4048 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Shepard: Are you ready?
Ash LI: I'm ready
Shepard: Then let's get it done, and go home.
Ash LI: Aye aye, captain.

Bioware, Shepard got it done, now let him go home!

[3DandBeyond]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

Liara: If you're sure about this...I have to know, will you come back? I know you, and when the reapers do come, you will be in the thick of the fight.

Shepard promised both in ME2 and ME3. What writer made Shepard break that promise?

You have to understand, to some people the word "promise" means exactly nothing. Make one (or a hundred) about the game, who cares?  Meaningless.  Make one (or a hundred) in the game and it's less than meaningless.

Also, there seem to be a lot of people "over there" with old timer's disease.  They can't remember anything that happened at any time before in "their" games. 

You know when I say something I've created is "mine", I really do tend to want it to be the best I can possibly make.  With ME3, ME went from being a collaboration between fans and devs to Bioware's artistic vision (their glasses are broken).  So, the damage to the game and series is all on them.  They own genocide, molestation, and totalitarianism as new best "wins" for gaming and the adherence to self-determination, bravery, honor, morality, and denial of the inevitable as the way to "lose" in gaming.  Irresponsible, IMO.

[BlueStorm83]

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

Okay, so first off I think ME3 up to the ending is a great game. The endings are bad and the EC endings do not change that. Although telling the little boy to F*** off is nice. So why do I want to do a third playthrough? The game is just too good from start to almost finish. I got my "perfect" extended cut ending shouldn't I want to move on? Well I found a site to download different ME2 import saves and I think working off of those could be fun. People have made some odd choices that would be interesting to see even if the ending is trash. Do others feel this way?

I'm on the fence as to this, honestly.  I did like it all up to the end, unquestioningly.  But honestly, I don't think I could go through again.  I mean, I take some nice walks.  None of those walks would be worth it on the condition that when I get back home, someone's gonna kick me in the boys.  I don't know.

[BlueStorm83]

pirate1802 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Control means the enslavement of the geth.

I'm sorry but where did you get this from??

Shepard's naive dreams are more important than upholding the values that he/she showed in much of the rest of the game.

Do they have to be mutually exclusive? For you maybe, but for me it wasn't.

If they're mutually exclusive for even one permutation of Shepard and Player, then the ending has failed.  The purpose of a product is to generate as many sales and as much positive feedback as possible.  The purpose of a piece of art is to touch and resonate with as many people as possible, to get a message across.  To me, the entire message/point/enjoyment/art of Mass Effect went right out the window.  Others feel the same way.  I can accept that maybe it worked for some people, maybe even most people.  But there's no reason why the game couldn't have permutations for all Shepards.  If Your Shepard might be a hetero male humans first born on a colony with no Love Interest, and my Shepard might be a lesbian female xenophile from space who believes that the Geth are a life form, a THIRD Shepard can be a gay male xenophile who was born on earth but believes machines are just machines.  And there's still plenty of permutations to craft a shepard.  Why then in the end, does only Renegade, Machine Hating, Human-Loving Destroy Shepard get what can be assumed is "Everything?"

[Eliza]

Bolt-Action wrote...

Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

Why would you have the Quarians destroy the Geth? 
That is mutually beneficial relationship.

I did not want to, but I had no choice - either the Quarians or the Geth had to die because Legion died during the Suicide Mission in Me 2. If that happens you have no chance to make peace in ME 3.

I'm not no sure destroying EDi would be so simple for my Shep. He helped to evolve (raise) awareness.

It's not easy for my Sheps, too, but if they are forced to make a decision between organics and synthetics they will go with the organics.

[Bolt-Action]

LordMilitantAlex wrote...

Tali LI: Come back to me.....I have a home.

Me: I was going to choose destory anyway, but DAMN I would like to see the heartless bastard that left Tali with no one to snuggle.

In agreement 100%
But how sad is it, that you have to say, don't leave me....I mean wth?!

[Bolt-Action]

Eliza wrote...

Bolt-Action wrote...

Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

Why would you have the Quarians destroy the Geth? 
That is mutually beneficial relationship.

I did not want to, but I had no choice - either the Quarians or the Geth had to die because Legion died during the Suicide Mission in Me 2. If that happens you have no chance to make peace in ME 3.

I'm not no sure destroying EDi would be so simple for my Shep. He helped to evolve (raise) awareness.

It's not easy for my Sheps, too, but if they are forced to make a decision between organics and synthetics they will go with the organics.

Yeah, you're between a rock and a hard place there,  but you would have to admit, ideally, those would not be the easiest choices otherwise, I'd replay ME2, keep all of them alive

[BlueStorm83]

Eliza wrote...

Bolt-Action wrote...

Eliza wrote...

Genocide in destroy is not a moral comprise. It is genocide.

If the Quarians destroyed the Geth (this happened in one of my playthroughs) there is no genocide Shep is responsible for. Then only EDI has to be sacrificed in the end if you chose destroy. That's a sacrifice my Sheps can live with.

Why would you have the Quarians destroy the Geth? 
That is mutually beneficial relationship.

I did not want to, but I had no choice - either the Quarians or the Geth had to die because Legion died during the Suicide Mission in Me 2. If that happens you have no chance to make peace in ME 3.

I'm not no sure destroying EDi would be so simple for my Shep. He helped to evolve (raise) awareness.

It's not easy for my Sheps, too, but if they are forced to make a decision between organics and synthetics they will go with the organics.

After all was said and done, I'd rather kill the Reapers and all ORGANICS, and leave only the Geth.  I think the Geth would have been damn good costodians of the Galaxy, considering all that we've done together and everything I've helped them learn.  But whatever, we had to be Artistic and do horrible things to everyone.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

Okay, so first off I think ME3 up to the ending is a great game. The endings are bad and the EC endings do not change that. Although telling the little boy to F*** off is nice. So why do I want to do a third playthrough? The game is just too good from start to almost finish. I got my "perfect" extended cut ending shouldn't I want to move on? Well I found a site to download different ME2 import saves and I think working off of those could be fun. People have made some odd choices that would be interesting to see even if the ending is trash. Do others feel this way?

I'm on the fence as to this, honestly.  I did like it all up to the end, unquestioningly.  But honestly, I don't think I could go through again.  I mean, I take some nice walks.  None of those walks would be worth it on the condition that when I get back home, someone's gonna kick me in the boys.  I don't know.

This is it exactly.  I want to enjoy playing it again.  The endings mess that all up.

The ending color how I see the rest of the games.  Cure the genophage?  Why bother?  Talk with Sovereign?  Meaningless, according to Bioware this never happened because the kid contradicts everything Sovereign says.  That means that the awesome bad guy Sovereign was really was kind of stupid and didn't know what he was talking about.  In the end he was a trained lap dog.  Gain the loyalty of crew mates in ME2?  What for?  And why talk to EDI and Joker at all, if you are just going to kill EDI at the end-or listen to her tell me how good immortality and synthesis is when I know it isn't?

Why load ME1?  Just so I as the player can see the Krogan with babies in a slide at the end, but never see Shepard alive and able to possibly enjoy the fruits of his/her labor and sacrifice?

Why do anything at all?  Why do all those repetitive Mako missions-they were fun since I figured there'd be a longterm payoff.  Since there wasn't they are pointless and boring.  Why scan planets or do fetch quests in the games at all?  War assets are meaningless-they should be left where they are.  Why create another Shepard face-I had so looked forward to a full on renegade ruthless ugly Shepard.  But why do that now?  The whole ending encompasses all that a super ruthless character would do.  And forget about going full paragon at all.  There's no last goodbye given to a decent moral Shepard's face-the face I and you created.  For all we know that face flew off and is stuck against some wall in the citadel, since it's been forever forgotten by Bioware. 

Shepard helped build Bioware, so in one last act that directly contradicts what the star kid says, Bioware has shown the created can and will be destroyed by the creator.  The quarians created the geth and tried to destroy them.  The Salarians and Turians "created" the advanced Krogan and tried to destroy them.  The star kid himself seems to indicate if it's true that he will allow you to destroy his creations.  And Bioware and the player created Shepard.  In the end the player (the creator) must destroy Shepard, because the co-creator demands it.  In doing this, Bioware the creator has also helped to destroy another created thing or two, ME and even themselves and their reputation.  Ah, the power of one mess of an ending.

[dtox666]

That was great. Glad to see that after months of listening to customers complaints and understanding them and their valid reasons for being upset that Bioware spent long days and many man-hours replacing the original sucktastic (non)ending with a slightly longer sucktastic (non)ending that's basically the same.

Silly me, I wouldn't have thought alienating your customers away from your products and brand would be a good business model. Looking at ME3 and SWTOR I have to ask, How well is that working out for you EA/BW? What's that? Sorry--you're too busy laying off people to answer?

[Bolt-Action]

Bingo
Would anyone actually take part in any activity, if you're told "there's no winning, beating or completion..." ie no enjoyment, all choices= same result- for all intents and purposes.
doubtful.
But that's exactly what we're given with ME3, I could have continued to play ME2 in ignorant bliss.
The truly sad part is, ME3 was shaping up to be a truly brilliant game, and then, the ending-blah
Your crew betrays and abandons you, your military has amnesia (Shepard? Who's that?) and the rest of the ME universe is dancing around saying "WE did it" it just leaves an all around bad taste in my mouth.
Unless you choose to believe all the theories...

[My nick rules]

Okay, so I've wanted to put in my opinion here ever since I finished the EC like three weeks ago, but I haven't had the time. I'm probably just going to repeat what others have already said, but hell, I just want to vent, really. And do all I can to make BioWare realize that they screwed up. Bad. So here goes.

Okay, so the EC fixed some of the major problems with the ending, for sure. And that's a good thing. The problem is that in doing so, it also made the Indoctrination Theory completely unbelievable. This means that the ending goes back from "potentially brilliant" to "mediocre" at best.

Also, the EC doesn't fix all of the in-game plot holes. It doesn't explain how captain Anderson got to the control panel before Shepard, or how the Illusive man managed to show up behind Shepard, or why there were two control panels to open the arms of the Citadel (remember, in ME1, Shepard opened the Citadel arms from the Council Chambers. Why have two panels? (One could argue that the one Shepard uses in ME3 is really for he keepers, but it appears to me to be clearly adapted to humanoids, and not the much smaller keepers)), or why there is human lettering on the final stage. Of course, there are more plot-holes, but I don't think that i have the time or the patience to comment on them all.

I'd say that the explanation for these holes is simply lack of time, patience, and thoroughness on BioWare's part, coupled with simple storytelling-tricks (I have for example excluded the Carnifex gun with the infinite amount of ammo and the inability to shoot Anderson or the keeper, as there really isn't anything strange about that, as long as you keep in mind that it's a game, and not real life). However, this is not how I want the ending to such an epic tale to be. I want it to hold the quality of the rest of the series.

And of course, it's the thematic problems. I mean, really, BioWare? Did you have some fill-in-writer who hadn't even played the games write the ending? It's just so... off. I don't even wan't to go into it. Other people have already covered this.

The main problem with the ending (EC included) its that it utterly destroys my feelings for the rest of the series as well. I thought that Mass Effect 1 was fantastic, Mass Effect 2 was one of the best games I've ever played, and Mass Effect 3 was brilliant (with the exception of the streamlined conversations, which I didn't really care for) up until the very end. However, when I think back on all the good in Mass Effect, I can't help but just feel sad at the fact that the ending destroyed it all. It also destroys all my hopes of another playthrough, which is a shame. I really wanted to go through the whole thing again, but now that I know that it's all just going to end in huge disappointment, I just can't bear to do it.

What perhaps pisses me off the most is the attitude that BioWare has against their fans. The EC proves that BioWare have got a clear case of hubris. Instead of listening to perfectly valid arguments, and saying "Okay, you're right, we screwed up. Let's try to solve this together.", we get "No, we're right, you're wrong. Our ending is great. It's just you who don't get them.". And the want for the option to refute the options, does not give us a spectacular final fight (where War Assets could be beautifully integrated to actually make a difference), we get the equivalence of a "You Lose"-screen, like a slap in the face for not wanting to conform to their "artistic vision".

BioWare clearly seems to put their "artistic vision" before their fans. And that is something that I cannot tolerate. I hope that this leviathan of a messup (hehe, leviathan... I'm so sorry) damages their reputation good. I for one am not trusting BioWare again unless they give us a decent ending to the fantastic tale that is Mass Effect. The most used argument that BioWare have put forward for not wanting to change the ending fundamentally has been that "Then it wouldn't be our ending". And with the Extended Cut, they have clearly shown that this is exactly how it is. This is their ending. Not ours. Their game. Their series. Their story. Not ours. And for this complete lack of respect for your fans, I will never forgive you, BioWare.

[xDeluCx]

I think ME has no replay value because no matter what you do you know exactly what the future holds and it would be one thing of the future held an ending that was not trash but it dorado I couldn't play any games over even though ever mass effect was brilliant up until the last 10 minutes.

[xDeluCx]

I also find it very funny that just about everyone who has played me3 hate the ending and want the same thing from bioware a happy ending for Shepard and bioware can't even argue with that fact because the forms prove it.

[3DandBeyond]

xDeluCx wrote...

I also find it very funny that just about everyone who has played me3 hate the ending and want the same thing from bioware a happy ending for Shepard and bioware can't even argue with that fact because the forms prove it.

Twitter is their home.  I've only once ever seen a dev comment on anything here directly.  Mike Gamble and it was to say that the endings did completely answer everything.  The krogans for example, he said.  I asked why in dealing with the kid the geth/quarian solution was completely ignored and I got silence-he had moved on.  And then on twitter where all the devs go to fill in the ME3 story, I asked one employee why at first she specifically said there would be a reunion, then she had said it was clear there was one since it was implied, and why now other devs say the gasp scene means Shepard dies.  She said she had always said it was either death or life in that scene.  And she told me if I didn't like to move on.  Fine business attitude.  Fine way to treat customers.  They never come here where registered buyers are but discuss dreams they have on twitter.  And retcon ME there as well.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 juillet 2012 - 06:23 .

[Bolt-Action]

Furthermore, BW wants to call it "art"
"Art" isn't created for the masses, "Art" is created by an artist, for an artist. The artist doesn't take into account anything other, than what they want/feel anyone else be damned.....errr wait....aw crap nevermind

[TGiNcRySiS]

Bolt-Action wrote...

Furthermore, BW wants to call it "art"
"Art" isn't created for the masses, "Art" is created by an artist, for an artist. The artist doesn't take into account anything other, than what they want/feel anyone else be damned.....errr wait....aw crap nevermind

Well if that is what they think all you can do is hurt them in the pockets.  Sadly it is hard to do since other games do come out and are good.  EA is a major publisher and is difficult to avoid.  But they and Bioware ruined not 1 but 2 terrific game series.  DA2 was absolute trash compared to DAO.  I mean you finish DA2 and go wow at least I have ME3 to look forward to then you play that a go wow I have Bioware getting flamed to look forward to.

[Bolt-Action]

EA may be difficult considering all their popular sports title.
It's simple really,
ME3 NEEDS HAPPY ENDING
(no not a massage parlor...never mind)
That's all we're asking for, pretty easy and reasonable.

[Delaney]

My nick rules wrote...

Okay, so I've wanted to put in my opinion here ever since I finished the EC like three weeks ago, but I haven't had the time. I'm probably just going to repeat what others have already said, but hell, I just want to vent, really. And do all I can to make BioWare realize that they screwed up. Bad. So here goes.

Okay, so the EC fixed some of the major problems with the ending, for sure. And that's a good thing. The problem is that in doing so, it also made the Indoctrination Theory completely unbelievable. This means that the ending goes back from "potentially brilliant" to "mediocre" at best.

Also, the EC doesn't fix all of the in-game plot holes. It doesn't explain how captain Anderson got to the control panel before Shepard, or how the Illusive man managed to show up behind Shepard, or why there were two control panels to open the arms of the Citadel (remember, in ME1, Shepard opened the Citadel arms from the Council Chambers. Why have two panels? (One could argue that the one Shepard uses in ME3 is really for he keepers, but it appears to me to be clearly adapted to humanoids, and not the much smaller keepers)), or why there is human lettering on the final stage. Of course, there are more plot-holes, but I don't think that i have the time or the patience to comment on them all.

I'd say that the explanation for these holes is simply lack of time, patience, and thoroughness on BioWare's part, coupled with simple storytelling-tricks (I have for example excluded the Carnifex gun with the infinite amount of ammo and the inability to shoot Anderson or the keeper, as there really isn't anything strange about that, as long as you keep in mind that it's a game, and not real life). However, this is not how I want the ending to such an epic tale to be. I want it to hold the quality of the rest of the series.

And of course, it's the thematic problems. I mean, really, BioWare? Did you have some fill-in-writer who hadn't even played the games write the ending? It's just so... off. I don't even wan't to go into it. Other people have already covered this.

The main problem with the ending (EC included) its that it utterly destroys my feelings for the rest of the series as well. I thought that Mass Effect 1 was fantastic, Mass Effect 2 was one of the best games I've ever played, and Mass Effect 3 was brilliant (with the exception of the streamlined conversations, which I didn't really care for) up until the very end. However, when I think back on all the good in Mass Effect, I can't help but just feel sad at the fact that the ending destroyed it all. It also destroys all my hopes of another playthrough, which is a shame. I really wanted to go through the whole thing again, but now that I know that it's all just going to end in huge disappointment, I just can't bear to do it.

What perhaps pisses me off the most is the attitude that BioWare has against their fans. The EC proves that BioWare have got a clear case of hubris. Instead of listening to perfectly valid arguments, and saying "Okay, you're right, we screwed up. Let's try to solve this together.", we get "No, we're right, you're wrong. Our ending is great. It's just you who don't get them.". And the want for the option to refute the options, does not give us a spectacular final fight (where War Assets could be beautifully integrated to actually make a difference), we get the equivalence of a "You Lose"-screen, like a slap in the face for not wanting to conform to their "artistic vision".

BioWare clearly seems to put their "artistic vision" before their fans. And that is something that I cannot tolerate. I hope that this leviathan of a messup (hehe, leviathan... I'm so sorry) damages their reputation good. I for one am not trusting BioWare again unless they give us a decent ending to the fantastic tale that is Mass Effect. The most used argument that BioWare have put forward for not wanting to change the ending fundamentally has been that "Then it wouldn't be our ending". And with the Extended Cut, they have clearly shown that this is exactly how it is. This is their ending. Not ours. Their game. Their series. Their story. Not ours. And for this complete lack of respect for your fans, I will never forgive you, BioWare.

I just want to point that out: Very well written! Worth a read. 100 % agree. So much for the "ME-series is the result between BW and the so great community"-thing ...

[dtox666]

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

Well if that is what they think all you can do is hurt them in the pockets.  Sadly it is hard to do since other games do come out and are good.  EA is a major publisher and is difficult to avoid.  But they and Bioware ruined not 1 but 2 terrific game series.  DA2 was absolute trash compared to DAO.  I mean you finish DA2 and go wow at least I have ME3 to look forward to then you play that a go wow I have Bioware getting flamed to look forward to.

More than two so far.  SWTOR is losing players so fast they're scrambling to make it free-to-play.

Rathing shocking to think this is the same company that gave us KOTOR1 and NeverWinter (among other all-time classics).  Maybe at this time they're only employing monkeys to save money?

[Captain McBuck]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

What did you expect, BlueStorm? An ending with no bad side effects *and* no moral compromise? That would've been utterly boring.

It *is* a bright future. There is a difference between murder/genocide and sacrificing people for victory in a war. It's your ending, so you know how your Control!Shepard will act in future, and the "abominations" (a term that shouldn't even exist) - the eyes are artistic representations of a mostly invisible change, and if the ability to seamlessly integrate technology is enough for you to use that term for people then that says something about you rather than about those people, doesn't it?

If you want the 10k year dark age back then you can always play low-EMS Destroy, but pardon me if I'm looking forward to a more interesting future for my ME universe. In any of the three main options.

Oh so now adhering to morality and your values is boring?  Gee just what do you do for fun?  It is not a bright future. 

Shepard that exerts control is no longer Shepard once becoming Shreaper.  Unless you think that all a person is is their intelligence and that emotion and feeling, empathy and caring and even hate mean nothing.  We aren't just what we think, we are even more what we feel.  Shreaper (the thing that controls the reapers) is no longer Shepard.  In fact, our morality (what Shreaper would think is right) comes even more from our emotions than it does from our intellect.  You have no idea how Shreaper will act in the future and the ominous tone of Control suggests it might not be good.  My paragon Shepard/Shreaper said the woman she was always knew she had to become something greater-no, she didn't.  No paragon ever thought that.  It also talks about taking care of the many-again not a paragon "thought".  Also, no one knows that Shepard is controlling them-they all think Shepard died.  And suddenly the reapers are fixing things and are policing the galaxy.  Do you honestly think no one will ever worry that they might attack again?  Do you honestly think everyone will just sing songs and hold hands and be happy with reapers living and working around them?  The reapers have people goo in them.  If you were living on Earth at the time, isn't it possible you might wonder which reaper "ate" your family and want the reapers gone?  Isn't it possible other people would? 

And what happens when old disagreements arise?  Think the Batarians will just all retire?  What if the Salarians and Krogan start fighting?  And the reapers fly in to stop the fighting?  That can't end well--who wins and who loses and which "many" does Shreaper protect?

A lot of people even in the ME "universe" see the use internally of tech as an abomination.  Choosing synthesis forces your "easy" choice on them without their consent.  And the change to people is unnatural and thus is an abomination.  Furthermore, it is complete drivel to say that the fusion of synthetics and organics is something that will one day naturally happen, that is unless the star kid is God.  In making it happen, you are buying into the idea that he is either psychic or a deity.  He was programmed by someone, so he is by virtue of that a fallible being with limits to his knowledge and yet he is telling you he knows all.  Also, by choosing synthesis you are solving his problem, achieving his goals and not yours. 

Where in 3 games did anyone other than the repugnant and insane and indoctrinated ever attempt synthesis?  Where in 3 games did Shepard ever indicate it sounded like a good idea.  Attempts to achieve it (overlord, Saren, Cerberus husks, collectors, the reapers themselves) have always been abominations.  So, now it's just great because it seems innocuous and is being offered by Mr. Innocent-in the form of a kid?  It is even abominable to select it based upon what he thinks it means.  He sees it as perfection and what all people aspire to become through tech.  Talk about warped.  He is tech so in one of the best examples of what racists think those inferior to them want, he is telling you that all people want to be more like him.  No they don't.  Perfection does not exist but when we talk about it we say it is in a baby's smile, or a beautiful day, or in the sleek lines of some designed work a person created.  It often exists within our emotions about things and not in the things themselves.  Nothing is perfect, but if it ever is then there's no way or reason to go beyond perfect.  Add to that the idea of immortality and I ask you can you really not see the problems that might come of it?  Krogan have babies.  Rachni have babies.  They both have a lot of babies.  Reapers still exist and are now what, controlling themselves?  This is not utopia.  And it is unnatural.  And it is forced.

So destroy.  Sacrifice in battle does happen, sure.  But the targeting of a whole race or whole races of people is intentional and is genocide.  They are not casualties of war, they are gratuitous victims on a lack of imagination or a persistent expression of punishment upon players of the game.  The choice could target reapers only but that would be too much like fun, so in choosing it morality is thrown out the window along with Shepard's heart.  And for good measure let's smash that heart and all those values and leave Shepard where such a selfish person as s/he deserves to be-under rubble and headless.  You cannot compare great freely offered sacrifice and death in battle to planned extermination of whole races of people.  My paragon Shepard said you don't condemn a race of people to extinction based upon what might happen AND you don't sacrifice some over here to save others over there.

There's a big difference between someone running forward willingly toward the enemy and dying and you being told by your enemy you must shoot someone in the head to save others.

So refuse seems natural and makes sense, but the writers decided that since you don't want to see how cool the other choices are, you need to be punished.  Game over, idiot.

None of these are victories and certainly not for the people I care about.  I care about Shepard, Shepard's friends and loved ones.  I care about the galaxy and even those that didn't want to save themselves. I care about this moment n time and not the future-one that may or may not happen, but also one the free and self-reliant people can attain.  But in caring about all that there have to be overriding factors that determine the quality of life after any victory and that is "is it moral, was it achieved with honor and values intact, with the heart leading the way, or was it achieved for expediency-was the easy road the one I traveled?"  You don't win at all costs or the costs are too high.  You win because it is the right thing to do and you did the right things to get there.  There's no "win" in ME3.

This pretty much sums up everything wrong with the ending(s).  In Comtrol - Shep had just told the Timmy that controling the reapers is a bad idea, and that he shouldn't bet humanities existance on it and yet here Shep is doing the same thng not five minutes later. the EC Did at least make clear that Freckles has gone nuts, he was given an imposable task by his creators, one he couldn't solve and went HAL9000 as a result - the only solution to the equasion was to remove the organics from it including his creators. but How long did Freckles try to achive his creators goals before he went HAL9000? hundreads? Thousands of years?. The Reapers out in Hawking Eta wasat least 37 Million years old, so we know the Reaepers have been at it that long at a minium. so Freckles says to sheohard she can take control and become the new Reaper CPU. "Shreaper" as you say. one of the main problems is how long until Shreaper goes insane - Freckles even as an AI tried for "a long time" to fix the problem" before the Cycles, how many thousands of years until Shreaper comes to the same conclusion? - that hte Cycle is the only way forward, or - How long can Shereaper maintan control over the Reapers - Given that Reapers have been shown to be individual entities  Sovereign himself said - "We are each a nation", How long until they give Shreaper the middle finger and just start killing again? - So by picking control your already taking a leap of faith when everyone who has tried it has either gone insane or Indoctrinated, and dominating entities with free-will. Well Done Paragon Shep.

In Synthisis - Shep is saying "I know best!" and forcing everyone to connect to everyone else in some  twisted form of Insturmentality where individuality is removed and we are all connected to everyone - including the reapers, which just screams "Bad idea!". In Theory, in the Vacume of thought as an insane AI with no rational in emotions or indivudiality it is the ideal solution. In Therory.  but lots of things work in therory but not so much in the real world. plus Focing this on everyone and everything is a huge violation of everyones right to free will and self deterination and we've -seen- at Sanctuary and Thesisa the reapers version of "Blending" Organic and Synthetic life, hardly what any one would want to become

In Destroy - Does Sacrifice happen in war? Certainly. Soliders have been sent to their deaths, and the soldiers themselves have gone there willingly, when the stakes were high enough and that their sacrifce would mean something. but there is a point, even in war when even "Ruthless Calculus" becomes less about Sacrificing the few for the many and more like outright murder. Could it be argued that Destroy is the most Ethical?..Ethical in the context of being the lesser of three evils  Ethical because it is what most reflects what shep has been fighting for through three games, because Mordan, Kaiden, Thane and even Legion gave everything , and becaue it gives an element of Justice for the tens of thousands of civilisations which have been harvested over the many cycles.

[Pinax]

TGiNcRySiS wrote...
Well if that is what they think all you can do is hurt them in the pockets.  Sadly it is hard to do since other games do come out and are good.  EA is a major publisher and is difficult to avoid.  But they and Bioware ruined not 1 but 2 terrific game series.  DA2 was absolute trash compared to DAO.  I mean you finish DA2 and go wow at least I have ME3 to look forward to then you play that a go wow I have Bioware getting flamed to look forward to.

I agree. Funny thing: these are the 2 titles I bought on pre-order after re-playing and really adoring the prequels and the latter parts of both were so unsatisfying. I am no longer pre-ordering, this looks like a bad curse, lol!

I tried to play DA2 few times and I was not even able to finish the game, when before I was counting minutes till it's release... Then it was exactely how you wrote "wow at least I have ME3 to look forward to" and then... the ME3 ending and EC which killed not only the last minutes of the game but the whole series. As many of you said before: why re-playing the ME games, when you know they do not really matter and all your effort is in vain.

So: yeah, no more pre-orders, double thinking before buying any BW game in the future, ideally not just after the release in case the game is not worth all that money. With broken heart but also with anger cancelling my SWTOR subscription in a small pocket protest against the company politics vs it's fans. And I am not the only one doing this.

[Eretikas]

dtox666 wrote...
That was great. Glad to see that after months of listening to customers complaints and understanding them and their valid reasons for being upset that Bioware spent long days and many man-hours replacing the original sucktastic (non)ending with a slightly longer sucktastic (non)ending that's basically the same.

Why would they listen to customers when they are like Midway Games - too big to fail?

[babachewie]

3DandBeyond wrote...

xDeluCx wrote...

I also find it very funny that just about everyone who has played me3 hate the ending and want the same thing from bioware a happy ending for Shepard and bioware can't even argue with that fact because the forms prove it.

Twitter is their home.  I've only once ever seen a dev comment on anything here directly.  Mike Gamble and it was to say that the endings did completely answer everything.  The krogans for example, he said.  I asked why in dealing with the kid the geth/quarian solution was completely ignored and I got silence-he had moved on.  And then on twitter where all the devs go to fill in the ME3 story, I asked one employee why at first she specifically said there would be a reunion, then she had said it was clear there was one since it was implied, and why now other devs say the gasp scene means Shepard dies.  She said she had always said it was either death or life in that scene.  And she told me if I didn't like to move on.  Fine business attitude.  Fine way to treat customers.  They never come here where registered buyers are but discuss dreams they have on twitter.  And retcon ME there as well.

They treat you so bad and you're still here posting crap everyday. Bioware owns you.  

[Bolt-Action]

^
I'm curious, so I'll bite, but,
Does it offend or bother you when someone posts their opinions about the ME3 ending?
I mean, you either dislike the ending or talk yourself into liking the ending.
You're obviously an ME fan, the Garrus avatar and the fact you're here proves that.
My point is simple, if someone talks themselves into liking the ME3 ending, I'm not going to berate them into not liking it, everyone's entitled to their opinion.. Hell, I think ME3 needs a happy ending, that's just me.
Heck, if I go to MC Ds and order a cheeseburger and they give me a chicken sandwich, I'll be taking it back.