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#3351
3DandBeyond

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Ieldra2 wrote...

What did you expect, BlueStorm? An ending with no bad side effects *and* no moral compromise? That would've been utterly boring.

It *is* a bright future. There is a difference between murder/genocide and sacrificing people for victory in a war. It's your ending, so you know how your Control!Shepard will act in future, and the "abominations" (a term that shouldn't even exist) - the eyes are artistic representations of a mostly invisible change, and if the ability to seamlessly integrate technology is enough for you to use that term for people then that says something about you rather than about those people, doesn't it?

If you want the 10k year dark age back then you can always play low-EMS Destroy, but pardon me if I'm looking forward to a more interesting future for my ME universe. In any of the three main options.


Oh so now adhering to morality and your values is boring?  Gee just what do you do for fun?  It is not a bright future. 

Shepard that exerts control is no longer Shepard once becoming Shreaper.  Unless you think that all a person is is their intelligence and that emotion and feeling, empathy and caring and even hate mean nothing.  We aren't just what we think, we are even more what we feel.  Shreaper (the thing that controls the reapers) is no longer Shepard.  In fact, our morality (what Shreaper would think is right) comes even more from our emotions than it does from our intellect.  You have no idea how Shreaper will act in the future and the ominous tone of Control suggests it might not be good.  My paragon Shepard/Shreaper said the woman she was always knew she had to become something greater-no, she didn't.  No paragon ever thought that.  It also talks about taking care of the many-again not a paragon "thought".  Also, no one knows that Shepard is controlling them-they all think Shepard died.  And suddenly the reapers are fixing things and are policing the galaxy.  Do you honestly think no one will ever worry that they might attack again?  Do you honestly think everyone will just sing songs and hold hands and be happy with reapers living and working around them?  The reapers have people goo in them.  If you were living on Earth at the time, isn't it possible you might wonder which reaper "ate" your family and want the reapers gone?  Isn't it possible other people would? 

And what happens when old disagreements arise?  Think the Batarians will just all retire?  What if the Salarians and Krogan start fighting?  And the reapers fly in to stop the fighting?  That can't end well--who wins and who loses and which "many" does Shreaper protect?

A lot of people even in the ME "universe" see the use internally of tech as an abomination.  Choosing synthesis forces your "easy" choice on them without their consent.  And the change to people is unnatural and thus is an abomination.  Furthermore, it is complete drivel to say that the fusion of synthetics and organics is something that will one day naturally happen, that is unless the star kid is God.  In making it happen, you are buying into the idea that he is either psychic or a deity.  He was programmed by someone, so he is by virtue of that a fallible being with limits to his knowledge and yet he is telling you he knows all.  Also, by choosing synthesis you are solving his problem, achieving his goals and not yours. 

Where in 3 games did anyone other than the repugnant and insane and indoctrinated ever attempt synthesis?  Where in 3 games did Shepard ever indicate it sounded like a good idea.  Attempts to achieve it (overlord, Saren, Cerberus husks, collectors, the reapers themselves) have always been abominations.  So, now it's just great because it seems innocuous and is being offered by Mr. Innocent-in the form of a kid?  It is even abominable to select it based upon what he thinks it means.  He sees it as perfection and what all people aspire to become through tech.  Talk about warped.  He is tech so in one of the best examples of what racists think those inferior to them want, he is telling you that all people want to be more like him.  No they don't.  Perfection does not exist but when we talk about it we say it is in a baby's smile, or a beautiful day, or in the sleek lines of some designed work a person created.  It often exists within our emotions about things and not in the things themselves.  Nothing is perfect, but if it ever is then there's no way or reason to go beyond perfect.  Add to that the idea of immortality and I ask you can you really not see the problems that might come of it?  Krogan have babies.  Rachni have babies.  They both have a lot of babies.  Reapers still exist and are now what, controlling themselves?  This is not utopia.  And it is unnatural.  And it is forced.

So destroy.  Sacrifice in battle does happen, sure.  But the targeting of a whole race or whole races of people is intentional and is genocide.  They are not casualties of war, they are gratuitous victims on a lack of imagination or a persistent expression of punishment upon players of the game.  The choice could target reapers only but that would be too much like fun, so in choosing it morality is thrown out the window along with Shepard's heart.  And for good measure let's smash that heart and all those values and leave Shepard where such a selfish person as s/he deserves to be-under rubble and headless.  You cannot compare great freely offered sacrifice and death in battle to planned extermination of whole races of people.  My paragon Shepard said you don't condemn a race of people to extinction based upon what might happen AND you don't sacrifice some over here to save others over there.

There's a big difference between someone running forward willingly toward the enemy and dying and you being told by your enemy you must shoot someone in the head to save others.

So refuse seems natural and makes sense, but the writers decided that since you don't want to see how cool the other choices are, you need to be punished.  Game over, idiot.

None of these are victories and certainly not for the people I care about.  I care about Shepard, Shepard's friends and loved ones.  I care about the galaxy and even those that didn't want to save themselves. I care about this moment n time and not the future-one that may or may not happen, but also one the free and self-reliant people can attain.  But in caring about all that there have to be overriding factors that determine the quality of life after any victory and that is "is it moral, was it achieved with honor and values intact, with the heart leading the way, or was it achieved for expediency-was the easy road the one I traveled?"  You don't win at all costs or the costs are too high.  You win because it is the right thing to do and you did the right things to get there.  There's no "win" in ME3.

#3352
Nyaore

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Bolt-Action wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.


You must choose a side-initially (I went with Quarians) then Legion steps up and says his bit, then you're given the choice for peace.

Ah thank you, now I feel dumb. 
Sorry for hijacking the thread. ^^;

#3353
BlueStorm83

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[quote]Ieldra2 wrote...

What did you expect, BlueStorm? An ending with no bad side effects *and* no moral compromise? That would've been utterly boring. [/quote]

Yeah, I expected my heroic uncompromising "Save the Galaxy" adventure to end in the way it had progressed.  Maybe I'm a simplistic optimist, but I like my fantasies to end happy.

[quote]It *is* a bright future. There is a difference between murder/genocide and sacrificing people for victory in a war. It's your ending, so you know how your Control!Shepard will act in future, and the "abominations" (a term that shouldn't even exist) - the eyes are artistic representations of a mostly invisible change, and if the ability to seamlessly integrate technology is enough for you to use that term for people then that says something about you rather than about those people, doesn't it? [/quote]

My Shepard wouldn't have necessarily talked that way.  My Shepard would have Controlled the Reapers to death, not sent them to work on things.  Control used to be my "best of a bad situation" ending, but the Control Epilogue Shepard no longer acts like my Shepard would.

And yeah, some things are abominations.  The Reapers sure as hell are: they're composed of GROUND UP PEOPLE and controlled by a moronic machine.  Plugging people's minds into them (as evidenced by what EDI tells us about everyone having a direct connection to all the knowledge inside the Reapers,) is tantamount to the Borg from Star Trek.  Maybe it IS a Paradise inside the collective, I don't know.  My point is, I'd never find out, I'd sooner kill myself than accept it.

And yes, there is a difference between murder, genocide, and sacrificing people.  My point is, the Geth aren't necessarily soldiers.  Nor is EDI.  They're only fighting because the circumstances are FORCING them to.

Furthermore, All Geth minus All Geth equals Genocide.  That is the definition of the word.  You can not pick Destroy without comitting Genocide.  That's just the nature of what they've given us.

So, you're not saying that I'd be abominable if I were to take innocent people and, let's say, remove all their teeth and replace them with dental implants?  Some would argue that Dental Implants are superior to natural teeth: I would be one of them.  They're harder, stronger, have no possibility of becoming infected.  I have a few myself.  I can't force them on others.

Does my calling the results of Synthesis abominable say something about me?  Yeah, it does.  And it'll say something about me again, when I once again assert that connecting all life mentally, and making it all half synthetic without taking each individual's will into account, is an abominable thing. [/quote]

[quote]If you want the 10k year dark age back then you can always play low-EMS Destroy, but pardon me if I'm looking forward to a more interesting future for my ME universe. In any of the three main options. [/quote]

I can't play Low EMS Destroy.  My Multiplayer Promotions are so high that I can't finish the game without getting High EMS endings.  Broken game mechanic. 

Interesting is not always good.  "And they lived happily ever after" is less interesting than "The Prince, dissatisfied with domestic life, came to beat the princess regularly.  Eventually, he beat her so badly that their unborn child died.  The Princess grew to despise the prince so much that she murdered him in his sleep, blaming the captain of the royal guard, and claiming that he had raped her.  The Captain was put to death, and the Princess comitted suicide.  The kingdom descended into chaos, and they were eventually conquered by Mongols."  But it's a better ending to a story that has for two HUNDRED hours been about people trying to live happily ever after.

#3354
3DandBeyond

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BlueStorm83 wrote...
----snipped

I can't play Low EMS Destroy.  My Multiplayer Promotions are so high that I can't finish the game without getting High EMS endings.  Broken game mechanic. 

Interesting is not always good.  "And they lived happily ever after" is less interesting than "The Prince, dissatisfied with domestic life, came to beat the princess regularly.  Eventually, he beat her so badly that their unborn child died.  The Princess grew to despise the prince so much that she murdered him in his sleep, blaming the captain of the royal guard, and claiming that he had raped her.  The Captain was put to death, and the Princess comitted suicide.  The kingdom descended into chaos, and they were eventually conquered by Mongols."  But it's a better ending to a story that has for two HUNDRED hours been about people trying to live happily ever after.


Well you can go offline, that will remove your N7s and GR.  Still not an answer but it's possible.  Low EMS destroy is still a freaking joke on players.

And yes I always play video games for the "unhappily ever after" ending.  That's the very nature of entertainment, right?  Life sucks sometimes so let's make it suck just a bit more by playing a video game which forces you to compromise your values, morals, feelings, and do it as the hero of the story. 

I tend to think that sacrifice must be for a reason and not just because it looks cool.  In a story and game that was always about the possibility of living and achieving a victory if you tried hard enough, it's just so great that you can't do that now.  Weee.

#3355
BlueStorm83

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3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...
----snipped

I can't play Low EMS Destroy.  My Multiplayer Promotions are so high that I can't finish the game without getting High EMS endings.  Broken game mechanic. 

Interesting is not always good.  "And they lived happily ever after" is less interesting than "The Prince, dissatisfied with domestic life, came to beat the princess regularly.  Eventually, he beat her so badly that their unborn child died.  The Princess grew to despise the prince so much that she murdered him in his sleep, blaming the captain of the royal guard, and claiming that he had raped her.  The Captain was put to death, and the Princess comitted suicide.  The kingdom descended into chaos, and they were eventually conquered by Mongols."  But it's a better ending to a story that has for two HUNDRED hours been about people trying to live happily ever after.


Well you can go offline, that will remove your N7s and GR.  Still not an answer but it's possible.  Low EMS destroy is still a freaking joke on players.

And yes I always play video games for the "unhappily ever after" ending.  That's the very nature of entertainment, right?  Life sucks sometimes so let's make it suck just a bit more by playing a video game which forces you to compromise your values, morals, feelings, and do it as the hero of the story. 

I tend to think that sacrifice must be for a reason and not just because it looks cool.  In a story and game that was always about the possibility of living and achieving a victory if you tried hard enough, it's just so great that you can't do that now.  Weee.


I've played games that left me depressed and entertained.  That's because the game always had an atmosphere of depression.  It's possible, and sometimes even PREFERABLE to have a game like that.  It's tougher to make, but can be more poignant.

The problem is ME wasn't that.  I always stood up and said "We can make it on our own!  We don't have to compromise who we are to carry on into the future!  Survival isn't enough, we will TRIUMPH!!!!"  And that was ALWAYS true... until the Starboy shows up.  If throughout the ENTIRE GAME I tried to take the moral high ground and paid grave prices, if staying true to myself ALWAYS made me and others pay high prices, THEN the endings would fit.  But that's not how it was.

There's only ONE set of circumstances where doing the right thing had a negative reprocusssion.  That was Mordin.  If you're a D-bag, you CAN get Mordin to survive.  But you lose Wrex.  So it's not even a true moral thing, you can reduce it to a trade off.

In a Mass Effect where Shepard could constantly lose friends if he tries to have it all, THEN these endings would be great.  But instead, we have a Mass Effect where Shepard can be the Galaxy's Savior (The ENTIRE Galaxy, not just SOME of the Galaxy, and not some Borg Galaxy) and then at the end of the game BRICK WALL, YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR!

---  I was playing Multiplayer with someone yesterday, had just met him.  I asked him about which of the endings he picks as his "canon" ending.  He didn't answer, he said that he just likes to blow **** up.  Then he (not I, HE) initiated a conversation about how Shepard wasn't really the player's CHARACTER, but that we got to experience things THROUGH Shepard, but not really BE Shepard.  Not wanting to cause drama that would make us lose the match, I neglected to mention how we can, in fact, shape Shepard's history, physiology, sexuality, and personality.  Which, to me, are everything a person IS (provided that the sum of those parts equals the rather abstract concept referred to as Self or Soul or Geth.)

On that note, I think that I'm going to start referring to the sum of all my parts as my Geth.  I mean, when I take all the information I have and try to reach an internal decision, based on conflicting emotions, logic, morals, desires, whatever... aren't I just trying to form a Consensus?

But yeah.  Semi-related: man, why can't people who unlock the N7 classes in Multi actually learn how to USE THEM?!  I am SO tired of people in the snazziest armor in the Galaxy sucking and dying, while my Turian Sentinel, who I've had in name and build since the DEMO, is ripping up the battlefield.

#3356
Bolt-Action

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[quote]Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do. [/quote]

You must choose a side-initially (I went with Quarians) then Legion steps up and says his bit, then you're given the choice for peace.

[/quote]
Ah thank you, now I feel dumb. 
Sorry for hijacking the thread. ^^;

No worries! Shep must choose "no more death" and peace will be achieved. I pick the Quarians initially because....what else can I say-I love Tali (the traits BW put into her, remind me of a few ex-girlfriends), so, she immediately caught my attention, plus the Asari, have no sexual organs or gender so that creeps me out. I know I know TMI LOL
[/quote]

Modifié par Bolt-Action, 21 juillet 2012 - 05:39 .


#3357
3DandBeyond

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

I've played games that left me depressed and entertained.  That's because the game always had an atmosphere of depression.  It's possible, and sometimes even PREFERABLE to have a game like that.  It's tougher to make, but can be more poignant.

The problem is ME wasn't that.  I always stood up and said "We can make it on our own!  We don't have to compromise who we are to carry on into the future!  Survival isn't enough, we will TRIUMPH!!!!"  And that was ALWAYS true... until the Starboy shows up.  If throughout the ENTIRE GAME I tried to take the moral high ground and paid grave prices, if staying true to myself ALWAYS made me and others pay high prices, THEN the endings would fit.  But that's not how it was.

There's only ONE set of circumstances where doing the right thing had a negative reprocusssion.  That was Mordin.  If you're a D-bag, you CAN get Mordin to survive.  But you lose Wrex.  So it's not even a true moral thing, you can reduce it to a trade off.

In a Mass Effect where Shepard could constantly lose friends if he tries to have it all, THEN these endings would be great.  But instead, we have a Mass Effect where Shepard can be the Galaxy's Savior (The ENTIRE Galaxy, not just SOME of the Galaxy, and not some Borg Galaxy) and then at the end of the game BRICK WALL, YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR!

---  I was playing Multiplayer with someone yesterday, had just met him.  I asked him about which of the endings he picks as his "canon" ending.  He didn't answer, he said that he just likes to blow **** up.  Then he (not I, HE) initiated a conversation about how Shepard wasn't really the player's CHARACTER, but that we got to experience things THROUGH Shepard, but not really BE Shepard.  Not wanting to cause drama that would make us lose the match, I neglected to mention how we can, in fact, shape Shepard's history, physiology, sexuality, and personality.  Which, to me, are everything a person IS (provided that the sum of those parts equals the rather abstract concept referred to as Self or Soul or Geth.)

On that note, I think that I'm going to start referring to the sum of all my parts as my Geth.  I mean, when I take all the information I have and try to reach an internal decision, based on conflicting emotions, logic, morals, desires, whatever... aren't I just trying to form a Consensus?

But yeah.  Semi-related: man, why can't people who unlock the N7 classes in Multi actually learn how to USE THEM?!  I am SO tired of people in the snazziest armor in the Galaxy sucking and dying, while my Turian Sentinel, who I've had in name and build since the DEMO, is ripping up the battlefield.


Yes, that's the world or part of the lore the story creates.  You follow that.  The reason Mordin's sacrifice works (and does so better than killing Wrex) is because it's a choice he makes with reason, thought, and care.  It's horribly sad, but incredibly noble, and it fills your heart with both joy and sadness.  But it tends to reaffirm your love of that character.  There's nothing wrong with playing it some other way but that too fits in with the ME world based upon your Shepard, values, and so on.

But even if you are some ruthless, renegade, badass in the game and story, that doesn't mean that the world of ME doesn't conclude actions of yours are right no matter what.  There is morality in the story even if Shepard abandons them.  And there's also logic as to what any person would do.

You hit the nail on the head as far as just what ME1 was, as far as the fans it appealed to and what ME3 tried to be.  The endings actually more appeal kind of to those who want to blow stuff up and yet you don't blow stuff up.  But those that really liked the endings of ME1 and 2 or like them better, really tend to be more story oriented. 

More action oriented think the endings look and sound cool.  Those that liked a balance between action and story in ME games, think they are poorly written and don't fit the story.

And in a very real way yes you do become Shepard-Shepard is who you create to do things you'd do or would like to do.  You experience the things yourself, because you provide Shepard's reaction to the experiences.


As for MP.  It is hit or miss.  In Bronze games, more often than not I find (except when playing with friends) that I am the top scorer and I'm not that good.  On the xbox, there are not too many others that want to do any of the missions and most games start with 2 players with others maybe joining.  But I see people as Krogan that think all that means is melee and I end up reviving people constantly.  The newer classes, I haven't had much experience with yet.  I was lucky to unlock a Quarian Male Engineer and a Vorcha, but I don't ever get anything that's much good using up my credits.  I get a lot of shotgun and pistol stuff when my favorite weapon is the Revenant.  I can't tell you how many Premium packs I've gotten with credits where I've just gotten junk I never use.  So, I usually stick with the Engineer, Vanguard or soldier--mostly human female for vanguard and soldier and the quarian male for engineer, and I usually end up with way more than 75 kills in bronze games even when I'm the only one doing the missions.  And I'm not that good so go figure.

#3358
Ieldra

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Nyaore wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.


did you have Legion and did all the Rannoch side missions?

Yes. Everything was done to make it work. (Missions done, Tali and Legion at full loyalty from ME2, Koris saved, etc.) The EC is the only new variable.

It is still possible to make peace. I've just finished a game where I made peace.

#3359
Bolt-Action

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May seem simple, may seem boring or bland. But I wanted a happy ending. I wanted that whole; slow mo. team sweeps in and saves Shep. And a nice cut scene of Shep and his L1, but, now that I think of it, that does not sound boring or bland. simple? Sure! But it works for me.

Modifié par Bolt-Action, 21 juillet 2012 - 06:32 .


#3360
Eliza

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Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

#3361
AngryFrozenWater

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Nyaore wrote...

I have a quick question, does the EC now prevent peace between the Geth and Quarians? I got to that point in the story on my newest game, first with the EC installed, did everything to get the option to make peace (literally, I have almost every needed variable cited on the wikia accounted for), only to find that I was forced to choose between the two instead of forcing them to work together like I should have been able to do.


did you have Legion and did all the Rannoch side missions?

Yes. Everything was done to make it work. (Missions done, Tali and Legion at full loyalty from ME2, Koris saved, etc.) The EC is the only new variable.

It is still possible to make peace. I've just finished a game where I made peace.

And what good does that peace do? You sell them a little while later, anyway. Destroy means the genocide of the geth. Control means the enslavement of the geth. Synthesis means that the geth have been forced into something they have explicitly said they do not want.

---

Legion: The Old Machines offered to give us our future. The geth will achieve their own future.

Shepard: What difference does it make how you acquire a certain technology?

Legion: Technology is not a straight line. There are many paths to the same end. Accepting another's path blinds you to alternatives. Nazara - Sovereign - said this itself. "Your civilization is based upon the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire."

---

Shepard: That's what Sovereign offered you. A reaper's body for you to all upload into.

Legion: Yes. A shortcut to our objective. We will achieve it ourselves. The process is as important as the result.

---

But no, the elitist Shepard has decided that it is better to infect everyone with synthesis without their consent. Screw the right of self-determination. Shepard's naive dreams are more important than upholding the values that he/she showed in much of the rest of the game.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 juillet 2012 - 07:03 .


#3362
AngryFrozenWater

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Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

That's a cute rationalization. It is still genocide. Shepard could have prevented that. And it is easy to do. By not trying Shepard was just as responsible.

#3363
Bolt-Action

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Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.


Why would you have the Quarians destroy the Geth? 
That is mutually beneficial relationship.
I'm not do sure destroying EDi would be so simple for my Shep. He helped to evolve (raise) awareness.

#3364
3DandBeyond

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Bolt-Action wrote...

May seem simple, may seem boring or bland. But I wanted a happy ending. I wanted that whole; slow mo. team sweeps in and saves Shep. And a nice cut scene of Shep and his L1, but, now that I think of it, that does not sound boring or bland. simple? Sure! But it works for me.


Why do most successful stories, movies, tv shows, games even with LIs in them conclusively show what happens to the 2 participants in the romance as part of any epilogue?  Because that's what people want and on some level that is what they need.  It makes the story whole.

#3365
BlueStorm83

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Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.


---  That's actually one of the problems I have with the Game:  A renegade Shepard who never gave a damn about anything besides saving Humanity can have his cake and eat it too.  Humanity saved?  Check.  Reapers dead?  Check.  Love Interest alive and present? (Ashley or Kaiden only) Check.  Magic Torso revival in the rubble, implying what might be an eventual reunion?  Check.

Paragon Shepard who championed rights, freedom, individuality, and cooperation?  Let's see what he wanted and what he got.

Let everyone make their own way?  Nope.  Save all his allies?  Nope.  Show the Galaxy that it doesn't matter how different people are, that we're all able to live together?  Nope.  Survive to reunite with his Love Interest?  Nope!  Destroy the Reapers?  NOPE!  Denounce everything that the Reapers stand for, which he's already disproven?  NOPE!!!

So, in the Mass Effect Universe, Nice Guys Finish Last.

Now, call me crazy, but this is a BULL**** thing to do to me.  I'm a Nice Guy in REALITY.  And I get shafted left and right by ****s who don't give a damn about other people.  I play videogames to get some small satisfaction from being able to do the right thing AND get what I want. 

#3366
3DandBeyond

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

That's a cute rationalization. It is still genocide. Shepard could have prevented that. And it is easy to do. By not trying Shepard was just as responsible.


Shepard can live with killing EDI?  Well, assuming torso Shepard has a head and eyes, let's see that Shepard look Joker in the eye ever again.  Joker hero worshipped Shepard and would die for Shepard and Shepard kills his heart, not in some firefight where casualties do happen, but in one intentional act because the writers turned smart, thinking, caring, planning, ever plotting Shepard who always thought outside the box and found ways to do impossible things into brainless let's just get this over Shepard.

#3367
Bolt-Action

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 Exactly 3D!!!
Why is this so hard to understand for BW?!

I had a CO, that I admired immensely, he moulded the values of what a proper CO SHOULD be. Showed me, no matter how dire a situation, there's always hope. Look for the opening, the hole, the opportunity and exploit it. Forged me into thinking beyond myself, beyond the now and one step ahead. My CO put his men even before himself. When he left, I snapped off a proper salute, which he immediately slapped away, and embraced me. Something happens, when you place your life in others hands on a daily basis. What's the point? Simple. No one on the Normandy would have left Shep behind or betray him or each other for that matter. 
Shep wouldn't be callous enough to say "hey, joker, don't mind me, just here to kill your GF."  or "Now you Quarians and Geth make up, so I can wipe the Geth out later, you know Quarians, just as you learn to depend on the Geth again."
Joker-Shep already died once saving Joker
Garrus-how many times did Shep pull his ass out of the fire? Not gonna happen.
EDi-Shep taught her the value of life, free will. Nope, she already said its worth dying for
Kaiden-he's struggled with his betrayal of Shep throughout ME3, he won't do it again
Tali-she's my Sheps girl, from #2 not gonna happen
Doc- sorry ain't happening
Liara-nope, she's still in love with my Shep from #1
James-he's the only possible wildcard, but after my Shep and him had a meeting of the minds (my Shep putting him on his ass) I believe James finally understood what it was all about.
Furthermore; life can be hard, unfair, stressful and unjust. I personally play as an escape or a momentarily release from stress. I don't need a game to remind me of how tough it can be sometimes. So yeah, I want a happy ending-thanks  

Modifié par Bolt-Action, 21 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .


#3368
AngryFrozenWater

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3DandBeyond wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

That's a cute rationalization. It is still genocide. Shepard could have prevented that. And it is easy to do. By not trying Shepard was just as responsible.

Shepard can live with killing EDI?  Well, assuming torso Shepard has a head and eyes, let's see that Shepard look Joker in the eye ever again.  Joker hero worshipped Shepard and would die for Shepard and Shepard kills his heart, not in some firefight where casualties do happen, but in one intentional act because the writers turned smart, thinking, caring, planning, ever plotting Shepard who always thought outside the box and found ways to do impossible things into brainless let's just get this over Shepard.

Can my Shepard "live with killing EDI"? Of course not. Any more questions?

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 22 juillet 2012 - 02:24 .


#3369
V-rcingetorix

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@3DandBeyond;

That's exactly how the original ending (and the EC) feels to me. "We've spent enough time on this cash cow, let's just get it over with. We put in enough effort for a B+, just let it drop."

#3370
TGiNcRySiS

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Okay, so first off I think ME3 up to the ending is a great game. The endings are bad and the EC endings do not change that. Although telling the little boy to F*** off is nice. So why do I want to do a third playthrough? The game is just too good from start to almost finish. I got my "perfect" extended cut ending shouldn't I want to move on? Well I found a site to download different ME2 import saves and I think working off of those could be fun. People have made some odd choices that would be interesting to see even if the ending is trash. Do others feel this way?

#3371
xDeluCx

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I don't understand why bioware won't just step out if their own way spend a few days on working on an ending we the loyal gamers would like see aka shepard doing more than inhaling ONCE charge us $5 for us and not only do they make a giant profit all across america but they won't have to deal with people like us complaining about the fail endings they dished out. But tey are too stubborn and too lazy to realize that so they will just have to deal with people spitting on everything they stand for. It's all they have to do to turn me3 into a bioware success instead of biggest fail in their game producing history

#3372
xDeluCx

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My suggestion to everyone furious with bioware's ending to one of the greatest games ever enload your comaints. They know what we want believe me and I'm sure everyone knows that but don't let them forget and make THIS discussion page become a nightmare and don't let up until they give us a exceptional ending because if this goes long enough they will eventually give in.

Modifié par xDeluCx, 22 juillet 2012 - 06:45 .


#3373
DirtyPhoenix

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AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Control means the enslavement of the geth.


I'm sorry but where did you get this from??

Shepard's naive dreams are more important than upholding the values that he/she showed in much of the rest of the game.


Do they have to be mutually exclusive? For you maybe, but for me it wasn't.

#3374
LordMilitantAlex

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Tali LI: Come back to me.....I have a home.

Me: I was going to choose destory anyway, but DAMN I would like to see the heartless bastard that left Tali with no one to snuggle.

#3375
V-rcingetorix

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Liara: If you're sure about this...I have to know, will you come back? I know you, and when the reapers do come, you will be in the thick of the fight.

Shepard promised both in ME2 and ME3. What writer made Shepard break that promise?