173 réponses à ce sujet

[eye basher]

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

There's a lot of 'Well I and my pro co-players can handle Phantoms just fine by adhering to a single strategy for dealing with them that not every player has access to, so therefore Phantoms do not need to be looked at.'

This is called a fallacy of composition.

Stop it.

Just because you and your group can handle Phantoms by adhering to a single strategy for killing them does not mean the entirety of the playerbase possesses the same ability.

The fact is that a single enemy in a single faction is dictating pre-game weapon and power choice for the majority of the playerbase, because if you do not have a specialized set of tools for dealing with them, then the average pub will lose to them.

That is not a desirable trait in a single enemy regardless of an individual or small subset's ability to cope with it.

I didn't know shooting them until they die is a high level tactic you want it even easier use concossive shot on them then when they use the shield pop there head off works evry time.

[Nicegil2012]

I like all enemies... ALL enemies. I think the phantom is fine just the way she is. Why change her? I say if you don't like dealing with phantoms... don't fight cerberus? It's satisfying seeing a phantom's body just flop to the floor as she dies

[Hyunsai]

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

I never
encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power
stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

Ok, so they're not moving, and they can't go back to hand cannon just after immune stance. There is a big window to shoot them there.

So I don't understand why I see people saying they shouldn't be able to move when immune to power when it's already the case.

"Nearly instantaneous" does not typically consititute "a big window of time"...

The only time a Phantom cannot transition instantly back and forth from hand cannon to invulnerability is when she is in cover.

And while I admittedly cannot provide an exact measurement of time for either "nearly instantateous" or "instantly", both terms are undoubtedly quicker than the time it takes an Adept (for example) to shoot her with pinpoint accuracy immediately after a failed Warp attempt.

This generally means that after she uses invulnerability to block an Adept's power, she can take a shot faster than the Adept can take a shot after he fires off a power. And since Adepts tend to be...very squishy...and the hand cannon tends to be...very deadly...the Adept gets his shields stripped and his health chewed away in that "big window" you mention.

This is probably one major source for the OP's concerns.

But as I said on the front page, I'm not an advocate of removing her invulnerability power. I'd rather they balance it with a cooldown, like enemy dodges, or find a way to keep her from doing it indefinitely.

She can transition from hand cannon to invulnerability instantaneously, but she CAN'T go back immediatly to hand cannon  just after that. Your window is there, I do it all the time with throw, warp, pull, concussive shot, carnage, incinerate.... Like I said you just have to be focused and waiting for that moment.

There are very few classes that are helpless against them. But that's why this is a coop game, you have sometimes to rely on the team. Hell, when I play human vanguard against the reaper, I let the team deal with the Banshees... I can repay the favor by completely destroying the ravagers for them... ^^

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 04:11 .

[Hackulator]

Phantoms are one of the hardest units on the game to deal with, but they are not "too" hard, so they don't need to be nerfed.

[Dusen]

I wouldn't mind the hand cannon being nerfed (I just hate getting two-hit sniped by that stupid thing from across the map when my sniper rifle does a fraction of its damage). Other than that though, they should stay the same, they are about the only challenging, unique enemy in the game that aren't just full of hit points.

[Strict31]

Hyunsai wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

Strict31 wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

I never
encountered phantoms that fired their cannon while in immune to power
stance. When they do that they can't move at all.

The transition to hand cannon from invulnerability-fist (and back again) is nearly instantaneous.

Ok, so they're not moving, and they can't go back to hand cannon just after immune stance. There is a big window to shoot them there.

So I don't understand why I see people saying they shouldn't be able to move when immune to power when it's already the case.

"Nearly instantaneous" does not typically consititute "a big window of time"...

The only time a Phantom cannot transition instantly back and forth from hand cannon to invulnerability is when she is in cover.

And while I admittedly cannot provide an exact measurement of time for either "nearly instantateous" or "instantly", both terms are undoubtedly quicker than the time it takes an Adept (for example) to shoot her with pinpoint accuracy immediately after a failed Warp attempt.

This generally means that after she uses invulnerability to block an Adept's power, she can take a shot faster than the Adept can take a shot after he fires off a power. And since Adepts tend to be...very squishy...and the hand cannon tends to be...very deadly...the Adept gets his shields stripped and his health chewed away in that "big window" you mention.

This is probably one major source for the OP's concerns.

But as I said on the front page, I'm not an advocate of removing her invulnerability power. I'd rather they balance it with a cooldown, like enemy dodges, or find a way to keep her from doing it indefinitely.

She can transition from hand cannon to invulnerability instantaneously, but she CAN'T go back immediatly to hand cannon  just after that. Your window is there, I do it all the time with throw, warp, pull, concussive shot, carnage, incinerate.... Like I said you just have to be focused and waiting for that moment.

There are very few classes that are helpless against them. But that's why this is a coop game, you have sometimes to rely on the team. Hell, when I play human vanguard against the reaper, I let the team deal with the Banshees... I can repay the favor by completely destroying the ravagers for them... ^^

Okay man.

[PD ORTA]

No. Leave Phantom's as they are, they'd be too easy without the invulnerability shield.

[Hypertion]

they cant shoot or move while shielding.

i say let them keep it as it is a libaility and can be exploited to easly kill them.

[ajburges]

I just want some consistent predictable shield usage not the random I win and your grenades are useless button.

[Sirous]

No they should leave the Phantoms alone. Anyway I consider the hand cannon similar to the other biotic/tech powers reave/overload/energy drain that are almost instantaneous, It sucks but there are ways to deal with them, they are the only boss that can be put into stasis and they must pause when dealing with powers being thrown at them. Leaving them open to getting whittled down with gun fire.

Although I did see one get lashed over the edge of the landing platform on Glacier and fly back with her rocket boots only to die a second later.

[Uchimura]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...
and the part which absolutely necessitates the use of Stasis against them because nothing else works:

Instant attacks work, like Overload and Ballistic Blades.

[anolis85]

No. Nerf their palm javelin. Seriously. That gun is too powerful.

[Schneidend]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

Infinite flip, stealth that regenerates their shields and health at a fast rate .... 4 shot kill hand cannon .... super powerful melee and a sync kill .... super speed .......

Oh yes losing the I can block everything in the world shield will make them weak ... Right ...


Romove the damn thing!

Those batarians don't seem quite so lame and weak when they counter Phantoms with startling ease.

[SkreeMalicious]

Strict31 wrote...

Kenadian wrote...

The only thing I want to see changed is their overpowered lulzcannon.

It's like a pea-shooter that fires depleted uranium spitballs covered in poison and propelled by quiet despair.

lol yes

phantoms hand cannons are too powerful, they do Nemesis damage and fire in volleys.. 3 shots and you are toast.
Takes 2 to realise theres one around lol

[Xerorei]

Sirous wrote...

No they should leave the Phantoms alone. Anyway I consider the hand cannon similar to the other biotic/tech powers reave/overload/energy drain that are almost instantaneous, It sucks but there are ways to deal with them, they are the only boss that can be put into stasis and they must pause when dealing with powers being thrown at them. Leaving them open to getting whittled down with gun fire.

Although I did see one get lashed over the edge of the landing platform on Glacier and fly back with her rocket boots only to die a second later.

Explain then how we are not on equal footing with what we have, unfortunately you can't because BW made overpowered 'boss' type enemies and keep nerfing OUR crap, honestly stacking the deck for "difficulty" doesn't make it harder, it just means they haven't got any good ideas on how to raise difficulty beyond standard "Load boss with superpowers and cheap cheats".

Phantoms aren't even balanced in their own faction, they do more damage than an Atlas, have regenerative cloak, amazing agility, fire faster than a Nemesis (who shouldn't be doing that much damage anyway).

Maybe BW needs to take a look at their uber cheap enemies before nerfing the crap out of weaponry in the name of "Balance", it's not a balance when one side of the scale is tipped so heavily in one direction.

Do I even have to mention how they "got rid of the bug" with Prime headshots (which now are annoyingly long to kill), How cheap ravagers are with exploding piercing shots and seeker swarms, or Banshees and teleporting through walls and  fifteen foot magnetic pull kills?

[someN7orother]

Fox-snipe wrote...
I do not recall ever seeing a Phantom use her shield while moving.  The past weekend I was playing a Batarian for the Savage challenge and anytime the Phantom was on the move I was successfully able to hit her with my Ballistic Blades to weaken and/or stagger her.

Pay more attention... or read the OP. Phantoms can do their "talk to the hand" trick while advancing on you and firing off their palm gun. When in gold waves 9-11 you have bunches of 4 rushing you  while two Atlases provide fire support and engineers lay down turrets down your retreat path, things tend to go south fast, unless you have a quick rocket finger.

As for the OP, I'm sure it's nothing the KRO TEAM can't handle. I don't have a problem with the shield itself, but I really hate that they can fire while their hand shield is up.

Tone down their palm blaster, give the poor Nemesis a much-needed boost, and make Cerberus an actual threat outside of space ninja swarms.

[Sirous]

Xerorei wrote...

Sirous wrote...

No they should leave the Phantoms alone. Anyway I consider the hand cannon similar to the other biotic/tech powers reave/overload/energy drain that are almost instantaneous, It sucks but there are ways to deal with them, they are the only boss that can be put into stasis and they must pause when dealing with powers being thrown at them. Leaving them open to getting whittled down with gun fire.

Although I did see one get lashed over the edge of the landing platform on Glacier and fly back with her rocket boots only to die a second later.

Explain then how we are not on equal footing with what we have, unfortunately you can't because BW made overpowered 'boss' type enemies and keep nerfing OUR crap, honestly stacking the deck for "difficulty" doesn't make it harder, it just means they haven't got any good ideas on how to raise difficulty beyond standard "Load boss with superpowers and cheap cheats".

Phantoms aren't even balanced in their own faction, they do more damage than an Atlas, have regenerative cloak, amazing agility, fire faster than a Nemesis (who shouldn't be doing that much damage anyway).

Maybe BW needs to take a look at their uber cheap enemies before nerfing the crap out of weaponry in the name of "Balance", it's not a balance when one side of the scale is tipped so heavily in one direction.

Do I even have to mention how they "got rid of the bug" with Prime headshots (which now are annoyingly long to kill), How cheap ravagers are with exploding piercing shots and seeker swarms, or Banshees and teleporting through walls and  fifteen foot magnetic pull kills?

Phantoms are what make the Cerberus interesting, except for turrets they are probably the worst thing about the Cerberus. And yes Bioware made what a lot of the enemies do seem cheap, but... We have an amazing amount of abilities that counteract anything that Bioware throws at you, the problem is it requires teamwork and coordination to pull off.  Everyone seems to want enemies that can be destroyed single handedly with whatever class they are using. Sorry but some enemies should require a mix of classes or teammates to be killed, right now a Phantom can be killed by a SINGLE asari adept with Stasis. so to me they are nothing if not an annoyance. I say if you get rid of the invulnerability stance then don't allow them to be put into stasis like the other mid level bosses. 

[kevchy]

If its fixed so that she takes some damage from powers when she uses the palm shields, I'm good. Now, it is just stupid.

[Hackulator]

Phantoms are fine, nerf turrets dammit.

[Hyunsai]

someN7orother wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...
I do not recall ever seeing a Phantom use her shield while moving.  The past weekend I was playing a Batarian for the Savage challenge and anytime the Phantom was on the move I was successfully able to hit her with my Ballistic Blades to weaken and/or stagger her.

Pay more attention... or read the OP. Phantoms can do their "talk to the hand" trick while advancing on you and firing off their palm gun.

I'll have to ask a video on this one.

I find it extremely strange that they do this "feature" to some players, and NEVER to the others.

Every time a phantom advanced on me shooting, she was vulnerable to powers, UNLESS she stopped doing the immune stance.

I call exageration and misperception until proven otherwise.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 10:48 .

[tonnactus]

jfruelas521 wrote...

The problem is without phantoms, Cerberus becomes the easiest enemy type by far. Let's go down the list.

You forgot turrets...

[Zancloufer]

Why not, you know, nerf Phantoms (the Hand cannon is probably the easiest to nerf and really makes the most sense) and idk, buff Nemesis and Guardians? If the best argument for not nerfing a super unit that replaces half the faction is the faction would be too easy without it, something is wrong, seriously wrong.

[tMc Tallgeese]

Beating a phalanx of Phantoms isn't the hard part. Not messing your shorts when they flank you is.

Phantoms can be dropped pretty quickly and a prepared team can easily dispatch a group of 4+ if they coordinate fire, melee and power usage. I've been in games where Phantoms never get close because the team worked well together. It all comes down to the way the team is made up and how they position themselves on the map.

[Draining Dragon]

The palm-shields are not the biggest problem here. It's the combination of the mobility and instakills that is a problem. Instakills are supposed to punish players for getting close to elite enemies, but then we have an enemy who is super fast and TRIES to close the distance.