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Extended Cut: SPOILER Discussion


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#2751
Offender_Mullet

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Just finished the Extended Cut. I'll keep this short, because I'm beyond tired of reading long-winded, 30 paragraph-long posts on this particular subject. What's done is done people. Get over it and move on.

I picked the destroy ending. I always have actually. EDI and the Geth are dead, but hey...at least Shep made them self-aware before ending their lives. :lol: I enjoyed the added material. Was really hoping to see all of my war assets in action though, that was the only thing I was disappointed by. Little things here and there (story-wise) during the 3rd act still confuse me, but no need to bring them up.

My favorite slide was Zaeed chillaxing on a chair with drinks.

Modifié par Offender_Mullet, 07 juillet 2012 - 11:21 .


#2752
3DandBeyond

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CycloneKnight wrote...

I will preface this by saying that I normally don't post here on BSN, and I did not wade through the hundred-plus pages of posts on this topic, but I will add my two cents anyway.  First, the Extended Cut was a vast improvement over the original endings, but not truly satisfying.  The addition of the Refusal ending was a nice touch, but what I think is really missing is another ending entirely.  I remember watching a review on Youtube about Mass Effect 3, one that brought up the Mass Effect trilogy's core game mechanic:the dialogue wheel.  The dialogue wheel is the key to the trilogy; it's what makes the Mass Effect gaming experience... and we didn't really get that.

The ending I think we're missing (well, two, actually) is the one where Shepard simply convinces the Catalyst/Reapers to go away and give the galaxy a chance to prove them wrong, either through Charm or Intimidate.  It wouldn't be a complete, happy-go-lucky victory -- the Reapers would still be out there, after all, a looming threat ready to swoop in and start reaping again if we make the mistakes the Catalyst is convinced we will -- but it would give us a greater sense of hope for the future while also still allowing us to defy the Catalyst and Reapers, who we've been fighting for three games.

I think that's the only thing that upsets me about the endings that the Extended Cut didn't do anything to fix.  The Catalyst is the very embodiment of everything we've fought throughout the whole trilogy, and in the end, it can pretty much go "heads I win, tails you lose."


Exactly.  Since they decided to force his existence upon us with no foreshadowing then having a way to get him to agree or understand could actually have been a really good thing and a setup for even DLC or a new game.  After each cycle the reapers go off to hide and are dormant-they are vulnerable.  What if there were clues as to where they were that could lead to their ultimate destruction?  Make no mistake, I see them as still a threat that needs to be dealt with fully.  The kid still is there and might see something that leads him to believe he was right all along.  And there are many suggestions throughout the games that the reapers need the organic goo.

The thing is there are so many unexplored things in ME that it isn't funny.  The Keepers are underutilized as a plot point-what the hell are in their protein vats?  The Rachni were alive when the Protheans were and were used by them to be warriors.  The Rachni have a "genetic" or "racial" memory-they can remember all the things that happened before.

#2753
The Twilight God

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- To The Twilight God, responses to your numbered points.

1: Yeah, an emotional moment, but still nonsensical. Again they seemed to want to go for emotional payoff, rather than something that makes sense in the story.


I found it emotional heartwretching. That's fine if there was a payoff, but there wasn't with destroy. The fact that there was no reunion shown makes it feel like that was the last moment they ever spent together. This is compounded by the fact that at least for awhile Shepard was alive. and if he/she stayed that way Shepard will be cut off from the Normandy long enough to die of old age considering the state of the relays. After the ending it was depressing.

BlueStorm83 wrote...
2: Shepard can debate the Catalyst. Very briefly. And then everyone dies. This still sucks ass. The Catalyst is 100% of what's wrong with Mass Effect 3. Everything that blows stems from him, and if we remove him and the consequences of his being there, everything will be fixed. I'm hoping to God that some fan community mods Mass Effect 3, removes him entirely, and includes some new, actually good endings that make sense given what we know.


He doesn't realy make any arguments. He just makes blanket comments and inquires. He never counters the Catalyst, but instead just nods and accepts whatever it says. This led to the notorious Indoctrination Theory. I would actually be fine if indoctrination was taking place and the control and synthesis options were traps to get Shepard to commit suicide. That would give the Catalyst function. As a sort of final boss you fight in a battle of will. When I first played it I chose none thinking that saying yes equalled one of its suicide options. I was thinking there has to something else to this... then I heard Liara and promptly exited game, reloaded the whole Citadel over and picked Destroy (what I came to do in the first place).

[

BlueStorm83 wrote...
3: The only reason they have this in there is because they swore up and down that they gave us the endings they wanted, but we "didn't understand" them. If they removed the COMPLETELY ****ty idea of the broken relays, that would be admitting that their endings were total horse ****.


They clearly did not think any of this through. I heard two guys wrote it in Novemebr of last year. FIVE YEARS to iron out an ending and they rush it at the last moment?

Oh, I see you already heard about this.

#2754
Guest_alleyd_*

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 @3dandbeyond thank you for the comment on my above post

[*]message lost on formatting

Modifié par alleyd, 08 juillet 2012 - 01:05 .


#2755
BlueStorm83

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

I say only one thing. Why a child? Ok two thing. And why a child who followed Shepard throughout ME3?


One part of the major flaw of the whole thing.  The child was a thoroughly unnecessary component-inserted at least initially to give Shepard that "face" of who s/he is fighting for.  But, Shepard always had that-and the player always had that.  The player in many ways always fought for Shepard.  Shepard in turn never needed prompting as to who the fight was for-the faces were always there.  Garrus and all the rest.  The attack on Earth even was an attempt to personalize it for Shepard, but that wasn't needed.  Shepard saw the big picture and didn't tend to play favorites.  But, using the kid that Shepard shows far more feeling for than a lot of the rest and then using Earth as some rallying cry is so artificial.

The nightmares would have been so much more powerful for me if the kid hadn't been in them.  The voices of the fallen, sounds of reapers, screams, the shadowy figures, that was enough.  The kid again was there to put a face on it.  Ugh.

Then at the end, the use of the kid's image is one thing that really seems to cause a lot of people to underestimate the value of who he supposedly represents.  It is also partly their way of trying to tie it all together-kid in the beginning and at the end.  But, the star kid is a totally new "individual" with no real ties to the human kid.  He more appropriately should have looked like a reaper or TIM, but apparently the catalyst read Shepard's mind and could pull this image from it to use to "trick" Shepard (and it seems it can only be to trick), but the catalyst can't pull out other thoughts, like the resolution of the geth/quarian conflict.


---  The kid at the begining and the dreams wasn't too bad, for me.  I mean, I get it, Shepard is sad he couldn't save an innocent kid.  I feel like they had to put him in, or Shepard would still be that big picture man.  He needed an emotional kick to the gut to make him focus on Earth, rather than the whole galaxy at the same time.

Let's be honest, Shepard from ME1 and ME2 wouldn't have acted that way.  Hackett would say, "Shepard, we need Krogans, Turians, and Salarians to help us get Earth back!"  And Shepard would have immediately said, "This is bigger than Earth, Admiral!  We need to stand together on a galactic scale to save everyone!"  In fact, Shepard says pretty much that same thing right before the Reapers show up and torch the Alliance HQ.  Now, take that same Shepard and dischevel him a bit by blowing up soldiers, civilians, and a kid who he already tried to save, and maybe he'll be maleable enough to WANT to focus on Earth first.

#2756
MTX99

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I love everything. Control is the best ending for my femshep. She is now the goddess of the galaxy. but it's a shame ME2 characters such as Samara, Miranda , Jack or Thane can't put your name on the wall.

#2757
The Twilight God

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alleyd wrote...

 My main problem with the EC (Too many to list actually) was the Reject option ensuring a total game failure. 

The 3 RGB options involve dealing with the devil and making huge sacrifice based on his word alone. A being who to all intent and purpose was insane. Regrdless of how many coats of paint or reams of text needed to explain any of these options they fail outright as credible themes for me. 

My solution would be a later high EMS refusal option.

  • Shepard does the refusal speech and signals hackett to self detrcut the Crucible (Its illogical to believe that their wouldn't be some sort of kill switch built in as a safety precaution)
  • Hackett orders the self destruct and tells the fleet to withdraw. Joker hears this and turns back to resce Shepard
  • Crucible explodes taking out the Reaper central control, Cue mad and disorganised reapers. Fleets return and mop up Sol.
Earth is saved and can now be used as starting base for an extended campaign to free each system. Play this out as a string of multiple S/P Campaigns were you take each races home world back and free the galaxy from the Reapers.

I believe this would reconcile the themes (Hope, teamwork and defiant struggle against impossible odds)  that have been lost in the current EC ending.
  • Provide an option for a sequel without the need for reconciling completely diverse story ends. 
  • Provide an additional revenue stream and satisfy demands for effective S/P DLC 
Those fans satisfied with their choice need not purchase the DLC. I believe this would identify those who truly believe the EC choices offer correct endings for the series as a whole.


Straight up destroy the Catalyst... interesting. I'd like it to have the Soveriegn effect in which their barrier go down and the fleets fight them conventionally. Then the Normandy gets to punch a hole in Harbinger.

It's funny how they had 5 years to plan this ending.... god, that's depressing. I think I come up better paint for this turd in 15 minutes. I had some ideas on this too.

http://social.biowar...012597#13019663

#2758
BlueStorm83

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3DandBeyond wrote...

*Quotes snipped out*

Yes, nicely put Bluestorm. 

I totally want to select the shoot the kid reject, but I feel in doing so I add to the enjoyment of some BW dev somewhere who is raising his middle finger high.

Control and Synthesis are total non-options because what they both need Shepard to do and what they both say about the quality of the human soul and spirit is extremely insulting and demeaning.  They are in essence agreeing with the star kid's assessment of people as futile fated beings.  Destroy scars me.  EDI told my Shepard that Joker freed her, but she gave her life.  Legion had me shouting that his soul did exist and by extension so too did the souls of all the geth.  Joker's heart and soul were wrapped up in the Normandy and then in some essence of that brought to life in the person (the person) of EDI.  In killing her, I am killing him when he just found life as well.  But, it's the only choice I think I can make if I consider that any choice is real.  I can even consider that EDI and the geth have consented to it because EDI talks about dying for her teammates and that she is willing to do so.  The geth by fighting in the war have agreed to this as well, everyone fully knowing it's probably suicide.

However, any choice still rests on the kid's word and him telling the truth.  He's crazy, even more so this time.  The consoles where the choices are are on the Citadel, a part of the star kid.  The crucible (he says) is just a big energy beam.  So, nothing about this is able to be trusted.  The kid already did something to "trick" or force his creators into a reaper, so Shepard would wonder what any of these choices would actually do and think it could be a trick.

Shepard would choose refuse.  I as a player cannot pick it, and I know that destroy does destroy the reapers but the cost tears me up inside.  The ending for me as a player has no satisfactory conclusion.  And I think this is the most awful way to end a game, making choices outlined so well by Bluestorm83.


---  The Reject option may be a middle finger to us, but honestly, it's just as big a middle finger to THEM.  If they say, "Ha ha, picking Reject makes you lose the entire galaxy!" I can turn right around and say, "Ha ha, that's still better than the mother ****ing bull**** nonsense rainbow colored butt**** three ****bag ****ing bull**** choices that you give us!"

Even Destroy says that we're not able to stand on our own.  That we need a magic space robot to show up and make the bad robot monsters go away.  No, to hell with that, we can deal with them as we see fit, we're the mortal races of this galaxy.

To me, no choice makes the GAME have a good ending.  But picking Reject makes ME get a good ending to Ending Effect.

#2759
3DandBeyond

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BlueStorm83 wrote...


---  The kid at the begining and the dreams wasn't too bad, for me.  I mean, I get it, Shepard is sad he couldn't save an innocent kid.  I feel like they had to put him in, or Shepard would still be that big picture man.  He needed an emotional kick to the gut to make him focus on Earth, rather than the whole galaxy at the same time.

Let's be honest, Shepard from ME1 and ME2 wouldn't have acted that way.  Hackett would say, "Shepard, we need Krogans, Turians, and Salarians to help us get Earth back!"  And Shepard would have immediately said, "This is bigger than Earth, Admiral!  We need to stand together on a galactic scale to save everyone!"  In fact, Shepard says pretty much that same thing right before the Reapers show up and torch the Alliance HQ.  Now, take that same Shepard and dischevel him a bit by blowing up soldiers, civilians, and a kid who he already tried to save, and maybe he'll be maleable enough to WANT to focus on Earth first.


The only other problem with that is that certain space born Shepards shouldn't be that easily human centric.  A bit of a renegade/paragon quandry here actually.  An Earthborn Shepard gets a renegade bump and is considered more human centric (believes more in TIM).  A colony born one gets a slight paragon and slight renegade bump.  A spacer born one gets a paragon bump-a spacer more likely to be open to all species.  The thing here is who does Shepard at the core identify with-how does Shepard see him/herself.  I don't see Shepard as every having thought of things in terms of what might happen to Earth and I think that's one big failure of the whole game.  Yes, protecting the Crucible is key, but taking Earth back.  It just seemed really selfish.

#2760
BlueStorm83

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The Twilight God wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- To The Twilight God, responses to your numbered points.

1: Yeah, an emotional moment, but still nonsensical. Again they seemed to want to go for emotional payoff, rather than something that makes sense in the story.


I found it emotional heartwretching. That's fine if there was a payoff, but there wasn't with destroy. The fact that there was no reunion shown makes it feel like that was the last moment they ever spent together. This is compounded by the fact that at least for awhile Shepard was alive. and if he/she stayed that way Shepard will be cut off from the Normandy long enough to die of old age considering the state of the relays. After the ending it was depressing.

BlueStorm83 wrote...
2: Shepard can debate the Catalyst. Very briefly. And then everyone dies. This still sucks ass. The Catalyst is 100% of what's wrong with Mass Effect 3. Everything that blows stems from him, and if we remove him and the consequences of his being there, everything will be fixed. I'm hoping to God that some fan community mods Mass Effect 3, removes him entirely, and includes some new, actually good endings that make sense given what we know.


He doesn't realy make any arguments. He just makes blanket comments and inquires. He never counters the Catalyst, but instead just nods and accepts whatever it says. This led to the notorious Indoctrination Theory. I would actually be fine if indoctrination was taking place and the control and synthesis options were traps to get Shepard to commit suicide. That would give the Catalyst function. As a sort of final boss you fight in a battle of will. When I first played it I chose none thinking that saying yes equalled one of its suicide options. I was thinking there has to something else to this... then I heard Liara and promptly exited game, reloaded the whole Citadel over and picked Destroy (what I came to do in the first place).

[

BlueStorm83 wrote...
3: The only reason they have this in there is because they swore up and down that they gave us the endings they wanted, but we "didn't understand" them. If they removed the COMPLETELY ****ty idea of the broken relays, that would be admitting that their endings were total horse ****.


They clearly did not think any of this through. I heard two guys wrote it in Novemebr of last year. FIVE YEARS to iron out an ending and they rush it at the last moment?

Oh, I see you already heard about this.


---  Yup.  lol

---  Here's another ending that I think we should have had:  Sacrifice.  Imagine if we had the option to, right then and there, blow the Crucible and Citadel.  It would destroy the entire Sol system.  Earth, Sword and Hammer fleets, Mars, the entire population of all of our Solar colonies.  The Normandy.  Earth would be rubble...

But it would take Harbinger with it.  It would kill THOUSANDS of Reapers assembled to protect the Catalyst.  It would kill the Catalyst himself.  The rest of the Reapers would be in chaos.  What would they do?  Run away?  Fight each other?  Commit suicide, realizing their own abhorrent nature?  Try and continue fighting, now with no coordination and lacking their singular mind?

I think, in that situation, victory without choices would be possible.  Humanity might be altogether doomed, but I think that a scattered, divided, significantly weakened Reaper population could be held out against and eventually whittled down.  It would be a long shot, but I think it would be better odds than Reject.

And it would be one last "**** you" to the Catalyst and his entire screwed up existence.

#2761
iHorizons

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*My opinion*

I loved the Destroy ending with the EC.

Control just makes me laugh because how garbage it is.

Synthesis is the evil ending, how can you fuse the entire galaxys DNA without their consent. You are just doing the reapers job for them.

Refusal is okay, I just find it meh.

#2762
The Twilight God

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- To The Twilight God, responses to your numbered points.

1: Yeah, an emotional moment, but still nonsensical. Again they seemed to want to go for emotional payoff, rather than something that makes sense in the story.


I found it emotional heartwretching. That's fine if there was a payoff, but there wasn't with destroy. The fact that there was no reunion shown makes it feel like that was the last moment they ever spent together. This is compounded by the fact that at least for awhile Shepard was alive. and if he/she stayed that way Shepard will be cut off from the Normandy long enough to die of old age considering the state of the relays. After the ending it was depressing.

BlueStorm83 wrote...
2: Shepard can debate the Catalyst. Very briefly. And then everyone dies. This still sucks ass. The Catalyst is 100% of what's wrong with Mass Effect 3. Everything that blows stems from him, and if we remove him and the consequences of his being there, everything will be fixed. I'm hoping to God that some fan community mods Mass Effect 3, removes him entirely, and includes some new, actually good endings that make sense given what we know.


He doesn't realy make any arguments. He just makes blanket comments and inquires. He never counters the Catalyst, but instead just nods and accepts whatever it says. This led to the notorious Indoctrination Theory. I would actually be fine if indoctrination was taking place and the control and synthesis options were traps to get Shepard to commit suicide. That would give the Catalyst function. As a sort of final boss you fight in a battle of will. When I first played it I chose none thinking that saying yes equalled one of its suicide options. I was thinking there has to something else to this... then I heard Liara and promptly exited game, reloaded the whole Citadel over and picked Destroy (what I came to do in the first place).

[

BlueStorm83 wrote...
3: The only reason they have this in there is because they swore up and down that they gave us the endings they wanted, but we "didn't understand" them. If they removed the COMPLETELY ****ty idea of the broken relays, that would be admitting that their endings were total horse ****.


They clearly did not think any of this through. I heard two guys wrote it in Novemebr of last year. FIVE YEARS to iron out an ending and they rush it at the last moment?

Oh, I see you already heard about this.


---  Yup.  lol

---  Here's another ending that I think we should have had:  Sacrifice.  Imagine if we had the option to, right then and there, blow the Crucible and Citadel.  It would destroy the entire Sol system.  Earth, Sword and Hammer fleets, Mars, the entire population of all of our Solar colonies.  The Normandy.  Earth would be rubble...

But it would take Harbinger with it.  It would kill THOUSANDS of Reapers assembled to protect the Catalyst.  It would kill the Catalyst himself.  The rest of the Reapers would be in chaos.  What would they do?  Run away?  Fight each other?  Commit suicide, realizing their own abhorrent nature?  Try and continue fighting, now with no coordination and lacking their singular mind?

I think, in that situation, victory without choices would be possible.  Humanity might be altogether doomed, but I think that a scattered, divided, significantly weakened Reaper population could be held out against and eventually whittled down.  It would be a long shot, but I think it would be better odds than Reject.

And it would be one last "**** you" to the Catalyst and his entire screwed up existence.


With Haastrom and the dark matter stuff in mind I actually though that's what the ending was. That it would kill our sun to power the Crucible and then pull a Stargate SG1. In the episode "The Reconning" a signal was sent thru the entire gate system to destroy all the collectors in the galaxy. I knew the citadel would be moved based on pre-release screenshots. I just though the crucible would fit within the arms.

A poster above mention a destroy crucible/catalyst ending. I added that their reaper shields should go down ala soveriegn and the fleet could fight them conventionally and win with a high EMS. Since most where in earth orbit to protect the Catalyst the other planets could win their fights too or at least we'd know the other reapers would be wittled down in time. and of course Joker and EDI could punch a hole thru Harbinger. "Tell Soveriegn I said hello, beotch!"

#2763
The Twilight God

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Note: The following is based on the idea of painting over the turd. Not flushing it and starting from scratch. It was though up as I typed it so, um... yeah.

Personally, as far as the Catalyst and Crucible is concerned I think it should have been revealed by Hackett beforehand that the scientists informed him that Crucible requires an organic interface. This eliminates the necessity for 3 seperate premade ineract points. I'll explain this later.

Anyway, so when the Crucible attaches itself to the Citadel there is a chair kind of like the chair Arnold Schwarzenegger straps into in Total Recall to get his memory implant. Basically, Control is the only option however it is what you do with that control is the difference. The Crucible is itself a sort of AI interface to effect the reapers. It needs the Citadel by design in order to deliver it;s influence through all the relays. This is what I figured as this tactic was used in Star Gate SG1 to deal with the Replicators spread across the galaxy.

1.The Catalyst.

Honestly, it's not needed. It's only purpose seems to be to introduce the Control and Synthesis options (which were probably unexpected by players anyway). Made obvious in the original endings in which it just reads off your choices. But since the endings are there and Bioware insists on keeping those other two endings...

Some ways to deal with the Catalyst is to actually have options that engage it in debate. Bringing up EDI and the geth as proof it is wrong. This way Shepard does seem indoctrinated by just lazily nodding and not ever questioning this thing's illogical assertions or its motives for helping Shepard. Although the Crucible has a humanoid interface, it rests on top of another form of interfact that isn't a chair, just a specialized floor panel shaped like it is meant for a small reaper to rest on. This would interact with the chair (an unexpected and unplanned for situation). Essentially the Catalyst was once a member of the aforementioned race who created the reapers. He became an AI and the process eventually warped his mind over time after the death of his physical body. That is why his solution is so nonsensical and why he didn't simply act as galactic C-sec vs galactic butcher. That was the original intent, but he eventual decided to go the butcher route(after his physical form passed). He is basically an unstable AI and can't really be reasoned with via argument. In Overlord the organic mind interface went bad if you recall. In his mind, if he allows organics and synthetics to live they will advance to a point as to oppose a guardian solution, but if he is a stricter dictator and suppress their evolution he is counteracting the universe/nature and nothing new is gain from the various species. Broken logic? Yes. But it's unstable so... yeah.

These changes better explain why it holds on to such a gruesome solution when better ones are available.

2. Control.
You can take the Control route Bioware already has and use the reapers to make repairs to infrastructure and eventual toss them into the galaxies suns somewhere down the line. However, if the Crucible doesn't have the right parts (keep collector base/reaper processor) this option will "kill" Shepard (in that he can never wake up) and make the overlord Ending which is already included because it changes Shepard. Because without the reaper brain to help maintain control Shepard has to fully integrate. In this way your choice in ME2 matters. Either way Shepard tosses them into the sun and self terminates eventually because he will eventually become unstable like the Catalyst if he remains an AI after physical death. But for a time he has reapers help with repairs and whatnot.

As opposed to:

Reaper: Hey, Shep. Run over there and grab hold of those live electical wires and you can take over us all. Trust me, I'm the Reaper Overlord. I have no reason whatsoever to deceive you, right?

Shepard: Uh.. yeah. OK. *commits suicide*

Reaper: Wow! Can't believe that actually worked! LOL @ Shepard

3. Destroy.
You do what the Crucible was meant to do in the way the scientists, protheans, Inansunnon, etc. envisioned. Again you sit in the same chair, but you send a shutdown command so it effectively kills all the reapers on the spot like it already does now. With low EMS this would not be possible as the reapers would have damaged the Crucible before it docked with the Citadel. In this eventuality you have to control the reapers and force them to fly into the nearest sun. The strain of the control takes Shepard's life, but he succeeds. It would play out like a test of wills: Shepard vs the Reapers. The "ghost" of the fallen comrades like Anderson, Thane, Mordin, Ashley/Kaiden would give him the strength to keep fighting. This ending is controlled heavily by EMS. Since the Geth have Reaper code the fleet present goes into the sun with the reapers. The geth on the ground simply shut down (and are restarted later like Legion in ME2). So they aren't completely wiped out.

4. Synthesis.
This is only and option if you have the reaper heart (Destroy the collector Base). As I mentioned in a previous post, the function of synthesis would not be accomplished by galactic Narnian magic wand of Azlan. Shepard gets in that chair and samples of his DNA are extracted to formulate the orsynthicretro virus. But he survives the process. However, it is the children of the infected who become orsynthics. Like in the way the genophage changes the host, but it is the offspring who bear the brunt of the effect. This makes alittle more sense I think as their DNA is orsynthics from conception - not magically on the spot out of thin air. So no one currently live at the time will have glowing eyes and veins. There really is no point in synthesis making people have glowing parts anyway. Optional glow:) The reaper heart which is orsynthics as reapers are part organic help facilitate this (this is why Shepard survives). If you keep the base then you have the brain which is not orsynthic as the neutron purge left only the machine parts. In this case more is needed from Shepard himself and the process kills him. Like Eve if you destroy Maelons data Shepard dies passing on his DNA. In this ending the synthesis effect the reapers too by breaking their indoctrination. They help with repairs, share their cultural knowledge, clone issue of their respective harvested races and incorporate it into new geth platforms that are permanent before dismantling themselves. This is the geth equivalent to snythesis. The idea of machines becoming organic is more silly as that would turn the whole fleet into living ships. There is no way the Crucible could pinpount what is and isn't a mobile platform. If it can do that then it can target just the reapers and not all synthetic like the Destroy ending now.

As opposed to:

Reaper: Hey, Shep. Go jump into the death ray... er, um, I mean "Harmony of Life" beam. You can trust me, right? I'm the Reaper Overlord. I have no reason whatsoever to deceive you.

Shepard: Uh.. yeah. OK. *commits suicide*

Anderson's ghost: Idjit. *facepalm*

Reaper: I should have just told him putting his gun in his mouth and pulling the trigger would defeat us! LOL


5. Conclusion:

All 3 ending options end with the reapers gone within 90 years or so. This way they leave the franchise open to future expansion with all 3 endings being viable. I came up with this while typing. I don;t see how Bioware's endings were so obviosuly rushed and unthought out when they had years to iron it out.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:29 .


#2764
ElementL09

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Question, why is there just a beam on Earth when there are Reaper forces on multiple planets?

Also, why is it when we get to the beam and get beamed up there are only human bodies? Surely there have been other races on the Planet or other races in general that get beamed up into the Citadel.

#2765
3DandBeyond

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The Twilight God wrote...

With Haastrom and the dark matter stuff in mind I actually though that's what the ending was. That it would kill our sun to power the Crucible and then pull a Stargate SG1. In the episode "The Reconning" a signal was sent thru the entire gate system to destroy all the collectors in the galaxy. I knew the citadel would be moved based on pre-release screenshots. I just though the crucible would fit within the arms.

A poster above mention a destroy crucible/catalyst ending. I added that their reaper shields should go down ala soveriegn and the fleet could fight them conventionally and win with a high EMS. Since most where in earth orbit to protect the Catalyst the other planets could win their fights too or at least we'd know the other reapers would be wittled down in time. and of course Joker and EDI could punch a hole thru Harbinger. "Tell Soveriegn I said hello, beotch!"


That was actually what I hoped could happen as well-before the EC I had wished there was a way to reject the choices which caused what I said in a post above-a kind of error in the kid's coding that might drop the reaper's shields and allow for conventional warfare.  I think many of us discussed similar things and ways we wished this would happen.  People even talked about having geth float out airlocks and board reapers to shut them down.

#2766
BlueStorm83

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The Twilight God wrote...

*Quotes Snipped Out*

With Haastrom and the dark matter stuff in mind I actually though that's what the ending was. That it would kill our sun to power the Crucible and then pull a Stargate SG1. In the episode "The Reconning" a signal was sent thru the entire gate system to destroy all the collectors in the galaxy. I knew the citadel would be moved based on pre-release screenshots. I just though the crucible would fit within the arms.

A poster above mention a destroy crucible/catalyst ending. I added that their reaper shields should go down ala soveriegn and the fleet could fight them conventionally and win with a high EMS. Since most where in earth orbit to protect the Catalyst the other planets could win their fights too or at least we'd know the other reapers would be wittled down in time. and of course Joker and EDI could punch a hole thru Harbinger. "Tell Soveriegn I said hello, beotch!"


You mean killed all the Replicators.  The Collectors are Mass Effect 2, lawl.  But yeah, I remember that, the Ancient device on that planet that the Jaffa eventually made their government HQ.  It never occurred to me, but that's yet ANOTHER ending that BioWare "appropriated" for Mass Effect.  Turn on the magical ancient device and it kills all the bad bad robots by using the stargat- I mean "Mass Relays" to transmit an energy pulse across the entire galaxy.  WOW.  And when Mass Effect 1 first came out, one negative review I read of it said "The Mass Relays are just ripoffs of Stargates!"  I actually went to bat and said, "No they're not, they're completely different!"  Well, guess I was a TREMENDOUS JACKASS now.

#2767
BlueStorm83

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ElementL09 wrote...

Question, why is there just a beam on Earth when there are Reaper forces on multiple planets?

Also, why is it when we get to the beam and get beamed up there are only human bodies? Surely there have been other races on the Planet or other races in general that get beamed up into the Citadel.


Nah, they're just gathering Humies to make another Pointless Transformer- I mean, another Human Reaper.  But as soon as that possibility is introduced, it's IMMEDIATELY dropped, because it's time to meet Glowy McStorykiller!

#2768
3DandBeyond

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ElementL09 wrote...

Question, why is there just a beam on Earth when there are Reaper forces on multiple planets?

Also, why is it when we get to the beam and get beamed up there are only human bodies? Surely there have been other races on the Planet or other races in general that get beamed up into the Citadel.


All very good questions.  Well, ME3 is a really Earth-centric game-why, I don't know.

But some theories as to this.  There seems to be a real obsession with humans as evidenced in ME2, but never fully explained.  The Collectors are searching for humans with genetic mutations and raiding only human colonies.  Why is never fully explained other than to say that humans are seen as they most advanced organics this cycle.

I will theorize that for some reason the reapers were looking or are always looking for the most diverse species primarily.  Humans are said by Mordin to be the most diverse genetically.  Shepard thinks the Asari are but Mordin explains why that's not so.  In fact, the lack of diversity for them may be one other reason why the Asari look for partners of other species (that and the Ardat Yakshi problem).

So, what could have been some really awesome exploration and all about why they seek humans especially and why only the most advanced is just left to the wind to answer.  Since a lot in the game pointed more to the reapers harvesting people for "food" of a sort (energy through intelligence), maybe humans just make for a better sandwich.

#2769
3DandBeyond

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

Question, why is there just a beam on Earth when there are Reaper forces on multiple planets?

Also, why is it when we get to the beam and get beamed up there are only human bodies? Surely there have been other races on the Planet or other races in general that get beamed up into the Citadel.


Nah, they're just gathering Humies to make another Pointless Transformer- I mean, another Human Reaper.  But as soon as that possibility is introduced, it's IMMEDIATELY dropped, because it's time to meet Glowy McStorykiller!


Whenever I think of that human reaper I have to laugh-can you imagine one running around on a planet or flying in space?

#2770
The Twilight God

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3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

ElementL09 wrote...

Question, why is there just a beam on Earth when there are Reaper forces on multiple planets?

Also, why is it when we get to the beam and get beamed up there are only human bodies? Surely there have been other races on the Planet or other races in general that get beamed up into the Citadel.


Nah, they're just gathering Humies to make another Pointless Transformer- I mean, another Human Reaper.  But as soon as that possibility is introduced, it's IMMEDIATELY dropped, because it's time to meet Glowy McStorykiller!


Whenever I think of that human reaper I have to laugh-can you imagine one running around on a planet or flying in space?


@ElementL09

The Citadel could function as a processing station. My assumption was that the Reapers put that conduit there when they brought the Citadel to Earth. There is only one citadel so that's why Earth had one.

@3DandBeyond

According to the artwork, the human shaped part is inside the cuddlefish shell. Each reaper has a terminator inside them that look slike the harvested race. Except Harbinger whose race actually were gigantic cuddlefish. How a giant cuddlefish race had the dexterity to build anything is beyond me, but if the hanar can do it...
 
...Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm-magic!!!Posted Image

#2771
Dublinguy65

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Just finished EC and was blown away! Thank you BioWare for doing this. It was so much more satisfying this time and was happy Joker didn't look like a coward in the end! Woot!

#2772
Changshan88

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Hm, 1.9GB, I expected a bit more material but that's probably because I only saw the refuse ending and the destroy ending - by the way, what a ****ty autosave when I by accidence chose the refuse ending... Had to do a whole lot over again before seeing my preferred ending. On the whole this extended cut is... better, but I'm still missing the following:

- That beautiful extended dialogue (director's cut) with Anderson, talking about dreamt-of futures... why not just implement it in the game? Now it's just a bit too short for a goodbye to our big friend Anderson...
- Still no talk about Shepard's profound friendships with the Geth and EDI, not even a bit on how synthesis should be an option for later. Something like this: "We're still not ready to be merged, but both synthetics and organics are willing to talk about it now, so we'll get there and in the meantime, dear Catalyst, we could choose your destroy option without using the crucible, thus without murdering innocents." Although I have to say the voice-over speech gives me hope regarding cooperation with future AI's. We'll see if the saga continues with a fourth chapter, that obviously will start with the destroy ending, where Shepard's still breathing (the only ending with a cliff hanger).

Modifié par Changshan88, 08 juillet 2012 - 03:40 .


#2773
Changshan88

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Oh by the way, why did we have to start before Cerberus base again? Is probably discussed earlier in this thread, but wanted to have said that too... nothing significant changes until the very last minutes of the game.

#2774
Archonsg

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Changshan88 wrote...

Oh by the way, why did we have to start before Cerberus base again? Is probably discussed earlier in this thread, but wanted to have said that too... nothing significant changes until the very last minutes of the game.


There were some visual lore changes.
For example, I destroyed the collector's base in ME2, on the original run, the Reaper larva was shown as mostly intact. Full face, eyes, arms, the works. In the ECDLC, the larva was properly trashed.
That had always kinda bothered me originally, since not only we "cained" its arse back to darkspace but also blew up the base. 

Now at least, it allowed the assumption that Cerberus went in, salvaged and somehow managed to put together what was left of the Larva. 

And yes, I do think that the work on the EC was astoundly good, given what they had to work with and the constraints left to the team by Walters and Hudson. 
Details both spoken and visual are "right" for the most part, sans when they had to go in deep into the Space Magic pool, but I put that squarely on the shoulders of those whom came up with the screwed up original ending in the first place. 

Modifié par Archonsg, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:44 .


#2775
pgharavi

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Question: In the very last Paragon/Renegade dialog tree of the game (where you have a possibility to convince the Illusive Man to shoot himself, whether blue or red), those options are NOW grayed out (I cannot choose them, under ANY ending possibility, whereas prior to the Extended Cut, I always had that option.

Anyone know why? Thanks!

Alos, loved the Extended Cut version of the Synthesis ending.