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Extended Cut: SPOILER Discussion


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#3676
sdinc009

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nocbl2 wrote...

Zukota wrote...

nocbl2 wrote...

Didn't realize refusing meant the death of everyone...
SORRY GALAXY!

But was that Liara I saw at the end there?


Yes, it was the recording she made. The one she mentioned to you, the one she wanted your opinion writing? Se wanted to know what you wnted put down about you.

No. I mean after the credits. The stargazer. If you look closely, you can see the back of her head kinda looks like an asari, and Liara was saying that she might outlive this cycle. Plus, her voice is deeper, implying that she's become a matriarch.


No, it's not Liara and she didn't say she'd outlive this cycle just that she might live to see it's end. Asari have a 1000 year life span. The cycles are 50,000 years. So, if this cycle ended with our defeat (that includes Liara dying) then 50,000 years later whatever races emerged discovered the time capsules and defeated the Reapers with that knowledge.

#3677
3DandBeyond

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TGiNcRySiS wrote...



I could not have said it better myself.  We know how to kill reapers.  This is not the DLC I was hoping to see.  Bioware would have been better served with origin stories of some of your squadmates like Garrus, Tali and Liara.  People that we have been with through all three games.  Even more Jack and Miranda would be better.  If it is 3 hours for 10 bucks thats not terrible.  Supposedly it also has an effect on the ending.  I don't know.  I don't know .  I don't think I can morally give Bioware more money.  I am in the middle of a 3rd and FINAL play through.



Mike Gamble said on twitter (god yes twitter is somehow a part of the ME game world) that the DLC doesn't change the ending.  Take that for what it's worth.  It adds new explanation for the events of the endings.  Yippee.  Again, whose kid did they model the star kid after just so he could be prominently featured in this game?

#3678
TGiNcRySiS

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"Expands without fundamentally changing the endings of the game." IGN header on the article changed this morning.

I love how IGN kisses Bioware/EA's butt at every corner.  It is amazing how the review sites sell out.

I am currently in the DLC announcement thread in a flame war. with a Fanboy.  I am being chastized for asking questions.

Modifié par TGiNcRySiS, 03 août 2012 - 04:24 .


#3679
3DandBeyond

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TGiNcRySiS wrote...

"Expands without fundamentally changing the endings of the game." IGN header on the article changed this morning.

I love how IGN kisses Bioware/EA's butt at every corner.  It is amazing how the review sites sell out.


Well looking at how their site is set up it's easy to see what has happened.  They are a marketplace for games.  At the top of the original announcement there's a link to buy ME3 at Gamestop for $59.99.

Gamestop also has their "review" mag and site-Game Informer.  But what is that intended to do?  It's meant to get you to buy games.  So if they write bad reviews, you may not buy.  A "reviewer" in Game Informer told readers to ignore ME3 complainers and get the game.  Ok, what?  We should be listening more to players who are not finanancially dependent on games selling well.  Game Informer will most often also give better reviews to bigger name titles, because they can then link these games for product placement sales.  It's the suggestive selling-you liked this game and it got a 9, so you might like this one by the same dev and we gave it an 8.5.

IGN is selling games on their site.  So of course they have to make their reviews positive.  Now back to this-$59.99 for ME3.  Something very odd has happened here.  It was down to $29 soon after release.  It's $33 on other "independent" sites.  And Gamestop is selling it used for $37.99, when you have to buy the code to play online?  You can get it on other sites new for that with the code included in the new package.

It looks like there's some funny business there but I don't want to name it.

#3680
sdinc009

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3DandBeyond wrote...

TGiNcRySiS wrote...



I could not have said it better myself.  We know how to kill reapers.  This is not the DLC I was hoping to see.  Bioware would have been better served with origin stories of some of your squadmates like Garrus, Tali and Liara.  People that we have been with through all three games.  Even more Jack and Miranda would be better.  If it is 3 hours for 10 bucks thats not terrible.  Supposedly it also has an effect on the ending.  I don't know.  I don't know .  I don't think I can morally give Bioware more money.  I am in the middle of a 3rd and FINAL play through.



Mike Gamble said on twitter (god yes twitter is somehow a part of the ME game world) that the DLC doesn't change the ending.  Take that for what it's worth.  It adds new explanation for the events of the endings.  Yippee.  Again, whose kid did they model the star kid after just so he could be prominently featured in this game?


Yay! More War Assets that dont F@#$ING matter! What the hell are they doing adding pointless content!?

#3681
sdinc009

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TGiNcRySiS wrote...

"Expands without fundamentally changing the endings of the game." IGN header on the article changed this morning.

I love how IGN kisses Bioware/EA's butt at every corner.  It is amazing how the review sites sell out.

I am currently in the DLC announcement thread in a flame war. with a Fanboy.  I am being chastized for asking questions.


IGN is the third section of a Human Centipede. I have -100% respect for them and their opinions have no credibilty.

#3682
TGiNcRySiS

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3DandBeyond wrote...

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

"Expands without fundamentally changing the endings of the game." IGN header on the article changed this morning.

I love how IGN kisses Bioware/EA's butt at every corner.  It is amazing how the review sites sell out.


Well looking at how their site is set up it's easy to see what has happened.  They are a marketplace for games.  At the top of the original announcement there's a link to buy ME3 at Gamestop for $59.99.

Gamestop also has their "review" mag and site-Game Informer.  But what is that intended to do?  It's meant to get you to buy games.  So if they write bad reviews, you may not buy.  A "reviewer" in Game Informer told readers to ignore ME3 complainers and get the game.  Ok, what?  We should be listening more to players who are not finanancially dependent on games selling well.  Game Informer will most often also give better reviews to bigger name titles, because they can then link these games for product placement sales.  It's the suggestive selling-you liked this game and it got a 9, so you might like this one by the same dev and we gave it an 8.5.

IGN is selling games on their site.  So of course they have to make their reviews positive.  Now back to this-$59.99 for ME3.  Something very odd has happened here.  It was down to $29 soon after release.  It's $33 on other "independent" sites.  And Gamestop is selling it used for $37.99, when you have to buy the code to play online?  You can get it on other sites new for that with the code included in the new package.

It looks like there's some funny business there but I don't want to name it.


I have completely turned to relying on player reviews.  I am no longer pre-ordering games as there is no 100 percent no brainers anymore.  I had ME3, DA2 and Diablo 3 all pre-ordered CE.  All of them were massive disappointments.  IGN, Gamepot, PC Gamer and Game Infomer are not objective enough.  DA2 was a 6-7 at best. They even acknowledged flaws but still gave it better marks.  That is a game which is a perfect example of the bias.

#3683
BlueStorm83

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TGiNcRySiS wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

TGiNcRySiS wrote...

"Expands without fundamentally changing the endings of the game." IGN header on the article changed this morning.

I love how IGN kisses Bioware/EA's butt at every corner.  It is amazing how the review sites sell out.


Well looking at how their site is set up it's easy to see what has happened.  They are a marketplace for games.  At the top of the original announcement there's a link to buy ME3 at Gamestop for $59.99.

Gamestop also has their "review" mag and site-Game Informer.  But what is that intended to do?  It's meant to get you to buy games.  So if they write bad reviews, you may not buy.  A "reviewer" in Game Informer told readers to ignore ME3 complainers and get the game.  Ok, what?  We should be listening more to players who are not finanancially dependent on games selling well.  Game Informer will most often also give better reviews to bigger name titles, because they can then link these games for product placement sales.  It's the suggestive selling-you liked this game and it got a 9, so you might like this one by the same dev and we gave it an 8.5.

IGN is selling games on their site.  So of course they have to make their reviews positive.  Now back to this-$59.99 for ME3.  Something very odd has happened here.  It was down to $29 soon after release.  It's $33 on other "independent" sites.  And Gamestop is selling it used for $37.99, when you have to buy the code to play online?  You can get it on other sites new for that with the code included in the new package.

It looks like there's some funny business there but I don't want to name it.


I have completely turned to relying on player reviews.  I am no longer pre-ordering games as there is no 100 percent no brainers anymore.  I had ME3, DA2 and Diablo 3 all pre-ordered CE.  All of them were massive disappointments.  IGN, Gamepot, PC Gamer and Game Infomer are not objective enough.  DA2 was a 6-7 at best. They even acknowledged flaws but still gave it better marks.  That is a game which is a perfect example of the bias.


I've found that TotalBiscuit is pretty objective when it comes to games.  It also seems that he simply can't be bought.  Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw is another, though he's pretty critical of everything.  I get my reviews from independant people who have no affiliation with game publishers/producers/sellers.

#3684
AlanC9

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I get my reviews from the guy at the NY Times.

Of course, he thought ME3 was great.

#3685
Estelindis

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I just played the EC today. I'd been putting it off because I couldn't make myself care about Mass Effect anymore after those endings and Bioware did say they were only explaining the existing endings in the EC. Eventually, I decided I might as well see for myself how my (once?) favourite game company had listened to our feedback.

My verdict: the additional material isn't bad; some of it is very good. It improves many things, though not everything.

My favourite extra material was the final moment between my Shepard and Kaidan, showing the squad being injured and having to be evacuated. The two of them looked heartbroken, Kaidan in particular. Kudos to whoever animated his expression as he watched Shepard leave for the last time. I also loved the final "mourning" shot with him and everyone else in front of the wall of names on the Normandy. The additional cinematics that showed the allied forces fighting and reacting to the (for the want of a better phrase) space magic was great too.

Regarding the Catalyst, there are two fundamental obstacles that the additional material doesn't enable me to overcome 1) Why should Shepard consider the Catalyst a trustworthy collaborator if it has controlled the Reapers through a huge number of cycles of destruction? The thinking of any being who regards such actions as acceptable, who cannot think outside the parameters of inevitable conflict requiring totalitarian genocide, must automatically be deeply suspect and should not form the basis of any decision on how to stop the Reapers. 2) Given that the Catalyst is able to think, decide, and act for itself (there can be no other conclusion if it truly turned its origin species into the first Reaper), why would it give Shepard any choice at all, particularly the final choice?

It is only by ignoring all these concerns that I can skip to the endings and say that the final slideshows improved the overall feeling and coherence of each one. By showing the full consequences of each end-choice, they helped me to feel more reconciled to the idea that each could end quite well (assuming best military strength, which I had). But, even still, accepting these endings forces me to make a serious disconnection with the character of my Shepard. Yes: as we are eventually shown, all works out quite well, no matter what is chosen. But when Shepard is making her choice, she has no real reason to think that this will be the case. The Catalyst is a deeply unreliable narrator and I feel that if I was in her place - as I should be when I'm fully immersed in her character - I would not really know what my grounds for making any choice would be. Let me describe my Shepard's thoughts as she tries to decide.

Synthesis? The Catalyst said that it's already tried something like this, but it didn't work because of a lack of willingness. Saren seemed fairly willing, if it furthered his goals... He still turned into a husk. None of the people to whom this would be happening would be willing, because only I have had this explained to me. So why would this work any better than any attempt before? It seems far more likely that everyone would just be turned into husks, which would ultimately be a crushing defeat and a betrayal of everything for which I fought.

Control? The Illusive Man thought he could control the Reapers and was utterly wrong. Anyone who thought they weren't controlled... who thought that they couldn't be controlled... always turned out to be mistaken. I'm amazed that I haven't been indoctrinated myself, considering the contact I've had with Reapers and their technology... Can I really be sure that I would be able to control them? It seems far more likely that, instead, my mind would be taken over and used as a tool to help destroy my people. Another betrayal.

Destroy? The Catalyst said that technological damage could be repaired... Does that mean that whatever is going to destroy EDI and the geth along with the Reapers could leave room for the geth and EDI to be rebuilt? We'd leave the Reapers destroyed but retrieve the geth and EDI from electronic backups. Could we really come out of this one wounded but able to be healed...? No, wait... Artificially intelligent lifeforms have black boxes that house their personalities. They learn and develop in unique ways - otherwise Legion would just be any geth, EDI any VI. I could as easily "regain" them by restoring them from backups as I could "regain" Ashley by growing a clone from a DNA sample. A clone would be a new person, free to develop however she wished. She'd have Ash's DNA, but she wouldn't be Ash. She wouldn't be a way to undo Ash's death on Virmire. If I choose this, I murder our synthetic allies to save the rest of us. That's not fair. That's not the fight that we all signed on for, together. It would be one thing if they all agreed to sacrifice themselves... but when would a whole race ever agree to anything? You'd never get all of humanity to sacrifice itself to save the geth. Some would. Many, I think, especially those who have known the geth. But not anything close to all. And if that sacrifice isn't free, it's murder. We came together to fight this threat in an unprecedented show of unity and understanding. In doing so, we proved this Catalyst wrong. Conflict between organic and synthic is not inevitable. In fact, if I choose this destruction, I only prove the Catalyst right. I prove it was correct to create the Reapers. I say "yes" to that solution. I won't do it.

So... it's either husks, in which case we all lose... or I fight to somehow control the Reapers. I have to choose Control, even though I don't know if I can pull it off. I must fight to succeed. I *must* control the Reapers.

Is it right to control the Reapers? If they don't have free will, no moral problem arises. If they do have free will, then they're guilty of millions of years of murder, and their right to freely choose more death for all of us has no moral weight. This much, at least, is not an issue. It's not wrong for me to control them. But can I do it?

Worst case scenario? If I fail, the Reapers only get me... only one person. They don't transform all life into husks or murder the Geth, as in the other choices. But... the one person they gain... is the last living person at the Citadel controls. I'm the only one they need to take out to win.

Is this a trap? Every choice is a nightmare, a betrayal, a surrender.

Mother... Father... Your daughter is lost. Please show me a path, a way to do this. Nothing makes sense. Nothing is clear.


So yes. None of this really coheres with the peachy endings, but I can't imagine my Shepard seeing things any other way. She can't know how things will turn out when she makes her decision. She only knows how things appear to her in that moment. There is a huge gulf here that I've always had immense difficulty crossing and the Extended Cut has not helped me to cross it. It's done lots of other great things, and certainly has not made the overall experience worse, but this disconnect remains.

#3686
Lucas Wolfen

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I just finished the Extended Cut, after completing a 2nd playthrough of ME3, and I have to say that I am quite satisfied with how the story concludes. My original reservations about the ending were more or less in line with the Angry-Joe review, "10 Reasons the ME3 Ending Sucks", and the Extended Cut, in my opinion, did an excellent job addressing those concerns.

Things I liked:
Epilogue, by EDI, Hackett or Shepard (sort of). I thought they were all exceptionally well done, and that the Control Ending was especially BAMF.
Explanation, Both in the additional conversation options with the Catalyst and how they Bioware chose to address the teleportation issues / inconsistancies from the original ending.
Explosions, more specifically, that everything didn't blow up!

Things I didn't like:
Conversation, the current dialogue between Shepard, TIM and Anderson makes the entire scene feel out of place and this wasn't changed by the EC; whether there should have been the option to side with TIM or to hear out the entirety of Anderson's "I think you'd make a great father/mother" speech, I think some more work could have been done there.
The 4th Ending, I would have liked it to be possible to actually defeat the Reapers without having to resort to the Crucible/Catalyst. While I disagree that this ending was a slap-in-the-face to everyone who hated the Catalyst, I think that with sufficiently high EMS conventional victory over the Reapers should have been an option. It would be very easy to use Anderson's victory speech (or the "bad" destruction ending speech) and use some of the other extended scenes to make this ending into something that the average player would choose... although, this may be specifically why Bioware chose not to do it this way.

Overall, I am satisfied with the work Bioware has done on the EC and hope that, in the future, they can continue to provide this level of excellent story and gameplay in the finished product and without the need to patch the ending of their games.

#3687
Luxure

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I couldn't pull myself together to play this game a 3rd time. So I just watched the EC Destroy content on YouTube, and luckily enough the guy had Liara as a LI. I didn't like it tho. Crap with sprinkles.

#3688
xDeluCx

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Hey guys I know the ending is disappointing but here your just preaching to the choir and that does not include Bioware. If you want Bioware to get frustrated enough to give us a better ending our only option is to go on twitter and endlessly tweet them.

#3689
xDeluCx

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It's got a 1 and a million chance of working but that's 1 millionth more than this gives us.
Heh- double posts

#3690
Quintus Kessler

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Tweet them to death? Hmm.

Still, I'm up for someone remaking Mass Effect 3. Even though that's not going to happen.

#3691
Captain McBuck

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So Open question, given that most of us at least seem to agree on the faults of the EC to some greater or lesser degree in essence we see what went wrong - What would you like to see in an ending, specifically? If you could tear up the old ending entirely or rework most of the "original footage" or drop things to the cutting room floor, or,Assume Direct Control of Casey Hudsons Harbinger style and make him write any ending you wanted...what would you have in it?

Modifié par Captain McBuck, 04 août 2012 - 09:50 .


#3692
TheCruxDefender

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Sheridan31 wrote...

After being open for both the literal 3 (4) ending of ME3 AND the indoctrination theory, to me the ending is still not clear.

Indoctrination part:
There is harbinger saying something like "serve us" when he hit sheppard. There are trees like in the dream afterwards. There are feelings of being watched e.g. by the keeper who never bothered for anyone before. There is ringing and buzzing in the ears of shepard. There are oily shadows when the illusive men and anderson are shown. Its unlikely that they are there (real). When i shot Anderson in the side, i bleed afterwards. This is certanly not real (indoctrination)

I like the 4 ending variants, but i still do not know whether or not they are for real. Is the indoctrination attempt over when i make my choice? (no obivous indoctrination). Did i have defeated the reaper in the endings like stated in the message afterwards?

Or is it still an indoctrination (ghostly presences, 1M1, shepard being highly suseptable, like an broken "animal" as indoctrination codex and starchild called).

I suppose starchild is still an indoctrination and the choices are not real. Only my breathing scene after choosing destroy. What then? I haven´t destroyed the reaper then, have i? it feels incomplete.

Are the choices for real despite the indoctrination attempts? Is there proof for it,  after having  an anderson-illusion who makes me bleed?

Don´t get me wrong, i can live with the 4 endings for being real. I would also be happy if there is indoctrination and a final fight after shepard did his breathings on london.

I just want answers, 6 month after i bought this game. Which part is indoctrination illusion and which is for real?


The evidence for IT is so clear.  It almost has to be true.  

The clues Sheridan31 mention.  Then there are the eerie piles of bodies that erupt around the Makos right after you are hit with Harbinger's beam, the fact that the dream sequences coincide almost exactly with the Reaper Queen's explanation of the effects of indoctrination (sour noise and oily shadows), your armor changes after being hit with Harbinger's beam, your firearm changes to the only weapon in the ME universe which has unlimited ammunition (even ME1 weapons would overload if fired continuosly), the Reaper "growls" you hear in the Citadel, and so much more.  

The question is, if IT is true, will Bioware spring the truth on players someday.  Maybe a DLC that will start with Shepard waking up in London (I know, I know, the developers have said no more ending changes, but the IT trap, if sprung, would not technically be a change in the ending would it?  Just the real truth all along). 

I have to admit that I may be biased because I am so intrigued with Indoctrination Theory.  It could be a beautiful thing, if true.  The game-players themselves, in a sort of way, were indoctrinated.  Epic from an artistic sense, not so sure it would make financial sense.  But Bioware would never be forgotten for this stunt.  

Modifié par TheCruxDefender, 04 août 2012 - 05:38 .


#3693
V-rcingetorix

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Captain McBuck wrote...

So Open question, given that most of us at least seem to agree on the faults of the EC to some greater or lesser degree in essence we see what went wrong - What would you like to see in an ending, specifically? If you could tear up the old ending entirely or rework most of the "original footage" or drop things to the cutting room floor, or, take over Casey Hudsons body and make him write any ending you wanted...what would you have in it?


I'd want to write it as a big boom, after a boss fight. Harbinger deserves a kick in the teeth (or his anatomical equivalent) and Shepard is just the man to do it.:innocent:

#3694
Zukota

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It has always been difficult for me to undo what has been done, I can still remember things from when I was three almost as though they happened yesterday, I will never forget the ending(s) and they will taint anything I try to do to change it. I therefore would probably go with the easiest option, IT.

I would have Shep wake up from the nightmare, possibly already on the citadel after being controlled briefly by the Reapers, where he could have been about to destroy the catalyst via overload. When he comes to, he begins to undo what he has done, switching instead to destroy the Reapers when a reaperized TIM approaches and attempts to stop him. This fight could be executed via button commands, with cinematic qualities, and ended in multiple ways according to readiness and paragon/renegade levels. The ending could be good, bad, or bitter-sweet depending on who your Shepard was. Maybe even have the weakened TIM serve as a last bit of temptation, Harb's last gambit to try and make you choose his way of thinking.

#3695
Estelindis

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Captain McBuck wrote...

So Open question, given that most of us at least seem to agree on the faults of the EC to some greater or lesser degree in essence we see what went wrong - What would you like to see in an ending, specifically? If you could tear up the old ending entirely or rework most of the "original footage" or drop things to the cutting room floor, or,Assume Direct Control of Casey Hudsons Harbinger style and make him write any ending you wanted...what would you have in it?


I would have had Shepard realise that she needed to defeat the Catalyst.  If it was telling the truth, then it was the one who created the Reapers and gave them purpose.  If it was lying, then it was trying to deceive and manipulate her at the moment when she was the only one in a position to take one last vital step to stop the Reapers.  In either case, the Catalyst is her final enemy and must be stopped.

Whether Shepard is able to totally defeat the Catalyst would depend on past decisions.  If it was up to me, I would set the ME1 Keeper research as the hugest contributor.  If you didn't screw up other factors badly, then having done the Keeper research would be an automatic win against the Catalyst.   The way I see it, the Keepers get into secret areas of the Citadel, such as where the Catalyst is housed.  Maybe Shepard could use their protocols to sabotage its hardware.  This would require a bit more of a callback from Chorban than we actually got in order to set it up properly, but if it was done correctly then I feel it wouldn't be a total asspull.  

The defeat of the Catalyst would have a range of consequences, vs. just one effect applied to all Reapers.  Many Reapers would simply stop functioning.  Some would go berserk, causing huge destruction before their lack of attention to their own defences either enabled them to be brought down by technically inferior forces or resulted in them crashing into huge buildings, mountains, the moon, etc.  Some would withdraw and depart; of these, some might broadcast a message of regret, but others would remain silent, leaving their purpose a mystery.  I'm sure people could think of some other effects that the defeat of the Catalyst would have!  Ultimately, this ending would result in quite a bit more loss of life than the number of geth killed in Destroy, but it would be fairly random and all would suffer to some extent or another - it wouldn't just be the geth.  

Shepard might survive, depending on military strength and some past choices, but I think it would be fitting if defeating the Catalyst fried her Cerberus cybernetics and made it impossible for them to be replaced.  She would be looking at a long time recovering, without the possibility of any magical Lazarus Project to simply return her to square one.  For my Shepard, at least, who loved Kaidan, it would provide a nice mirror of her care for him while he was convalescing, if he was the one who looked after her during the year or so I think it would take her to recover.

As an alternative, Shepard could make a willing self-sacrifice in an attempt to be sure that the Catalyst is destroyed.  This would result in less loss of life in the military and civilian populations, as the ferocity of her attack on the Catalyst would lead to more Reapers just shutting down.  However, from her point of view when trying to decide, it will be a choice between giving it everything in order to be sure (self-sacrifice) and trying to stay alive in case some other obstacle would arise that would need someone to still be alive in the Citadel to overcome it (pragmatism).

Just my thoughts!

Modifié par Estelindis, 04 août 2012 - 02:05 .


#3696
xDeluCx

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What I would change is just the ending but the whole ending forget the ****ing kid who waits for you there. What I would have liked to see is an epic enemy like instead of the leader of reapers (the catalyst) being a hologram of a child I would have liked it to be who knows some weird reaper enemy and at the end of the battle when you defeat him he says the reapers have failed then have him say the ways to bring destruction to the reapers. Then after this the game judges you on the amount of paragon you have and what your decsions in the past have been and only then it determines whether or not Shepard lives but if he does live I would much much rather see his crew mates at his funeral and have him triumphantly appear like have him walk in from the background and a good old stop grieving lets celebrate.

- oh and I call bull**** on how all synthetics must die you should be allowed to destroy the reapers and the reapers only if you are eligible so I would make Destorying the reapers only and no other synthetic a 4000 + ems possibility

Modifié par xDeluCx, 04 août 2012 - 02:16 .


#3697
3DandBeyond

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Estelindis wrote...

Captain McBuck wrote...

So Open question, given that most of us at least seem to agree on the faults of the EC to some greater or lesser degree in essence we see what went wrong - What would you like to see in an ending, specifically? If you could tear up the old ending entirely or rework most of the "original footage" or drop things to the cutting room floor, or,Assume Direct Control of Casey Hudsons Harbinger style and make him write any ending you wanted...what would you have in it?


I would have had Shepard realise that she needed to defeat the Catalyst.  If it was telling the truth, then it was the one who created the Reapers and gave them purpose.  If it was lying, then it was trying to deceive and manipulate her at the moment when she was the only one in a position to take one last vital step to stop the Reapers.  In either case, the Catalyst is her final enemy and must be stopped.

Whether Shepard is able to totally defeat the Catalyst would depend on past decisions.  If it was up to me, I would set the ME1 Keeper research as the hugest contributor.  If you didn't screw up other factors badly, then having done the Keeper research would be an automatic win against the Catalyst.   The way I see it, the Keepers get into secret areas of the Citadel, such as where the Catalyst is housed.  Maybe Shepard could use their protocols to sabotage its hardware.  This would require a bit more of a callback from Chorban than we actually got in order to set it up properly, but if it was done correctly then I feel it wouldn't be a total asspull.  

The defeat of the Catalyst would have a range of consequences, vs. just one effect applied to all Reapers.  Many Reapers would simply stop functioning.  Some would go berserk, causing huge destruction before their lack of attention to their own defences either enabled them to be brought down by technically inferior forces or resulted in them crashing into huge buildings, mountains, the moon, etc.  Some would withdraw and depart; of these, some might broadcast a message of regret, but others would remain silent, leaving their purpose a mystery.  I'm sure people could think of some other effects that the defeat of the Catalyst would have!  Ultimately, this ending would result in quite a bit more loss of life than the number of geth killed in Destroy, but it would be fairly random and all would suffer to some extent or another - it wouldn't just be the geth.  

Shepard might survive, depending on military strength and some past choices, but I think it would be fitting if defeating the Catalyst fried her Cerberus cybernetics and made it impossible for them to be replaced.  She would be looking at a long time recovering, without the possibility of any magical Lazarus Project to simply return her to square one.  For my Shepard, at least, who loved Kaidan, it would provide a nice mirror of her care for him while he was convalescing, if he was the one who looked after her during the year or so I think it would take her to recover.

As an alternative, Shepard could make a willing self-sacrifice in an attempt to be sure that the Catalyst is destroyed.  This would result in less loss of life.  However, from her point of view, it will be a choice between giving it everything in order to be sure (self-sacrifice) and trying to stay alive in case some other obstacle would arise up that would need someone to still be alive in the Citadel (pragmatism).

Just my thoughts!


This is pretty much what I'd like to see.  The catalyst seen as an enemy-perhaps getting mad and morphing into the VI of what it really is, Harbinger or The overseer reaper.  I'd love it if the catalyst could be destroyed, weakening the reapers making them vulnerable and beatable.

Absent that, I posted before.  Get rid of the catalyst as that AI that is offering 3 choices and even keep the 3 solution types as naturally coming from the way you played the game with good and bad versions of each.

#3698
V-rcingetorix

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A end boss fight would potentially include all of the upgrades Shepard could make to the Citadel. Think about it, Cerberus turret schematics, Krogan power grid alterations, C-sec tech boosts and authority alterations plus all the publicity from the jerk reporter and Allers.

Suppose the main boss (in the Citadel) is Harbinger, marching along the Presidium walkway like a giant spider. Shepard could fight with a variety of heavy weapons, plus the targeting laser from Rannoch (coordinate via Geth/EDI). Turrets that C-sec re-purposed with the Cerberus schematics could cover Shepard from Reaper infantry units, and the Krogan power grid could decrease the amount of time required for the turrets/targeting laser to recharge.

The General helped by Shepard (black market weapons) and cured (Cerberus poison) could direct heavy fire, and Jack's biotic squad could direct a biotic artillery strike on occasion.

If Grunts squad survived, they could charge through clearing all infantry units (similar to the DA:O elf/dwarf/human/wizard reinforcements in the final fights), or Turian fighters could swoop in to distract a Destroyer or two.

If the Rachni survived, they could swarm Harbingers legs, biting his ankles or fly Rachni scout ships into his eyepiece. Geth (if they survived) could send in Geth Pyros/Primes/Hunter units and add to the distraction (snipers if you sided with Legion in ME2). Shadow Broker guards (if LOTSB was completed) and Aria's mercs could lend a hand as well.

Basically, any and all decisions made could be represented at a boss fight.

Final idea: TIM, straining and struggling view, red tinted, camera zooms out to reveal he is inside Harbinger, where he was placed to complete the indoctrination process. He's still fighting it, eventually giving Shepard a chance to end the whole mess with a final target-laser strike.

Normandy fires the Thanix cannon from point blank range, Harbinger goes down. He lands on the "self-destruct' button/circuit/switch and the whole collective shudders.

Some Reapers collapse, others spin in circles. Two begin a tango, while a third starts calling out a square dance.

Okay, bit of a loony ending. But it could've been so doggone EPIC!

#3699
BlueStorm83

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xDeluCx wrote...

Hey guys I know the ending is disappointing but here your just preaching to the choir and that does not include Bioware. If you want Bioware to get frustrated enough to give us a better ending our only option is to go on twitter and endlessly tweet them.


I don't do twitter.  That's one of my biggest problems with the "Comprehensive Mass Effect Three Experience."  That you can't just get the game by playing the game.  You also have to do Twitter and iPads and Downloadable Apps and all this other technological bull**** that I don't care for.  I've got nothing against Mass Effect: Infiltrator... just make it be a separate entity, that does not influence the outcome of ME3.  Which it does.  I have nothing against using Twitter to talk about a game.. but you don't KILL OFF A ****ING GAME CHARACTER IN A ****ING TWEET, UNLESS YOU ARE AN ASS HOLE.

#3700
BlueStorm83

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Captain McBuck wrote...

So Open question, given that most of us at least seem to agree on the faults of the EC to some greater or lesser degree in essence we see what went wrong - What would you like to see in an ending, specifically? If you could tear up the old ending entirely or rework most of the "original footage" or drop things to the cutting room floor, or,Assume Direct Control of Casey Hudsons Harbinger style and make him write any ending you wanted...what would you have in it?


---  One word answer time!  VICTORY.  That's what I want in an ending.  Not "I want to be with you forever!"  Not "I'll take over your awesome job!"  Not, "I dislike your methods, but I now see that you were totally right in your motivations!"  And not "No, you're a **** head, **** you, we can win this on our-" and then we die.  I want to WIN.

*edited only to fix my crapped out spelling of the word "Answer."  Originally spelled it awnse.*

**Edited again because I screwed up the spelling of edited above.  Originally put in two of the letter "d."  Sigh.**

Modifié par BlueStorm83, 04 août 2012 - 04:49 .