4048 réponses à ce sujet

[a9fc]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

The Crucible is based on Prothean Technology... which is based on the guys who came before them... which is based on the guys before them... which was based on the guys before THEM... and continue this onward until we get back to some really really long ago race. And those guys are probably a Reaper now. It's all Reapers. From beginning to end, Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper, nobody can beat the Reapers. Reapers always win.

To say that the crucible is based on prothean technology suggests that they started it.

No. The Prothean VI from Thessia specifically stated that it started so many cycles ago that it was hard to trace it's origin.

The protheans added to the puzzle. So a part of it is prothean, yes (but 1%? 10%? 0.1% nobody knows).

It's a creation by the organics. Even the protheans couldn't tell when the catalyst was factored into the puzzle.

[The Twilight God]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

The Crucible is'nt based on Prothean technology. That is what Jarvik tells Shepard and Liara. If I remember correctly.

Each race was supposed to have made there own take on the design. Except humans... who couldn't have adding their own touch beside superfical component materials as they didn't even know what the hell it would do.

The Crucible was handled very badly. The way it was introduced was bad enough, but they could have made it alittle better.  http://social.biowar...059625#13059646

Modifié par The Twilight God, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:16 .

[Voodoo2015]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

The Crucible is based on Prothean Technology... which is based on the guys who came before them... which is based on the guys before them... which was based on the guys before THEM... and continue this onward until we get back to some really really long ago race. And those guys are probably a Reaper now. It's all Reapers. From beginning to end, Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper, nobody can beat the Reapers. Reapers always win.

Hey man don't fear of The Reapers.

They're just a little spoiled child. Just send it to it's room. No TV and no candy for 50000 years.

[Voodoo2015]

The Twilight God wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

The Crucible is'nt based on Prothean technology. That is what Jarvik tells Shepard and Liara. If I remember correctly.

Each race was supposed to have made there own take on the design. Except humans... who couldn't have adding their own touch beside superfical component materials as they didn't even know what the hell it would do.

The Crucible was handled very badly. The way it was introduced was bad enough, but they could have made it alittle better.  http://social.biowar...059625#13059646

 Realizing it a bit late, just wrote what poped up in my head.
However, thanks

This is why you should think before typing.

Modifié par Voodoo2015, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[3DandBeyond]

a9fc wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

The Crucible is based on Prothean Technology... which is based on the guys who came before them... which is based on the guys before them... which was based on the guys before THEM... and continue this onward until we get back to some really really long ago race. And those guys are probably a Reaper now. It's all Reapers. From beginning to end, Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper, nobody can beat the Reapers. Reapers always win.

To say that the crucible is based on prothean technology suggests that they started it.

No. The Prothean VI from Thessia specifically stated that it started so many cycles ago that it was hard to trace it's origin.

The protheans added to the puzzle. So a part of it is prothean, yes (but 1%? 10%? 0.1% nobody knows).

It's a creation by the organics. Even the protheans couldn't tell when the catalyst was factored into the puzzle.

Uh, you missed what he said - clearly you missed it.  He said based on prothean tech which was based on tech before that and based on tech before that and so on and on and on.  He never suggested the protheans started it-what he is saying is that everything is built ultimately upon reaper tech.  You may look far enough back and get to that or look as near to you as the closest relay or the citadel and you are looking at reaper tech.  The keeprs, your implants, everything.  So to ultimately place your trust and faith and future on plans of an uncertain, but almost certain origin means people of the galaxy are exactly as stupid as the kid says they are.

Every single bit of tech is based upon reaper tech, so it is completely unthinkable and unreasonable to then believe the crucible is anything other than some giant galaxy suppository with some instant everybody's harvested juice inside.  Bend over and kiss the galaxy goodbye.

You have only to pick a choice to see just how stupid the writers think people are.  It's way cool to be Shepard god-who gives a rat's ass if it doesn't fit into the story or the character of Shepard-it looks and sounds cool.  It means people can't be trusted to do anything themselves and people won't know Shepard is the reaper commander so I'd think fear would run wild for a long time, but who cares, it looks cool.

Synthesis is forced on people without consent-that's assault.  But even if it weren't it's what the kid says he wants and he backs it up with some genuine stupidity.  People need to be artificially augmented because they are idiots and have no value as is.  They need to be made smart because they otherwise won't be or they will be because evolution will eventually lead to organic beings becoming part synthetic.  Really?  Yeah, and someday I will wash dishes in my mouth because nature always works to combine manmade things with things that occur naturally.  But it's all for perfection through tech.  Just how low can the stupid meter go?  Cool green eyes, yay.

Destroy-great we get to achieve the goal.  But weeeee, let's kill the people that best refute all that the kid says-EDI and the geth.  And because we've been so selfish, Shepard gets to end up as garbage in a pile of rubble, faceless and gasping.  That is way cool.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:47 .

[Thore2k10]

3DandBeyond wrote...


Destroy-great we get to achieve the goal.  But weeeee, let's kill the people that best refute all that the kid says-EDI and the geth.  And because we've been so selfish, Shepard gets to end up as garbage in a pile of rubble, faceless and gasping.  That is way cool.

no, not cool, thats art!

[BlueStorm83]

a9fc wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

The Crucible is based on Prothean Technology... which is based on the guys who came before them... which is based on the guys before them... which was based on the guys before THEM... and continue this onward until we get back to some really really long ago race. And those guys are probably a Reaper now. It's all Reapers. From beginning to end, Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper, nobody can beat the Reapers. Reapers always win.

To say that the crucible is based on prothean technology suggests that they started it.

No. The Prothean VI from Thessia specifically stated that it started so many cycles ago that it was hard to trace it's origin.

The protheans added to the puzzle. So a part of it is prothean, yes (but 1%? 10%? 0.1% nobody knows).

It's a creation by the organics. Even the protheans couldn't tell when the catalyst was factored into the puzzle.

---  It's a creation of organics, alright.  We know that because we were told it by our SUPER trustworthy BFF, the Catalyst, who we all believe and love SO much.

My only point about it is that the Crucible isn't really based on ANYTHING at all, since EVERY big question about it is eventually answered by "I don't know, whatever, **** you."

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...


Destroy-great we get to achieve the goal.  But weeeee, let's kill the people that best refute all that the kid says-EDI and the geth.  And because we've been so selfish, Shepard gets to end up as garbage in a pile of rubble, faceless and gasping.  That is way cool.

don't question EA/Bioware's art lol  

[tg0618]

3DandBeyond wrote...
Your suggestions here bear out the core of what is so wrong at the end.  For some reason people that said they loved this story chose to act like they never cared about it at all.  This actually may be some form of not so subtle sabotage.  I can find no other way to explain how thoroughly they trashed all the things that made ME great and all that they abandoned in making the ending.

I so appreciate the honesty of a poster above that I had a bit of a discussion with.  He (or she) freely admits that ME1 and ME2 didn't matter in playing ME3 and this person won't debate the merits of the ME3 ending in any context with the rest of the story. 

I assume you are talking about me. If not then let me apollogize in advance.

First, I don't LOVE the ending, the first thing I said was that "while not perfect, I liked it." Do I wish we had a better ending? Or even a different ending? Sure. But in regards to my questions and complaints concerning the ending they got answered and addressed.

Second, if you were, infact talking about me then, thank you, I always try to be honest with myself and other I'm talking, or posting, with. And it's awlays nice to see that be appreciated.

Third, however I feel that, my points and/or views came across wrong, due to me being tired after work most likely.  I didn't mean that ME1 and ME2 didn't matter in playing ME3. Now that I'm refreshed, let me try to explain my veiws a little better. With the probability of a ME4 (at least they are hinting at it) various unresolved plots (such as Haestrom's star, as we discussed) could be adressed in future ME games. However while I too want them to be resolved, I personally did not feel it really needed for the overall importance of the Reaper story.

3DandBeyond wrote...
It answers only the questions that were raised in the original endings. This is something that those of us that have really looked at the endings past the great sounding speeches, the new graphics, the added dialogue, and the slideshows have been trying to say and only one poster so far has admitted this is true. He doesn't care about the previous games.

Fourth, once again if you are not talking about me then I apollogize, but I care very deeply about the other 2 ME games, hell Mass Effect 1 got me into the whole sci-fi genre, I'm talking now I watch Star Trek (on netflix), any kind of universe documentary, anything space related, when before I was never really interested in any sci-fi, I have all the ME books (except Deception) and a couple of the comics, not all, unfortunately due to lack of funds and now I can't find them at my local comic shop. In short I care very much about the previous 2 games, I care very much about all 3 ME games to be honest. I just have faith that if and when future ME games or perhaps even DLC come out that they (Bioware) will hopefully answer those other plotlines. But if not then, while sad, it will not be then end of any ME dlc or games for me. As I posted earlier, loose plotlines that don't get resolved right away is fairly heavy in comics so maybe I'm used to it.

Modifié par Tony0618, 12 juillet 2012 - 09:08 .

[luaggy]

Finally finished playthrough with EC (work comitments) i have to say i still feel left with a bitter taste in my mouth. i tried all four endings and was amazed at how close they came with the refuse ending but ultimately decided the galaxy should end with a whimper. personnally if i had, had a hand in the creation i would of done something like this

end of refuse ending.
catalyst " so be it... the cycle continues
shepard " no.... it won't (raises hand to ear) all ships fire on the citadel repeat all ships fire on the citadel
              scene cuts to hackett
Hackett (breif pause) you heard that order fire on the citdel.... take it down
         
scene shows multiple ships turn their guns from the reapers and concentrate fire at the citadel.scene moves back to citadel to see shepard limp towards the open view. catalsyt reappears

catalyst "it won't last, you may destroy me but history always repeats itself.. you will create and they in turn will rebel... the cycle will eventually begin again
shepard " maybe... but that'll be our choice
        
           catalyst fades, shepard tightens in pain, cluthing his/her wound & collapes to the floor.

From here EMS, GR could of come into play, a weak rating and the reapers over power the smaller allied force. scene show liara's message about their cycle ending.
a high EMS, GR and scene shows a stronger force shower the citadel with weapon fire until an implosion then explostion errupts. a sonic wave as seen in other endings begins to take down reapers and then we see biowares relay destructions, troops cheering on various planets and normandys bizarre lets fly somewhere for no real reason while out running a destructive beam endings aswell as EC endings.
But a vey high EMS & GR and we could of had shepard collapse to floor. scene moves to normandy

Joker (pause)" screw it" (rapidly runs fingers over console) normandy breaks rank moves towards citadel
hackett (voice over comm) normandy pull back repeat pull back
joker "sorry sir but shepards done the same for us.... time we repayed the favour
hackett "godspeed normandy
voice on comm "your not alone normandy we'll guide you in
      
scene sees normandy with fighters and cuisers either side suicidally taking reaper fire protecting normandy's move towards citadel. scene cuts back to shepard led motionless scene fades to black as Me3 signature tune plays. reopens through shepards eyes to see a neutral character like vega picking shepard up.

vega "no one gets left behind loco/lola

scene moves to normandy fly from the citadel as it explodes we then return to biowares endings. we could even have crew stood around memorial wall but instead of shepards name on plaque it reads THE REAPERS. Finally hacketts narration about unified galaxy but adding
" but of coarse all this wouln't of been possible without one soldier... commander where ever you are... thank you

last still shot scene like zaeed's or wrex's we see shepard led in medi bay having hand held by LI who smiles down

yes this ending would of been along the lines of destroy ending but shepard would of been making the choice of how to destroy the catalyst and not being told what to do by an AI interested only in synthetic salvation
of coarse this ending idea was based on my belief that the catalyst AI was part of the citdel if i was wrong and the reaper leader was some kind of wizard ghost then i really didn't understand what bioware was trying to do 

[KevShep]

Thore2k10 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...


Destroy-great we get to achieve the goal.  But weeeee, let's kill the people that best refute all that the kid says-EDI and the geth.  And because we've been so selfish, Shepard gets to end up as garbage in a pile of rubble, faceless and gasping.  That is way cool.

no, not cool, thats art!

I choose a future WITHOUT reaper influence!

Destroy is the only option!

Modifié par KevShep, 12 juillet 2012 - 09:41 .

[3DandBeyond]

@Tony0618,

If I mischaracterized what you said I am sorry.  I didn't mean you didn't care about ME1 and 2, but that as you said issues in them were not that important for you in ME3.  I even had said to you that they should be important in a series.  Dumped plot lines may not get resolved in comics until later on, but this was characterized as the last of Shepard's story arc.  The sum total of Shepard's story then should have been resolved.  I for one can't and won't hold out hope of Bioware actually doing anything to resolve any of the issues they've ignored with this ending.  They've said so many things that never came to fruition that thinking DLC will fix it all or ME4 will is pointless in my opinion.  This is a video game with a story and sorry it's not a comic.

I was merely referring to the fact that the only questions the EC answered that might have been of concern were questions raised by the original endings.  There are numerous postings of what the endings contradicted, omitted, ignored, retconned, and so on as to make one's head spin and I truly had wanted an ending that remembered what characters like Sovereign had said before. It mattered to me-you indicated that some of that stuff (dark energy, Haestrom and more) were not as important to you as they were to me.  My point is that if these things were to be abandoned, then why have anything carry over.  Make 3 different unconnected stories, and basically with ME3 they all but did that.  A Bioware marketing boss said ME3 is a great entry game into the series, and a good standalone game.  A marketing guy.  He should be about making money and product placement.  What that means is you go to buy a gallon of paint, they sell you a paintbrush and rollers, and drop cloths.  That also means if you go and buy game XYZ4, they will try to sell you XYZ1-3 as well.  But I have actually played ME3 on its own and I can tell you, both you and that marketing guy are kind of right, though you mean somewhat different things.  You can play ME3 on its own and nothing you did in ME1 and 2 matter at all as far as it is concerned.  Same endings, some different dialogue throughout but nothing that a newcome would even miss.  I think that's wrong.

[BlueStorm83]

luaggy wrote...

Finally finished playthrough with EC (work comitments) i have to say i still feel left with a bitter taste in my mouth. i tried all four endings and was amazed at how close they came with the refuse ending but ultimately decided the galaxy should end with a whimper. personnally if i had, had a hand in the creation i would of done something like this

end of refuse ending.
catalyst " so be it... the cycle continues
shepard " no.... it won't (raises hand to ear) all ships fire on the citadel repeat all ships fire on the citadel
              scene cuts to hackett
Hackett (breif pause) you heard that order fire on the citdel.... take it down
         
scene shows multiple ships turn their guns from the reapers and concentrate fire at the citadel.scene moves back to citadel to see shepard limp towards the open view. catalsyt reappears

catalyst "it won't last, you may destroy me but history always repeats itself.. you will create and they in turn will rebel... the cycle will eventually begin again
shepard " maybe... but that'll be our choice
        
           catalyst fades, shepard tightens in pain, cluthing his/her wound & collapes to the floor.

From here EMS, GR could of come into play, a weak rating and the reapers over power the smaller allied force. scene show liara's message about their cycle ending.
a high EMS, GR and scene shows a stronger force shower the citadel with weapon fire until an implosion then explostion errupts. a sonic wave as seen in other endings begins to take down reapers and then we see biowares relay destructions, troops cheering on various planets and normandys bizarre lets fly somewhere for no real reason while out running a destructive beam endings aswell as EC endings.
But a vey high EMS & GR and we could of had shepard collapse to floor. scene moves to normandy

Joker (pause)" screw it" (rapidly runs fingers over console) normandy breaks rank moves towards citadel
hackett (voice over comm) normandy pull back repeat pull back
joker "sorry sir but shepards done the same for us.... time we repayed the favour
hackett "godspeed normandy
voice on comm "your not alone normandy we'll guide you in
      
scene sees normandy with fighters and cuisers either side suicidally taking reaper fire protecting normandy's move towards citadel. scene cuts back to shepard led motionless scene fades to black as Me3 signature tune plays. reopens through shepards eyes to see a neutral character like vega picking shepard up.

vega "no one gets left behind loco/lola

scene moves to normandy fly from the citadel as it explodes we then return to biowares endings. we could even have crew stood around memorial wall but instead of shepards name on plaque it reads THE REAPERS. Finally hacketts narration about unified galaxy but adding
" but of coarse all this wouln't of been possible without one soldier... commander where ever you are... thank you

last still shot scene like zaeed's or wrex's we see shepard led in medi bay having hand held by LI who smiles down

yes this ending would of been along the lines of destroy ending but shepard would of been making the choice of how to destroy the catalyst and not being told what to do by an AI interested only in synthetic salvation
of coarse this ending idea was based on my belief that the catalyst AI was part of the citdel if i was wrong and the reaper leader was some kind of wizard ghost then i really didn't understand what bioware was trying to do 

---  Seconded.  But have them put the plaque that says "The Reapers" up on a board in a field, and then take potshots at it, while having some drinks, and lunch.

[chevyguy87]

@3DandBeyond, I would like to applaud you for keeping an intelligent conversation going, quite refreshing to have an actual discussion rather then a shouting contest.

There are just so many things done wrong or completely left out, that makes the list of the things done right seem like a spec of dust in the wind. Bioware dumbed this game down for the average Joe, which they should not have even considered. Out of curiosity I played a non import ME3 game and compared it to a fully imported ME1,2&3 game, and upon reviewing it, there really is almost no difference between the two aside from subtle dialogue and cutscene alterations. To me that is far worse then having a lousy ending.

The fact that one did not have to even know about the previous two installments and could jump right in is such a bad move on Bioware's end. To hell with the average schmuck off the street who just picked up ME3, think about your fans damnit.

You know the ones who have bought all the comic books, the ones who have played every game and have played them multiple times, the ones who have stood by your side paying you their hard earned money to continue the series, the ones who started that charity deal to raise money to give you so you could afford to go back and fix your mistakes, the ones who have been there since day one. Those are the people that should have mattered the most when creating ME3, those are the people you should have tailored the game to.

It looks like they have been forgotten. ME3 clearly shows that you didn't have to invest five years and hundreds of dollars in games, dlc content and other ME related merchandise, you didn't have to give a rats ass about the story or the brilliant cast chosen to fill it, you didn't have to give your constructive feedback to Bioware, or letters of appreciation, and possibly the worst thing of all, you did not even have to be a fan of the series to pick up ME3 and feel like you didn't miss a beat. In my opinion that right there is far worse then the ending.

The fact that we (the fans) were set aside in favor of the general audience, shows that Bioware is not the same company we fell in love with back in 2007. They have traded us in for the pursuit of the almighty dollar.

Modifié par chevyguy87, 12 juillet 2012 - 11:55 .

[Benchpress610]

chevyguy87 wrote...

@3DandBeyond, I would like to applaud you for keeping an intelligent conversation going, quite refreshing to have an actual discussion rather then a shouting contest.

There are just so many things done wrong or completely left out, that makes the list of the things done right seem like a spec of dust in the wind. Bioware dumbed this game down for the average Joe, which they should not have even considered. Out of curiosity I played a non import ME3 game and compared it to a fully imported ME1,2&3 game, and upon reviewing it, there really is almost no difference between the two aside from subtle dialogue and cutscene alterations. To me that is far worse then having a lousy ending.

The fact that one did not have to even know about the previous two installments and could jump right in is such a bad move on Bioware's end. To hell with the average schmuck off the street who just picked up ME3, think about your fans damnit.

You know the ones who have bought all the comic books, the ones who have played every game and have played them multiple times, the ones who have stood by your side paying you their hard earned money to continue the series, the ones who started that charity deal to raise money to give you so you could afford to go back and fix your mistakes, the ones who have been there since day one. Those are the people that should have mattered the most when creating ME3, those are the people you should have tailored the game to.

It looks like they have been forgotten. ME3 clearly shows that you didn't have to invest five years and hundreds of dollars in games, dlc content and other ME related merchandise, you didn't have to give a rats ass about the story or the brilliant cast chosen to fill it, you didn't have to give your constructive feedback to Bioware, or letters of appreciation, and possibly the worst thing of all, you did not even have to be a fan of the series to pick up ME3 and feel like you didn't miss a beat. In my opinion that right there is far worse then the ending.

The fact that we (the fans) were set aside in favor of the general audience, shows that Bioware is not the same company we fell in love with back in 2007. They have traded us in for the pursuit of the almighty dollar.

Great post, all valid points. The funny thing is that if they would’ve done what you said and make the game and story taking into consideration their loyal fans feedback and following the lore of the two previous games, they would’ve made a phenomenal job with ME3 (which they did most of the time). This in turn would’ve attracted the casual fan as well.
 
In my own experience, I didn’t know anything about Mass effect until the second game had been out for a couple of months. I saw a friend playing ME2 and I was so impressed that I asked him if the first one was still available. I wanted to experience the Mass Effect experience from the beginning, so I downloaded ME1 from Gamestop. The rest is history, I fell in love with the whole ME universe…of course until the ME3 ending.

[Benchpress610]

luaggy wrote...

Finally finished playthrough with EC (work comitments) i have to say i still feel left with a bitter taste in my mouth. i tried all four endings and was amazed at how close they came with the refuse ending but ultimately decided the galaxy should end with a whimper. personnally if i had, had a hand in the creation i would of done something like this

end of refuse ending.
catalyst " so be it... the cycle continues
shepard " no.... it won't (raises hand to ear) all ships fire on the citadel repeat all ships fire on the citadel
              scene cuts to hackett
Hackett (breif pause) you heard that order fire on the citdel.... take it down
         
scene shows multiple ships turn their guns from the reapers and concentrate fire at the citadel.scene moves back to citadel to see shepard limp towards the open view. catalsyt reappears

catalyst "it won't last, you may destroy me but history always repeats itself.. you will create and they in turn will rebel... the cycle will eventually begin again
shepard " maybe... but that'll be our choice
        
           catalyst fades, shepard tightens in pain, cluthing his/her wound & collapes to the floor.

From here EMS, GR could of come into play, a weak rating and the reapers over power the smaller allied force. scene show liara's message about their cycle ending.
a high EMS, GR and scene shows a stronger force shower the citadel with weapon fire until an implosion then explostion errupts. a sonic wave as seen in other endings begins to take down reapers and then we see biowares relay destructions, troops cheering on various planets and normandys bizarre lets fly somewhere for no real reason while out running a destructive beam endings aswell as EC endings.
But a vey high EMS & GR and we could of had shepard collapse to floor. scene moves to normandy

Joker (pause)" screw it" (rapidly runs fingers over console) normandy breaks rank moves towards citadel
hackett (voice over comm) normandy pull back repeat pull back
joker "sorry sir but shepards done the same for us.... time we repayed the favour
hackett "godspeed normandy
voice on comm "your not alone normandy we'll guide you in
      
scene sees normandy with fighters and cuisers either side suicidally taking reaper fire protecting normandy's move towards citadel. scene cuts back to shepard led motionless scene fades to black as Me3 signature tune plays. reopens through shepards eyes to see a neutral character like vega picking shepard up.

vega "no one gets left behind loco/lola

scene moves to normandy fly from the citadel as it explodes we then return to biowares endings. we could even have crew stood around memorial wall but instead of shepards name on plaque it reads THE REAPERS. Finally hacketts narration about unified galaxy but adding
" but of coarse all this wouln't of been possible without one soldier... commander where ever you are... thank you

last still shot scene like zaeed's or wrex's we see shepard led in medi bay having hand held by LI who smiles down

yes this ending would of been along the lines of destroy ending but shepard would of been making the choice of how to destroy the catalyst and not being told what to do by an AI interested only in synthetic salvation
of coarse this ending idea was based on my belief that the catalyst AI was part of the citdel if i was wrong and the reaper leader was some kind of wizard ghost then i really didn't understand what bioware was trying to do 

I like it!…Bioware should comb through this forum and pick the best ideas for a REAL alternative ending DLC.

[tg0618]

3DandBeyond wrote...

@Tony0618,

If I mischaracterized what you said I am sorry.

No worries, I think it was more of me being tired, and not transferring what I was thinking to what I wanted to say as well as I wanted to.

3DandBeyond wrote...

I didn't mean you didn't care about ME1 and 2, but that as you said issues in them were not that important for you in ME3. I even had said to you that they should be important in a series. Dumped plot lines may not get resolved in comics until later on, but this was characterized as the last of Shepard's story arc. The sum total of Shepard's story then should have been resolved. I for one can't and won't hold out hope of Bioware actually doing anything to resolve any of the issues they've ignored with this ending. They've said so many things that never came to fruition that thinking DLC will fix it all or ME4 will is pointless in my opinion. This is a video game with a story and sorry it's not a comic.

I was merely referring to the fact that the only questions the EC answered that might have been of concern were questions raised by the original endings. There are numerous postings of what the endings contradicted, omitted, ignored, retconned, and so on as to make one's head spin and I truly had wanted an ending that remembered what characters like Sovereign had said before. It mattered to me-you indicated that some of that stuff (dark energy, Haestrom and more) were not as important to you as they were to me. My point is that if these things were to be abandoned, then why have anything carry over. Make 3 different unconnected stories, and basically with ME3 they all but did that. A Bioware marketing boss said ME3 is a great entry game into the series, and a good standalone game. A marketing guy. He should be about making money and product placement. What that means is you go to buy a gallon of paint, they sell you a paintbrush and rollers, and drop cloths. That also means if you go and buy game XYZ4, they will try to sell you XYZ1-3 as well. But I have actually played ME3 on its own and I can tell you, both you and that marketing guy are kind of right, though you mean somewhat different things. You can play ME3 on its own and nothing you did in ME1 and 2 matter at all as far as it is concerned. Same endings, some different dialogue throughout but nothing that a newcome would even miss. I think that's wrong.

Fair enough, I respect your opinion, and find it refreshing to have an actual conversation, and not a shouting argument.

[KevShep]

a9fc wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

The Crucible is based on Prothean Technology... which is based on the guys who came before them... which is based on the guys before them... which was based on the guys before THEM... and continue this onward until we get back to some really really long ago race. And those guys are probably a Reaper now. It's all Reapers. From beginning to end, Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper Reaper, nobody can beat the Reapers. Reapers always win.

To say that the crucible is based on prothean technology suggests that they started it.

No. The Prothean VI from Thessia specifically stated that it started so many cycles ago that it was hard to trace it's origin.

The protheans added to the puzzle. So a part of it is prothean, yes (but 1%? 10%? 0.1% nobody knows).

It's a creation by the organics. Even the protheans couldn't tell when the catalyst was factored into the puzzle.

Everyone seems to forget that the most crucial part of the crucible (the part where you make your 3 decisions) is not on the crucible but on the citadel side meaning that there is no way that organics built the crucible plans.

Modifié par KevShep, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:38 .

[Postman778]

chevyguy87 wrote...

Arsenic Touch wrote...

Bioware had a lot of opportunities to shine and they just decided to half ass it. I can't see how anyone can be content with the war assets not mattering at all.

Here are some of my suggestions if Bioware ever decides to address the faults with ME3 to have it be quarter-assed and not half-assed.

-Tell Casey and Mac to take a hike and don't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out
-Replace those two with Patrick (who brilliantly wrote the Tuchancka story arc) and give Drew a call back (at least these two know how to write a story)
-Get rid of Herp Derp Allers and get Emily Wong back in the picture at least I found Emily to be cute
-Restore the Reapers fear factor (I laughed when I saw how they became props instead of actual enemies)
-Give us a boss fight with the Illusive Man and Harbinger
-BETTER CHARACTER TREATMENT
-Have the War Asset collection matter 
-And for christs sake get rid of Glow Stick and axe the Crucible (Those two items just sink ME3 no matter how hard you try to work them into the story)
-Give us a fitting ending that shows us the results of our hard work (or lack there of for some) not just pretty pictures with dialogue. 
-And for f*** sake show us Shepard living if our EMS is high enough damnit.

I doubt that Bioware will eventually change something, because it is ART, they created, it is their story they wanted to told. Oh wait, haven´t they said before, the player will create his own story?
The ME Series died with the ending of ME3. What do you want to show in ME4. Green eyed humans, krogans, asari etc. holding hand together with the reapers and husk, singing out loud with one voice: "We are the world"

Or should it start with a major Reaper Strike against the Yahg commited by Shepreaper, because the yahg might be danger to the rest of the galaxy, wiping them from the face of galaxy?

Or should it start like ME2, with Shepard being revived in a Cerberus facility

The Reapers appeared to be evil, like the Alien from Ridley Scotts "Alien". They need no explanation in my mind, why they are evil. They simply are.
But at least they aren´t, they are the good, protecting us by killing us before we kill ourselves with the synthetics we might create... My head is still spinning around when I hear that.

[AlexMBrennan]

axe the Crucible

Sorry, can't do it. You need the crucible, or a plot device very much like it:

ME1: stop Saren because the Reapers pose a threat so great that fighting simply isn't an option
ME3: Reapers invade anyway, but magically we can win this time. With fewer forces than what we had at the 1st battle of citadel, having lost and not yet replaced a bunch of ships.

Ther is nothing wrong with the Cruible in principle, and I doubt that fans would have complained quite this much if it had been a simple prothean design (rather than iterativly handed down - they built a mass relay, after all, so this is hardly difficult to believe) that killed the Reapers (rather than summoning godchild). So yeah, execution was flawed, but it's really the best you could have done with the mess that is ME2; for a real fix, you should probably start by rewriting *that* from scratch (having the heroes figure out how to stop the Reapers rather than wasting time on a non-threat like the Collectors - who wouldn't have gotten anywhere before the full scale invasion - would be a good start)

[KevShep]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

axe the Crucible

Sorry, can't do it. You need the crucible, or a plot device very much like it:

ME1: stop Saren because the Reapers pose a threat so great that fighting simply isn't an option
ME3: Reapers invade anyway, but magically we can win this time. With fewer forces than what we had at the 1st battle of citadel, having lost and not yet replaced a bunch of ships.

Ther is nothing wrong with the Cruible in principle, and I doubt that fans would have complained quite this much if it had been a simple prothean design (rather than iterativly handed down - they built a mass relay, after all, so this is hardly difficult to believe) that killed the Reapers (rather than summoning godchild). So yeah, execution was flawed, but it's really the best you could have done with the mess that is ME2; for a real fix, you should probably start by rewriting *that* from scratch (having the heroes figure out how to stop the Reapers rather than wasting time on a non-threat like the Collectors - who wouldn't have gotten anywhere before the full scale invasion - would be a good start)

If the builders of the crucible plans were betrayed by indoctrinated agents in every cycle ( as prothean VI says) then how did the reapers not know about the plans in the first place let alone destroying them? How then were they past down even after betrayal?

[Arsenic Touch]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Arsenic Touch wrote...

AresKeith wrote...


the Refuse Option was the perfect chance to make our War Assets and our past choices mean something, but nope

Correct me if I'm wrong, the refuse is when you shoot at the star child, right? discovered that by accident (dog hopped on ,my lap and spun the camera around and my finger hit the mouse) and when nothing happened and it skipped to the next scene, I was more disappointed than I was than with the original ending.

Bioware had a lot of opportunities to shine and they just decided to half ass it. I can't see how anyone can be content with the war assets not mattering at all.

Refuse can happen 2 ways:  Shoot the kid or tell him basically no to each of his choices.  The choice you'd pick to get it is always something like, "I can't do that" on the right side at the bottom of the dialogue wheel.

The difference isn't too much but there is a bit more that's better if you actively make a choice in dialogue to reject him.  However, results are the same.  It's not a serious attempt at reject and really not what people ever talked about as being what happened if you resisted the choices.  It's kind of meant to say to players, "you don't like our awesome endings?  Game over."  What the devs have said about it is they can't understand why people don't like it (sooo innocent), it was what they wanted.  No, what people wanted was to reject the kid and try to have a real fight with the real enemies in the game-it was a way to say the kid's logic was flawed, that put Shepard's spine back in, and that might allow for some "real" ending.

Figured as much. Wasted opportunities and people say we should thank them? ha. Why did they even bother adding that part? 

[Examurai]

luaggy wrote...

Finally finished playthrough with EC (work comitments) i have to say i still feel left with a bitter taste in my mouth. i tried all four endings and was amazed at how close they came with the refuse ending but ultimately decided the galaxy should end with a whimper. personnally if i had, had a hand in the creation i would of done something like this

end of refuse ending.
catalyst " so be it... the cycle continues
shepard " no.... it won't (raises hand to ear) all ships fire on the citadel repeat all ships fire on the citadel
              scene cuts to hackett
Hackett (breif pause) you heard that order fire on the citdel.... take it down
         
scene shows multiple ships turn their guns from the reapers and concentrate fire at the citadel.scene moves back to citadel to see shepard limp towards the open view. catalsyt reappears

catalyst "it won't last, you may destroy me but history always repeats itself.. you will create and they in turn will rebel... the cycle will eventually begin again
shepard " maybe... but that'll be our choice
        
           catalyst fades, shepard tightens in pain, cluthing his/her wound & collapes to the floor.

From here EMS, GR could of come into play, a weak rating and the reapers over power the smaller allied force. scene show liara's message about their cycle ending.
a high EMS, GR and scene shows a stronger force shower the citadel with weapon fire until an implosion then explostion errupts. a sonic wave as seen in other endings begins to take down reapers and then we see biowares relay destructions, troops cheering on various planets and normandys bizarre lets fly somewhere for no real reason while out running a destructive beam endings aswell as EC endings.
But a vey high EMS & GR and we could of had shepard collapse to floor. scene moves to normandy

Joker (pause)" screw it" (rapidly runs fingers over console) normandy breaks rank moves towards citadel
hackett (voice over comm) normandy pull back repeat pull back
joker "sorry sir but shepards done the same for us.... time we repayed the favour
hackett "godspeed normandy
voice on comm "your not alone normandy we'll guide you in
      
scene sees normandy with fighters and cuisers either side suicidally taking reaper fire protecting normandy's move towards citadel. scene cuts back to shepard led motionless scene fades to black as Me3 signature tune plays. reopens through shepards eyes to see a neutral character like vega picking shepard up.

vega "no one gets left behind loco/lola

scene moves to normandy fly from the citadel as it explodes we then return to biowares endings. we could even have crew stood around memorial wall but instead of shepards name on plaque it reads THE REAPERS. Finally hacketts narration about unified galaxy but adding
" but of coarse all this wouln't of been possible without one soldier... commander where ever you are... thank you

last still shot scene like zaeed's or wrex's we see shepard led in medi bay having hand held by LI who smiles down

yes this ending would of been along the lines of destroy ending but shepard would of been making the choice of how to destroy the catalyst and not being told what to do by an AI interested only in synthetic salvation
of coarse this ending idea was based on my belief that the catalyst AI was part of the citdel if i was wrong and the reaper leader was some kind of wizard ghost then i really didn't understand what bioware was trying to do 

Nice art bro 

[TimTheGreek]

Very nice

[chevyguy87]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

axe the Crucible

Sorry, can't do it. You need the crucible, or a plot device very much like it:

ME1: stop Saren because the Reapers pose a threat so great that fighting simply isn't an option
ME3: Reapers invade anyway, but magically we can win this time. With fewer forces than what we had at the 1st battle of citadel, having lost and not yet replaced a bunch of ships.

Ther is nothing wrong with the Cruible in principle, and I doubt that fans would have complained quite this much if it had been a simple prothean design (rather than iterativly handed down - they built a mass relay, after all, so this is hardly difficult to believe) that killed the Reapers (rather than summoning godchild). So yeah, execution was flawed, but it's really the best you could have done with the mess that is ME2; for a real fix, you should probably start by rewriting *that* from scratch (having the heroes figure out how to stop the Reapers rather than wasting time on a non-threat like the Collectors - who wouldn't have gotten anywhere before the full scale invasion - would be a good start)

We need the Crucible as much as we need Herp Derp Diana Allers. The Crucible is just a lousy plot device that drags the story along giving us some sort of goal to work towards. I would not have cared much if it was mentioned or hinted at or foreshadowed earlier in the series or something, but in ME3 all of a sudden we now have a way to kill Reapers. Execution = flawed, Delivery = flawed, Concept = flawed, it just opens up a whole new range of questions that never get answered, so it fails miserably as a plot device. 

@Postman78, I know that Bioware will never go near ME3 again, I should have renamed that brief list to "Things that Bioware should have done"