4048 réponses à ce sujet

[Bolt-Action]

My orig post was...obese lol
but can anyone confirm, whether the planet the Normandy (SR2) "landed" on, is indeed, the same planet that the old man and kid were on? (after the credits)
There seems to be some similarities....

[Darth Garrus]

Right now I think a lot of people spoke their minds about how bad the game is. And it's all true and there are some great posts. But I'm afraid BW and EA will just go for the "talk bad, but talk about me", which still means good business, and never-ending marketing.

I do think some practical things still should be done. Like open-letters to them (and to blogs, sites etc) about how disappointed we fans are with BW and EA, and then hold on to a promise to not buy BW and EA games in pre-order.

ME3 still made good business because of massive pre-orders. If people keep doing that, why would they change? We may complaint, but if we keep buying it, why would they change?

I say something practical must be done. And the wallets are always the things that move the world.

We say: we will buy your games. But if they are good and true to what BW used to promise and deliver. Not before!

[3DandBeyond]

Bolt-Action wrote...

My orig post was...obese lol
but can anyone confirm, whether the planet the Normandy (SR2) "landed" on, is indeed, the same planet that the old man and kid were on? (after the credits)
There seems to be some similarities....

I don't know if that's clear at all.  I think for the original endings it was supposed to be-a lot of us have said that scene makes no real sense now.  But it's one of many.

Personally, of all the planets I have looked at the jungle planet to me most resembles the one Jacob's father was on, Aeia, I think.  The planet Aeia had that toxic food.  It has 2 moons, looks very jungle like.  Of course that doesn't mean it is, but it's the only one that looks like it that I could find.

[clearsnowflakes]

Ratimir wrote...

Wow, the Extended Cut is brilliant! It fixes everything!

It explains clearly, succintly and artisticly, without seeming the least bit patronising, every single problem in the original ending.

It shows us why Javik(!) is willing to abandon me at the beam, after suffering a minor injury.
It shows us why Coates casually overlooks not one but two of humanities greatest heroes when he reports that nobody made it.
It makes it perfectly clear how Anderson seems to teleport around the Citadel.
It explains exactly how and why TIM shows up when he does.
It shows us how TIM is capable of physically controlling both Shepard and Anderson.
It gives good reasons for renegade Shep to not just shoot TIM the instant he shows up.
It explains why Joker and Garrus are so keen to run away and leave me behind without a second thought. After all, neither of them would ever think about putting their friends before their orders.
It clarifies the hologramatic ament's fevered ramblings so that they actually make coherent sense.
It allows us to respond to the holo-moron's 'destroy will kill geth and EDI because I can't tell the difference' by pointing out that our Interferometric Array can provide "a real-time map of ... each and every Reaper in the Milky Way", and that ME2 introduced a minor little gadget called a Reaper IFF...
It allows us to remind the holo-idiot that he just said a minute ago that synthesis can't be forced and now he's telling us to force it.
It explains how the Reaper/God/Shepard thing created by picking blue electrocution manages to retain the identity of Shepard, when it should logically be harder to transfer a mind intact from an organic body to a synthetic one than it is to transfer an AI from one blue box to another (which we are explicitly told is impossible).
It explains how synthesis works.
It explains how synthesis manages to differentiate between various levels of complexity and advancement, to avoid the creation of partially organic furniture, and partially synthetic bacteria.
It makes the decision of what to do with the Rachni relevant.
It gives us a clear context and point for the whole sequence of the Normandy running away, crashing/landing on garden world, etc.
It answers the question of why the death of a random kid haunts Shepard's dreams, while the good friends lost on Virmire or the Collector base are forgotten.
It shows us what happened to all the people on the Citadel when the Reapers took control.
It shows us all of our interesting War assets in action, like those awesome Elcor super heavy infantry and the charge of the Krogan cavalry.
It gives characters like Emily Wong, Kal'Reegar and Mess Sergeant Gardner the appearances they deserve, even if only for a brief heroic death scene.
It shows us Tali's face. For real, this time.
It puts the 'breath scene' into context and makes it make sense.
It ties up all the loose ends, like you'd expect from the third title in a trilogy.
And in the end we get to kick back on a beach with our friends, raise a glass to those who didn't make it, and celebrate saving the galaxy.

After all, we told BioWare how awful the original endings were on every imaginable level. And they said they were listening.

There's no way they'd be stupid enough to just give us the same ending with a bit more polish.

There's no way they'd be stupid enough to think that the problem was with our understanding of the endings, not with the ****ing endings.

There's no way they'd be stupid enough to give the job of fixing it to the same incompetents who ****ed it up in the first place. And not put it through rigourous QA to make sure that they actually fixed the problems.

There's no way EA would be stupid enough to let them put out any old crap without putting it past their own QA and playtesting first.

There's no...

**** it. There's no point going on with this ****. "We're listening" was just another lie after all. Add it to the lists.
http://social.biowar.../index/10204263
http://social.biowar.../index/10056886

Goodbye BioWare.

Thank you on behalf of Rockstar Games, Square Enix, THQ, Volition inc. and Eidos Interactive, who have already benefitted from money that I would otherwise have spent on your products (such as the ME action figures, comics and novels, and the Dragon Age table-top RPG), or those of your overlords at EA.

I hope you enjoy the money you squeezed out of me for the collector's edition. You won't be getting any more. This was your last chance, and you blew it. Partly with this pathetic excuse for a fix, but mostly with your ****ty attitude. I'll spend my money on someone who actually wants it.

win.

[3DandBeyond]

Darth Suetam wrote...

Right now I think a lot of people spoke their minds about how bad the game is. And it's all true and there are some great posts. But I'm afraid BW and EA will just go for the "talk bad, but talk about me", which still means good business, and never-ending marketing.

I do think some practical things still should be done. Like open-letters to them (and to blogs, sites etc) about how disappointed we fans are with BW and EA, and then hold on to a promise to not buy BW and EA games in pre-order.

ME3 still made good business because of massive pre-orders. If people keep doing that, why would they change? We may complaint, but if we keep buying it, why would they change?

I say something practical must be done. And the wallets are always the things that move the world.

We say: we will buy your games. But if they are good and true to what BW used to promise and deliver. Not before!

You know where the Bioware people live--twitter.  But, I think at this point EA is who needs to be involved in this.  I don't think they are innocent in all this, but they are a business and this has been a massive mess.  I do think writing to them maybe will be cathartic at least, but might get some attention if it appeals to their business sense in some way.  They are practical.  Make the case that if xyz had been done, more money would have come their way and more fans.  Spell out what the flaws were, what the games meant to you, what money you spent, and how it will impact your buying in the future.  It may not help, but it couldn't hurt. 

And while many people think this might be a bad thing, EA might take more notice of exactly how dismissive at least BW is to fans.  Consider that twitter is open to anyone.  This forum here is for registered owners.  I can tell you from a recent bad experience that I have really soured on at least one person at BW who lied to me.  This is the culture at Bioware.  I no longer think they are just a lot of overworked people trying too hard and pressed real hard by EA.  I think there is something seriously wrong with the culture there.  None of them can get a story straight as to what they explain on twitter-it's like they really don't talk to each other and don't play their own games.  In some respects, I think success has spoiled them.

[xDeluCx]

Bioware I think everyone including me all have the same thing to say about mass effect 3. Thank you for paying attention to our complaints and giving us the extended cut but it did not do enough so please listen again and let mass effect end with a bang. Give us one more extended ending that is just for the shepard survival ending giving the world a real last chance to say goodbye to shepard one of the most beloved main characters. Show shepard alive and well with his romance character and his squad Please let mass effect prosper again!

[Bolt-Action]

These are all very good points. Initially, I pointed the blame towards EA, forcing BW to release to early. However, I'm inclined to believe now, that is not the case. I believe, as far as BW is concerned, that they feel like they've done all they're willing to do. (Multiplayer Ex Packs and Extended cut for free) Perhaps they wanted to hash out ME3 to get onto "bigger and better" projects with EA, and that sacrifice shows in ME3. If nothing else, one would hope BW has learned a valuable lesson about; what not to do. I'm aghast at the differences between ME2 and ME3. As always, cash is king, so dinging EA/BW's wallet, could garner the most attention. By refusing to purchase any further releases by EA/BW. However, there's another catch to this, that most have not considered, that being, ME3 has been such a "hassle" to them, it might cause them to consider any further ME releases as "taboo". After all, if you get someone all "butt hurt" about something, they won't do it again...usually. But I can't help feeling that BW thinks THIS, will all just go away. P.T. Barnum said "I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right." and "There's a sucker born every minute."
I'm half tempted to write ME3 off as an "Epic Fail" BW knows it, and so do we. So, I'd be willing to keep an open mind, IF, they release more ME. It's beyond me, why they would put cap on the number of ME releases, why 3? Why not 6? Etc. (I'm aware they said its a trilogy, but...) If they'd be willing to put quality work into further ME projects, I'd be willing to buy. 

Im a huge fan of Mass Effect but if they wash thier hands of it...Im looking for the next FallOut.

Modifié par Bolt-Action, 21 juillet 2012 - 07:21 .

[luaggy]

it amazes me that 9 out of 10 people posting on this thread our of near same mind. At most the basic flaws and unaswered questions can be almost overlooked, but without the endings altered to similar fashion that loyal well paying fans have asked for this game, this series falls and falls hard from the unique and epic trilogy we thought and hoped it would be.

Bioware's answer have another multiplayer pack maybe they'll be quiet

[Eretikas]

Ksandor wrote...
The sad blatant misinformation (!) from an anonymous executive made an interview on Kotaku is that game forums do not represent the opinion of people who buy games.

We are led to believe that the majority of people who bought ME3 do not read ME3 forums, therefore if the majority on ME3 forums say the game endings suck they should be ignored as minority.

Amazon.com (Xbox 360):
Mass Effect 1 - 4.4/5
Mass Effect 2 - 4.6/5
Mass Effect 3 - 2.6/5 (my advice: replace last 10% of game and gain 2 stars back)

...also, all these Mass Effect 3 ending hate videos on YouTube with millions of views with hundreds and thousands support votes in total is a lie ?

It seems like, according to BioWare, majority of gamers are represented by reviews paid by PR department or reviews from people who haven't finished the game only. Game ending is like dead rotting elephant in BioWare offices and all they can do is walk around with air fresheners and pretend that there is no problem. Could it be that low level management are simply lying about situation to high level management in order to cover their failure?

Modifié par Eretikas, 21 juillet 2012 - 11:34 .

[Bolt-Action]

Eretikas wrote...

Ksandor wrote...

Amazon.com (Xbox 360):
Mass Effect 1 - 4.4/5
Mass Effect 2 - 4.6/5
Mass Effect 3 - 2.6/5 (my advice: replace last 10% of game and gain 2 stars back)

BW exec's- Do you think those reviews on Amazon are accurate?
Nah, that was the "old" ending.
There's a different ending?

[Ieldra]

Liam wrote...
Finally finished the Extended Cut DLC. Bioware did fill the single most gaping hole, giving us both closure and the ability for the galaxy and its inhabitants to continue as viable. Now, there actually /is/ choice, instead of the relays blowing up no matter what. They were able to do that and keep their vision of the ending in tact, which is what /should/ have happened when the game was released. In any event, thank you, Bioware.

Pretty much my reaction.

There's still one major problem with the ending: that the Catalyst's rationale for the cycle is narratively inconsistent with what came before in the game. There are also very noticeable flaws where symbolism and themes aren't grounded in in-world logic. But the ending feels like a victory for me now. I could save what I wanted to save and give the galaxy a bright future. Retconning Walters' "wasteland" scenario and the 10k-years dark age did the most to reconciliate me with the ending.

[BlueStorm83]

Darth Suetam wrote...

Right now I think a lot of people spoke their minds about how bad the game is. And it's all true and there are some great posts. But I'm afraid BW and EA will just go for the "talk bad, but talk about me", which still means good business, and never-ending marketing.

I do think some practical things still should be done. Like open-letters to them (and to blogs, sites etc) about how disappointed we fans are with BW and EA, and then hold on to a promise to not buy BW and EA games in pre-order.

ME3 still made good business because of massive pre-orders. If people keep doing that, why would they change? We may complaint, but if we keep buying it, why would they change?

I say something practical must be done. And the wallets are always the things that move the world.

We say: we will buy your games. But if they are good and true to what BW used to promise and deliver. Not before!

---  Mmm hm.  Having a game get negative feedback COULD feed the game.  I mean, I have 2 cousins and a brother who all decided that they're going to play through the entire series, because they can't believe that the ending is as bad as I'm making it out to be.  And this WILL create sales and bring more people into the multiplayer (paid online pass.)  But the biggest problem...

You can only do this ONCE.  **** Game leading to More Multiplayer Codes Sold won't be a repeatable business practice.  Why?  Because people will learn to expect the **** Game and just avoid it.  While ME3's multiplayer remains FUN... I wouldn't have bought it if that's all the game was.  Frankly, this is Bad Story meets Bad Business.  It's NOT the new Chocolate and Peanut Butter.

---  Recent Twitters between fans and Twits makes me think that yeah, they wanted to give us a blank slate and have us just headcanon an ending.  This kinda **** doesn't work in the Internet Age.  Just like how North Korea believed that Kim Il Sung was the world's greatest leader... until his son Kim Jong Il took over... oblivious to the concentration camps and the way they'd make entire families disappear if they spoke against the government, this kind of business can't survive when people start SEEING IT.  And when I can hold up a tiny plastic rectangle from my pocket and POW, the Internet sees the truth, and it's recorded FOREVER and there's no way to take it down, you can't treat people like sheep anymore.  Long, long ago on the original ending thread, I had a statement, and I'll make it again.

"If you want me to make up my OWN ending, then I don't need to pay you seventy dollars to do so."

[BlueStorm83]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Liam wrote...
Finally finished the Extended Cut DLC. Bioware did fill the single most gaping hole, giving us both closure and the ability for the galaxy and its inhabitants to continue as viable. Now, there actually /is/ choice, instead of the relays blowing up no matter what. They were able to do that and keep their vision of the ending in tact, which is what /should/ have happened when the game was released. In any event, thank you, Bioware.

Pretty much my reaction.

There's still one major problem with the ending: that the Catalyst's rationale for the cycle is narratively inconsistent with what came before in the game. There are also very noticeable flaws where symbolism and themes aren't grounded in in-world logic. But the ending feels like a victory for me now. I could save what I wanted to save and give the galaxy a bright future. Retconning Walters' "wasteland" scenario and the 10k-years dark age did the most to reconciliate me with the ending.

Well, you can give SOME of the galaxy a bright future. 

You can give the next cycle a bright future, letting everyone now die.
You can give Organics a bright future, murdering a friend, betraying Joker, and comitting genocide against the Geth... when Shepard has just said "You don't condemn an entire species based on what might happen."
You can give people a bright future... under Authoritatian Reaper Rule, as Shepard acts like Unicomp (Ira Levin's "This Perfect Day) and assures that the many will prosper (no indication of what he'd do to dissidents.
Or you can give the Galaxy a bright future... because they're all glowing borg abominations with flashlight laser eyeballs.

I actually MISS the 10 thousand year dark age.

[Bolt-Action]

Ratimir's post, clearly and eloquently, pointed out all the flaws and issues with ME3.
An ending is not that difficult. If they really wanted an "artistic" or "poetic" ending, simply done!
Return Shep to his cold, vacuum formed grave in space, from whence he came. Done.
But, by Zeus' butthole, don't switch around the antagonist and protagonist, and say, "it's the same thing"

[Ieldra]

What did you expect, BlueStorm? An ending with no bad side effects *and* no moral compromise? That would've been utterly boring.

It *is* a bright future. There is a difference between murder/genocide and sacrificing people for victory in a war. It's your ending, so you know how your Control!Shepard will act in future, and the "abominations" (a term that shouldn't even exist) - the eyes are artistic representations of a mostly invisible change, and if the ability to seamlessly integrate technology is enough for you to use that term for people then that says something about you rather than about those people, doesn't it?

If you want the 10k year dark age back then you can always play low-EMS Destroy, but pardon me if I'm looking forward to a more interesting future for my ME universe. In any of the three main options.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 juillet 2012 - 03:30 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Bad side effects? A moral compromise?

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide. Condoning genocide in control and synthesis is not a moral compromise, it is leaving that system intact by keeping the reapers alive. Infecting people with synthesis without their consent is violating the right of self-determination. I don't care if you do not understand these concepts or if these make you feel uneasy. You can have your own head canon, but that does not hide the fact that these things are true.

BW did not leave a way out for people who simply wanted to be the hero and join with their LI, or simply wanted to defeat the reapers, or simply wanted to end the story without inflicting more atrocities. They are forced to rationalize these concepts away and/or act like sociopaths, just to end a game.

Is it bad writing? Perhaps, but it is a choice that BW made. It is not an accident. They have written it the way it is presented to us. What's next? Painting the cyclical genocide as a cosmic event, in order to feel good about whatever choice you make?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 juillet 2012 - 04:42 .

[Bolt-Action]

Come now, moral compromise is one thing, hell, all thru ME1-ME3 you must make moral compromises. But the point at which YOUR moral compromise is achieved at the great lose to others, stops being called "moral compromise" and starts being called failure. To illustrate my point; if in ME3, Shep works for Cerebrus/TIM, he morally compromised, however, had Shep known and assisted TIM in the testing/indoctrination of all the people on Horizon, it stops being a moral compromise, and becomes something else entirely.
Furthermore, all your characters, that you established, from ME1 thru ME3 (until the ending) shouldn't be suddenly altered , to FIT an ending, that dooms it to failure. Case in point....

[3DandBeyond]

Eretikas wrote...

Ksandor wrote...
The sad blatant misinformation (!) from an anonymous executive made an interview on Kotaku is that game forums do not represent the opinion of people who buy games.

We are led to believe that the majority of people who bought ME3 do not read ME3 forums, therefore if the majority on ME3 forums say the game endings suck they should be ignored as minority.

Amazon.com (Xbox 360):
Mass Effect 1 - 4.4/5
Mass Effect 2 - 4.6/5
Mass Effect 3 - 2.6/5 (my advice: replace last 10% of game and gain 2 stars back)

...also, all these Mass Effect 3 ending hate videos on YouTube with millions of views with hundreds and thousands support votes in total is a lie ?

It seems like, according to BioWare, majority of gamers are represented by reviews paid by PR department or reviews from people who haven't finished the game only. Game ending is like dead rotting elephant in BioWare offices and all they can do is walk around with air fresheners and pretend that there is no problem. Could it be that low level management are simply lying about situation to high level management in order to cover their failure?

Most of those that tend to like the EC, like it merely in comparison to the original endings.  And well there was nowhere to go but up from them.  Sadly, in even explaining it as Bluestomr83 put so well, they actually in many ways made it worse and not better.  And in keeping what was there that was wrong, they've kind of sollidified this as their idea of a good ending.  It's atrocious.

ME3 is a game and story that is at once beautiful in parts and that helps you overlook the uglier parts and those uglier parts would be totally forgive had the ending been great.  It needed to be great.  But that does not mean some spectacular thing that merely explains some psycho's version of why the reapers do what they do and how to help them fulfill the purpose their boss needs to complete.  Even a simple ending would have been better than this.

ME1 and 2 both were not overly complex endings with a lot of explanation for what was happening.  And they worked.  ME3's ending is over the top convoluted, contradictory, and "esoteric" and it doesn't.  Because it doesn't other flaws become less "forgivable".

[Ieldra]

@Bolt-Action:
If a moral compromise does NOT come at the expense of others, it isn't a moral compromise but a normal action where you don't stick stick to some meaningless principle. Why would I find *anything* wrong in working with TIM unless I thought working with him causes some actual harm that could be avoided by not working with him?

As for characters being altered, as I see it, Shepard must adapt to the situation. To deny it and insist that there must be another solution when there isn't would be stupid. I agree she could be a little less meek about it, though. That is out of character. Also I greatly dislike that the Catalyst comes with pretensions to godhood, and yes, it is infuriating that Shepard loses all agency in the end except for making the choice, even to the point of being lifted up to the Catalyst's chamber instead of going there herself.

The setup for the final choice itself, however, I find acceptable.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 juillet 2012 - 04:50 .

[Nyaore]

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.

[AresKeith]

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.

did you have Legion and did all the Rannoch side missions?

[Nyaore]

AresKeith wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.

did you have Legion and did all the Rannoch side missions?

Yes. Everything was done to make it work. (Missions done, Tali and Legion at full loyalty from ME2, Koris saved, etc.) The EC is the only new variable.

Modifié par Nyaore, 21 juillet 2012 - 04:58 .

[AresKeith]

Nyaore wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.

did you have Legion and did all the Rannoch side missions?

Yes. Everything was done to make it work. The EC is the only new variable.

ok that is very weird, I hope Bioware didn't try to change things to make the ending fit their minds

[Bolt-Action]

Ah! I can see where you're coming from now, and we agree on several points.
However, you must see that to morally compromise your beliefs and values so that many can gain at the lose of few, is acceptable.
But, when few gain at the lose of many, it is not a moral compromise any longer, to be blunt and albeit extreme; Hitler, cult leaders....
It's not as simple as saying, only Shep was altered to fit the ending. The entire crew of the Normandy was altered to fit the ending, you must see that(?)

[Bolt-Action]

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.

You must choose a side-initially (I went with Quarians) then Legion steps up and says his bit, then you're given the choice for peace.