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Extended Cut: SPOILER Discussion


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#3526
Bhatair

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Just finished the game for the second time last night, this time with the EC. Here are my quick thoughts on it:

It was better, I'm glad they went back to address some of the plot holes and I appreciate the work that went into recording new dialogue and creating new cinematics etc. Overall I think I can be a little less bitter about the ending now. I like that there was some sort of an epilogue now, it wasn't great but it was at least something.

The only problem I had with it was that the more I played through it the more it kind of made me angry that we didn't just get this kind of depth in the original ending. It gave me the impression that the game was originally just rushed (actually a lot of the game gives me that impression, this just reinforces it.) It was all the little things, like explaining how your squadmates got back to the Normandy (although that raised questions of why Harbinger didn't just blow the Normandy out of the sky) or how Hackett knew someone made it to the citadel. Especially the clarification on the final three choices. Why did it take so much of an uproar to get these? Why weren't they in the game from release? I'm ok with the EC but I wont be able to enjoy it without thinking of how bad the ending originally was.


Oh, one more thing. I like the redone version of 'An End Once And For All' :P

#3527
chevyguy87

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Captain McBuck wrote...

 Bioware said they wanted the ending to be memorable. and it will be but probably not for the same reasons they were thinking.


Oh believe you me nobody will be forgetting the epic flop that was Mass Defect 3. All that made the series great will be forever tarnished and mocked because Bioware stood by their "artistic beliefs" (*rolls eyes) and let the series crash and burn so spectacularly within the final 20 minutes. 

After seeing insight from the others I have come to my own conclusion, that ME3 is a complete loss. Sad, because Mass Effect was my favorite game series. It was a fresh change of pace from all the boring shoot em ups and rpgs out there at the time. I guess now I can look forward to the release of GTA V or Half Life 2 Episode Three whichever one comes out first. Mass Effect is dead to me now.

#3528
Captain McBuck

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chevyguy87 wrote...

Captain McBuck wrote...

 Bioware said they wanted the ending to be memorable. and it will be but probably not for the same reasons they were thinking.


Oh believe you me nobody will be forgetting the epic flop that was Mass Defect 3. All that made the series great will be forever tarnished and mocked because Bioware stood by their "artistic beliefs" (*rolls eyes) and let the series crash and burn so spectacularly within the final 20 minutes. 

After seeing insight from the others I have come to my own conclusion, that ME3 is a complete loss. Sad, because Mass Effect was my favorite game series. It was a fresh change of pace from all the boring shoot em ups and rpgs out there at the time. I guess now I can look forward to the release of GTA V or Half Life 2 Episode Three whichever one comes out first. Mass Effect is dead to me now.


Yeah. I know how you feel. I have no interest in the multiplayer.

#3529
kglaser

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I just finished the EC. I am happy for the most part!
Thank God we got to see the "breath scene". Also, those plot holes getting explained was great. But it made me angry anew that they didn't just address that in the first place! Duh.

#3530
Gemini1179

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Captain McBuck wrote...


Yeah. I know how you feel. I have no interest in the multiplayer.


I am quite surprised that people still play MP. I was quite sick of it after two weekends.

#3531
chevyguy87

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Gemini1179 wrote...

Captain McBuck wrote...


Yeah. I know how you feel. I have no interest in the multiplayer.


I am quite surprised that people still play MP. I was quite sick of it after two weekends.


Multiplayer doesn't do it for me, Mass Effect is not a game title that needs multiplayer. I believe that it was just their way of luring the general audience to the game. I know the MP aspects were done by a different team apart from the main staff that worked on single player, but I like to imagine in my head that the story could have been different or at least made the central focus if they did not tack on multiplayer. (Possibly free up disc space for more story content?, but perhaps that's just wishful thinking now) 

Like I said, my desire to touch Mass Effect anymore is lost, but shoddy multiplayer sure as hell won't change my mind about it.

#3532
BlueStorm83

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Bhatair wrote...

Just finished the game for the second time last night, this time with the EC. Here are my quick thoughts on it:

It was better, I'm glad they went back to address some of the plot holes and I appreciate the work that went into recording new dialogue and creating new cinematics etc. Overall I think I can be a little less bitter about the ending now. I like that there was some sort of an epilogue now, it wasn't great but it was at least something.

The only problem I had with it was that the more I played through it the more it kind of made me angry that we didn't just get this kind of depth in the original ending. It gave me the impression that the game was originally just rushed (actually a lot of the game gives me that impression, this just reinforces it.) It was all the little things, like explaining how your squadmates got back to the Normandy (although that raised questions of why Harbinger didn't just blow the Normandy out of the sky) or how Hackett knew someone made it to the citadel. Especially the clarification on the final three choices. Why did it take so much of an uproar to get these? Why weren't they in the game from release? I'm ok with the EC but I wont be able to enjoy it without thinking of how bad the ending originally was.


Oh, one more thing. I like the redone version of 'An End Once And For All' :P


---  That's the overarching problem, that the Extended Cut should have been there from the very begining, to make their mess at least have a flow and not rely exclusively on Headcanon to reach any conclusing where exploding relays didn't kill everyone everywhere, and where Garrus and Tali can not eat Levo-protien food and not die of Mass Diarrhea on the Jungle World with Magical Appearing Liara and Ashley and Unexplained Chicken Joker.

---  Really?  The ending song is "An End Once and For All?"  And they reworked it?  Once and for all speaks of total finality.  You shouldn't rework something like that.  Honestly, I am positive that the original ending was always supposed to be some sort of "Everyone's dead besides the survivors on that Jungle World" ending, to try and set the stage for some kind of New Galaxy, where a reborn humanity eventually grows on their own to discover FTL travel and explores a brave new universe.  Which is a miserable end.  But if that's what they wanted, they should have just said it.

---  EVERYONE is looking at the Extended Cut in the light of the original endings.  To remedy this situation, I have loaned my games (starting with ME1) to my cousin, and they will next go to my brother, and my uncle has gotten his own ME3.  Soon, I'll have 3 fresh, new perspectives on the games without the original endings.  At the moment, I have a broken toe.  It hurts.  When it heals, I will be like, "I'm so glad that my toe's not broken anymore!"  But that doesn't mean having a working toe is some great thing; it's the status quo, I'm just looking at it from a skewed perspective.

---  Yeah, the EC did patch up a few holes, as well as remove the absolutely broken artificial way they force you to accept the Catalyst's logic.  Instead of the new literal and heavy handed way they force you into it, by trying to give you a total loss if you reject him.  Personally, I choose Refuse with pride, my message being "Even total abject defeat is better than the **** soup you're trying to feed me."  But they left quite a few holes.  The biggest, to me at least, is how Anderson is The Flash (Got past Shepard... in that one way hallway?), how TIM is the Puppetmaster (I can control people!... somehow... without any explanation... but not all that well... maybe?), and of course, how BioWare thought that this was all a good idea.

#3533
TGiNcRySiS

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kglaser wrote...

I just finished the EC. I am happy for the most part!
Thank God we got to see the "breath scene". Also, those plot holes getting explained was great. But it made me angry anew that they didn't just address that in the first place! Duh.


You are happy for the most part?  So I will ask because I am still trying to get a good answer from somebody.  What is it that you like?  Yes they explained some plot holes so what?  The original endings were COMPLETE trash and the EC endings explain the trash a little better.

Tell me what you were happy about with the endings.  Keep in mind I love ME3 up until the end and have only a few other minor issues with it.  The ending unfortunately ruined everything else.

#3534
Iakus

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kglaser wrote...

I just finished the EC. I am happy for the most part!
Thank God we got to see the "breath scene". Also, those plot holes getting explained was great. But it made me angry anew that they didn't just address that in the first place! Duh.


I for one am not happy that the last scene of Shepard is of him/her battered, burned, lying in a pile of rubble gasping.  Needs more ME1.

#3535
3DandBeyond

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iakus wrote...

kglaser wrote...

I just finished the EC. I am happy for the most part!
Thank God we got to see the "breath scene". Also, those plot holes getting explained was great. But it made me angry anew that they didn't just address that in the first place! Duh.


I for one am not happy that the last scene of Shepard is of him/her battered, burned, lying in a pile of rubble gasping.  Needs more ME1.


Agreed.

Interesting discussion elsewhere and it made me think which is completely foreign to me.

At the end of ME2 if you destroy the collector base it appears to be pretty well gone, right?  Get to ME3 and you can get the human reaper heart (the brain if you saved it).  Ok, TIM somehow got the human reaper from beyond the Omega IV relay?  Or was he making his own, complete with people goo?  Either way there's a problem.

You get the crucible plans and luckily you happen to have either a human reaper brain or a human reaper heart to be used in the crucible?  Or did people somehow alter these plans to use a human reaper heart or brain?  Or are all reaper brains and hearts interchangeable "organs" to be used in big batteries?  Ok and still how the heck did TIM get the Human reaper?

#3536
Iakus

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Agreed.

Interesting discussion elsewhere and it made me think which is completely foreign to me.

At the end of ME2 if you destroy the collector base it appears to be pretty well gone, right?  Get to ME3 and you can get the human reaper heart (the brain if you saved it).  Ok, TIM somehow got the human reaper from beyond the Omega IV relay?  Or was he making his own, complete with people goo?  Either way there's a problem.

You get the crucible plans and luckily you happen to have either a human reaper brain or a human reaper heart to be used in the crucible?  Or did people somehow alter these plans to use a human reaper heart or brain?  Or are all reaper brains and hearts interchangeable "organs" to be used in big batteries?  Ok and still how the heck did TIM get the Human reaper?


Well as to how TIM got it, he was able to duplicate the Reaper IFF.  If you do a FailShep run in ME2, you can see him sending more ships to the Collector Base/Collector Base debris.  DOn't ask how any part of the Reaper could survive teh explosion intact though ;)

No I don't know how any of it fits into the Crucible

#3537
Fixers0

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Indeed, why is my pro-genophage shepard forced to play along with the tuckhanka plot line, why would the man that excuted the only Krogan he ever let abour his ships say, that we ''All need the Krogan'' were as it's clearly evident that we don't.

#3538
Captain McBuck

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  Yeah, the EC did patch up a few holes, as well as remove the
absolutely broken artificial way they force you to accept the Catalyst's
logic.  Instead of the new literal and heavy handed way they force you
into it, by trying to give you a total loss if you reject him. 
Personally, I choose Refuse with pride, my message being "Even total
abject defeat is better than the **** soup you're trying to feed me."


Indeed. the problem was they gave us the "Refuse option" because  everyone was asking for it, but without linking it directly to our war assets and EMS which was how we wanted it implemented. so it came out more as a "don't like our crappy ending - F&%k you!. you lose"- even if they still wanted "conventional vicotry" as imposable they could still have put more effort into it and shown a united galaxy giiving it everything they had as all your war assets were thrown against the reapers in an epic last stand montage....instead we get "Too dumb to pick a colour? F&%k you".

#3539
Cefosa

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The extended cut made it to the best PC game ever for me.

Modifié par Cefosa, 27 juillet 2012 - 07:45 .


#3540
Sheridan31

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I like to decide whether to become a controler / reaper /shepard. or to incorperate machines and organic live. and the option to destroy the reaper.

I also like the idea that only destroy is the right choice to wake up of the indoctrination.

What i don´t like is that i have still doubt whether the choices where for real.

Currently, i believe that there was a indoctrination attempt, from the start of the hit (round light) to the moment he moved upwords (2nd round light). 

From that point on, all 3 options have their value. And a 4th as a option to lose is also great.

Modifié par Sheridan31, 27 juillet 2012 - 08:12 .


#3541
3DandBeyond

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Sheridan31 wrote...

I like to decide whether to become a controler / reaper /shepard. or to incorperate machines and organic live. and the option to destroy the reaper.

I also like the idea that only destroy is the right choice to wake up of the indoctrination.

What i don´t like is that i have still doubt whether the choices where for real.

Currently, i believe that there was a indoctrination attempt, from the start of the hit (round light) to the moment he moved upwords (2nd round light). 

From that point on, all 3 options have their value. And a 4th as a option to lose is also great.


Not to be nasty, but where is the win ending.  I haven't found it yet.  My Shepard was in a pile of rubble and I imagine EDI and the geth simply rebooted and teammates then found Shepard and put her back on the Normandy for Dr. Chakwas to put back together because none of the devs were up to the task.

#3542
Sheridan31

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Not to be nasty, but where is the win ending.  I haven't found it yet.  My Shepard was in a pile of rubble and I imagine EDI and the geth simply rebooted and teammates then found Shepard and put her back on the Normandy for Dr. Chakwas to put back together because none of the devs were up to the task.


I think the key, is, it´s beyond win and lose, right and wrong. All endings have their positive and negative side.

Controle:
Reasons for it: You get the reaper to build everything for you and the people are still independend from them, making them work for us. Shepard, as the name implies has grown to become a protector. The shepard of humanity with the essence of himselve, all the decisions you have done over the last 3 games. You.

Synthesis:
Now since you are in controle, you can become better, then simply beat the reaper in a "either you or us" way. You have the option of a lasting peace, a win win for everyone. The combined power of both synthetics and organics is at its largest here. The price is to work with synthetics.


Destroy:
The original plan. You destroy starchild and the reaper you won the war, but you are still not at win win. You have a fresh new start for everyone. a 2nd chance. And shepard lives to see it. I don´t think i have to advertise this solutioin here, since destroying the reaper and live and be able to rebuild the mass relays is what most people choose.

Basicly, i can have everything. just not in the same package. 

Speaker who show the way to maturity explain: You have to die as a child. stop thinking in white and black terms. Except the shades of grey. And the win-win deals. Win vs. other lose is seen as childish and of short reward.

Personaly i am quite found of both synthesis and destroy. Controle is a bit less apealing to me but also nice to have.

To answer your question: Where is the win ending?
Can´t answer the question since i do not share the implicated statement that a pure win is nessecary.

That´s the point. There is no right and wrong. There is simply your decision of what you consider right for you.

#3543
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Obviously TIM already had a copy of the Reaper IFF from his research team on the derelict reaper. The sent him the code. He scrubbed it and put it on his ships.

Then he sent Shepard to get the original hoped Shepard would die on the Suicide Mission.

#3544
AresKeith

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I've been thinking about this for a while, was TIM indoctrinated before ME2?

#3545
BlueStorm83

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Sheridan31 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Not to be nasty, but where is the win ending.  I haven't found it yet.  My Shepard was in a pile of rubble and I imagine EDI and the geth simply rebooted and teammates then found Shepard and put her back on the Normandy for Dr. Chakwas to put back together because none of the devs were up to the task.


I think the key, is, it´s beyond win and lose, right and wrong. All endings have their positive and negative side.

Controle:
Reasons for it: You get the reaper to build everything for you and the people are still independend from them, making them work for us. Shepard, as the name implies has grown to become a protector. The shepard of humanity with the essence of himselve, all the decisions you have done over the last 3 games. You.

Synthesis:
Now since you are in controle, you can become better, then simply beat the reaper in a "either you or us" way. You have the option of a lasting peace, a win win for everyone. The combined power of both synthetics and organics is at its largest here. The price is to work with synthetics.


Destroy:
The original plan. You destroy starchild and the reaper you won the war, but you are still not at win win. You have a fresh new start for everyone. a 2nd chance. And shepard lives to see it. I don´t think i have to advertise this solutioin here, since destroying the reaper and live and be able to rebuild the mass relays is what most people choose.

Basicly, i can have everything. just not in the same package. 

Speaker who show the way to maturity explain: You have to die as a child. stop thinking in white and black terms. Except the shades of grey. And the win-win deals. Win vs. other lose is seen as childish and of short reward.

Personaly i am quite found of both synthesis and destroy. Controle is a bit less apealing to me but also nice to have.

To answer your question: Where is the win ending?
Can´t answer the question since i do not share the implicated statement that a pure win is nessecary.

That´s the point. There is no right and wrong. There is simply your decision of what you consider right for you.



---  Hate to be Mr. Rebuttal, but I've got a few counterpoints.

In Controll, you can't assume that Shepard will continue to act as YOUR Shepard.  His very epilogue speech was already a breach of character for my Shepard.  Also, Shepard is just his name.  You can't make alliterations in reality, why should a free-choice game be allowed to?

In Synthesis, you can't truly trust any of what happens.  The Reapers wanted Synthesis from the very beginning.  And now everyone is connected directly to the Reaper Intelligence.  This is the Borg Collective, plain and simple.  This choice, and Control, both are saying, "Okay, Reapers, I was wrong, clearly your way is the right way."

In Destroy, you don't get a fresh start for everyone.  You've murdered the Geth.  And EDI.  And it STILL validates the Starboy's nonsensical, already disproven premise that Organics and Synthetics can't get along.

You can say to stop thinking in white and black terms... and yet, there is Black, and there is White.  Just because there are shades in between does not make Black and White invalid.

A pure win is neccessary for one key rason: this is a game, games are played to be won.

Saying that there's no right answer and no wrong answer means that there is no question.  Let me posit an example.

5+4=X  What is the Value of X?
a) 8
B) 3
c) Tomato
d) Genocide

Now, with a "There's no black and white, you have to compromise, pick the best answer" attitude, you could make a reasonable argument that 8 is close enough.  While not the 9 that we know 5+4 actually equals, 8 is almost there.  However... the answer is ****ing NINE.  And any school child with half a brain would raise his hand and say, "Mrs. Shepard, question number three has no right answer.  None of the four choices there let me do what you asked me to do at the begining of the test."  And a teacher who shrugs and says, "But this is an Art Test.  You can pick any answer you want," would be put up for review, and then fired.

#3546
BlueStorm83

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AresKeith wrote...

I've been thinking about this for a while, was TIM indoctrinated before ME2?


---  Nope.  No exposure to reaper indoctrination tech.

#3547
AresKeith

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I've been thinking about this for a while, was TIM indoctrinated before ME2?


---  Nope.  No exposure to reaper indoctrination tech.


because I heard in one of the books his eyes turned Blue like that after he came in contact with a Reaper artifact

#3548
3DandBeyond

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BlueStorm83 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I've been thinking about this for a while, was TIM indoctrinated before ME2?


---  Nope.  No exposure to reaper indoctrination tech.

AresKeith wrote...

because I heard in one of the books his eyes turned Blue like that after he came in contact with a Reaper artifact

Interesting.


In ME3 TIM went from a rather still idealistic humanity lover with a hedonistic flair-kind of like a lounge lizard with a purpose, to a crazed thing after reaper tech to fill his own desire for control no matter who he hurts even humans.

By the way I say tomato is the answer.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 27 juillet 2012 - 09:07 .


#3549
Mastone

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I am surprised people still care tbh, in the beginning I was saddened because I wished against common sense that they would end it with a bang.
But let's be fair guys in order for something to be a succes everything has to fall together during production; maybe the artists were sick of modeling the same characters again, the storywriters were dried up after months of meetings and revisions, or maybe corporate culture is winning terrain within Bioware.........who knows?...and who cares really?
As the people @Bioware should know they are being judged by the endresult and I think that they know it ( even if it's deep down) wasn't good to say the least.
Now I am not a typical gamers gamer, I just enjoy good solid stories which drag me into a world, which ME1 did, ME2 was much less and ME3 was vanilla and lost it bigtime, the only good level was Tuchanka, it is also the only thing I remember from ME3 and of course the crap (EC) endings.
But it doesn't matter anymore, they made their game and stand behind it and meanwhile work on an online starwars game that no one really digs anymore and costed miljons upon miljons....what can go wrong? ;)
I am hoping that Eidos will finish Thief4 and stay true to it's original spirit since KOTOR 3 is most definitely not coming anytime soon.....

#3550
BlueStorm83

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3DandBeyond wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I've been thinking about this for a while, was TIM indoctrinated before ME2?


---  Nope.  No exposure to reaper indoctrination tech.

AresKeith wrote...

because I heard in one of the books his eyes turned Blue like that after he came in contact with a Reaper artifact

Interesting.


In ME3 TIM went from a rather still idealistic humanity lover with a hedonistic flair-kind of like a lounge lizard with a purpose, to a crazed thing after reaper tech to fill his own desire for control no matter who he hurts even humans.

By the way I say tomato is the answer.




Tomato is CLEARLY the answer.  That was a thickly veiled Big O reference.