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[Delaney]

JediMike2372 wrote...

Cele89 wrote...

So we are still clueless about Shepard "breath scene" at the end of destroy ?

Oh come on.  There has to be some mystery left.  

But I do agree that the 4th ending should be based off of your war assets.

Oh! There is a lot of mystery left IMO ... The mystery of the future ... You get a rough overview of what happens next after the ending of the reaper threat ... The rest is left to your "imagination" ... Yeah ... But mystery concerning the destroy ENDING ... concerning the conclusion or one possible conclusion of Shepard's story is just ... It's not a conclusion, it's not an ending, it's not clear, it's a cliffhanger ... And a cliffhanger at the end of a trilogy  ...  Nope. That's bs. It can work. But NOT, NEVER for the main character. I'm not playing the last game of a trilogy to be only left with "Imagine the rest!" ... But ... Well, that's already old news, I suppose.

[Ownowator]

All and all, I never expected Bioware to give me something wildly diffrent. And yes, what we got is an attempt to stitch togheter a piece of cloth, pierced with a mini-gun, with mixed success.
The retcons themselves are - quite frankly - what I wanted.
No one starves to death, Joker has an actual reason to bug out, and even though poorly presented the extraction of injured teammates is a welcome addition. The slideshows are as basic as they get, it's not Fallout extent of a slideshow where they go place-by-place and person-by-person in detail, but it's still SOMETHING. The refusal ending - while feeling like a slap to the face - is ultimately what ME has been about, choice, granted a ****ty one - but hey!
If nothing else from this tyrade - Bioware, for what little it's worth you've earned my thanks for even bothering with the EC.
And if ME4 is in the production I can just leave some space blank to be filled later.
EA is still Evil and you should liberate from it nonetheless.

[Iakus]

Argetfalcon wrote...

TullyAckland wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

Yep. All I really wanted was a scene where Shep's LI discovered she was alive. Really all I wanted. But I guess there were far fewer of us than I realised.

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:

• Shepard can now actually say goodbye to the love interest when they are split up at the conduit run.
• When Shepard sees flashbacks of important characters during the final decision, the flashbacks are now variable based on your playthrough – so your love interest can appear as one of the flashbacks, providing another moment of reflection between Shepard and that character.
• A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.
• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

But many fans are upset because they actually wanted to see the reunion. If there was anything that Bioware should have taken away from the original ending it's that the fans don't like to speculate so much especially in a highly detailed story such as this. The extended cut did a lot of things but I also feels as though it missed a lot of oppurtunities.

Heck, at this point I'd settle for Shepard standing up.  ME1 and ME2 both had scenes near the end where Shepard climbed out of rubble (After the Sovereign battle in ME2 and the Reaper larva in ME2)  To see Shepard, just, lying there, taking a single breath...It's just not the way you end a heroic trilogy.

[Shepard108278]

iakus wrote...

Argetfalcon wrote...

TullyAckland wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

Yep. All I really wanted was a scene where Shep's LI discovered she was alive. Really all I wanted. But I guess there were far fewer of us than I realised.

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:

• Shepard can now actually say goodbye to the love interest when they are split up at the conduit run.
• When Shepard sees flashbacks of important characters during the final decision, the flashbacks are now variable based on your playthrough – so your love interest can appear as one of the flashbacks, providing another moment of reflection between Shepard and that character.
• A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.
• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

But many fans are upset because they actually wanted to see the reunion. If there was anything that Bioware should have taken away from the original ending it's that the fans don't like to speculate so much especially in a highly detailed story such as this. The extended cut did a lot of things but I also feels as though it missed a lot of oppurtunities.

Heck, at this point I'd settle for Shepard standing up.  ME1 and ME2 both had scenes near the end where Shepard climbed out of rubble (After the Sovereign battle in ME2 and the Reaper larva in ME2)  To see Shepard, just, lying there, taking a single breath...It's just not the way you end a heroic trilogy.

And for me it was perfect. To each their own.

[circe]

I've been thinking more about the EC, my own reaction to it, and why that is. At this point, it hardly matters, but what the hell.

First and foremost, yes, it is a lot better than the original ending. But let's be honest, just about anything would have been better than the original ending. It's gone from utterly dismal to 'eh, maybe I'll play it again'.

One of my biggest issues with the original ending was that there was utterly no closure at all, and therefore less than negated all your decisions; it rendered them completely pointless. While the EC tried (underlined and bolded) to rectify that, it fell ridiculously short. What we got were still shots emphatically pointing out to us that these people were still alive. I had kind of already assumed that. I had pretty much assumed that if Jacob was still in my game that he would be alive and still interact with other human beings; I had also assumed that Grunt and Wrex would find a way back to Tuchanka (the still with Zaeed on a lawn chair was a nice touch though). What I wanted to know was how my Shepard had impacted them. For example, I would have liked to know the more long term consequence of curing the genophage. Do the krogan become proper members of galactic society? Do they get to join the Council? Or do they use their rapidly growing numbers to take over half the galaxy? Does Miranda disappear with her sister to live a quiet life? Does she start helping the Alliance because she was Shepard's LI and he's all about the Alliance? Or does she revive Cerberus in order to protect human interests amongst all the rebuilding? Do humans establish dominance over the other species, or does everyone learn to get along?

And of course, I would have liked more concrete consequences of the rainbow (maybe not so much now) endings. It would have been nice to see something different in the Destroy ending that actually reflected how much effort you put into the geth and EDI. Maybe if you distrusted synthetics all along, eventually the little Starbrat actually turns out to be right and new synthetics in a few thousand years or so start slaughtering organics again. Or if you made peace between the geth and quarians, organics and synthetics actually learn to cooperate long term, thus proving Starbrat wrong. That might have been nice. Having a paragon Shep-Reaper-God in Control years and years from the end of the war going all crazy Starbrat on the galaxy when synthetics start rebelling against organics again. Even the refusal ending, had it had the option for victory in the short term (Shep defeats the Reapers conventionally and survives, retires with LI, rainbows and unicorns and crap), there could have been a little shadow in that ending suggesting that the cycle will start again with new synthetics becoming a threat once more (I personally think the whole synthetic vs organic issue constantly brought up in ME3 was total BS but if that's what the writers are so attached to, then fine, I can work with it).

This is what I would have liked in the way of closure, consequences to my decisions, whether they be good or bad. I can headcanon well enough that people survive thank you. But it was something in DA:O that I saw, the ambiguity in the merit of one's decisions, and truly enjoyed. In DA:O there was a character you can help, it seems like a benign little side quest, but in the end, you get a slide saying that he gets killed and there was a threat of war. I liked that. In the ME3 EC version, I would have gotten a still of him just standing there, talking to people. I'm not asking for a powerpoint presentation of mini stories on the world of ME3 (okay maybe I am a little) but a bit more insight into what my Shepard had really done might have been nice. Maybe BW really is planning for more ME games and that's why the endings tell you next to nothing. But if not, then the endings still only give a token nod to your decisions.

[Iakus]

[quote]Shepard108278 wrote...

Heck, at this point I'd settle for Shepard standing up.  ME1 and ME2 both had scenes near the end where Shepard climbed out of rubble (After the Sovereign battle in ME2 and the Reaper larva in ME2)  To see Shepard, just, lying there, taking a single breath...It's just not the way you end a heroic trilogy.

[/quote]
And for me it was perfect. To each their own.

[/quote]

Yeah, well, "your own" got an ending you liked.  

I got "more speculations" 
 

[Skaldian]

I liked the EC. The one thing I noticed, though, as I was questioning the Catalyst was the excessive use of "we" whenever he was referring to the reapers. I know he did that prior to the EC, but it became really obvious in the EC.

Made me think of Luke saying, "I'll never join you!"

[FOX216BC]

Maybe someone already asked, but what is the catalyst roll after shepard chooses for synthesis?

[LumbercracK]

 I didn't expect much of EC. 
It made me cry. 
I enjoyed some of it. 
Control was exactly what I wanted

But the whole damn game isn't fixed by EC. 
Im still mad. 
They replaced Ashley with a bimbo
They don't let you play with any krogan in your squad 
None of the previous games choices do dick all
He ending is still arbitrary and stupid
The crucible is a retarded plot line
Most of the choices are a joke 
And for a game that was originally marketed as a game of tough choices it was incredibly easy to choose. Good or bad. Besides the game never punishes you for a bad descision. 

ME3 now stands as a poor excuse for an ending to what was supposed to be a game changing game. It's hard to tell but I don't get the feeling bioware will bounce back from this in a positive way. The bad descisions they've made so far have lead to them ****ing up their best franchise and I'll b hard pressed to buy another one until I know they ont **** up again. 

[majinstrings]

LumbercracK wrote...

 I didn't expect much of EC. 
It made me cry. 
I enjoyed some of it. 
Control was exactly what I wanted

But the whole damn game isn't fixed by EC. 
Im still mad. 
They replaced Ashley with a bimbo
They don't let you play with any krogan in your squad 
None of the previous games choices do dick all
He ending is still arbitrary and stupid
The crucible is a retarded plot line
Most of the choices are a joke 
And for a game that was originally marketed as a game of tough choices it was incredibly easy to choose. Good or bad. Besides the game never punishes you for a bad descision. 

ME3 now stands as a poor excuse for an ending to what was supposed to be a game changing game. It's hard to tell but I don't get the feeling bioware will bounce back from this in a positive way. The bad descisions they've made so far have lead to them ****ing up their best franchise and I'll b hard pressed to buy another one until I know they ont **** up again. 

Sabotage the Genophage - Mordin dies, Wrex attacks you and dies, you lose some Krogan support, the Krogan continue to be a slowly dying race...

Sounds like punishment to me...and that's just from one choice...

[Durhon]

I liked the original ending of Mass Effect 3. The Extended Cut just blew it out of the water for me. I picked Control and it was nice to see a future full of hope. Krogan becoming a powerful race again, but this time not they won't need another genophage. The Geth are living happily among the organics and the Mass Relays are fixed so Joker and the crew of the Normandy can return home.

[LumbercracK]

Ya me3 punishes you slightly for me3. But in now way do my actions in 1 or 2 negatively affect me in any way. My one regret is not saving wrex. What did it change. I had to deal with Wreave who I did not like. Apart from that the story remained the same. ME3 strong arms the franchise to fit its moronic story and ignores anything I did prior.

[KLGChaos]

You see, the problem with EC is that it doesn't fix the root of the problem. Many people say Bioware failed with the ending. I don't think this is true. I think they succeeded in what they set out to do-- give a few different options to choose from with consequences that make the choice difficult. Does this make the endings bad? Depends on your opinion. Personally, I think the endings are fubar, but there's many others who seem to enjoy them.

The issue people have stems less from the endings, I think, and more from the broken promises. People went into the game expecting their actions to "completely shape the outcome" like many, many quotes from developers pointed to. The problem is, somewhere along the way, they lost their original vision of this being the fan's story and it became Bioware's story. Whether or not Star Kid is bad writing or not is up to the individual fan, but for a game that gave so many options to different people, the ending really seems to cater to one type of player and that's the problem. Add in the fact that many storylines still happened whether or not you did certain things in previous games, just with palette swaps of the original characters, and the choices you made end up becoming even less important.

Beyond Star Kid or RBG, it shows a disconnect between Bioware and it's fanbase. Obviously, they couldn't satisfy everyone, but the backlash they received wasn't just due the to nonsensical ending (as many players perceived-- I understood it, I just found it lame). It was due to the fact that the options presented alienated a large portion of the players who were always told it was their story, only to have that taken away from them in the end. It catered to a specific crowd of people and left many others feeling cold.

In the end, Mass Effect 3's failure comes from making promises they couldn't keep (like a certain other series), but more importantly, from promises that could have been kept, but weren't. Sadly, all the EC doesn't do anything for the overlying issues.

Modifié par KLGChaos, 04 juillet 2012 - 08:25 .

[majinstrings]

LumbercracK wrote...

Ya me3 punishes you slightly for me3. But in now way do my actions in 1 or 2 negatively affect me in any way. My one regret is not saving wrex. What did it change. I had to deal with Wreave who I did not like. Apart from that the story remained the same. ME3 strong arms the franchise to fit its moronic story and ignores anything I did prior.

Unfortunately, it would be just about impossible to change entire missions and especially the whole story based on all or even some of the choices you made in 2 previous games.

Sure, some of the choice differences are ridiculous, like Kill the Rachni Queen in ME1, there's a new Reaper Rachni Queen or Legion dies or is sold to Cerberus in ME2, Legion 2.0 is on the Geth Dreadnought...just to name a couple...

Of course everyone would like for every choice to make a noticeable difference on the overall story...but it's just too much for a video game at this time...

We might see another Mass Effect-type game series in the future where you get to import choices into each entry and make a truly unique experience and story...but this type of storytelling in video games is still young...you can't make huge dramatic changes to a game's story and missions based on a series of choices made throughout it's predecessors; not yet, anyway...that day may come (hopefully sooner rather than later) but it's not here yet.

I think Bioware did a great job considering the current limits of the medium.

...Wait a minute...what does this have to do with the extended cut?

[LumbercracK]

I'm fine with the idea of a medium being limited and scopes not being as large as we'd like.
I'm not fine with being sold a straw house with faux brick and being told its brick until I sign the doted line
Everyone complained about the ending but it was only the place where it was
Most evident. Choices don't matter in mass effect. The game is essentially linear with a single arbitrary choice that defies the natural continuation of the story.

I get that it's very difficult to produce multiple endings based on hours of variable gameplay. But when you set out to create that expeiriance and sell it as though that's exactly what your doing dot be suprised when your customers don't like being given half of what they were promised.

[AndrewLBC]

Bioware was given something incredibly rare by an incredibly devoted fan base... the opportunity to throw out the worst ending in video game history... and to replace it with an ending deserving of the name Mass Effect. This meant creating an ending that actually had narrative coherence, didn't introduce a new character, mission objective, and main conflict some 5 minutes before the credits rolled, and most importantly.... was written by a man with a brain... Patrick Weekes.

I still would like to know what led Chris Priestly to send the writers home so he, all by himself, would have the ability to write an ending to Mass Effect that was anything other than a pile of garbage.

Bioware has managed in only 6 months to go from my all time favorite Game Studio to a level on par with 3dRealms.

Modifié par AndrewLBC, 04 juillet 2012 - 10:49 .

[AndroLeonidas]

AndrewLBC wrote...

Bioware was given something incredibly rare by an incredibly devoted fan base... the opportunity to throw out the worst ending in video game history... and to replace it with an ending deserving of the name Mass Effect. This meant creating an ending that actually had narrative coherence, didn't introduce a new character, mission objective, and main conflict some 5 minutes before the credits rolled, and most importantly.... was written by a man with a brain... Patrick Weekes.

I still would like to know what led Chris Priestly to send the writers home so he, all by himself, would have the ability to write an ending to Mass Effect that was anything other than a pile of garbage.

Bioware has managed in only 6 months to go from my all time favorite Game Studio to a level on par with 3dRealms.

This. So very much this.

[LumbercracK]

Beter questiOn. Where did the budget go. I hear allot about limitations yet in all aspects it seems me2 was bigger. Not only that but if limitations where so restricting WHY WAS JAMES INTRODUCED AS A NEW CHARACTER!
The dude has no reason to exist. Is un interesting and stands no chance of characters caring about him yet he is more relevant in me3 than grunt or jack.
Me3 was just a bad game from a narrative design standpoint.

In a game where choices matter replay ability is big. But when everything goes just as it should no matter what the replay ability is destroyed. If there is no way for tuchanka to be a totally impossible mission in my path then their is no point giving me any of the prior decisions. The data. Maelon living. Mordin living. Wrex living. None of that matters.

ME3 WAS SUPPOSED TO CONCLUDE THE STORY IN A WAY THAT FULLY REALIZES OUR PAST DEFISIONS AND GIVES US THE FULL CONSEQUENCE OF THEM.

instead we got a game that makes us redecide every decision we've made and pushes us along rails only to come to a fork at the end with arbitrary decisions that amount to geth or no geth or wtf or die in vain.

I wish bad things for bioware as they have let themselves down. The best single player expeiriance yet and I can't bear replay it.
Now I'll just play tribes and smnc and wait for planet side and world of warplanes.

[Isichar]

I enjoyed the EC, definitely left the series on much more of a bittersweet note and not just bitter. If this is the end of the mass effect trilogy I can live with that and still enjoy this series from start to finish without dreading the last 5 minutes.

Thanks Bioware.

Edit: I do wish refuse was handled a little bit better but oh well.

Modifié par Isichar, 04 juillet 2012 - 11:56 .

[SparkyRich]

JediMike2372 wrote...

B.Shep wrote...

They didn't put Shepard's name on the wall because he survived Destroy ending, they are just showing the LI and squadmates aren't ready to believe Shepard died and they are proved right in the next scene. That is pretty much clear in the game.
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12756781&lf=8


Please stop the IT talk, you are fooling yourself...

I agree.  The IT talk has got to go away.  Bioware has made it clear that they are not going that route and I am ok with that.  They listened to us about 80-90% of what was wrong with the ending and I'm personally fine with what they came up with.  IT theory is a wish so that peoples Shepards will live.  And I get it.  We don't want to see this beloved character die.  But here is the thing, most heroes end up dead because they put their lives on the line for a greater cause.  I can think of no other way I would want my Shepard to go out.  Of course I would like the ending with lots of blue babies, but hey, Bioware decided that this hero has to die, and again, I'm ok with that.

I wanted my Shepard to die on the beach with the crew at his 95th birthday after celebrating a long, quiet retirement.  It's a death that few heroes get but that they all deserve.

[SparkyRich]

AndrewLBC wrote...

Bioware was given something incredibly rare by an incredibly devoted fan base... the opportunity to throw out the worst ending in video game history... and to replace it with an ending deserving of the name Mass Effect. This meant creating an ending that actually had narrative coherence, didn't introduce a new character, mission objective, and main conflict some 5 minutes before the credits rolled, and most importantly.... was written by a man with a brain... Patrick Weekes.

I still would like to know what led Chris Priestly to send the writers home so he, all by himself, would have the ability to write an ending to Mass Effect that was anything other than a pile of garbage.

Bioware has managed in only 6 months to go from my all time favorite Game Studio to a level on par with 3dRealms.

Hey!  3dRealms and Apogee are great studios!

[Imakassafabrication]

I believe mass effect 3 is the end of commander shepard. Even if you survive indoctrination you still wake up pretty smashed up. Mass effect 4 or mass effect whatever is next will explain shepards fate and our choices so far will undoubtedly be able to be imported.

The reaper threat continues for sure.

[AresKeith]

Isichar wrote...

I enjoyed the EC, definitely left the series on much more of a bittersweet note and not just bitter. If this is the end of the mass effect trilogy I can live with that and still enjoy this series from start to finish without dreading the last 5 minutes.

Thanks Bioware.

Edit: I do wish refuse was handled a little bit better but oh well.

the refuse option should have worked around your war assets

[Obi-Wan Jacoby]

Imakassafabrication wrote...

I believe mass effect 3 is the end of commander shepard. Even if you survive indoctrination you still wake up pretty smashed up. Mass effect 4 or mass effect whatever is next will explain shepards fate and our choices so far will undoubtedly be able to be imported.

The reaper threat continues for sure.

Maybe, but I wonder what could possibly be worse than sentient machines that can warp your mind to do their will and are about as tall as skyscrapers with numbers well over ten thousand?...  Mass Effect 4 would most likely be about the legacy Shepard leaves behind, which would honestly be strange if a new player started the Mass Effect series on 4.  How do you even write that one?

[Grand Champion]

Even if there was a Mass Effect 4, who would buy it?