I know, I know, this topic has been discussed alot, but with the dex fix that comes with v1.02, does it make more sense to up dex further than previously?
I realize that cun is still king when it comes to DW rogues, with the bonuses to armor piercing and whatnot, but since dex adds to dagger damage, I wonder if it would make sense to add more dex for the defense, with it still adding damage.
Someone with good rogue experience, please inform this (relative) nub in the best way to stat a DW rogue.
Thanks in advance!
With patch 1.02, best DW rogue stats?
Débuté par
khevan
, déc. 14 2009 08:56
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#2
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 09:30
Haplose
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Max Dex rogue: survivable, self-sustained, great Defence and Attack even without friendly buffs; good damage really.
Max Cunning Rogue: Very high damage, a bit fragile, relies on party to tank the enemies while he goes for their backs, relies on friendly buffs to reach good Attack levels (and potentially decent Defence too), relies on Stealth or Feign Death to drop aggro if he get's it.
Cunning Rogue probably has a bit more party-synergy, where he acts as the biggest damage dealer, but relies heavily on the rest of the party for tanking and buffing his stats.
Dex Rogue can tackle most situations on his own (eventually, once he has lots of Dex and good equipment). Still has to watch out for autohit attacks (like, say, golem Slams, Ogre Rams and such) and spellcasters - especially if more then 1.
Max Cunning Rogue: Very high damage, a bit fragile, relies on party to tank the enemies while he goes for their backs, relies on friendly buffs to reach good Attack levels (and potentially decent Defence too), relies on Stealth or Feign Death to drop aggro if he get's it.
Cunning Rogue probably has a bit more party-synergy, where he acts as the biggest damage dealer, but relies heavily on the rest of the party for tanking and buffing his stats.
Dex Rogue can tackle most situations on his own (eventually, once he has lots of Dex and good equipment). Still has to watch out for autohit attacks (like, say, golem Slams, Ogre Rams and such) and spellcasters - especially if more then 1.
#3
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 01:11
Enoch VG
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Everything Haplose said is accurate.
Just to give it a little more depth, a CUN rogue goes with 20 ST (for armor), DEX around 30 (need 30 with equipment for best daggers, but more still gives you more Attack and Defense), and CUN as high as you can get it.
A DEX rogue goes with 20 ST, and a CUN of either 22 (for skill prerequisites), 30 (with 4 ranks of deft hands, enough to open all locks), or 35 (saves you a skillpoint in Coercion).
As for talents, CUN rogue obviously wants Lethality early. Momentum is a high priority for everyone. DEX rogue can pass on Lethality, or at least put it off until much later (the other Talents in that tree are of only marginal usefulness) and thus has more flexibility.
Just to give it a little more depth, a CUN rogue goes with 20 ST (for armor), DEX around 30 (need 30 with equipment for best daggers, but more still gives you more Attack and Defense), and CUN as high as you can get it.
A DEX rogue goes with 20 ST, and a CUN of either 22 (for skill prerequisites), 30 (with 4 ranks of deft hands, enough to open all locks), or 35 (saves you a skillpoint in Coercion).
As for talents, CUN rogue obviously wants Lethality early. Momentum is a high priority for everyone. DEX rogue can pass on Lethality, or at least put it off until much later (the other Talents in that tree are of only marginal usefulness) and thus has more flexibility.
Modifié par Enoch VG, 14 décembre 2009 - 01:14 .
#4
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 01:39
Solwen_Polyhymnia
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As far as flexibility Cun build can forgo 2 to 3 levels of lockpicking talent as well as a level or two of persuasion so can regain lost flexibility by needing to take lethality.
#5
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:00
RobotXYZ
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Not wanting to highjack the thread, but I thought a discussion of balanced stats would add to the thread..
Why pump a stat? Why not have an all around good character so high dex AND cunning? For that matter if you add some strength and willpower that might be good. Strength to wear medium armor? And access to longswords which have a higher str multiplier (which will be switched to cunning multiplier with lethality)... 31 Str would give you some nice longswords and medium armor...
Why pump a stat? Why not have an all around good character so high dex AND cunning? For that matter if you add some strength and willpower that might be good. Strength to wear medium armor? And access to longswords which have a higher str multiplier (which will be switched to cunning multiplier with lethality)... 31 Str would give you some nice longswords and medium armor...
#6
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:44
Gecon
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Err ?!? Why for gods sake would a Rogue want to wear medium armor ?!? You enjoy increased aggro and higher fatigue cost, or what ? And with high Dex you will hardly ever get hit, too.
If you want to use any other weapon than dagger, yes you have to pump Str. A lot. In fact, while you're at it, you best forget about Cun and Lethality and instead make a Str based Rogue, because now Dex only gives 1/2 Atk and nothing else, so you have to pump Str for getting damage.
If you want to use any other weapon than dagger, yes you have to pump Str. A lot. In fact, while you're at it, you best forget about Cun and Lethality and instead make a Str based Rogue, because now Dex only gives 1/2 Atk and nothing else, so you have to pump Str for getting damage.
#7
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:53
Gaidren
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I'm currently messing around with a Str based rogue, and I actually love it. The loss of Momentum is trivial once you have Haste in your party, and you have tons of free talent/skill points.
I'm currently at over 60 Str using Starfang 2h sword. My backstabs hit for 130-140-ish. Poisons proccing less often kind of sucks, as does overkill hits (mob has a sliver of life left, and I have to wait for my next slow swing to do 100+ more damage than I need to kill it). What's awesome about 2h Str rogues is being able to use the Warden's chest armor (+15% crit/backstab dmg), being able to do huge crits out of stealth, and using Below the Belt to reset the swing timer (it's an instant attack, so it hits harder with 2h weapons *and* you do another regular swing right after it....which is trivial with fast attacking daggers but huge with a 2her).
Not needing any points in DWing makes maxing out the specialiazation trees (Assassin and Duelist for me) easy too.
I'm currently at over 60 Str using Starfang 2h sword. My backstabs hit for 130-140-ish. Poisons proccing less often kind of sucks, as does overkill hits (mob has a sliver of life left, and I have to wait for my next slow swing to do 100+ more damage than I need to kill it). What's awesome about 2h Str rogues is being able to use the Warden's chest armor (+15% crit/backstab dmg), being able to do huge crits out of stealth, and using Below the Belt to reset the swing timer (it's an instant attack, so it hits harder with 2h weapons *and* you do another regular swing right after it....which is trivial with fast attacking daggers but huge with a 2her).
Not needing any points in DWing makes maxing out the specialiazation trees (Assassin and Duelist for me) easy too.
#8
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 02:56
Silensfurtim
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khevan wrote...
I know, I know, this topic has been discussed alot, but with the dex fix that comes with v1.02, does it make more sense to up dex further than previously?
I realize that cun is still king when it comes to DW rogues, with the bonuses to armor piercing and whatnot, but since dex adds to dagger damage, I wonder if it would make sense to add more dex for the defense, with it still adding damage.
Someone with good rogue experience, please inform this (relative) nub in the best way to stat a DW rogue.
Thanks in advance!
#9
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 03:32
DragoonKain3
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Note that Discobird's DW discussion was made with the DEX hotfix in mind. So everything in there still applies to 1.02.
#10
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 06:09
khevan
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Thanks for the answers everyone. I appreciate the help.
#11
Posté 14 décembre 2009 - 07:14
RobotXYZ
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"Err ?!? Why for gods sake would a Rogue want to wear medium armor ?!? You enjoy increased aggro and higher fatigue cost, or what ? And with high Dex you will hardly ever get hit, too.
If you want to use any other weapon than dagger, yes you have to pump Str. A lot. In fact, while you're at it, you best forget about Cun and Lethality and instead make a Str based Rogue, because now Dex only gives 1/2 Atk and nothing else, so you have to pump Str for getting damage."
My reply is going to be based on speculation rather than on a tested play through (or calculations).
With the agro I am hoping Alistair in Massive armor with taunt is going to make that redundant. Second I am not talking pure strength. I am talking 31 (with gear) to wield longswords. Then 60 cunning (with gear) to pass coercion (2 ranks) and traps (deft hands) checks. The multiplier on longswords for your cunning will be higher than the multiplier with daggers. Either go 4th rank talents and dual wield longswords or 3rd rank talents and Sword + dagger. Now your still going to take enough dexterity for lethality and maybe dual longswords (4th talent in dualwielding).
So the only difference between a dex/cunning hybrid is 11 extra points of strength (some can be gear). You still build 60+ cunning and plenty of dex.
As far as losing dex defense thats true but you don't need as much dex when you have medium armor because you take less damage/hit.
My build is going to use haste instead of momentum (they do not stack) which will save me some stamina for the stamina cost on medium armor.
Cheers.
If you want to use any other weapon than dagger, yes you have to pump Str. A lot. In fact, while you're at it, you best forget about Cun and Lethality and instead make a Str based Rogue, because now Dex only gives 1/2 Atk and nothing else, so you have to pump Str for getting damage."
My reply is going to be based on speculation rather than on a tested play through (or calculations).
With the agro I am hoping Alistair in Massive armor with taunt is going to make that redundant. Second I am not talking pure strength. I am talking 31 (with gear) to wield longswords. Then 60 cunning (with gear) to pass coercion (2 ranks) and traps (deft hands) checks. The multiplier on longswords for your cunning will be higher than the multiplier with daggers. Either go 4th rank talents and dual wield longswords or 3rd rank talents and Sword + dagger. Now your still going to take enough dexterity for lethality and maybe dual longswords (4th talent in dualwielding).
So the only difference between a dex/cunning hybrid is 11 extra points of strength (some can be gear). You still build 60+ cunning and plenty of dex.
As far as losing dex defense thats true but you don't need as much dex when you have medium armor because you take less damage/hit.
My build is going to use haste instead of momentum (they do not stack) which will save me some stamina for the stamina cost on medium armor.
Cheers.
Modifié par RobotXYZ, 14 décembre 2009 - 07:16 .
