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Extended Cut: SPOILER Discussion


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#2826
The Twilight God

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DOYOURLABS wrote...

Is there new scenes for Jack if romanced?


Pfft, of course not.

ME2 characters didn't really have a relationship. Just ultimately meaningless flings. No holomessages to each other throughout the game. No surprise visits to the Normandy (which could have occurred before the final push to earth or before taking on Cerberus HQ). I'd have loved to bring Jack (or even Aria so she could kill Kai Leng) to Cerberus HQ. For Jack, just somes kisses during Grissom mission, kiss in the Purgatory and a brief holomessage at the very end which plays very casually.

Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Tali and Garrus are the only real romances available. I'd assume Cortez/Traynor would make a better romance option than characters introduced in ME2.

#2827
vitae-vixi

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I just finished the EC (couldn't before because of work commitments).

...

Oh God why did you do this to us?!

I appreciate the breath scene after destroy still being there, I really do - but no body knows she's alive? MY LI is putting her name on the wall? They don't know she's alive but know that all those other people are dead?

What's going on here?

Now aside from that, the catalyst managed to become even more non-nonsensical and paradoxical.

... that is all. I am saddened.

How can you break things more when trying to unbreak them?

Modifié par vitae-vixi, 08 juillet 2012 - 07:38 .


#2828
Urdnot Amenark

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I feel like this is the ending we should've had in the first place. Of course, after all the controversy, people are going to scrutinize the hell out of it, but I was mostly satisfied with it, apart from the lack of animations for the stills - beautifully drawn, but awkward in a game heavy on dramatics. Having four endings instead of three is a slight improvement - six would have been nice - but I enjoyed how they cleared up the biggest issues surrounding the ending.

#2829
chevyguy87

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@Bluestorm83

I quite like your ideas for those DLC packs. As for the Leviathan DLC I would definitely be interested in learning more about the Reapers, their creation, existence, history etc. I also wouldn't mind if this would be a precursor to a possible different ending entirely. (We may finally be able to tell Glow Stick to go f*ck himself without losing the war)

I am not sure how I feel about additional DLC content. It's not going to change the end of the game (as far as I know anyway) so why go through the trouble. Although I'm not gonna lie seeing Leviathan and Harbinger having a good ol' fashioned standoff would be pretty epic since we still do not know what happens to Harbinger. I mean Bioware built him up to be the untimate antagonist but he got punked at the end and "presumably" died like the other Reapers or with Control and Synthesis cleaned up and started reading stories to children in kindergarten and started giving piggy back rides. 

I just do not know, the ending debacle has left a lasting sour taste in my mouth and I doubt recruiting a Reaper to join our cause will be enough to wash the taste away since we cannot change the outcome regardless. Who knows, time is the healer of all wounds, but who knows.

Modifié par chevyguy87, 08 juillet 2012 - 09:32 .


#2830
FreddyCast

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Watsup guys, I'm back.
Both parts to my two part "Indoctrination Theory- ME3 Extended Cut DLC Analysis" is up and running on youtube.
Please feel free to share your thoughts and criticisms. And EnjoyPosted Image
Part 1

Part 2


#2831
Shepard108278

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The Twilight God wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Is there new scenes for Jack if romanced?


Pfft, of course not.

ME2 characters didn't really have a relationship. Just ultimately meaningless flings. No holomessages to each other throughout the game. No surprise visits to the Normandy (which could have occurred before the final push to earth or before taking on Cerberus HQ). I'd have loved to bring Jack (or even Aria so she could kill Kai Leng) to Cerberus HQ. For Jack, just somes kisses during Grissom mission, kiss in the Purgatory and a brief holomessage at the very end which plays very casually.

Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Tali and Garrus are the only real romances available. I'd assume Cortez/Traynor would make a better romance option than characters introduced in ME2.

You forgot Miranda that's a nice scene IMO and Jack's was handled nicely IMO though I would have liked a love scene.

#2832
Shepard108278

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vitae-vixi wrote...

I just finished the EC (couldn't before because of work commitments).

...

Oh God why did you do this to us?!

I appreciate the breath scene after destroy still being there, I really do - but no body knows she's alive? MY LI is putting her name on the wall? They don't know she's alive but know that all those other people are dead?

What's going on here?

Now aside from that, the catalyst managed to become even more non-nonsensical and paradoxical.

... that is all. I am saddened.

How can you break things more when trying to unbreak them?

I couldn't disagree more. For one I didn't think it was broken in the first place just a tad rushed the EC fixed that IMO. Great ending to a great series.

#2833
chevyguy87

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Shepard108278 wrote...

I couldn't disagree more. For one I didn't think it was broken in the first place just a tad rushed the EC fixed that IMO. Great ending to a great series.


Look at the endings of ME1 & ME2 and compare those to the ending(s) of ME3 and you will see that ME3 was and still is broken, maybe fractured now after the EC. 

I look at it this way the EC is the square peg and the rest of the trilogy is the round hole, when you put two and two together, they don't fit, now the Catalyst on the other hand is the triangle peg, it doesn't fit either. No matter how hard you try you cannot get the pegs to fit. In my opinion as long as Bioware keeps Glow Stick boy, the ending will simply never fit in with the rest of the series and attemping to work around it (which is what the EC does) simply doesn't fit either. 

Modifié par chevyguy87, 08 juillet 2012 - 09:56 .


#2834
JustKnowz

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I believe EC DLC should've been included in the original game... a lot of headaches would have been avoided by both Bioware and US (the fans). I've read a lot of good points here in favor of Destroy and Control... after the EC... I chose Synthesis. Here's why:

- Evolution is inevitable,, be it via Crucible or vis how many more hundreds of thousands of years of "harvesting" by the Reapers.. we'll get there sooner or later.

- I've read opinions on choosing Synthesis as an indoctrinated choice... I disagree. Control seems more like a tyrannical, indoctrinated choice. The Geth used the Reaper Code and "evolved" and actually stopped using "consensus"--- they became unique individuals (i.e, Legion said "I" must return to them (geth)... no longer using "we")

- I think people are creeped out by the glowing eyes and "circuit-skin"... but after reaching that level of enlightment... that's probably irrelevant. Besides, we all got the glowing eyes! So we are equally creepy :D LOL

- Why deny knowledge of the past to all? When it can be shared and used. I dont think this is a utopian state... with this much intelligence there are bound to be disagreements-- but I think there will be much more civil ways to disagree. Who knows.

WITH THIS.... I lay down this game as a satisfied customer... sure.. I wanted a final showdown with Harbinger using the targeting system to blast his a** to kingdom come. Yeah, I wanted to get a homecoming ceremony a la Star Trek for Capt Kirk and retire to Thessia and have blue baby Shepards (how cool is that?) But the endings provided here--- are good for the story that wanted to be told by the authors (bad job to you guys for sending an UNFINISHED game out in the market)

I will be waiting for the next ME game, although I may not be getting it on opening night, but with reluctance-- I'll follow, maybe :D

#2835
The Twilight God

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Shepard108278 wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Is there new scenes for Jack if romanced?


Pfft, of course not.

ME2 characters didn't really have a relationship. Just ultimately meaningless flings. No holomessages to each other throughout the game. No surprise visits to the Normandy (which could have occurred before the final push to earth or before taking on Cerberus HQ). I'd have loved to bring Jack (or even Aria so she could kill Kai Leng) to Cerberus HQ. For Jack, just somes kisses during Grissom mission, kiss in the Purgatory and a brief holomessage at the very end which plays very casually.

Ashley/Kaidan, Liara, Tali and Garrus are the only real romances available. I'd assume Cortez/Traynor would make a better romance option than characters introduced in ME2.

You forgot Miranda that's a nice scene IMO and Jack's was handled nicely IMO though I would have liked a love scene.


Thing is all the fleets came together. Jack and Miranda didn't just teleport to Earth. They arrived with the fleets and should have came onboard the Normandy. Hackett does.

Question: If a femshep romances Jacob its just over, right? I assume he still gets that scientist lady pregnant?

#2836
Pinax

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Gosh, I am so happy for all the people satisfied with the EC and the current endings - actually I envy!
I feel like after a hard break up.

One of the few things that makes me aww is the fact that the unsatisfaction that came from the endings resulted in an explosion of amazing and really very good quality fan fiction - this is just great not only to see how many people share the same feelings, but also how constructive and creative they can be, thumbs up! What is actually quite funny is that very often the fan-fic on ME3 ending is much more coherent and in line with the lore of the game than the original BW endings.

I really appreciate BW did the EC to respond to the fans complaints, I appreciate this was free to download and even contained the Refusal option. Unfortunately, this is the same appreciation I have for having a horrible gift from a person I barely know: "Well... Thanks, that's kind! (...but I think you are not aware I will do my best to get rid of it in the nearest occasion)".
I love BW for what they did: Baldur's gate will always have a place in my heart, DA:O took me few months of my life when I was constantly re-playing and enjoying this game, SWTOR is a wonderful experience where I also had a chance to meet amazing people, KOTOR and Jade Empire are being played. But it was Mass Effect trilogy which has been the top candidate to The Game Of My Life title. Yet, this has been broken, it turned up it should be "only a game" - play and go! Although I am really sorry and sad, but no more credit to the company, no more pre-orders, no DLCs, no trust in a single pre-release interview or a journalist press review.

#2837
pgharavi

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

pgharavi wrote...

Question:

In the very last Paragon/Renegade dialog tree of the game (where you have a possibility to convince the Illusive Man to shoot himself, whether blue or red), those options are NOW grayed out (I cannot choose them, under ANY ending possibility, whereas prior to the Extended Cut, I always had that option.


I didn't have this problem when I went through again.  That's actually really odd, and you should check the bug report threads, and see if they know about it.


Ok, thanks.  Will do.

#2838
3DandBeyond

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vitae-vixi wrote...

I just finished the EC (couldn't before because of work commitments).

...

Oh God why did you do this to us?!

I appreciate the breath scene after destroy still being there, I really do - but no body knows she's alive? MY LI is putting her name on the wall? They don't know she's alive but know that all those other people are dead?

What's going on here?

Now aside from that, the catalyst managed to become even more non-nonsensical and paradoxical.

... that is all. I am saddened.

How can you break things more when trying to unbreak them?


My feelings exactly-worse than before.  Glad at least they didn't kill Shepard in all the endings, but endings are a worse mess than before except they look and sound better.

A lot of people tend to think it's just swell for a this game to make you imagine the "happy" ending, but a lot of people don't think that's ok.

One face to face where Shepard sees that his/her LI and teammates are alive and vice versa-was that so difficult?  Apparently, that was about as hard as making a really decent ending, one that the game so deserved.  Bioware needs to relinquish control of this series and let real fans fix the ending.  There's even a Star Trek: TNG writer who has offered to help them make a better ending.

#2839
3DandBeyond

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The Twilight God wrote...

Thing is all the fleets came together. Jack and Miranda didn't just teleport to Earth. They arrived with the fleets and should have came onboard the Normandy. Hackett does.

Question: If a femshep romances Jacob its just over, right? I assume he still gets that scientist lady pregnant?


Since I've only ever gotten to the end with Liara and Kaidan as LIs, I honestly don't know about anyone else.  So, here's a stupid question--if you romance Jack or Miranda, who puts Shepard's name on the wall?  NVM-I found a vid where Liara did it for a Miranda LI.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 juillet 2012 - 12:06 .


#2840
3DandBeyond

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JustKnowz wrote...

I believe EC DLC should've been included in the original game... a lot of headaches would have been avoided by both Bioware and US (the fans). I've read a lot of good points here in favor of Destroy and Control... after the EC... I chose Synthesis. Here's why:

- Evolution is inevitable,, be it via Crucible or vis how many more hundreds of thousands of years of "harvesting" by the Reapers.. we'll get there sooner or later.

- I've read opinions on choosing Synthesis as an indoctrinated choice... I disagree. Control seems more like a tyrannical, indoctrinated choice. The Geth used the Reaper Code and "evolved" and actually stopped using "consensus"--- they became unique individuals (i.e, Legion said "I" must return to them (geth)... no longer using "we")

- I think people are creeped out by the glowing eyes and "circuit-skin"... but after reaching that level of enlightment... that's probably irrelevant. Besides, we all got the glowing eyes! So we are equally creepy :D LOL

- Why deny knowledge of the past to all? When it can be shared and used. I dont think this is a utopian state... with this much intelligence there are bound to be disagreements-- but I think there will be much more civil ways to disagree. Who knows.

WITH THIS.... I lay down this game as a satisfied customer... sure.. I wanted a final showdown with Harbinger using the targeting system to blast his a** to kingdom come. Yeah, I wanted to get a homecoming ceremony a la Star Trek for Capt Kirk and retire to Thessia and have blue baby Shepards (how cool is that?) But the endings provided here--- are good for the story that wanted to be told by the authors (bad job to you guys for sending an UNFINISHED game out in the market)

I will be waiting for the next ME game, although I may not be getting it on opening night, but with reluctance-- I'll follow, maybe :D




No, if this was the original ending it would still be flawed because it is basically the same ending with a coat of paint and lots more words.  Glad you liked it, but Casey Hudson said the endings weren't fundamentally changed and they weren't.  They just look and sound cool now, but not in my opinion. 

All choices must be meta-gamed.  No way Shepard would trust the kid is being truthful and since he's even crazier in the EC, his explanations more wild and non-sensical, he's even less credible.  Given even the things that he most likely is being truthful about he is totally insane for an AI.

In what perverse universe do you actually think all life is going to just evolve and unite organic and synthetic beings into basically one new life.  And not by the reapers certainly.  The star kid says he can't do it, it can't be forced. But that's crazy because the only way to do it (synthesis) is to force it.  I don't care if people have butterflies coming out their mouths or if they are not green eyed with green circuit boards under their skin.  If even one person would not want this done to them it is an assault being done by Shepard.  And there were people in ME that did not even want implants of any kind.

Why give everyone instant knowledge?  Gee, when in the game has there ever been a problem with advancing people beyond what is natural and what they "deserve" and are ready to advance to?  Only repeatedly.  The Rachni were advanced by the Protheans in order to become more warlike.  The Krogan were advanced in order to deal with the Rachni and Mordin says some very interesting things about how wrong that and synthesis are.

Synthesis also raises questions of immortality (what happens when the population explodes) and many other things that are not answered.  It is also the star kid's choice.

Control is similar to synthesis but instead of having some internal change to force people to develop a certain way, it uses the physical presence of the reapers to do so.  Shepard is no more-Shepard was more than just intelligence and thought, but also emotion, caring, and all those things that help keep intelligence in line with what the heart and soul know. 

Control and Synthesis both deny people the right and ability to decide the path they will take.  Evolution is not an end state, it is a process of growth that isn't only physical but is also something less tangible.  You appreciate what you learn on your own far more than what someone tells you.  Really look back at what Mordin says in ME2 about the Collectors.

Destroy isn't really any better than either of those-it forces Shepard to kill the best examples of why the kid is wrong.  It's the only choice that lets people free to make their own way into the future-to succeed and fail on their own, and to grow, but it's also genocide.  It is however the only thing Shepard was ordered to do and was given permission to do.

But, all choices are based on the kid telling the truth.

Refuse is a real non-choice and a middle finger to fans by Bioware.  So there still is no good choice for the ending and the idea of these artificially inserted choices and the never-before-mentioned starkid is as repugnant as ever.  IMO. 

#2841
Master Alenko

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vitae-vixi wrote...

I just finished the EC (couldn't before because of work commitments).

...

Oh God why did you do this to us?!

I appreciate the breath scene after destroy still being there, I really do - but no body knows she's alive? MY LI is putting her name on the wall? They don't know she's alive but know that all those other people are dead?

What's going on here?

Now aside from that, the catalyst managed to become even more non-nonsensical and paradoxical.

... that is all. I am saddened.

How can you break things more when trying to unbreak them?

Actually if you look at the control and synthesis endings Shepard dies no matter what and the LI puts the name on the wall without hesitiation. But on destroy ending were you can have him take a breath, the LI hesitates and then looks up and smiles a bit as if "I'm not prepared to believe he/she is dead." and with the final scene confirming it if your EMS is high enough your LI was right. So I don't think your LI actually puts the name on the wall on live/destroy.

I hope I explained that clearly. :D

#2842
chevyguy87

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3DandBeyond wrote...

A lot of people tend to think it's just swell for a this game to make you imagine the "happy" ending, but a lot of people don't think that's ok.


Very much this, I did not spend the time and the money that I did to end my favorite game series in my head, to me that is the cheapest and laziest way to end a game. 

#2843
The Twilight God

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3DandBeyond wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Thing is all the fleets came together. Jack and Miranda didn't just teleport to Earth. They arrived with the fleets and should have came onboard the Normandy. Hackett does.

Question: If a femshep romances Jacob its just over, right? I assume he still gets that scientist lady pregnant?


Since I've only ever gotten to the end with Liara and Kaidan as LIs, I honestly don't know about anyone else.  So, here's a stupid question--if you romance Jack or Miranda, who puts Shepard's name on the wall?  NVM-I found a vid where Liara did it for a Miranda LI.


The ME2 romances aren't important enough. Now if the Normady stayed in Sol with the rest of the fleet Miranda and Jack.. and Wrex.Grunt, Samara, etc could have all been there. But, oh noes!! They have to magically get teleported to some random jungle planet that serves no purpose whatsoever with no way to get back since the relays don't work anymore. Must be the same way Wrex and Grunt teleport back to Tuchanka because they sure didn't use the relays.

#2844
3DandBeyond

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The Twilight God wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Thing is all the fleets came together. Jack and Miranda didn't just teleport to Earth. They arrived with the fleets and should have came onboard the Normandy. Hackett does.

Question: If a femshep romances Jacob its just over, right? I assume he still gets that scientist lady pregnant?


Since I've only ever gotten to the end with Liara and Kaidan as LIs, I honestly don't know about anyone else.  So, here's a stupid question--if you romance Jack or Miranda, who puts Shepard's name on the wall?  NVM-I found a vid where Liara did it for a Miranda LI.


The ME2 romances aren't important enough. Now if the Normady stayed in Sol with the rest of the fleet Miranda and Jack.. and Wrex.Grunt, Samara, etc could have all been there. But, oh noes!! They have to magically get teleported to some random jungle planet that serves no purpose whatsoever with no way to get back since the relays don't work anymore. Must be the same way Wrex and Grunt teleport back to Tuchanka because they sure didn't use the relays.


This is one of my biggest gripes with the whole series.  It seems they took a rather casual approach to love interests except in certain cases.  They are so forceful in stating that nothing is canon in the game so LIs aren't and that's really kind of BS.  The games are clearly unfair to someone who romanced someone other than Liara in ME1 or again to someone who romanced certain people in ME2.  I also think they really kind of did the same to Liara in ME2, but you can always get the LotSB DLC-she just isn't a paramour and is there and then gone once you finish her story.  At least though for those who like Liara she is there.

The ME2 characters are really treated pretty badly in ME3.  Some have some great missions, but some were really odd and then there's Thane, one of my alltime favorite characters.  Yes, he was sick.  Still I really liked him.  The problem is ME3 is clearly a game that has some awesome parts, but has some other things that show it was really slapped together.  The beginning is pretty bad.  The reaper tag missions are way worse than scanning for Eezo.  War Assets numbers are meaningless.  I have promoted some MP classes so my N7 assets are like 1600, but some whole fleets are less than half that amount.  That whole thing seems so randomly put together.

#2845
Iakus

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chevyguy87 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

A lot of people tend to think it's just swell for a this game to make you imagine the "happy" ending, but a lot of people don't think that's ok.


Very much this, I did not spend the time and the money that I did to end my favorite game series in my head, to me that is the cheapest and laziest way to end a game. 


QFT

#2846
lukandroll

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3DandBeyond wrote...

One face to face where Shepard sees that his/her LI and teammates are alive and vice versa-was that so difficult?  Apparently, that was about as hard as making a really decent ending, one that the game so deserved


So making the ending as cheesy and cliche as you mention would make you happy?

Oh snap, I get it now, your are a hollywood screenwriter

#2847
KiganMatsuei

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lukandroll wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

One face to face where Shepard sees that his/her LI and teammates are alive and vice versa-was that so difficult?  Apparently, that was about as hard as making a really decent ending, one that the game so deserved


So making the ending as cheesy and cliche as you mention would make you happy?

Oh snap, I get it now, your are a hollywood screenwriter


All many of us want is the OPTION - even if only ONE - where that is a possibility. There should certainly remain options where failure happens and Shepard dies. They did it before, they could have done it again.

Well, we want that and for the plot holes to be fixed and over all ending to the story to be of ME1 and ME2 quality. But unless they realize any DLC must have an effect on the ending for it to be worth buying, we aren't likely to get that either.

Modifié par KiganMatsuei, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:57 .


#2848
Iakus

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lukandroll wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

One face to face where Shepard sees that his/her LI and teammates are alive and vice versa-was that so difficult?  Apparently, that was about as hard as making a really decent ending, one that the game so deserved


So making the ending as cheesy and cliche as you mention would make you happy?

Oh snap, I get it now, your are a hollywood screenwriter


Not sure if serious...

#2849
BlueStorm83

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lukandroll wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

One face to face where Shepard sees that his/her LI and teammates are alive and vice versa-was that so difficult?  Apparently, that was about as hard as making a really decent ending, one that the game so deserved


So making the ending as cheesy and cliche as you mention would make you happy?

Oh snap, I get it now, your are a hollywood screenwriter


Because nobody wants a videogame that you can win, right?

#2850
SirGladiator

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Obviously a genuinely happy ending is all we want. It doesnt really matter how many bad endings there are, so long as there is a way to have a really happy ending. Thats the bottom line, its just that simple.