4048 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

WhereEternityEnds wrote...

So....does anyone think Bioware is ever going to offer closure on Shepard's last scene, whether it be in DLC form or ME 4?  Or is it pretty much going to have to be like that one time you were touched inappropriately by your Uncle?  Just something you're going to have to live with? 

I would be fine with moving on from this debacle if I could at least get some closure on the perfect Destroy ending.  But as the saying goes...."Dead Shepards get closure.  Shepards who are alive get 'implications'."  A band-aid on a gushing wound is very apropo indeed.  They've said there will be no post-ending DLC but considering Bioware has lied to me on more than one occasion before this game was even released (hello press statements), I have zero reason to believe a single word that comes out of any Bioware employee's mouth at this point.  Casey Hudson could say the sky would be sunny tomorrow and I'd take that statement with a huge mountain of salt. 

Much as I'd like to see some real closure to that ending.  I don't think Bioware's interested in living Shepards.  To them, I think that breath scene is akin to the Shepard that died at the Collector Base.  It's in the game, but not to be taken seriously.

[Blackmercy2]

Like sH0tgUn jUliA says in every bottom line : "It is sad when the best part of the finale of a single player trilogy is the multi-player."

That explains it all.... ok i ve been very dissapointed with almost all endings .... but lets say we destroy all synthetics ... we still see Shep breathing...and and and ... AND THEN WTF ? still... its annoying after a point

[3DandBeyond]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

snipped....

Bold underline -- REAPERS LOWER THEIR MASS? wow this must be a new innovation since ME1. Do any of you remember how Sovereign's take off from Eden Prime looked like a really heavy ship taking off and using a hell of a lot of thrust to do it? It looked like a laborious task for the ship.

Well the change in mass thing is in a codex on reaper vulnerabilities

This is from the wiki-ME codex entry and it indicates they can be beaten...The very first sentence puts the lie to all the people that mimic what the writers of ME3 want them to repeat, that a conventional victory (even with unconventional tactics) is impossible.

Reaper Vulnerabilities data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.  Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated.

Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.  In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can
hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before
they are themselves destroyed.  The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength. 

Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren.  The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw. Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however, against Reapers flying in proper formation.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 24 juillet 2012 - 02:42 .

[V-rcingetorix]

3DandBeyond wrote...

johnj1979 wrote...

What was the point of Mass Effect 1?
What was the point of Mass Effect 2?
What was the point of making peace with different races?
What was the point of letting EDI and the Geth evolve?
What was the point of curing the genophage?
What was the point of War Assets?
What was the point Galactic Readiness?

The other questions that I ask myself are:
Why is the Normandy coming down to Earth to pick TWO crew members in the middle of a battle?
Why doesn't the Normandy while on Earth clear a path with its weapons and destroy the Reaper?
How is Shepard any different from the Reapers destroying the galaxy, the Salarians with the genophage and the Quarians with the Geth?
How do the Reapers take the Citadel when you have the Prothean program installed for Mass Effect 1 and Citadel defence from Mass Effect 3?
Why London and Earth so important to the Reapers?
How did Cerberus get the Human-Reaper and Collector technology when they were both destroyed in Mass Effect 2?
Why can't the Reapers be destroyed in Mass Effect 3 yet ONE human fleet could destroy ONE Reaper in Mass Effect 1

You raise very good questions.  We never find out what the obsession with humans in ME2 was all about.  The reason for the plague the collectors created on Omega.  We can destroy the collector base and it means nothing because somehow TIM got it all, but he didn't have an IFF to get through the Omega IV relay so how he got human reaper is anyone's guess.

The problem wasn't ever about Earth but was about saving the galaxy, so it all becomes about saving London as the focal point.  ME1 and 2 don't seem to have mattered at all.  If the catalyst existed then why didn't he help the reapers in ME1?  We will never know-perhaps he was taking a nap with his blanky.  And Harbinger must be on a break when the Normandy drops down in London to rescue the 2 teammates.  The Normandy should and could have turned towards Harbinger and probably destroyed him.  Reapers lower their mass on planets which weakens their shields.  I can only guess and someone would probably defend the writers and say that the conduit might have been "destroyed" so they didn't risk it.  But at the very least why not distract Harbinger so that someone could get to the conduit without having their armor shot off and without being half killed.  You know like Shepard.

Shepard in the end becomes either genocidal (destroy), the galaxy molester (synthesis), a reaper god (control), or gives up and commits galactic suicide.  I want all my games to be like this.

From what I got in ME2 (did more than a few playthroughs!), the Collectors were interested in humans because they were the oens whom killed a Reaper. How many civilizations had managed that in the past, other than Protheans? If the tendency is to enslave a sample population for killing a reaper, than only three ever did it: Keepers, Protheans (Collectors) and humans.

How did TIM get through the Omega relay? Space magic.

But an excellent comparison arises for the Artistic endings." Although it is sometimes difficult to determine the differences, I have seen both types in college. Let me explain.

As a double major (History and Biology), I have to write a lot of papers. My colleagues must write a lot of papers. The students I tutor must write a lot of papers. You know the most common type of paper I see? The paper written last minute, maybe a week before the due date, with minimal research. Basically, the student read the material at the beginning of the semester; maybe he has a good memory, maybe not, in any case, he writes the paper based on memory and a few quotes he found by randomly flipping through the pages of the textbook.

Call it artistic, and he gets a better grade. Call it sloppy, and he sues the college for "limiting his freedom of speech" or just stroming down the hallway in a huff. Thankfully, I have never seen either of these happen, but I have had colleagues whom have.

So then, is this Extended Cut "Artistic" or sloppy? Given the plotholes, critiqued by an audience of millions, I vote sloppy. Extended Cut is just the writer submitting a re-written paper for extra credit. Polished garbage is still garbage.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

3DandBeyond wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

snipped....

Bold underline -- REAPERS LOWER THEIR MASS? wow this must be a new innovation since ME1. Do any of you remember how Sovereign's take off from Eden Prime looked like a really heavy ship taking off and using a hell of a lot of thrust to do it? It looked like a laborious task for the ship.

Well the change in mass thing is in a codex on reaper vulnerabilities

This is from the wiki-ME codex entry and it indicates they can be beaten...The very first sentence puts the lie to all the people that mimic what the writers of ME3 want them to repeat, that a conventional victory (even with unconventional tactics) is impossible.

Reaper Vulnerabilities data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.  Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated.

Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.  In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can
hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before
they are themselves destroyed.  The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength. 

Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren.  The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw. Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however, against Reapers flying in proper formation.

Good points. So they ignore ME1 once again due to its unavailability for the PS3. I must remember only the main points of that story matter. None of the lore from that story matters at all -- it never happened. Genesis is the only way it happened.

There is another strategy. Ignore the Reaper capital ships and just devastate the destroyers and transports. Capital ships by themselves cannot win a war. They cannot hold the worlds. They need the destroyers and transports to do that.

It looked like Hackett was ignoring the smaller ships and focusing on the capital ships. In a potentially long war -- as in suppose the Crucible didn't work -- this was a fool's gambit.

It might give the Allied forces an opportunity to build replacements like the Geth could tirelessly crank out replacement vessels for all fleets. Of course, we would owe them a homeworld, sector, and say in galactic politics afterward, but if they did that I'd say they earned it. There would be no way in hell I'd sacrifice them.

So if the writers had allowed it a conventional victory might have been possible.

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

snipped....

Bold underline -- REAPERS LOWER THEIR MASS? wow this must be a new innovation since ME1. Do any of you remember how Sovereign's take off from Eden Prime looked like a really heavy ship taking off and using a hell of a lot of thrust to do it? It looked like a laborious task for the ship.

Well the change in mass thing is in a codex on reaper vulnerabilities

This is from the wiki-ME codex entry and it indicates they can be beaten...The very first sentence puts the lie to all the people that mimic what the writers of ME3 want them to repeat, that a conventional victory (even with unconventional tactics) is impossible.

Reaper Vulnerabilities data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
Although clearly technologically superior to the Citadel forces, the Reapers have experienced casualties in the battles across the galaxy. This indicates that, theoretically, with the right intelligence, weapons, and strategy, the Reapers could be defeated.  Unlike the mass effect relays that they created, Reapers do not have quantum shields. Locking itself down at a quantum level would leave a Reaper unaware of its surroundings until the shielding deactivated.

Instead, Reapers rely on kinetic barriers.  In the case of a Reaper capital ship, these kinetic barriers can
hold off the firepower of two dreadnoughts simultaneously, but three clearly causes strain, and four typically results in destruction. Weapons designed to maximize heat damage, such as the Thanix series, show better results against the Reapers than pure kinetic impacts.The barriers of a Reaper destroyer are less formidable than those of a capital ship. It is possible for a single cruiser or many fighters to disable or demolish a destroyer if they can get within range before
they are themselves destroyed.  The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength. 

Sovereign was destroyed while assuming direct control over Saren.  The feedback from Saren's death seemed to entirely overload Sovereign's shields. Current Reapers do not seem to suffer from this design flaw. Reaper capital ships can turn faster than Citadel dreadnoughts, but to do so, they must lower their mass to a level unacceptable in combat situations. Consequently, it is possible for a dreadnought to emerge from FTL travel behind a capital ship, then bring its guns to bear faster than the Reaper can return fire. This is a poor tactic, however, against Reapers flying in proper formation.

Good points. So they ignore ME1 once again due to its unavailability for the PS3. I must remember only the main points of that story matter. None of the lore from that story matters at all -- it never happened. Genesis is the only way it happened.

There is another strategy. Ignore the Reaper capital ships and just devastate the destroyers and transports. Capital ships by themselves cannot win a war. They cannot hold the worlds. They need the destroyers and transports to do that.

It looked like Hackett was ignoring the smaller ships and focusing on the capital ships. In a potentially long war -- as in suppose the Crucible didn't work -- this was a fool's gambit.

It might give the Allied forces an opportunity to build replacements like the Geth could tirelessly crank out replacement vessels for all fleets. Of course, we would owe them a homeworld, sector, and say in galactic politics afterward, but if they did that I'd say they earned it. There would be no way in hell I'd sacrifice them.

So if the writers had allowed it a conventional victory might have been possible.

and they was either lazy and Casey or Mac did it or they were rushed

[V-rcingetorix]

An additional force for conventional warfare would be the lightspeed engine itself, aka fireships. Yes, there are protocols deeply embedded in engines to stop the lightspeed as a gravity well is approached, but there are two ways around that:

1. Geth have been building independent of Reapers, right? Even if they have the limitations, couldn't they make engines w/o those limitations?

2. Simply strap asteroids to ships, drive the ships close to lightspeed in the proper direction, and detach the asteroid at the Point of No Return.

If the ships could be manned, they could be manned by Geth, who could download themselves to safety. If not, I'm sure the Batarians would be thirsting for vengeance.

If this particular tactic had been seen before by the Reapers, it could be countered. However, this counter would either be extended sensor range or increased shields, both of which take power.

Therefore, the first fireship assault would have to be massive in scope, potentially navigated by the Crucible (which can detect all mass relays and Reapers in realtime), and prior to an attack.

Bring up the fleet, set up the fireships, lauch everyone; time/aim the fireships to pass through the fleet (at a significant fraction of c)into the Reapers and watch carnage erupt. THEN let the Allied fleet trade shots.

[SporkFu]

Just completed a run of the entire trilogy, and had my first look at the extended cut. I hadn't played ME1 or 2 for quite some time, and I have to say it's a pretty amazing journey right from the beginning. Really liked what the EC added, and want to say a personal thanks to the folks at Bioware for putting the effort into it that they did. Now am eagerly awaiting some SP DLC.

[Zan51]

You have to be one of the few who thought ME 3 completed the trilogy. I so wish it had, and also so wished i had learned from the ending of DA 2 - you got forced into the ending Bioware wanted there - all mages will use blood magic so all mages are evil, kill them, even your sister. It ignored the fact that forcing people to a wall with no escape means they use what little they have at their disposal, including bad stuff..

We get it again here - all synthetics will turn on their creators so a synthetic is put in charge of the solution to that and decides - gee, what a surprise, to turn on its creators and continue doing that every 50k years! Kill the organics and then the synthetics can't turn on them, simples...

Yes, I thank Bioware for making the EC, which is the only ending I played through as I got the game late, but I still "played" (read watched since Bioware "Assumed control" of Shepard) a totally different "game" (read Art) for the last 10 or so minutes of ME3.

[chasemme]

<Edit: Irrelevant>

Modifié par chasemme, 24 juillet 2012 - 11:02 .

[Bolt-Action]

Zan51 wrote...

You have to be one of the few who thought ME 3 completed the trilogy. I so wish it had, and also so wished i had learned from the ending of DA 2 - you got forced into the ending Bioware wanted there - all mages will use blood magic so all mages are evil, kill them, even your sister. It ignored the fact that forcing people to a wall with no escape means they use what little they have at their disposal, including bad stuff..

We get it again here - all synthetics will turn on their creators so a synthetic is put in charge of the solution to that and decides - gee, what a surprise, to turn on its creators and continue doing that every 50k years! Kill the organics and then the synthetics can't turn on them, simples...

Yes, I thank Bioware for making the EC, which is the only ending I played through as I got the game late, but I still "played" (read watched since Bioware "Assumed control" of Shepard) a totally different "game" (read Art) for the last 10 or so minutes of ME3.

As I have so many times, AGREE, the ending was atrocious. 

[BlueStorm83]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

*Way Snipped*

It looked like Hackett was ignoring the smaller ships and focusing on the capital ships. In a potentially long war -- as in suppose the Crucible didn't work -- this was a fool's gambit.

It might give the Allied forces an opportunity to build replacements like the Geth could tirelessly crank out replacement vessels for all fleets. Of course, we would owe them a homeworld, sector, and say in galactic politics afterward, but if they did that I'd say they earned it. There would be no way in hell I'd sacrifice them.

So if the writers had allowed it a conventional victory might have been possible.

---  Julia here raises a good point: Theoretically, given time and resources, couldn't the Geth themselves prove to be MORE than a match for the Reapers?  I mean, the Geth can build their own synthetic living ships, they could even build them as big as the Reapers.  But unlike the Reapers... the Geth don't need to grind people up to replace their dead.  The Geth can just Copy/Paste and BAM, welcome back to my best friend Geth Consensus Nodule 3171442!  In theory, couldn't Geth even gut a dead Reaper and just upload some Geth to its body?  Remember, Geth aren't necessarily true AI with Blue Boxes, they're a collection of VIs working in a learning network.  Even after their Individualization, we hear that they can upload into Quarrian Suits to help acclimate them back to Rannoch.

Frankly, if we hadn't gone "Ohmuhgawd, we gots to build that thurr CROOCIBULL!!!" right out of the gates, and resigned ourselves to a LONG WAR, we could have won this.  When a Capital Ship Reaper dies, it's irreplacible.  You'll never get one exactly like it.  When a Human, Turian, Elcor, whatever vessel is destroyed, not only can we make one identical, or even BETTER from a shipyard... but some of the crew will no doubt survive, and can be reassigned to the new ship.  For example, see Normandy SR-1 and Normandy SR-2.  Seriously, though, on the way to the end of the game, Shep's like, "It's been a long couple of months" or something.  WHAT?!  The Protheans held out for HUNDREDS.  OF.  YEARS.  Well, they were isolated and cut off, that was just the Reapers mopping up.  REALLY???  Didn't Javik tell us stories of how he went across the galaxy, searching for his indoctrinated/reaperized buddies, and then killing them?  Maybe they had lost the tactical and logistic advantage of the Relays, but they clearly had SOME means of travel without them.  No, killing the Reapers by using WEAPONS AND SOLDIERS, and not by using bad writing, bull****, and the Mighty Misery Cannon, is entirely possible.  I categorically deny BioWare's assertion that if you pick Refuse, everyone goes full retard and drinks bleach.

[3DandBeyond]

Yes, all through ME1-3 the story is one of redemption. Individuals who've been basically dead shells find redemption through their proximity to Shepard-they learn and grow and live again. Shepard him/herself is physically redeemed in the beginning of ME2. The galaxy as a whole (and races therein) hide their heads and ignore what's really happening around them. In choosing finally to follow Shepard's lead, they find redemption.

The galaxy has also consistently created tech based upon reaper tech, along a reaper-created path. They have a chance to at long last find their own way forward and self-determine, just as the geth and EDI have done.

We are constantly given phrases that speak to this as the overarching theme of the story. Shepard leads a bunch of misfits forward into true autonomy, a brave frontier based upon nothing but their own values and determination and what they will at long last learn for themselves.

These terms resound. Redemption-the name of the graphic novel about the search for Shepard's body. From Ashes-the DLC name that is a reference to what a Phoenix does. The Phoenix dies but rises from the ashes to live again. Phoenix is also referenced in several areas, even in MP.

The whole galaxy has been asleep and stagnating. Shepard wakes them all up and gives them a chance. The writers crapped on that and said Shepard must pick a choice and must say that all of that is meaningless. Kill a whole race and a friend who were examples of what the galaxy could learn to do, self-determine or decide that it's not worth it to even try to find a new path. Choose control and the reapers still determine that path. Choose synthesis and again the reapers have determined everything. If you choose either, why did EDI and the geth bother to become sentient and was any of the fighting, any death, and any other sacrifice worth it?

The total idea of redemption or trying to be something better or even self-determination is blown to smithereens. The person that showed everyone the way forward (the one Hackett says others will follow into hell), in the last few minutes of the game totally screws everyone. Even in choosing destroy by committing genocide, Shepard is making a statement against everything s/he has stood for and the reasons others had for following him/her into hell. Shepard valued others. All those people that thought Shepard valued them might wonder if anything Shepard said was true if Shepard could choose to kill EDI and the geth. Shepard who helped others find redemption, find life, find purpose, and even find respect for themselves, at the end is made irredeemable. No matter what choice is made, the hero is gone.

[Bolt-Action]

Grrrr I can see a true flood of "it can't be won conventionally gaga gugu blah hardy har" comments ensuing. We know, we get it *sigh*
While its a very interesting prospect....The Geth would need access to huge amounts of resources and time.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

---  Julia here raises a good point: Theoretically, given time and resources, couldn't the Geth themselves prove to be MORE than a match for the Reapers?  I mean, the Geth can build their own synthetic living ships, they could even build them as big as the Reapers.  But unlike the Reapers... the Geth don't need to grind people up to replace their dead.  The Geth can just Copy/Paste and BAM, welcome back to my best friend Geth Consensus Nodule 3171442!  In theory, couldn't Geth even gut a dead Reaper and just upload some Geth to its body?  Remember, Geth aren't necessarily true AI with Blue Boxes, they're a collection of VIs working in a learning network.  Even after their Individualization, we hear that they can upload into Quarrian Suits to help acclimate them back to Rannoch.

Frankly, if we hadn't gone "Ohmuhgawd, we gots to build that thurr CROOCIBULL!!!" right out of the gates, and resigned ourselves to a LONG WAR, we could have won this.  When a Capital Ship Reaper dies, it's irreplacible.  You'll never get one exactly like it.  When a Human, Turian, Elcor, whatever vessel is destroyed, not only can we make one identical, or even BETTER from a shipyard... but some of the crew will no doubt survive, and can be reassigned to the new ship.  For example, see Normandy SR-1 and Normandy SR-2.  Seriously, though, on the way to the end of the game, Shep's like, "It's been a long couple of months" or something.  WHAT?!  The Protheans held out for HUNDREDS.  OF.  YEARS.  Well, they were isolated and cut off, that was just the Reapers mopping up.  REALLY???  Didn't Javik tell us stories of how he went across the galaxy, searching for his indoctrinated/reaperized buddies, and then killing them?  Maybe they had lost the tactical and logistic advantage of the Relays, but they clearly had SOME means of travel without them.  No, killing the Reapers by using WEAPONS AND SOLDIERS, and not by using bad writing, bull****, and the Mighty Misery Cannon, is entirely possible.  I categorically deny BioWare's assertion that if you pick Refuse, everyone goes full retard and drinks bleach.

It's the fact that the writers never even allowed any kind of imaginative exploration into what could have been done AT ALL.  And you see how well this brainwashing has worked, since there are many no doubt intelligent people that would fight to the death to get you to agree that a conventional fight is impossible.  But, it's like the writers want people stuck on stupid.  Yes, it's impossible because someone somewhere chose to make the word "impossible" really mean it this time-they did it because they had to have a need for the crucible and they had to have a reason for no real battle against the reapers.  They wanted to purposely limit the scope of the story.

If you suggest to some that such unconventional but known methods might have been tried or even been adapted to a real battle, there's a number of people that will assert that makes no sense because it's impossible, but they believe total Space Magic makes more sense.  The thing is using some of the same logic the suicide mission should have killed everyone, the collectors should be alive, and getting people in the galaxy to work together should never have happened.  We learned in this set of games that impossible just means you work harder to make it happen.

There is much that isn't known about the reapers.  Sovereign says they are independent-Legion backs this up in ME2.  He differentiates the geth from the reapers by saying the geth are interdependent.  But you don't know what the effect might be of destroying capital ships.  The reapers are not resistant to toxins, but the geth are.  So, even if you don't send geth in with cains or to re-program the reapers, send them in to poison them. 

The geth and EDI have abilities that are never used.  They contain reaper code.  The virus that the reapers used to infect the heretic geth was studied by the true geth and they may have some knowledge of how to create something like that that could be used against the reapers.  It could be sent via the indoctrination signal that uses some form of quantum entanglement communication.

What's so frustrating is that instead of developing some cool ideas that would show the galaxy has all these independent minds that are working together, the writers chose to put the game on auto-pilot, send in one person to determine the fate of the galaxy. 

When has Shepard ever made a choice without consulting anyone else?  Rewrite or destroy the heretic geth?  What do you think Legion?  Fight or not?  What do you think Grunt?  Tell the Admirals about your father?  What do you think Tali?  Ready to fight the Collectors?  What do you think Jacob?  Cure the genophage?  What do you think Mordin?  Make a galaxy changing choice based on what the god controller of our enemies says?  I got this one.

[johnj1979]

If look at the story of Mass Effect 3 it is just a very bad copy of the story of Mass Effect 1.

If you look at the characters that involved in Mass Effect 3 they are just the same as in Mass Effect 1

The Illusive Man (or Tim) is Saren
Cerberus are the Geth

To me there doesn't feel even with this "Extended Cut" that this is a continuous at part of the Shepard becuase there are (to me away) too many parts of the story that missing.

[Fiannawolf]

Overall my reaction to the EC and how it answered some of my questions:

Squadmates: What happened to them?

This was answered for most of them. Athough I never got a Miri or Jack slide at all so maybe thats only if they are your LI?

Fleet: What happened? Destruction or Starvation?

Check, showed them leaving ect.

Normandy: Hackett was aboard so Joker fleeing doesnt make sense and Hackett wouldnt allow it.
Ditto....went back to his own ship.
Final Run: How is it they end up on the Normandy anyway? NO sense to this whatsoever. Esp since all of them were all over London at the time. Did Harb get lazy and let Joker swoop in and leave with Shep's team...

HARBY IS A NICE REAPER! Killing all the random peeps while I say bye to Kai and Liara. MY HERO XD

Leaving Shep to die: None of Sheps teammates would do this at all. Over the radio no one notices shep get up? Thus ending sequence must be a crazy dream. Why were NPCs in dress blue uniforms too, Makes no sense. No HUD and unlimited bullets, armor and gun different.

Well took my LI on the beam run and it was Garrus who told Joker to book it. For the record Ash was my tank wingman so guess if LI goes with ya they dont tell Joker to leave w/ Hacketts group? As for the other stuff, shows shep getting thrown out of the portal this time onto the citidel. So for me Idoc attempt starts with lovely elevator riide now. NO REAPER KID! I NOT BELIEVE YOUS!! *Swats* As for the HUD and such.....uummmm no comment

Plus Hackett mentions "OMG SHEP DID/MADE IT" and intentionally inflitrated the Citidel.

Everything after the Beam: Was it indoctrination? A dream cause shep got hurt? Prelude to real final battle vs Harby. Have Shep wake up so we can really finish the fight, its sad when Halo 2 ended better then this series plus that was a cliffhanger.

Sadness. Looks like Ill have to modify my IT thoughts abit. Im thinking the mind frack was taking place at the magic elevator of doom now. God I wish I didnt make fun of all those ME1 vators....this is Karma isnt it??? MEEP! My Shep did press the Red Skittles button Reapers...sooooory.

Relays: Tricked Shep into seeing thier destruction by Harby or can they be rebuilt by Allied teams/science.

Answered

Status of Universe: Other homeworlds rebuilt or destroyed by reapers if Shep fails, at this point we only have that thing at the end saying buy DLC. Thats the only indicatior we have of "Destroying the Reapers".

Glad they changed the DLC message at the end. Showed most worlds.


Citidel: Is everyone dead? Was it worthless to even do quests for these NPCs if theres no indication that our war assests saved or hindered them.

I think there was more stuff shown but it was slight. IE More ships and fleet damage. Citidel didnt completely bite it.


Anderson and TIM: Where are they really? After beam hit it doesnt make sense that they'd get ahead or behind Shep at any point cause it was a strait shot to that console. If that was really TIM then why didnt he try to activate it himself while holding Anderson hostage.

Umm, well if Anderson beamed out onto another part I still am unsure how he got ahead and TIMMEH not really caring about that console concerns me. Even if the walls are moving its still strange how TIMMEH appears outta nowhere. Guess I can chalk this up to technical mostly? IE harder to program?

Why collect all those fleets when the outcome is nearly identical??? If you take this ending as is atm then Shep killed more people in the end and did the Reapers jobs for them. Way to make me feel heroic. Esp as a paragon Shep.

New Destroy ending made me feel abit better in the heroic dept. High 7200 EMS version that is. Dont have low EMS versions so.....Yay for relays not killing all systems this time. To me Synth ending is Saren while Control is TIM so no way will I see that in my console ever.

So thats why the EC met my minium expectations. As far as those Questions went.

For me the icing would have been this:

Reunion/Rescue DLC anyone??



Annd so....EC part 2...Things I wanted aka How the Vomit Cake became Edible Cake if somewhat vanilla...

PS Typoeses are intentionally infiltrating for LULZ effect otherwise I will need more chocolates.

So more stuff from my orginal list of fun and nasty S word Specullllllllaaaaaaaaaaation. Derp! XD


What I want in my possible real endings: aka ENDGAME PART 2 or Why wasnt this in ME3 in the beginning.

Extreamly OMG your Fracked ending:

Like ME2's suicide mission, if you go in without enough resources, it will end badly. Show the results after attempted Indoc process on Shep. In the worst ending the Commander will most likely die ala ME2 to complete the mission. But show what happens to the universe and the races because you went in unprepared.

Well the "NEW" forth OMG the Kid is possessed reject option is what I would consider UBER Fracked ending. Fun to shoot him from half way across the screen/Room though. It was the first thing I did when reloading with EC. Hellloooo Harby-like main chip boy. In a way this definately tells me his reasoning is full of it and the only ending slides Ill believe is destroy. Cause out of all of the new VO work he still haaaaaaates and downplays the one where Reapers Bite it. Varric from DA2 is a more reliable Bullsitter then you. Plus Harby said "Serve ME" to my Shep before he FIRED MAH LAZER of white concussion at me. Plus using EDI, Me and the Geth as Emotional Blackmail raises my ALERT bar way high. If Destroy would truely kill me then why am I still alive after the fact? Hmm? No answer Skid? Did I wildfire your logic or skitzo monologue? Awwww....*throws companion cube at his face*

I still dont give two fracks about you kid.

Anyone else notices a metric ton of M Shieldses durning the missle fight? I did. XD Sorry sir your extended family failed to protect me. Yes the endings were more varied buuuuuuuuut.......in summary my inital emotional reaction to all of it. Cause soooooooo close but not quite there syndrom. Show not tell Bioware! It goes along way! I like headcanoning things with a complete game ala DA origins. IE What are alistar/warden's kids like? Newly married life ect.


*howls in the corner*

*finds chocolates*

*howls some more*

*paces in circles*

*finds a forest and decides to Fas Ro Howl things*

Romantic wolf is still closet romantic bundle of fluff....why you no show Shep w/ Still frame at least with crew/ LI reunite for 5 secs. This was a small but touching moment for my Kai and Liara sheps. I dont want just an IMPLIED REUNION.....even though this little touch was nice and made me do a wolfy dance.



Like i said in first part of this breakdown. ME1 style "From the Rubble" moment would have gone a long way to say HEART LOVES THIS BRAIN STUFF IT!!! ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL OF LOGIC. At this point the sappy thing in me would have been Uber estatic.

Show real varied endings. What happens if shep did get indoctrinated from Harbringer. Will s/he kill friends after they wake up? Destroy the only weapon/s against the Reapers, doom everyone ect. For those who want to see the trainwreak capablities of a doom and gloom outcome, they can have it. Hell you can even have "And I must Scream" Trope moment with shep as they realize they are slaughtering everyone while under Harbs control.

Prehaps we can still have this with the Leviathian DLC? Not sure though but I still found Syth and Paragon+ Renegade flavored Control just as "And I must scream" Trope. NOT GONNA HAPPEN IN MY FILES Bioware. Sorry but those 2 options are terrifying cause based on ME1 and 2 lore/events the Reapers win and thats not Kosher for my Sheps. How long will a Control Shep AI last and not become corrupted??? Not very long. SB AI rouge 2.0 not for my PCs.

I Youtubed alot of varied Control and Synth endings so the content has been seen but dear lord....omnious stuff there. To me Synth ending isnt the best by far. Its more sinister then control because Shepard made everyone well REAPERs basically. In Control only Shep is the overall Harby reaper so thats less fracktastic...I think.


Middle-line ending:

Went in prepard but not enough to prevent Shepard from utimately dying in the end but before s/he goes out you see how they defeated the Reapers and a final conversation with Friends and LI before Shep goes to the "Bar". In this ending the last scenes can be of how each planet and major decisions of Shep helped shape the Galaxy. Even Fallout 1 did this with the Vault Dweller main PC and allowed for a good amount of closure.

"Earn your Happy/Bittersweet Ending"

Must be uber prepard to take back Earth and resist Reaper Indoc at Citidel Beam Sequence.

Shep survives, reunited with Team/LI, Anderson and everyone else. This version shows the results of decisions, not all would be alive but Shepard will say farewells for those they lost in a state/galatic funeral ceremony. BIGGEST THING: SHOW RESULTS OF PREVIOUS DECISIONS AND HOW IT ULTIMATELY PLAYS OUT!

In this endgame we could have flashback/memory sequences to other important events in Shep's life, Wedding? Premotions, other missions post Reaper if TIM Situation isnt resolved, or even during reaper war for extra stories so Devs can get any side missions in without keeping with this Half Ending we have atm. Hell the memory shard Javik gives you in London would be the perfect vehicle to relive different moments in your Sheps life that are important. For LI enthusiasts this could be replay of thier weddings? Kids? Fun moments with ME crewmates.

Just some of my thoughts. Heck my Warden and Alistar had a more memorable ending/wedding then my poor Sheps will at this point in time. So what If I want the chance for this.....My Sheps darned well earned it. Either way I as the player lost characters I cared about no matter how well prepard I was. That in reality is the bittersweet: No saving Legion, Mordin, or Ash/Kai. Thane goes out well enough and has a resolution compared to Shepard. At least we got to see the results of him stopping Leng....

Ill be completely honest Bioware:

This should have been in the Vanilla version. We should have had the option for on Screen reunion even in stills. Or even as a VO after the credits. There was more Hope radiating from my Destroy ending this time. For that I am heartened but I know you guys can do even better! Lair of the SB anyone? The humor was spot on ect. The conversations in London made me squee lots. Ill never know what happened for those orginal 10-15 last minutes but I refuse to believe that the same team that gave me ME1 could have lost the spark that made Shepard's journey worth while. Why did the game go from B5 Space opera to Mind Bork in those last 10 mins? This whole series has been a HEART one for me. Why couldnt I get the illusion of that with one of my possible endings? As is the EC helped put some medigel on my heart but its still mass effected.

Ill wait and watch to see if any SP DLC will inclued post stuff or Reunion/Rescue things. I might get some SP stuff if the user reviews match my basic expectations. Still sad that I have to even say BASIC expectations now. Ahh well. Im not a "THROW MONEY" fangirl anymore. Im a "WAIT and SEE" one now. That depresses me but maybe one day Bioware can get that part of me back. For now Ill just save that kind of excitement for Bethesda and Valve and suprisingly good Dragons Dogma series. Plus walking dead games....

[johnj1979]

If you think about it there was no need for the Crucible because one race had already found a means of destroy Reapers by the means of the Mass Effect weapon that disabled a Reaper that Shepard got the IFF from in Mass Effect 2

[Bolt-Action]

^
^
I feel your pain (hitting fist to chest) i felt the same thing, still do

Modifié par Bolt-Action, 24 juillet 2012 - 02:05 .

[3DandBeyond]

Bolt-Action wrote...

Grrrr I can see a true flood of "it can't be won conventionally gaga gugu blah hardy har" comments ensuing. We know, we get it *sigh*
While its a very interesting prospect....The Geth would need access to huge amounts of resources and time.

Oh yes.  And that's why some figure it made more sense to pour all those resources and all that time into Mr. Unknown MacCrucible.

The point of course is that in a story I think if you can use existing knowledge and then bend it slightly to make something work IMO it seems more credible than if you totally smash that knowledge and dumb down your characters in order to make some awesome glitzy finish.

If you look at ME, the real strength of it is in it characters.  The reapers as foes don't matter that much, they provide the conflict against which we play out a story about characters.  But, what does ME3 do right off the bat?  It really starts to destroy those characters. 

If you watch the beginning when Shepard is talking to the tribunal or board, you really are given a load of silliness.  Shepard says that a fight with the reapers isn't about strategy or tactics, that people must stand together, and they must fight or die.  Uh, what does that all mean?  Then Shepard gets on the Normandy and Hackett orders Shepard to Mars and says they can't fight the reapers conventionally.  Well, that's a fine pep talk for an Admiral to give subordinates.

You get to Mars and Liara talks about the Crucible that is or isn't or will be a weapon.  Ok, what?  Liara drank the dumb down juice.  And she has nowhere to go but down.  She's turned into really a complete idiot who knew nothing about the protheans so this device based in part on things the protheans did is still considered their best chance.  And they don't know what it is.  Shepard even says they don't want to shoot it if they don't know what it does.  But, people have all had a drink of the dumb down juice and in the end, Shepard who drank a whole gallon of it, may shoot the crucible/citadel space gun and not really know what it does.  And this is realistic or just works whereas "conventional" is just nonsense?

Give me a gun that someone has figured out a way to alter that easily rips through kinetic barriers because the "projectile" it fires worms its way through a kinetic barrier and once beneath the barrier explodes releasing toxins that will destroy the organic part of the reaper as well as that are just explosive devices.  Does that somewhat bend what is believable?  Yep.  But it doesn't break it all.

[3DandBeyond]

johnj1979 wrote...

If you think about it there was no need for the Crucible because one race had already found a means of destroy Reapers by the means of the Mass Effect weapon that disabled a Reaper that Shepard got the IFF from in Mass Effect 2

Yes, there are a couple of references as to reapers and fighting that had occurred in the past.  I think the planet Joab (I think I got the name right) indicates past fighting.  And again the rachni might know things that worked against the reapers during Prothean times.  The rachni were around back then and they have genetic memory-no one knows how long the rachni have been in existence.  Perhaps they've been around since even before the Prothean cycle.  Any kind of fight would gather together all things that might work.  I don't know how they intended to protect the Crucible from reaper attacks if conventional weaponry didn't work.

[Neko Hibiki]

I'll just write a fanfic where everyone says "Someone, please come and save us now." and then Celestia and Luna come in, destroys the Reapers, turns everyone into ponies, and converts everyone to Harmony.

It'd make more sense now.

Really it would.

[BlueStorm83]

3DandBeyond wrote...

*snipped*

When has Shepard ever made a choice without consulting anyone else?  Rewrite or destroy the heretic geth?  What do you think Legion?  Fight or not?  What do you think Grunt?  Tell the Admirals about your father?  What do you think Tali?  Ready to fight the Collectors?  What do you think Jacob?  Cure the genophage?  What do you think Mordin?  Make a galaxy changing choice based on what the god controller of our enemies says?  I got this one.

He had outside consulting on that last one.

Shepard: "Make a galaxy changing choice based on what the god controller of our enemies says?  What do you think, Reaper Child?"

Starboy:  "I say go for it!"

Shepard:  "HURRR, DURRR, OKAY!"

[Fiannawolf]

Neko Hibiki wrote...

I'll just write a fanfic where everyone says "Someone, please come and save us now." and then Celestia and Luna come in, destroys the Reapers, turns everyone into ponies, and converts everyone to Harmony.

It'd make more sense now.

Really it would.

Sadly that is more logical....especially the magic insertion aspect of it.

[BlueStorm83]

johnj1979 wrote...

If you think about it there was no need for the Crucible because one race had already found a means of destroy Reapers by the means of the Mass Effect weapon that disabled a Reaper that Shepard got the IFF from in Mass Effect 2

---  Also, the Turians found a means of Destroying Reapers.  They sat a fleet behind a Mass Relay and just shot the **** out of them when they arrived into Palaven's system.  Reapers can be destroyed by concentrated fire from 4 ships.  Codex says this.  Codex also says that Thanix cannons are even more effective, so if we've got a Thanix equipped fleet, change that to 3, maybe even 2 ships.  We don't need gigantic ships that house the intelligence of an entire race: we can make smaller ships that are nothing but living quarters, control rooms, thrusters, and guns.  Scratch that: we can have a ship that's nothing but thrusters and guns, provided they're crewed entirely by Geth programs.  So sure, they have GOOD shields, but they're not invincible.  All we need to do is to actually fight them with what we have, what we know, and what we can do.

And here's another thing:  Shepard "destroys" Cerberus at Chronos Station, right?  But it's a terrorist organization as big as the Alliance: there's cells EVERYWHERE.  Instead of destroying the station, couldn't he have just TAKEN it?  Issued orders to the cells in the guise of the Illusive Man?  Much like Liara did when she became the Shadow Broker?

So, let's combine Geth efficiency, Turian militarism, Asari size and fleet, Salarian science, Krogan brutality, Human resilience, Elcor and Volus... money, Drell stealthiness, Hanar... whatever the hell they can contribute and wrap it all up with all the knowledge we have from the Protheans and from the, what, 3 times that Shepard has already thwarted Reaper Invasions (Sovereign at the Citadel, Collector;s building the Human Reaper, and the Alpha relay thing) and you're telling me that we NEED the Crucible?

I can understand finding Prothean Plans for a thing that they thought would kill the Reapers and saying "Okay, this sounds like a good idea to build," but nobody came up with a contingency plan?  Nobody thought "The Protheans couldn't quite pull it off.  I want a backup, just incase it doesn't work for us, either."

Nobody thought, "People will be playing this as a Videogame, maybe we should let them have an adrenaline and emotion filled victory at the end?"