Can someone explane to me the lore behind the spirit warrior? Im just not sure what one is. Why can a spirit warrior use magic like powers without mana and how does he/she gain these ablities?
Spirit Warrior Lore?
Débuté par
Caiden012
, juin 26 2012 03:34
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 03:43
Fallstar
-
- Members
- 1 519 messages
We don't receive that much information about Spirit Warriors, all I really know is that it involves spirits from the fade enhancing your abilites, but how a warrior - a non mage - contacts these spirits is beyond me.
#3
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 03:50
Shadow of Light Dragon
-
- Members
- 5 179 messages
Spirit warriors are supposed to be mundanes who have the ability to commune with Fade spirits and derive powers from them, without blood magic being involved (ie. Reavers).
However, it's not explained how this is possible. Outside of the Fade, mundanes are supposed to be invisible to spirits unless certain measures are taken. Such measures include the Veil being thin and blood magic, and possibly lyrium. For a Spirit Warrior to always have access to lyium or a thin Veil is a bit hard to believe.
I suggest that whoever wrote the description for Spirit Warrior didn't have lore consistency in mind, and that they were running out of ideas for class abilities. If you read the Legionnaire Scout skills, it's obvious that only a dwarf could attain some of them - certainly not a Warden who hasn't been long-associated with lyrium.
However, it's not explained how this is possible. Outside of the Fade, mundanes are supposed to be invisible to spirits unless certain measures are taken. Such measures include the Veil being thin and blood magic, and possibly lyrium. For a Spirit Warrior to always have access to lyium or a thin Veil is a bit hard to believe.
I suggest that whoever wrote the description for Spirit Warrior didn't have lore consistency in mind, and that they were running out of ideas for class abilities. If you read the Legionnaire Scout skills, it's obvious that only a dwarf could attain some of them - certainly not a Warden who hasn't been long-associated with lyrium.
Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 26 juin 2012 - 03:51 .
#4
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 04:07
Caiden012
-
- Members
- 170 messages
I suspect it has something to do with lyrium. Fenris has shown abilities similar to those of a spirit warrior. He can uses spell like abilities but with lyrium not mana.
#5
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 05:20
TEWR
-
- Members
- 16 994 messages
There isn't much lore to go off of. We know that Spirit Warriors communicate with Fade Spirits to enhance their abilities. We know through our own deduction that their abilities are not all that different from Templar abilities. We also know that the Templars rarely make the distinction between Mage and Non-Mage when it comes to Spirit Warriors.
Although spirit warriors employ magical abilities, they are not mages; instead, they flirt with inhabitants of the Fade who agree to augment mortal abilities in exchange for a glimpse of the physical world. Naturally, the Chantry's templars rarely acknowledge that distinction.
Given that, it seems that the Spirits of the Fade are not as... closed off to experiencing the mortal world as we were led to believe. Alternatively, the inhabitants of the Fade might not be Spirits, but might rather be Demons. But that seems to be stretching it a bit.
I'd hazard a guess that the tome we buy holds a great deal of instructional tips on how to maintain focus and discipline and become aware in the Fade, despite not being a Mage. Or at least establish a waking mental link between the Fade and the real world, in that maybe a Spirit Warrior meditates and is able to communicate with the Fade denizens.
Fading Away." A weighty volume that explains how Fade spirits can enhance a warrior's, er, abilities
The techniques themselves focus on having the magical energies of the Fade acting as a shield towards spells, using said energies to radiate a blast of concussive force, and bypassing enemy armor by dealing damage to the soul.
Lyrium may also be involved, given that it's called "magic in its raw form", the "Waters of Creation", and the "Waters of the Fade".
Indeed, Fenris' abilities themselves also seem to be a mix of Templar/Spirit Warrior. Along with Berserker, but that's not important so anyway....
It's very much an interesting concept and one I hope is explored further in subsequent games, especially since Dwarves can learn the specialization. We know per Gaider that they are not barred from the Fade, but that they just don't enter there when they dream.
They can however be forced to go there, and I'd conjecture that they can just as easily force themselves to go there through specific methods. Which would thus allow for the Dwarves to learn such an art.
Although spirit warriors employ magical abilities, they are not mages; instead, they flirt with inhabitants of the Fade who agree to augment mortal abilities in exchange for a glimpse of the physical world. Naturally, the Chantry's templars rarely acknowledge that distinction.
Given that, it seems that the Spirits of the Fade are not as... closed off to experiencing the mortal world as we were led to believe. Alternatively, the inhabitants of the Fade might not be Spirits, but might rather be Demons. But that seems to be stretching it a bit.
I'd hazard a guess that the tome we buy holds a great deal of instructional tips on how to maintain focus and discipline and become aware in the Fade, despite not being a Mage. Or at least establish a waking mental link between the Fade and the real world, in that maybe a Spirit Warrior meditates and is able to communicate with the Fade denizens.
Fading Away." A weighty volume that explains how Fade spirits can enhance a warrior's, er, abilities
The techniques themselves focus on having the magical energies of the Fade acting as a shield towards spells, using said energies to radiate a blast of concussive force, and bypassing enemy armor by dealing damage to the soul.
Lyrium may also be involved, given that it's called "magic in its raw form", the "Waters of Creation", and the "Waters of the Fade".
Indeed, Fenris' abilities themselves also seem to be a mix of Templar/Spirit Warrior. Along with Berserker, but that's not important so anyway....
It's very much an interesting concept and one I hope is explored further in subsequent games, especially since Dwarves can learn the specialization. We know per Gaider that they are not barred from the Fade, but that they just don't enter there when they dream.
They can however be forced to go there, and I'd conjecture that they can just as easily force themselves to go there through specific methods. Which would thus allow for the Dwarves to learn such an art.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 26 juin 2012 - 05:23 .
#6
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 07:50
Caiden012
-
- Members
- 170 messages
If lyrium plays an improtant role for a spirit warrior that it is possible that dwarves were the first spirit warriors. Dwarves are the only ones that can process lyrium into a less dangerous form. It could be possible for a dwarve to be exposed to so much that it gave a spirit an opening to make contact with one. Or perhaps like you said a dwarve my have forced himself into the fade and made contact with a spirit (or demon) there.
We have seen that a spirit warrior can call on the fade to use magic like abilities. I am simply interested as too how far they can take these abilities. Also I believe that during awakening *Spoilers* that Justice mentioned it was possible for a spirit to become a demon. I wonder what would happen to a spirit warrior if the spirit he made contact with became a demon. I think it could be an interesting bit of lore to expand on. It is like a more offensive templar that is effective against a wider range of enemies.
We have seen that a spirit warrior can call on the fade to use magic like abilities. I am simply interested as too how far they can take these abilities. Also I believe that during awakening *Spoilers* that Justice mentioned it was possible for a spirit to become a demon. I wonder what would happen to a spirit warrior if the spirit he made contact with became a demon. I think it could be an interesting bit of lore to expand on. It is like a more offensive templar that is effective against a wider range of enemies.
#7
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 01:02
Shadow of Light Dragon
-
- Members
- 5 179 messages
I'm leery of it being due to lyrium because it's a dangerous substance, even to non-mages, and it's supposed to be relatively hard to find outside of the Chantry. If lyrium is required every time a Spirit Warrior contacts a spirit (as I think it would be, or the warrior would be invisible to them) then the SW would need a supply of lyrium as constant as a templar's.
And the consumption of lyrium would only be one part of it. By Wynne's word as well as Justice's, spirits have little to do with mortals, mage and mundane alike, and usually avoid them. So not only would the SW need a way to be visible to spirits, they'd also have to entice one to grant aid. While it's possible the SW could develop and maintain a pact with a specific Fade spirit, the specialisation implies it's not a single being who is being dealt with but several -- whoever happens to be around.
Again, looking at some of the other specialisations (like Guardian), I find it hard to accept SW as a canon spec in terms of lore. The abilities are nice, but how they work doesn't make a lot of sense.
And the consumption of lyrium would only be one part of it. By Wynne's word as well as Justice's, spirits have little to do with mortals, mage and mundane alike, and usually avoid them. So not only would the SW need a way to be visible to spirits, they'd also have to entice one to grant aid. While it's possible the SW could develop and maintain a pact with a specific Fade spirit, the specialisation implies it's not a single being who is being dealt with but several -- whoever happens to be around.
Again, looking at some of the other specialisations (like Guardian), I find it hard to accept SW as a canon spec in terms of lore. The abilities are nice, but how they work doesn't make a lot of sense.
- SerGeroldofHightown aime ceci
#8
Posté 26 juin 2012 - 08:05
TEWR
-
- Members
- 16 994 messages
Caiden012 wrote...
Also I believe that during awakening *Spoilers* that Justice mentioned it was possible for a spirit to become a demon.
Correct. From what lore we know, Spirits can be twisted into Demons. However, I'm hesitant to accept this, because if Spirits could become Demons then they would know they were Demons and would also act like Demons.
We've seen one case in particular where a spirit didn't know he was the former and is debated on whether he performed the latter.
Strictly speaking, Demons and Spirits are all spirits. The capitalized word "Spirits" denotes the more benevolent -- but by no means completely safe -- denizens of the Fade. They embody virtues and take a concept to be what defines their existence -- Justice being just, Valor being brave and heroic, etc..
Demons embody vices and prey upon the darker aspects of mankind, seeking only to take things from humans. They envy life and want it for their own.
When referring to every denizen of the Fade, Mages tend to use the word spirits, using a lowercase 's'. You see this most prominently with Merrill in DAII, but there are also a few codex entries penned by Circle Mage scholars that say the same thing -- "All denizens of the Fade are spirits".
I wonder what would happen to a spirit warrior if the spirit he made contact with became a demon. I think it could be an interesting bit of lore to expand on. It is like a more offensive templar that is effective against a wider range of enemies.
Pretty much. It would definitely be an interesting way to explore Spirits and Demons -- especially in the context of DAIII's setting -- since what we know about them in relation to how one becomes the other is restricted to being either Chantry dogma or vague comments by Spirits or Mages.
I'm also curious if a Demon can be changed back into a Spirit.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 27 juin 2012 - 05:20 .
#9
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 06:39
Caiden012
-
- Members
- 170 messages
I read up a bit on Spirit healer and they seem very similar. It seems to me that being a spirit warrior and healer is less about using spells and more about tapping into the power of a spirit and bringing it into the physical world for a time. I believe that it is not so much the use of lyrium but actually using the spirit to tap into the fade and turn it into raw power. Perhaps that is also why dwarves can be spirit warriors.
