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[EXMugamy]

One question: - The theory about the "Beings of Light" it's true or false?? Because this theory makes too much sense, for me of course.

[3DandBeyond]

EXMugamy wrote...

One question: - The theory about the "Beings of Light" it's true or false?? Because this theory makes too much sense, for me of course.

Well I haven't as yet seen anything linking it to anything.  The idea that beings of light were meant to protect organics from machine devils. 

Anything could have made a lot of sense if it had been more than just one codex entry or a planetary description that people had talked about.  For instance, look at the description for the planet Joab, a very interesting planet.  What did the time capsules say?  Did anyone ever try to determine what happened there oh say in all the years that Joab was known to exist.  The N7 mission there is all you get and it's meaningless.

It would have been infinitely more satisfying if there was a puzzle to be solved, if there was an actual feeling like there was a puzzle.  It's like stuff is just thrown in with little meaning.

I also look at some of the codex entries you get for ME3.  I have Aeia which was a mission in ME2 for Jacob's loyalty.  The planet has toxic food (flora and fauna).  Why's it still in ME3 unless it's relevant to ME3?  I think it's the planet the Normandy lands on at the end and that means in the original endings where the Normandy crashes there all they have to eat is the toxic food.   The ME3 codex doesn't mention the food though.  Another dead end, LOL.

[V-rcingetorix]

There were a lot of missed opportunities in ME3; Emily Wong, Shiala and the colonists of Zhus Hope (one e-mail suffices, I suppose), Aria/Omega and the mercs, not to mention all the missed squad potential with the ME2 squad.

Maybe DLC will bring in a little ME2 squad, maybe not. What's the point if Shepard always dies alone? One breath doesn't cut it.

ME1: stoic walking to camera, after limping out of a Reaper Pile-Up (to friends obvious relief).

ME2: Epic..no, let me retype: EPIC!!!!! boss fight, with escape from thousands of enemies, aided by friends (if and only if you did side missions, that was pro!) and a leap straight from the Olympics. Shepard walks past crew and nods at them (return nods) and consults/w Joker over a datapad.

ME3: acceptable fight to the Citadel....ten minute ragchew with the Penultimate enemy...and a choice that ends with Suicide, Suicide or Suicide.

*breathe*

"When can I go to the stars?"

"When you pass English writing 101, with a concentration in thematic elements."

[BlueStorm83]

--- I didn't mind the way that the Squad Members were there or not in identical missions if they lived or died in ME2... but I would have liked things a LITTLE different this way:

If we had that ME2 squadmate alive at the end of the game, don't have them WITH us there in ME3, let us actually play as them for that mission. Let Shepard go and do something more important, and let his bros get his back for once. But nah. Shepard had to be the Galaxy's nanny and wipe its bottom, constantly, and make way for an ending where Shepard is apparently the only living being that ever mattered.

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- I didn't mind the way that the Squad Members were there or not in identical missions if they lived or died in ME2... but I would have liked things a LITTLE different this way:

If we had that ME2 squadmate alive at the end of the game, don't have them WITH us there in ME3, let us actually play as them for that mission. Let Shepard go and do something more important, and let his bros get his back for once. But nah. Shepard had to be the Galaxy's nanny and wipe its bottom, constantly, and make way for an ending where Shepard is apparently the only living being that ever mattered.

This actually could have had potential.

[3DandBeyond]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

There were a lot of missed opportunities in ME3; Emily Wong, Shiala and the colonists of Zhus Hope (one e-mail suffices, I suppose), Aria/Omega and the mercs, not to mention all the missed squad potential with the ME2 squad.

Maybe DLC will bring in a little ME2 squad, maybe not. What's the point if Shepard always dies alone? One breath doesn't cut it.

ME1: stoic walking to camera, after limping out of a Reaper Pile-Up (to friends obvious relief).

ME2: Epic..no, let me retype: EPIC!!!!! boss fight, with escape from thousands of enemies, aided by friends (if and only if you did side missions, that was pro!) and a leap straight from the Olympics. Shepard walks past crew and nods at them (return nods) and consults/w Joker over a datapad.

ME3: acceptable fight to the Citadel....ten minute ragchew with the Penultimate enemy...and a choice that ends with Suicide, Suicide or Suicide.

*breathe*

"When can I go to the stars?"

"When you pass English writing 101, with a concentration in thematic elements."

That leap in ME2 was really as you said EPIC! I know some didn't like the beginning of ME2, but I liked both.  I felt this sense of loss at the beginning and that stance that Shepard took in space before dying-body language said everying.  I'm gonna die, come get me.  At then end again it's subtle-the leap, the looks of respect from a crew that didn't even respect themselves before, telling TIM to stuff it.  For me, it was like this:  I felt the beginning and I felt the ending ending.  In ME3, I didn't feel anything at the beginning or the ending.  I watched both and was merely watching, devoid of feeling.  Well unless anger, dismay, and annoyance count.

[EXMugamy]

This DLC will change much in the end? Or only with dialogue?

[3DandBeyond]

EXMugamy wrote...

This DLC will change much in the end? Or only with dialogue?

If you mean Leviathan, well the official word from Bioware is that it will only add dialogue to the kid.  IGN put out an announcement that said it would change the endings and apparently was told to take that back and then also said it would not change the ending.

Chris Priestly went on to be very specific in that the Leviathan DLC won't change or add or clarify anything with the ending, but will add dialogue to the kid.

If you mean the EC-Extended Cut, well that does not fundamentally change the 3 endings-it explains them and the star kid talks more about how they work, and afterward there are more scenes of what happens.  Destroy however is sort of unchanged and left open to speculation and the kid still does not explain it well.  You get more narrative, happy slideshows, and cutscenes.  The galaxy is not destroyed.  They added in some things to explain why Joker leaves, how people got back on the Normandy (some people but not all), and the Normandy isn't stranded.  But it's still a lot the same as before.

[EXMugamy]

Something new about Shepard in the rubble? Or other thing?? Thanks.

[3DandBeyond]

EXMugamy wrote...

Something new about Shepard in the rubble? Or other thing?? Thanks.

Sorry, they left Shepard in the rubble.  The only thing that happens is after the blast goes off and hits Shepard, there's Hackett narrating and saying they will rebuild everything and that uniting was the key to everything and they would not forget those they lost.  There are some slides showing things like Krogan babies if you cured the genophage, but no geth, and there's a memorial wall scene (on the Normandy).  Anderson's name is on it and so is EDI's and anyone else you lost.  If your LI was included in the crew then s/he will start to put Shepard's name up and stop.  With Liara and Garrus you can see a little half smile and then you see the Normandy take off and the last thing is the torso in the rubble scene, taking a gasp.  If your LI is say Miranda or someone not on the crew, Liara may still be the one at the Memorial Wall.

There are a couple extra scenes as well of Joker picking up your 2 teammembers at the run to the conduit, in front of Harbinger (kind of nonsense but if the LI is there, then you get a poignant goodbye scene).  Then Joker runs away because he's ordered to leave.

Then there is one new ending that's not a choice.  You can shoot the kid and he says "so be it" in an evil voice and basically the reapers destroy the galaxy and some long time later Liara's time capsule is heard warning another cycle about the reapers and they destroy them (not seen)-the last scene is a female stargazer talking to a child.  You can also tell the kid you refuse to choose and get the same basic ending but Shepard will give a great speech about people standing up and relying on themselves and rejecting the kid and the reapers and that if they die, they die free.  It's a great speech, but everyone dies.

Otherwise, in control and synthesis, Shepard still dies. In control, Shepard becomes kind of god of the reapers who will fix everything in the galaxy and become the galaxy police to make sure nobody destroys the many.  The voice of Shepard sounds part machine, the music is ominous and Shepard sounds ominous as well.

Synthesis shows everyone with green eyes and EDI says it may lead to immortality and she says she's alive (well she told my Shepard that in London already).  The kid says this is about perfection.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 09 août 2012 - 02:08 .

[EXMugamy]

I already knew that. I played and saw the extended cut. It will only add a few new scenes right? I saw my final with Shepard in the rubble.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

The refuse/reject ending is particularly comical. After proclaimimg with his drama that Shepard's success in arriving on the Citadel means "my solution [the Reapers] won't work anymore," if you refuse to make a choice, the Star Kid says "So be it" and then "The Cycle continues." But I thought you just said your solution won't work anymore. Oh yeah, you're an idiot.

[3DandBeyond]

EXMugamy wrote...

I already knew that. I played and saw the extended cut. It will only add a few new scenes right? I saw my final with Shepard in the rubble.

I'm not sure what you are asking then-do you mean compared to the original endings?  You mean you didn't play the original?

[3DandBeyond]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

The refuse/reject ending is particularly comical. After proclaimimg with his drama that Shepard's success in arriving on the Citadel means "my solution [the Reapers] won't work anymore," if you refuse to make a choice, the Star Kid says "So be it" and then "The Cycle continues." But I thought you just said your solution won't work anymore. Oh yeah, you're an idiot.

Exactly.  I could never understand this.  If his solution no longer works, then the best choice is to do nothing.  Walk away.  It isn't working.  So you refuse and the cycle continues.  Well, isn't that convenient.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

3D,

Your footer which says "Head canon my money" is truly one of the funniest signature blocks I've seen.

I will not pay for single player DLC without an ending where you can win. It is that simple. The single player game is pointless. There is no winning. No matter how well you play, you get a lousy ending. That's not a game.

Fix it and the story becomes interesting again. Don't fix it and who cares? Not me. Why do I care about Shepard with a rogue reaper? (Is he one of the ME2 Reapers who likes inflicting pain or an ME3 Star Child Reaper just sweeping the galactic floor cuz its his job?) No matter what happens, I end up in a rubble pile. So remind me why I care.

[3DandBeyond]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

3D,

Your footer which says "Head canon my money" is truly one of the funniest signature blocks I've seen.

I will not pay for single player DLC without an ending where you can win. It is that simple. The single player game is pointless. There is no winning. No matter how well you play, you get a lousy ending. That's not a game.

Fix it and the story becomes interesting again. Don't fix it and who cares? Not me. Why do I care about Shepard with a rogue reaper? (Is he one of the ME2 Reapers who likes inflicting pain or an ME3 Star Child Reaper just sweeping the galactic floor cuz its his job?) No matter what happens, I end up in a rubble pile. So remind me why I care.

It just occurred to me one day-I'd defend people that said they needed a Shepard reunion scene and every time someone said it, they'd get ridiculed and told to use their imagination or they were supposed to head canon it.  My answer was partly, we paid for endings and didn't get one with clarity and closure as promised.  But also, I note people can imagine things but we are all wired differently.  Some just plain need to see in game that scene for it to be real although they can daydream anything after it.

I've gotten so sick of the idea of speculation and ambiguity as some substitute for actually finishing the game that well money head canon made sense.  Imaginary ending leads to a lot of imaginary things.  I can't see the need for more war assets (a Leviathan) when we can't use what we already have.  I have about 9000 EMS.  How much more do I need to actually win?

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Exactly. I also have promoted over a dozen muliplayer characters, scavenged for war assets, etc. It is a pointless exercise. Whatever you do, you end up under rocks. I don't think it is asking too much to see a victory scene. Frankly, I think it is an imperative for a good game, particularly if you want people to replay it. And the Reaper story is an incoherent mess. Why do I want more of it?

Bioware likes to say that ME3 is Shepard's story. But it really isn't. At the end of the game, it is Star Kid's story. That's not an interesting story. I don't care about Star Kid. He is an annoyance.

My feeling about DLC is that I feel enormous betrayal and frustration with a well-played game resulting in my character beneath a pile of stones. I have no desire to pay money to relive a feeling of frustration. That's just masochism.

Fix the story to allow a well-played game to win. Otherwise, all the war assets in the world just give you the very same rubble pile you already have.

[Sovereign330]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

The refuse/reject ending is particularly comical. After proclaimimg with his drama that Shepard's success in arriving on the Citadel means "my solution [the Reapers] won't work anymore," if you refuse to make a choice, the Star Kid says "So be it" and then "The Cycle continues." But I thought you just said your solution won't work anymore. Oh yeah, you're an idiot.

The reason the Catalyst reverted back to its original solution was because even though it was exposed to new possibilities, shep (the only person there at the time who could enact a new solution) chose not to. hence why the catalyst deemed the proper course of action to resume harvest

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Why is Shepard the only person who could enact a new solution? While that might be true for synthesis, it isn't true for the other two choices available to Shepard, which the Star Child seemed to deem acceptable when compared to the current solution that "won't work anymore." He could just tell his Reapers to start helping everyone and share their vast knowledge and hand out flowers like the Control ending. Or he could just push his little self-destruct button and blow up all his Reaper buddies like Destroy. Anything would be better than the solution that won't work anymore.

Of course, all of this is silly because the ending is ridiculous.

[V-rcingetorix]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Why is Shepard the only person who could enact a new solution? While that might be true for synthesis, it isn't true for the other two choices available to Shepard, which the Star Child seemed to deem acceptable when compared to the current solution that "won't work anymore." He could just tell his Reapers to start helping everyone and share their vast knowledge and hand out flowers like the Control ending. Or he could just push his little self-destruct button and blow up all his Reaper buddies like Destroy. Anything would be better than the solution that won't work anymore.

Of course, all of this is silly because the ending is ridiculous.

Excellent question. Why not Garrus, who has a few tech upgrades (took a missile to the face in ME2), or Tali, who apparently has a lot of tech implants?

Here does logic not hold.

[SeptimusMagistos]

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I want to thank Bioware for the DLC.

After hearing all the furor about the endings, I came in prepared to hate them. Instead I found they were all right. Not perfect, but lacking any major plot holes and presenting me with alternatives some of which I found to be an acceptably happy end.

Thank you for sparing me that particular annoyance.

[Iakus]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Why is Shepard the only person who could enact a new solution? While that might be true for synthesis, it isn't true for the other two choices available to Shepard, which the Star Child seemed to deem acceptable when compared to the current solution that "won't work anymore." He could just tell his Reapers to start helping everyone and share their vast knowledge and hand out flowers like the Control ending. Or he could just push his little self-destruct button and blow up all his Reaper buddies like Destroy. Anything would be better than the solution that won't work anymore.

Of course, all of this is silly because the ending is ridiculous.

Excellent question. Why not Garrus, who has a few tech upgrades (took a missile to the face in ME2), or Tali, who apparently has a lot of tech implants?

Here does logic not hold.

Or any biotic.

[_ThePaSch_]

BW go out of their way to basically create a new ending that shows the aftermath, the crew's fate, doesn't leave the Normandy stranded anymore AND retcons the relays being destroyed... and of course, there are still people moaning and complaining about it. Wow.

I was very disappointed with the original ending(s). Now, I just played the EC, and I really like it! The endings now actually differ, show the impact of your choices, adapt to your personal story. Sure, they don't branch into, like, a billion different ways, based on how many drinks you decided to drink in the Normandy or on the Citadel, or whatever. But I find it to be a huge improvement over the color filters of the original endings.

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

He could just tell his Reapers to start helping everyone and share their vast knowledge and hand out flowers like the Control ending. Or he could just push his little self-destruct button and blow up all his Reaper buddies like Destroy. Anything would be better than the solution that won't work anymore.

Why should he? It's not in his interest to help the organics in any way. All he cares about is how to stop the "chaos".
Basically, all he's saying is "If you have a better idea, go ahead and try. But I'll stay out of it - you will have brought whatever happens upon yourself." You refuse to do anything? Don't want to choose? "Fine. Then I'll decide - and since you didn't have any better ideas, I might as well continue doing what I have been doing."
What I actually find weird is his "My solution does not work anymore". Why wouldn't it work anymore? Wipe 'em all out, process the organics into a Reaper and let the new species go their merry way. They'll evolve, create new synthetics, they'll turn against them and then it's reaping time again. Yes, in the current cycle, synthetics and organics ARE fighting alongside each other - that's why he gives Shepard a choice in the first place.

People are pissed about how Shepard doesn't survive. Well, that's fine, your opinion, but I don't care too much - he sacrifices his life so the galaxy may live. Whether he decides to control, to destroy or to "combine", he dies a heroic death to save his friends, squadmates and basically every single life in the galaxy.

My problem with the original ending was that it didn't give closure at all. You sacrifice yourself to destroy the reapers, but that results in the destruction of the Mass Relays, blowing entire systems to hell and stranding every fleet in the Sol system. You sacrifice yourself to control the reapers, but that results in the destruction of the Mass Relays, blowing entire systems to hell and stranding every fleet in the Sol system. You choose synthesis, sacrifice yourself, but that results in the destruction of the Mass Relays, blowing entire systems to hell and stranding every fleet in the Sol system. What?!

The Extended Cut added that closure. You see the inhabitants of the galaxy work together to rebuild what has been lost. You see them triumph, celebrate. You see them flourish. And you see them honor Shepard as the hero, the martyr, who made that all possible.

[V-rcingetorix]

@_ThePaSch_

The EC fixed a lot of plotholes. Granted, it made a few more, but it fixed a lot. For that, I am happy...kinda.

My problem is that the ME3 ending simply doesn't measure up to the ME2 ending, or the ME1 ending for that matter.

ME1 had an ending with this: (deleted image of Shepard standing in front of a space station, blue sky looking off into the distance).

ME2 had an ending where you saw Shepard walking/talking. No romance, no brofist, just yakkity walk.

ME3 didn't even have that. Just:
*rubble* fans lean forward in their chairs, eyes wide, is Shepard alive?
*gasp*
*black screen* fans scratch head. What just happened?

EDIT: how do I post a screenshot here? I tried, but it gave me a lot of gibberish typing. Pleasethankyou.

Modifié par V-rcingetorix, 09 août 2012 - 06:55 .

[EXMugamy]

What I meant was this: I played in both the regular version and the EC included. So I know one thing. The Leviathan that DLC will change the game? He is going to change something important in the end?