173 réponses à ce sujet

[ArtGerhardt]

The most annoying part of the shield is that it makes them resistant to force-based attacks such as lash. Sure, this 90 pound cheerleader is some how able to withstand my 700 newton suction attack cause she gives me the "b*tch say wat" hand?

Other than that, run down her shields with guns, shotgun blast to the face for a stagger, then krogan heavy melee to finish her off is the best way to take her down without stasis.

[DragoGoldenwing]

Fox-snipe wrote...

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

The number of classes capable of using weapons to any effect against a shielded Phantom that's unloading mind-bullets into them with Widow damage at Predator fire rate =/= the number of classes capable of taking a weapon along.

I am complaining specifically about casters having problems dealing with them.  If you spec for power damage - which you have to in order to make a dent in most things in Gold - your weapon damage becomes...  Suboptimal.  Especially since casters are forced by the playerbase to carry light weapons (Usually SMGs with ammo effects,) or they risk getting kicked out of lobbies.
Unloading a Predator into a Phantom's head that is blowing yours off with her hand-cannon with any class best described as 'squishy' or 'egglike' is a recipe for disaster.  You'll die long before she suffers any marked damage.

Caster classes can quite easily take the more powerful Pistols like a Carnifex or Palladin without too much of a cooldown hit.  I've seen dozens of Adepts use one and deal with a Phantom that was "invincible".

You can say 'Well no really good player needs that crutch,' but you're talking about pubs.  If they were really good they wouldn't be using public matches and trusting to the game gods to deliver them unto a group that isn't bad.

I'm sorry, but what egotistical nonesense is this?  If a player is as good as you seem to be implying they should quite easily be able to deal with public matches.

(I realize this next statement is going to make me sound like a jerk but oh well....)
I'm very sorry you feel challenged and unable to deal with a single enemy from the easiest faction in the game.  I suggest either adjusting your tactics, sticking with a partner, or as I said running away and asking another player helps you out.  Or since you seem to think "good player[s]" should not be playing public matches, find a group of friends who will run to your aid whenever your character cries out "Phantom!"

I still have yet to see a single Phantom use her shield while moving/firing.  Sounds like lag or any of the other assorted issues where weapons & powers deal zero damage (most noticeable at the start of Waves to me).

You misunderstood me.  I said 'You can say 'Well no really good player needs that crutch', referring to Stasis/Falcon, to deal with Phantoms.  I then explained that we are talking about public lobbies. If the players were 'that good', they wouldn't be in public lobbies, they would be in private matches with the equally skilled co-players they have found.  The public Gold lobby is the hometown of the middle-of-the-road player who can't get invited to private matches but feels unchallenged on Silver now.

I'm going to ignore the rest of it because yeah.  It's not a 'single enemy'.  It's 'A single enemy possessing all the greatest qualities and then some of all the most troublesome units in the game who comes at you in rushes of up to four and turns every other unit into a joke in comparison.'

A poster here I don't remember the name of put it best during the Operation Silencer failure punishment.  "Oh, it's just Banshees you babies.  Imagine if it was Phantoms."

That's a good, solid representation of the majority of the playerbase's views on Phantoms.  They are the most dangerous thing in the game.  The thing the majority of us would want to face the least.  And they're the boss-level equivalent of trash mobs.

There is a serious disparity of challenge level to stated power level here, especially in relation to the challenge level of the rest of the faction.

[thegamefreek78648]

From what I understand, the Phantom's shield protects it against the vast majority of biotic powers, tech powers effect it normally.

As do bullets

Lots and lots of bullets

Or grenades, nice, 'splody grenades.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

From what I understand, the Phantom's shield protects it against the vast majority of biotic powers, tech powers effect it normally.

As do bullets

Lots and lots of bullets

Or grenades, nice, 'splody grenades.

Incorrect. Her hand-shield protects it from those, as well as most tech powers.

[Cyonan]

Count Silvershroud wrote...
How exactly do you "just shoot them" effectively when they have faster and stronger guns than you, and dodge most of your shots in the 2 seconds it takes them to gun down a caster class? 

I find it rather easy to shoot them in the head a few times, or if you have a rapid fire gun just unload on them. If you absolutely need to, duck behind cover for a second. A Phantom will fire 2 -5 shots in a burst, and then they wont burst again for about 2 seconds.

That should be enough time to pop their shields, which triggers a flip and cloak, which should be enough to finish them off. If they get into cover, reposition so you can pop their head while they're just standing there from a distance.

I was downing Phantoms left and right on my Justicar last night without Stasis or any sort of CC. The only ones that got me were when I wasn't watching my flank and they got me from behind, which is entirely my fault.

[Wakko.013]

Phantoms should be hackable since they are AI robots.

[Scudman_Alpha]

 *phantons comes at me with their palm-shield up*

*she blocks my smash and lash*

Me: "..."

*shoots phanton in the face with a claymore*

*walks out like he doesn't care with no barriers and one bar of health left because of their palm-gun*

*dies to camper centurion*

Me: FUUUUUU-


i dare you to say that this never happened to you >:|


now the shield is pretty bad when they use it with conjunction to their palm gun of dooooooom making them not only impossible to stagger but also killing you in 3 shots or less

and how come phantons never charge at me to slice me like a potato? seriously for me they just stand there...and fire at me with incredible accuracy and keeping my health and my shields low...until i decide to blow their faces off...

[himegoto]

Raziel1030 wrote...

Make them have to be stationary while they do it. Done.

This.

And it's not about nerfing them but Phantoms just doesnt make sense at the moment they are a ninja class but shoots some sort of omega cannon from her palms rapid fire too. Um why are we carrying guns again?

Same goes with the absolute palm shield. Should be like a focused zen skill when activated so stationary not chasing us at full speed with the shield up.

[Sousabird]

A good class for killing phantoms, Geth Infiltraitor. Use Tac cloak to get point blank with your claymore, shoot it point blank in daface if it's on gold (super shield gate) put on hunter vision so you can see it when it cloaks

[Seer235]

Really, I'd just like it if the phantom didn't have immunity to all powers FROM BEHIND HER and an immunity to most weapons.

[Hyunsai]

I don't know what game you are playing, but phantoms can't move while using the invulnerability shield. I ALWAYS hit them with instant power like overload when they are moving even with their hand up. ALWAYS.

And what is this new thing about immunity to some weapons ?

Next thing is they are invisible when attacking you with their cannon, huh ?

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 03:04 .

[killacwalka3]

I have been able to deal with phantoms pretty well with all classes besides the male Quarians and I don't know about thethe HI and fQE because I don't use them much.

Any hitscan power works every time, including reave, overload, sabotage and energy drain.
Proximity mine, biotic charge, nova, ballistic blades, tech armor detonation and heavy melee all work and also cause the black hole to drop for a little bit during the stagger or knockdown.
I believe shockwave works but will only cause a minor stagger with barrier still up.
Singularity works once the barrier is gone so drop one then take out her barrier.

Just unlocked ex-Cerberus so haven't had a chance to test with their powers. Never use lift, so don't know, never use any charcters with cryo blast so don't know.

Modifié par killacwalka3, 26 juin 2012 - 03:17 .

[DragoGoldenwing]

Hyunsai wrote...

I don't know what game you are playing, but phantoms can't move while using the invulnerability shield. I ALWAYS hit them with instant power like overload when they are moving even with their hand up. ALWAYS.

And what is this new thing about immunity to some weapons ?

Next thing is they are invisible when attacking you with their cannon, huh ?

I've been told it isn't normal behavior now, but about half the time I watch a phantom throw her shield up, fire off a burst of mind bullets, then scuttle forward with her shield still up before it fades to make it easier to get within melee distance.

[Hyunsai]

I never encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

I see a lot of exageration and false informations in this thread.  Phantoms obviously have a hidden power to wreck people's mind on what they can do...

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 03:19 .

[Strict31]

Atheosis wrote...

People whining about the only remotely challenging enemy in the easiest faction tickle me.

I...wait...I just had this awesome idea. So, since the entire rest of Cerberus sucks, what if Cerberus was all Phantoms, all the time? They are the only challenging enemy in Cerberus, so why not make them all the enemies?

Instead of heavies like Atlases showing up, it would be one Phantom standing on another Phantom's shoulders.

Problem: solved. No need to thank me BSN.

[Strict31]

Hyunsai wrote...

I never encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

[Asebstos]

And now some lessons on how to come across like an elitst:

DragoGoldenwing wrote... If the players were 'that good', they wouldn't be in public lobbies, they would be in private matches with the equally skilled co-players they have found.  The public Gold lobby is the hometown of the middle-of-the-road player who can't get invited to private matches but feels unchallenged on Silver now.

[Hyunsai]

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

I never
encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power
stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

Ok, so they're not moving, and they can't go back to hand cannon just after immune stance. So I don't understand why I see people saying they shouldn't be able to move when immune to power when it's already the case.

That's why a good non stasis tactic is to spam power at them to make them do the stance. There is a big window to shoot them there. You just have to be focused. There are very few classes that are helpless against them.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 03:30 .

[DragoGoldenwing]

And now some lessons on how to come across as petulant:

Asebstos wrote...

And now some lessons on how to come across like an elitst:

DragoGoldenwing wrote... If the players were 'that good', they wouldn't be in public lobbies, they would be in private matches with the equally skilled co-players they have found.  The public Gold lobby is the hometown of the middle-of-the-road player who can't get invited to private matches but feels unchallenged on Silver now.

Seriously, public matches are always where the average players live.  This is true in any shooter.  I am not bashing public players, I are one.  But in any multiplayer shooter with public lobbies/matches/servers, when someone starts to show a level of skill they usually start getting pulled away into private matches or to private servers.  The number of highly skilled players that sticks around with the multitude of average-or-lower players like me in public matches is always depressingly low because they'd rather be with equally skilled peers than being dragged down into a loss by the likes of pub-match fodder like me.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Hyunsai wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

I never
encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power
stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

Ok, so they're not moving, and they can't go back to hand cannon just after immune stance. So I don't understand why I see people saying they shouldn't be able to move when immune to power when it's already the case.

That's why a good non stasis tactic is to spam power at them to make them do the stance. There is a big window to shoot them there. You just have to be focused. There are very few classes that are helpless against them.

I've seen them charge through a hail of powers from a group. Assuming they don't use their dodges, they can, indeed, ignore it whilst moving (or time their advance perfectly to negate grenade powers/shockwaves/slams/lashes).

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Seriously, public matches are always where the average players live.  This is true in any shooter.  I am not bashing public players, I are one.  But in any multiplayer shooter with public lobbies/matches/servers, when someone starts to show a level of skill they usually start getting pulled away into private matches or to private servers.  The number of highly skilled players that sticks around with the multitude of average-or-lower players like me in public matches is always depressingly low because they'd rather be with equally skilled peers than being dragged down into a loss by the likes of pub-match fodder like me.

Long live Pubs. Some of the best players I've ever seen came from them.

[DragoGoldenwing]

And some of the best TF2 players I've ever seen were on official Valve servers. There ARE highly skilled players that call pubs home. That doesn't change the fact that I'd see more of their caliber if I went and hung out on private servers than I will doing pubs.

[Hyunsai]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

I never
encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power
stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

Ok, so they're not moving, and they can't go back to hand cannon just after immune stance. So I don't understand why I see people saying they shouldn't be able to move when immune to power when it's already the case.

That's why a good non stasis tactic is to spam power at them to make them do the stance. There is a big window to shoot them there. You just have to be focused. There are very few classes that are helpless against them.

I've seen them charge through a hail of powers from a group. Assuming they don't use their dodges, they can, indeed, ignore it whilst moving (or time their advance perfectly to negate grenade powers/shockwaves/slams/lashes).

Well, that would be more a problem related to the extremely bugged and lagged state of the game... ^^

[Strict31]

Hyunsai wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

I never
encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power
stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

Ok, so they're not moving, and they can't go back to hand cannon just after immune stance. There is a big window to shoot them there.

So I don't understand why I see people saying they shouldn't be able to move when immune to power when it's already the case.

"Nearly instantaneous" does not typically consititute "a big window of time"...

The only time a Phantom cannot transition instantly back and forth from hand cannon to invulnerability is when she is in cover.

And while I admittedly cannot provide an exact measurement of time for either "nearly instantateous" or "instantly", both terms are undoubtedly quicker than the time it takes an Adept (for example) to shoot her with pinpoint accuracy immediately after a failed Warp attempt.

This generally means that after she uses invulnerability to block an Adept's power, she can take a shot faster than the Adept can take a shot after he fires off a power. And since Adepts tend to be...very squishy...and the hand cannon tends to be...very deadly...the Adept gets his shields stripped and his health chewed away in that "big window" you mention.

This is probably one major source for the OP's concerns.

But as I said on the front page, I'm not an advocate of removing her invulnerability power. I'd rather they balance it with a cooldown, like enemy dodges, or find a way to keep her from doing it indefinitely.

Modifié par Strict31, 26 juin 2012 - 03:44 .