believe the terrible ending that Bioware gave wasn't real. I understand this feeling. The Ending sucked, and they'll have a special place in Hell for those responsible, but the sad truth is that the Ending was what Bioware really intended.

IT hinges on the fact that the endings are real. Try again.

And maybe look at the links in my thread for some more info on IT.

[llbountyhunter]

jakal66 wrote...

Guys, I really hope this happens but really, the more you learn about it the more you realize that the IT is not going to happen, that would include a lot of gameplay which apparently never happened in the EC so, it's too far fetched, although I believe it wwould have been a kick ass ending...but you would need a lot of gameplay after that,at least if you resisted the indoctrination..but well see for sure tomorrow

You dont need gameplay... look at my threads... ive axplained it before...

Also the space magic is more far fetched than what ITlogic.

[liggy002]

Lord Goose wrote...

This is Shepard's eye during the synthesis ending. He's further from the camera and a lot of the time it's distorted by the green pulses, but this is still a clear enough shot to tell, without a doubt, that he has the same eyes here as in control.

Hopefully this helps convince someone that doesn't believe the eye evidence, which I personally consider to be the strongest evidence of the indoctrination theory.

That could be his/her eye implants affected by the energy. Or simply showing, since his flesh is burning out.
Renegade Shepard has similiar eyes, but inverted.



http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

Yes, they're inverted.... so your counterargument against the eyes does not work.

[Code_R]

Grimwick wrote...

Speculation about speculation doesn't prove nor debunk anything.

[AHadley23]

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence... and that which can be dismissed without evidence can be reasserted without it too. Until there is evidence (EC) there is nothing but speculation. So there really is no point.

[llbountyhunter]

AHadley23 wrote...

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence... and that which can be dismissed without evidence can be reasserted without it too. Until there is evidence (EC) there is nothing but speculation. So there really is no point.

Well IT has evidence... but not proof, so its a theory.

But EC comes out tomorrow anyways...

[Menalaos1971]

llbountyhunter wrote...

AHadley23 wrote...

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence... and that which can be dismissed without evidence can be reasserted without it too. Until there is evidence (EC) there is nothing but speculation. So there really is no point.

Well IT has evidence... but not proof, so its a theory.

But EC comes out tomorrow anyways...

No, your speculation is not evidence.

[JBPBRC]

thisisme8 wrote...

Ok, so I just read it, and I'm not sure what's worse:

The colors in the OP

Could be worse. He could've used Red, Blue and Green.

[llbountyhunter]

Menalaos1971 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

AHadley23 wrote...

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence... and that which can be dismissed without evidence can be reasserted without it too. Until there is evidence (EC) there is nothing but speculation. So there really is no point.

Well IT has evidence... but not proof, so its a theory.

But EC comes out tomorrow anyways...

No, your speculation is not evidence.

Do you know what evidence is?

Or perhaps you dont understand IT?

Serious question by the way, because the dictionary defintion of "theory" fits IT.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 25 juin 2012 - 09:54 .

[malakim2099]

jules_vern18 wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

wryterra wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

I only read the first few bits before my eyes started bleeding from the font color used, but if it's just TIM using "Lazarus Implants" to control Shepard... what about Anderson? Did TIM send some ninjas in and implant Anderson while he was sleeping or something, because he was controlled by TIM also?

Don't you remember the sequence where Anderson dies and Cerberus spend 2 years rebuilding him too? 

No, me either. 

You know, I just would like to know why SPACE MAGIC is okay, but the Indoctrination Theory is bad. Bad writing is acceptable, but fans trying to make sense of the nonsense is not?

And now it seems pretty much confirmed that SPACE MAGIC is the way to go with the EC... that's, better, than the IT?

Just because people don't like IT doesn't mean that they are saying Space Magic is okay.  You people and your false dichotomy.

Also, It is established on sanctuary that TIM has gained the ability to control people and that he's looking for a way to extend his power over the reapers.

Ah yes, "you people." Because anyone that vaguely supports IT at all is considered to be some sort of out-of-touch cultist who simply can't reason, right? <_<

(Not saying YOU in particular... but I've lost count of the number of times IT supporters have been called that.)

Didn't recall the bit about TIM controlling people, however, so thank you for that. Personally, I liked the idea of the Crucible as a Reaper trap. Think about it, these powerful cuttlefish from Dark Space come to trounce all the galaxy, and you're desperately looking for something to stop them... but lo and behold, there's this Miracle Device the previous cycle ALMOST completed! So instead of maybe innovating some new way to defeat them... you end up wasting your time and resources on the MacGuffin that the Reapers left for you in the first place.

[Dragoonlordz]

Why you lot still bickering over this, wait till tomorrow and see if true or not. It will either be shown in EC or it will not. Either way while you can keep beliving it's all a dream the question will be answered whether Bioware wishes their story to be what you think it is or not. There is only going to be one ending DLC as they have said, if it is not your IDT then it never will be because they won't be revisting this topic in future DLC. Simple as that.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 25 juin 2012 - 10:02 .

[jules_vern18]

dreamgazer wrote...

ucdcsteve wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC.

Where did you see this confirmation? 

A Twitter message from Jessica Merizan confirmed that the EC will neither confirm nor deny its existence, only that one's interpretation shouldn't change based on the new content.  It does mean that the "theory" aspect of it has been somewhat dismissed, but it leaves the interpretation derived from the lore proper.  

Right.  It doesn't mean that you can't still believe in IT or use it to replace the current endings for yourself, but it looks like Bioware will not be confirming it as their intended ending.  In that same tweet, J.M. says that there shouldn't be anything in the EC that would prevent players from still believing in IT if they chose to either, meaning that it may be set up in a way that an IT believer could still view the entire ending sequence (including epilogues) as an indoc. hallucination.  Sounds like i's going to be harder to do, though (at least from my standpoint).

[memorysquid]

jules_vern18 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

ucdcsteve wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

Sorry OP, but it looks like your post wasn't necessary - IT has already been debunked by the fact that it will (confirmed) not be featured in the EC.

Where did you see this confirmation? 

A Twitter message from Jessica Merizan confirmed that the EC will neither confirm nor deny its existence, only that one's interpretation shouldn't change based on the new content.  It does mean that the "theory" aspect of it has been somewhat dismissed, but it leaves the interpretation derived from the lore proper.  

Right.  It doesn't mean that you can't still believe in IT or use it to replace the current endings for yourself, but it looks like Bioware will not be confirming it as their intended ending.  In that same tweet, J.M. says that there shouldn't be anything in the EC that would prevent players from still believing in IT if they chose to either, meaning that it may be set up in a way that an IT believer could still view the entire ending sequence (including epilogues) as an indoc. hallucination.  Sounds like i's going to be harder to do, though (at least from my standpoint).

It should be a lot harder to do, after hearing the interview where they said they simply didn't anticipate people thinking everyone would starve or the relays would blow up the solar systems and wrote the EC to clarify things like that.  That means they didn't intend IT at all.

[jules_vern18]

malakim2099 wrote...

jules_vern18 wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

wryterra wrote...

malakim2099 wrote...

I only read the first few bits before my eyes started bleeding from the font color used, but if it's just TIM using "Lazarus Implants" to control Shepard... what about Anderson? Did TIM send some ninjas in and implant Anderson while he was sleeping or something, because he was controlled by TIM also?

Don't you remember the sequence where Anderson dies and Cerberus spend 2 years rebuilding him too? 

No, me either. 

You know, I just would like to know why SPACE MAGIC is okay, but the Indoctrination Theory is bad. Bad writing is acceptable, but fans trying to make sense of the nonsense is not?

And now it seems pretty much confirmed that SPACE MAGIC is the way to go with the EC... that's, better, than the IT?

Just because people don't like IT doesn't mean that they are saying Space Magic is okay.  You people and your false dichotomy.

Also, It is established on sanctuary that TIM has gained the ability to control people and that he's looking for a way to extend his power over the reapers.

Ah yes, "you people." Because anyone that vaguely supports IT at all is considered to be some sort of out-of-touch cultist who simply can't reason, right? <_<

(Not saying YOU in particular... but I've lost count of the number of times IT supporters have been called that.)

Didn't recall the bit about TIM controlling people, however, so thank you for that. Personally, I liked the idea of the Crucible as a Reaper trap. Think about it, these powerful cuttlefish from Dark Space come to trounce all the galaxy, and you're desperately looking for something to stop them... but lo and behold, there's this Miracle Device the previous cycle ALMOST completed! So instead of maybe innovating some new way to defeat them... you end up wasting your time and resources on the MacGuffin that the Reapers left for you in the first place.

To Clarify:  I didn't mean "you people" in a heavily derogatory manner, it was more like "sheesh, you guys again" while I was writing it.  And no, not all ITers believe in the whole false dichotomy between pro-enders and anti-IT...it's just frustrating for me as a person who dislikes both IT and the current endings.  I also would have liked the idea of the Crucible as a Reaper trap and fully expected it as i played through the game (boy was I wrong).

To Provide Closure:  I really don't have anything against IT and have changed my previously aggressive anti-IT stance.  I even hope that people who believe in IT can still do so after the EC comes out.  I just post news like this so people don't continue to get your hopes up - people who are still convinced that tomorrow's DLC will reveal IT to be true (that it was Bioware's intention) are going to be crushed.

Modifié par jules_vern18, 25 juin 2012 - 10:17 .