173 réponses à ce sujet

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Let's discuss the single biggest, stupidest, most annoying facet of fighting Phantoms - that which is worse than their cloaking and instant kills combined, and the part which absolutely necessitates the use of Stasis against them because nothing else works: those ridiculous invulnerabiltiy shields Phantoms can create at-will.

For the uninitiated, Phantoms have the ability to create "palm shields" that render them completely impervious to every single power except Stasis and Tactical Scan. These shields are in addition to (and indeed, can be used in conjunction with) the already-incredible mobility Phantoms already possess, which allows them to easily dodge projectile powers such as Warp, Throw, Concussion Shot, Carnage, and Incinerate. Energy Drain and Overload sometimes get around the invincible palm-shield, but are very hit-or-miss about it, and seem to fail to register correctly with some frequency. No ability can effect a Phantom using the palm-shield - not even grenades or wide-area-of-effeect attacks like Shockwave, Smash, or Reave. Even Drone or Turret weapons will not effect a Phantom who has the Palm-shield going!

The problem is that this shield can be used at any point in time - and whenever the Phantom chooses, even when the Phantom is charging head-long at you firing off its palm-shots of doom or charging for a close-combat rape kill. Putting it succintly, the abilities you have that can stop a Phantom's charge as a result will not so much as put a dent in them as it closes in. Only gunfire or melee (which is borderline-suicidal if the gods of latency do not favor you) will effect a Phantom during this, which (amongst other things) means that massed Phantoms are literally impossible to quickly dispatch without Missiles or gun-related Stagger (I.E. the Falcon or Scorpion). On gold, a conga-line of these things coming at you is the quickest possible way to a TPK in existence.

This is the single biggest issue with Phantoms and it needs immediate addressing. With no way to reliably stagger them courtesy of the Palm shield, and said shields providing complete resistance to grenade powers and other sources of stagger, a player's options against a Phantom are typically limited to "Pack a shotgun and prey you cause a stagger," "Be a Krogan, Heavy melee, and pray you aren't instant-killed," "drop stasis," or "die horribly. The worst part? The Phantom need not even be facing you. You can hit her from below, above, or behind, and still will do nothing. As a test, CeilingKid, RoadGGG, and myself once spammed grenades on a Phantom; 3 Inferno Grenades, 4 Lift Grenades, and 3 Arc Grenades later, she had taken no damage and I emitted a profanity likely audible in space.

This is ridiculous, and is idiotic. A Phantom getting close is tantamount to a death sentence already, and unfortunately, a Phantom is more than capable of getting close unless you have someone who can stop it. Phantoms already have super dodge skills, solid offensive capability, reasonable defense, instant kills, and cloaking. They do not need an "invincible to everything because I have a glowy hand" power on top of this.

Remove Phantom Invulnerability Shields.

[Tokenusername]

No. Otherwise they would be the worse boss ever.

[Cyonan]

If they go into their ability immunity shield, you can just shoot them.

Once you drop their shields, they enter defensive mode and flip, cloak, then run away unless you have them cornered.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

No. Otherwise they would be the worse boss ever.

Yes, because it adds nothing, they still die to gunfire already, and it does nothing but make them a completely cheese enemy on gold when you face conga-lines of 4 phantoms at a time that won't die because you can't do anything to them whatsoever with powers, ergo necessitating the likes of Infiltrators for damage spikes. And you guys wonder why that class is so insufferably prevalent.

[soldo9149]

they are not boss's but annoying space ninjas

[Immaculate J]

I wouldn't call them bosses, they spawn in 100000 times nin wave 10 hack circles -.-

[Blind2Society]

The only thing that needs to be changed about phantoms is they should not be able to interrupt heavy melees with their insta-kill. However, this can be said about every enemy with insta-kill capabilities.

Phantom specific? That palm cannon, it's waaaaaayyyyy too powerful.

Other than that, phantoms are fine.

Modifié par Blind2Society, 25 juin 2012 - 11:27 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Immaculate J wrote...

I wouldn't call them bosses, they spawn in 100000 times nin wave 10 hack circles -.-

YES, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS, AND THERE'S NO LAW OF DIMINISHING NINJA UTILITY TO SAVE US

[Raziel1030]

Make them have to be stationary while they do it. Done.

[Deucetipher]

The shield make them vulnerable to guns though. Easiest way to knock 'em down. Force them to shield then a claymore to the skull.

[Adhok42]

Tokenusername wrote...

No. Otherwise they would be the worse boss ever.

They're not even a boss. They have a head I can get headshot bonus on. Warp ammo plus sniper=POP!

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Make them have to be stationary while they do it. Done.

Make the effect more obvious, and you have yourself a deal.

[DragoGoldenwing]

Personally I don't think they need to lose it, I think they'd be perfect as a challenging but not outright idiotically cheesy enemy if they lost the ability to attack while they have their shield up. It would still let them get within melee range easily if you aren't careful, but nine times out of ten when I die to a 'Phantom' it isn't even the Phantom, it's one or two of them putting their shield up to block everyone's powers WHILE dropping my shields with mind bullets and moving around the battlefield at superspeed so their buddies can finish the job.
Having that kind of immunity while being able to outDPS the entire rest of the Cerberus force combined at the same time with their hand cannon is... Cheese. There's no other word for it but cheese.

[Strict31]

I think Phantoms are a cheap and crappy enemy. If you've ever played a table-top RPG, the Phantom is like when a sh*tty Game Master brings in his favorite character as an NPC or as an enemy for the players, and then does everything he can to make that character AWESOMES. Or when an equally sh*tty Game Master keeps tweaking the rules behind the scenes to keep the players from easily beating an enemy he thought would be kick-ass.

That's the Phantom.

The Phantom is not an inventive or clever design. It does not do inventive and clever things, because it does ALL THE THINGS. Without the Phantom, Cerberus forces would be useless. The reason for this is that the Phantom does everything every other Cerb unit does, but better. She's even better than a Turret, because she can do space-karate and backflip while she shoots you.

But what truly reveals how cheap and sh*tty the Phantom is, is the fact that there are painfully, absurdly easy ways to shut all of her advantages down. The problem is that these methods are not available to every character class, however. An Asari Adept can f*ck a Phantom up quick with Stasis. That's not the only method, just one example.

Unfortunately, because there are methods available to the player to shut the Phantom down, I no longer believe removing her invulnerability-fist would be a viable option. I'd rather see them remove those dipsh*t stabilization jets she has when she gets Lash'd. It looks dumb and is the type of idea designed by an intellect which probably thought a velociraptor riding a shark while firing an UZI and throwing dynamite somehow wasn't sufficiently awesome...so they added Wolverine claws on top of the Raptor's raptor-claws.

No, if anything should be changed about the Phantom's invulnerability, it's that she should not be allowed to spam it.

Her hand blaster could be toned down as well, I reckon.

But since there are a few ways to utterly crush her, I don't think the Phantom should be nerf'd too much.

Modifié par Strict31, 25 juin 2012 - 11:24 .

[Kenadian]

The only thing I want to see changed is their overpowered lulzcannon.

[Strict31]

Kenadian wrote...

The only thing I want to see changed is their overpowered lulzcannon.

It's like a pea-shooter that fires depleted uranium spitballs covered in poison and propelled by quiet despair.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Strict31 wrote...

I think Phantoms are a cheap and crappy enemy. If you've ever played a table-top RPG, the Phantom is like when a sh*tty Game Master brings in his favorite character as an NPC or as an enemy for the players, and then does everything he can to make that character AWESOMES. Or when an equally sh*tty Game Master keeps tweaking the rules behind the scenes to keep the players from easily beating an enemy he thought would be kick-ass.

That's the Phantom.

The Phantom is not an inventive or clever design. It does not do inventive and clever things, because it does ALL THE THINGS. Without the Phantom, Cerberus forces would be useless. The reason for this is that the Phantom does everything every other Cerb unit does, but better. She's even better than a Turret, because she can do space-karate and backflip while she shoots you.

But what truly reveals how cheap and sh*tty the Phantom is, is the fact that there are painfully, absurdly easy ways to shut all of her advantages down. The problem is that these methods are not available to every character class, however. An Asari Adept can f*ck a Phantom up quick with Stasis. That's not the only method, just one example.

Unfortunately, because there are methods available to the player to shut the Phantom down, I no longer believe removing her invulnerability-fist would be a viable option. I'd rather see them remove those dipsh*t stabilization jets she has when she gets Lash'd. It looks dumb and is the type of idea designed by an intellect which probably thought a velociraptor riding a shark while firing an UZI and throwing dynamite somehow wasn't sufficiently awesome...so they added Wolverine claws on top of the Raptor's raptor-claws.

No, if anything should be changed about the Phantom's invulnerability, it's that she should not be allowed to spam it.

Her hand blaster could be toned down as well, I reckon.

But since there are a few ways to utterly crush her, I don't think the Phantom should be nerf'd too much.

Hilarious and well-thought, but that shield needs to be nerfed. Seriously. They should not be able to use it whilst running into close-combat, and they should not be able to use it whilst sniping and dodging. It can already do an inordinately large number of things - having that shield on a class on the swiss-army unit that renders the rest of Cerberus irrelevant is what utterly breaks the Phantom.

[DragoGoldenwing]

Strict31 wrote...

I think Phantoms are a cheap and crappy enemy. If you've ever played a table-top RPG, the Phantom is like when a sh*tty Game Master brings in his favorite character as an NPC or as an enemy for the players, and then does everything he can to make that character AWESOMES. Or when an equally sh*tty Game Master keeps tweaking the rules behind the scenes to keep the players from easily beating an enemy he thought would be kick-ass.

That is exactly how I'd describe it.  It's like a GM realized "Oh, this cave system full of kobolds and goblins isn't a challenge for these higher-level PCs, let's throw in magical clones of my half-dragon psionic orc, that sounds AWESOME."

Modifié par DragoGoldenwing, 25 juin 2012 - 11:30 .

[Blind2Society]

Strict31 wrote...
I'd rather see them remove those dipsh*t stabilization jets she has when she gets Lash'd.

I actually like this as it keeps her from flying way out of smash (BE) range

[Hexi-decimal]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

No. Otherwise they would be the worse boss ever.

Yes, because it adds nothing, they still die to gunfire already, and it does nothing but make them a completely cheese enemy on gold when you face conga-lines of 4 phantoms at a time that won't die because you can't do anything to them whatsoever with powers, ergo necessitating the likes of Infiltrators for damage spikes. And you guys wonder why that class is so insufferably prevalent.

This is an argument you could make for any big baddie in this game.  That is why they are so prevelant, not just because of Phantoms.

[molecularman]

Kenadian wrote...

The only thing I want to see changed is their overpowered lulzcannon.

This. I can't understand why it's so hard for people to use a power on them and shoot after they use their palm shield.

Just tweak the stupid OHK gun and make nemesis more powerful to compensate, that is the way to go

[sigma_draconis]

They're still vulnerable to weapon fire as you said, add with the fact that they're incredibly fragile in terms of health/barrier and you can pretty much drop them with a single Claymore shot. Personally I don't mind it as it brings a bit of variety when fighting Cerberus (something other than BE everything). That and with them being the only hard unit in Cerberus, removing this would make Cerberus easier as a whole unless their other units are buffed.

[elPrimoFilipino]

Instead of forming a shield when they extend their palms they should fire stasis at the closest player. Fixed, right?

[GGW KillerTiger]

Tokenusername wrote...

No. Otherwise they would be the worse boss ever.

Infinite flip, stealth that regenerates their shields and health at a fast rate .... 4 shot kill hand cannon .... super powerful melee and a sync kill .... super speed .......

Oh yes losing the I can block everything in the world shield will make them weak ... Right ...


Romove the damn thing!

[Strict31]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

I think Phantoms are a cheap and crappy enemy. If you've ever played a table-top RPG, the Phantom is like when a sh*tty Game Master brings in his favorite character as an NPC or as an enemy for the players, and then does everything he can to make that character AWESOMES. Or when an equally sh*tty Game Master keeps tweaking the rules behind the scenes to keep the players from easily beating an enemy he thought would be kick-ass.

That's the Phantom.

The Phantom is not an inventive or clever design. It does not do inventive and clever things, because it does ALL THE THINGS. Without the Phantom, Cerberus forces would be useless. The reason for this is that the Phantom does everything every other Cerb unit does, but better. She's even better than a Turret, because she can do space-karate and backflip while she shoots you.

But what truly reveals how cheap and sh*tty the Phantom is, is the fact that there are painfully, absurdly easy ways to shut all of her advantages down. The problem is that these methods are not available to every character class, however. An Asari Adept can f*ck a Phantom up quick with Stasis. That's not the only method, just one example.

Unfortunately, because there are methods available to the player to shut the Phantom down, I no longer believe removing her invulnerability-fist would be a viable option. I'd rather see them remove those dipsh*t stabilization jets she has when she gets Lash'd. It looks dumb and is the type of idea designed by an intellect which probably thought a velociraptor riding a shark while firing an UZI and throwing dynamite somehow wasn't sufficiently awesome...so they added Wolverine claws on top of the Raptor's raptor-claws.

No, if anything should be changed about the Phantom's invulnerability, it's that she should not be allowed to spam it.

Her hand blaster could be toned down as well, I reckon.

But since there are a few ways to utterly crush her, I don't think the Phantom should be nerf'd too much.

Hilarious and well-thought, but that shield needs to be nerfed. Seriously. They should not be able to use it whilst running into close-combat, and they should not be able to use it whilst sniping and dodging. It can already do an inordinately large number of things - having that shield on a class on the swiss-army unit that renders the rest of Cerberus irrelevant is what utterly breaks the Phantom.

If she's not allowed to spam its use, it would perforce cut down on all the things you mention.

I remember when I first unlocked the Cerberus Adept, someone posted a video of the character Lashing the ever-loving sh*t out of Phantoms left and right on Goddess, and my first thought was: "IMMA DO ALL'A DAT!!!"

But when I tried, the Phantom continuously resisted every single attempt to Lash her. And then, another Phantom did. And another. Each one doing it continuously. 

The problem isn't that she has a means of resisting most powers; it's that this method is imbalanced by her ability to do it without surcease, whenever the AI feels like players should be punished for saying the Red, Blue and Green Endings sucked.