173 réponses à ce sujet

[Lexa_D]

Youtube is spammed with how-to-kill-anything-with-anything vids, we just got below 10min gold run, and yet there are people who demand nerfing the enemies. Javik would've known what to say.

[NuclearTech76]

Phantoms are the only threat that Cerberus has other than walking into a turret which isn't that hard to avoid most of the time. The instakills honestly aren't nearly as awful as the banshee horse crap.

[Tankcommander]

The hand cannon needs a nerf, either accuracy or damage or both. It completely negates the point of having Nemeses.

I don't mind the invulnerability, since she can only protect against powers, but what I do think is dumb is that when she flips she gets a massive DR, something like 70%. A sniper rifle headshot won't even do more than 350 damage. It makes no sense and is very cheap, especially since she can still shoot you while flipping.

[Mr. Heavy]

I don't think you can nerf phantoms without buffing other Cerb guys. Cerb is already the easiest faction. So maybe double Atlas' ROF and buff their movement speed. No idea if that would work, but you get the idea.

[Lexa_D]

Phantom is the doorkeeper of Gold scaring off scrubs.

[PaperAlien]

Lexa_D wrote...

Youtube is spammed with how-to-kill-anything-with-anything vids, we just got below 10min gold run, and yet there are people who demand nerfing the enemies. Javik would've known what to say.

And that's something most casual gamers can reliably accomplish.

[Lexa_D]

PaperAlien wrote...

Lexa_D wrote...

Youtube is spammed with how-to-kill-anything-with-anything vids, we just got below 10min gold run, and yet there are people who demand nerfing the enemies. Javik would've known what to say.

And that's something most casual gamers can reliably accomplish.

Most casual players should play Gold?

[Kamfrenchie]

The palm canon is to good honestly.

Fires too fast, does too much damage. By the time you heardd the first shot you receive a second one, dropping your shields. Then either you hide behind cover and they can close in, or you try to move and they most likely drop you with the rest of the burst.
Well, 1 of them can be dealt with without too much problem.

But 2+ can become tricky, simply because of the sheer dps they cause.

One character stopping cerberus from being a joke is bad design.
It's not a good challenge/balance to have an army of uber weak mooks, and a few insanely buffed elite people.

That just makes the game alternate between easy and cheap as hell.
Like you know, the knockback on some old 2D platform game whenever you get hit, that throws you into a hole.

They shouldn't do everything better than all othr cerberus units

[xXdmndmnXx]

Actually no. Why? You may ask.

I say this because Phantoms are what makes Cerberus atleast a decent enemy type, even on Gold, while Reapers and Geth clearly outshine them in all aspects. <_<

So asking for nerfing of the one enemy that makes fighting Cerb interesting is not cool, bro.

[Kel Riever]

Why is it everyone is always asking for Phantom nerfs?  I mean, if anything, it is other Cerberus that need improvement, like the Nemesis.  Or is some of this going on?


:

[Kamfrenchie]

xXdmndmnXx wrote...

Actually no. Why? You may ask.

I say this because Phantoms are what makes Cerberus atleast a decent enemy type, even on Gold, while Reapers and Geth clearly outshine them in all aspects. <_<

So asking for nerfing of the one enemy that makes fighting Cerb interesting is not cool, bro.

Nerf fantom and buff other cerbeus units, fine by me. That'll be better than army of useless mooks + ridiculous lighting bruiser ninja.

Fantom shouln't be the only real super threat  when fighting cerberus, they should be important, but not do it all.

Balance it by making the other cerberus units better, sure.

[Atheosis]

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

People whining about the only remotely challenging enemy in the easiest faction tickle me.

People whining about people whining about the most challenging boss unit in the game to deal with who is in such a state specifically because the devs can't be arsed to address balance issues with the entire faction and instead elected to give them Superman with a sword to 'balance' their overall combat ability  tickle me.

There's a phrase.  You can't stiffen a bucket of spit with a handful of buckshot.  But that's just what Bioware tried to do with the Phantom - they threw a few stiff handfuls of buckshot into the bucket of spit that is every other Cerb unit and called that enough.

It's not.  Nerf the Phantom, buff the other units and present a more even challenge instead of throwing four superstealth cockroach-quick hard-to-pin-down melee instant-killers that also just happen to have a brain-Eagle that shoots Widow rounds three or four times a wave and calling that 'balanced'.

Because no matter how much people like you mock everyone else for not being leet enough to hack it against Phantoms like you and your bros can, the above situation will never be called 'balanced'.

I don't disagree that some internal balance could really help Cerberus, but really, Phantoms are easy to kill unless they come in bunches.  Sorry, but I'm thinking maybe you should start playing an easier difficulty if they feel like "Superman with a sword" to you.

Oh look, the favored refuge of the elitist.  "You have a problem with the game?  Go back to a lower difficulty."
I don't play Gold.  Silver is about right for me - just enough challenge without the facerolling antics of Gold.  I do however watch my nephews play Gold and talk with them a lot about what they're doing and why as they play.  And every single time I have seen them wipe on Cerberus it was because of a Phantom humiliation conga.  I have talked in-depth with them about why.  And everything I have seen and heard tells me the same thing: The Phantoms are Superman with a sword, and the rest of Cerberus is nameless mooks that faint if you breathe on them hard, only dangerous when the Phantoms catch you out of cover and shield-strip you with mind bullets for the Centurions to finish off.

Phantoms are easily to kill unless they come in bunches.  Except they come in bunches on Gold.  They're easy to kill if you have Stasis on the team.  Not every team has it and not every team should be forced to carry it 'just in case'.  They're easy to kill if you have a Falcon around.  Not every team has it and not every team should be forced to carry it 'just in case'.  The list of ways to make Phantoms 'easy to kill' is small - but for the average pub if you don't have those methods incorporated, you end up pushing up daisies because Phantoms are overpowered.

Sorry, but all you are arguing is that you personally find them too tough.  I disagree.  They're the only thing that makes fighting Cerberus interesting.

[xtorma]

They could make atlas bad arse by replacing thier slow firing hand cannon with an auto turret. If they did this, I would sign on to phantom adjusting.

They could make nemesis more dangerous by changing thier ai to do more than just try and run away, and give them a sword.

Give guardians the marksman ability, and a carnifex.

give engineers the proxy mine ability.

Change centurion health to armor

[Atheosis]

Mr. Heavy wrote...

I don't think you can nerf phantoms without buffing other Cerb guys. Cerb is already the easiest faction. So maybe double Atlas' ROF and buff their movement speed. No idea if that would work, but you get the idea.

You could buff other things to compensate for a Phantom nerf, but I think it'd be hard to truly compensate by just increasing damage and hit points of other Cerberus units.  And if you ask me they would just start feeling like Geth if you did that.

[Hyunsai]

LOL !!! Now we hear that phantoms can shoot you when they are flipping...

I'm sure soon enough fighting phantoms will give AIDS.

-------------------------------------

On the serious side, remove Banshees from Reapers, Hunters from Geths and they are a biggest joke than Cerberus without Phantoms, trust me. At least we still have to worry about those phocking engineer's turrets.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 03:23 .

[SWFanatic]

They should be challenging. I like them how they are.
When you see the palm shield, start shooting.

My main problem with the insta-deaths are due to lag, not the mechanic itself.
I start running away and then do the electric-slide into the phantom's blade or the banshee.
But with less lag I don't have a problem with it.

[lpconfig]

Cyonan wrote...

If they go into their ability immunity shield, you can just shoot them.

Once you drop their shields, they enter defensive mode and flip, cloak, then run away unless you have them cornered.

This.

It so easy to shoot a projectile power at them, then head shot them a few times. They stand there frozen in place doing the space magic glove thing for 3 seconds or so.

Modifié par newman982, 26 juin 2012 - 03:31 .

[Variasaber]

You have guns, pal. Use them.
Also, try manipulating the Phantom's behavior; it can't do anything while it has its power shield-palm up. Move around a bit, try to get it to react, and the instant it moves use your powers because it will have dropped its power shield. Grenades are particularly effective in this moment.

And for the love of god, keep your distance and use cover. These enemies aren't rocket science.

Modifié par Variasaber, 26 juin 2012 - 03:39 .

[DragoGoldenwing]

Atheosis wrote...

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

People whining about the only remotely challenging enemy in the easiest faction tickle me.

People whining about people whining about the most challenging boss unit in the game to deal with who is in such a state specifically because the devs can't be arsed to address balance issues with the entire faction and instead elected to give them Superman with a sword to 'balance' their overall combat ability  tickle me.

There's a phrase.  You can't stiffen a bucket of spit with a handful of buckshot.  But that's just what Bioware tried to do with the Phantom - they threw a few stiff handfuls of buckshot into the bucket of spit that is every other Cerb unit and called that enough.

It's not.  Nerf the Phantom, buff the other units and present a more even challenge instead of throwing four superstealth cockroach-quick hard-to-pin-down melee instant-killers that also just happen to have a brain-Eagle that shoots Widow rounds three or four times a wave and calling that 'balanced'.

Because no matter how much people like you mock everyone else for not being leet enough to hack it against Phantoms like you and your bros can, the above situation will never be called 'balanced'.

I don't disagree that some internal balance could really help Cerberus, but really, Phantoms are easy to kill unless they come in bunches.  Sorry, but I'm thinking maybe you should start playing an easier difficulty if they feel like "Superman with a sword" to you.

Oh look, the favored refuge of the elitist.  "You have a problem with the game?  Go back to a lower difficulty."
I don't play Gold.  Silver is about right for me - just enough challenge without the facerolling antics of Gold.  I do however watch my nephews play Gold and talk with them a lot about what they're doing and why as they play.  And every single time I have seen them wipe on Cerberus it was because of a Phantom humiliation conga.  I have talked in-depth with them about why.  And everything I have seen and heard tells me the same thing: The Phantoms are Superman with a sword, and the rest of Cerberus is nameless mooks that faint if you breathe on them hard, only dangerous when the Phantoms catch you out of cover and shield-strip you with mind bullets for the Centurions to finish off.

Phantoms are easily to kill unless they come in bunches.  Except they come in bunches on Gold.  They're easy to kill if you have Stasis on the team.  Not every team has it and not every team should be forced to carry it 'just in case'.  They're easy to kill if you have a Falcon around.  Not every team has it and not every team should be forced to carry it 'just in case'.  The list of ways to make Phantoms 'easy to kill' is small - but for the average pub if you don't have those methods incorporated, you end up pushing up daisies because Phantoms are overpowered.

Sorry, but all you are arguing is that you personally find them too tough.  I disagree.  They're the only thing that makes fighting Cerberus interesting.

Which is exactly the issue.  You find them 'interesting' because Cerberus as a faction is an utter joke without them.  We find them infuriating because they make up for Cerberus' inadequacies as an enemy faction by being better at the jobs of every other specialized unit in the game than the specialized units themselves are, with the possible exception of Geth Rocket Troopers - and only then because they're buggy and double-and-even-triple firing rockets.
They have Stealth.  The Geth Hunter uses it less effectively because Geth AI means they just come straight at you in a zerg rush, and because the large vertical frame of the Hunter makes them easily spotted as opposed to the lowslung ninja-scuttle of the Phantom.
They have a palm-cannon that has sniper rifle range, is as accurate as the Nemesis, as damaging as their charged shots so you don't get any warning it's happening, and rapid-fire so gate mechanics mean nothing.
They have movement speed that nearly approaches Husk levels, made all the worse by the fact that they have superspeed ninja-reflexes and can dodge slow weapon fire without losing a step in advancing.
They have melee damage like a Brute in a much more agile, harder to hit package.
They have instant-kills better than a Banshee because at least Banshees telegraph their presence - unless they're glitching out and teleporting through walls/right up on top of you and immediately within a single frame going into sync kill animation.
They have a Banshee-style invulnerability shield that blocks almost every ability in the game, that they can activate at will, and cycle back and forth between sniper-hand and troll-hand with such a rapidity that they may as well be able to fire while using it, and have displayed the ability to move while keeping it active.
They can advance in a charge more effectively than Guardians in the face of overwhelming firepower.
They also have what is considered by most serious players to be the only competent AI in the game when it comes to sneaking, flanking, use of cover, and avoiding combat when wounded.

The Phantom does the job of every other unit in multiplayer better than the dedicated units do.  The only thing they can't do is tank a bunch of damage, but that doesn't matter because they have ways to avoid it - half-intelligent AI, invulnerability to the main offensive option for a LOT of classes and stealthy sneaky ninjaness.

You can say 'I don't see the problem here and I don't think anyone who should be playing over Bronze should either.' all you want but that doesn't change the reality that there is a serious problem with game balance when it comes to Phantoms, and fixing it entirely is not as simple as nerfing their gun or taking their shield away.  Their entire faction needs an overhaul from the ground up, something we know we won't be getting because they aren't even allowed to seriously fix minor day-1-beta bugs.  Perhaps we'll see that change now that so much of their DLC development power can be taken away from the extended cut, but I'm not holding my breath, the bottom-liners at EA will likely shove them on to the next project.

[Hyunsai]

Reapers are a joke without Banshees, and Geths a similar joke without Hunters.

We should nerf them too and overhaul those factions.

[Ziegrif]

I'd rather change their ''talk to the hand'' cannon... just tweak it a bit that it doesn't murder me from across the damn continent...

[DragoGoldenwing]

Hyunsai wrote...

Reapers are a joke without Banshees, and Geths a similar joke without Hunters.

We should nerf them too and overhaul those factions.

Stupid way to mock the argument, as Banshees and Geth do not possess nearly the sweeping array of abilities Phantoms do and aren't considered to be nearly as cheese-filled as Phantoms.  Banshees are the next-worst after Phantoms but they don't even come close to being as outright immediately dangerous across all ranges as Phantoms do.

[lpconfig]

It sounds like people want it to be easier. Now if only there was a way to make this game easier than gold difficulty .....

[Hyunsai]

DragoGoldenwing wrote...

Hyunsai wrote...

Reapers are a joke without Banshees, and Geths a similar joke without Hunters.

We should nerf them too and overhaul those factions.

Stupid way to mock the argument, as Banshees and Geth do not possess nearly the sweeping array of abilities Phantoms do and aren't considered to be nearly as cheese-filled as Phantoms.  Banshees are the next-worst after Phantoms but they don't even come close to being as outright immediately dangerous across all ranges as Phantoms do.

Did you notice the wave Phantoms appear ? In silver it's Wave 7. Atlases, Brutes, Banshees, Geth Primes appear much sooner. This means Phantom is supposed to be the BIGGEST THREAT of the damn game. In fact I wish they had armor so they wouldn't be anhihilated by Stasis.

So DEAL WITH IT.

Modifié par Hyunsai, 26 juin 2012 - 04:43 .