4048 réponses à ce sujet

[kglaser]

For me, the Extended Cut did not fix everything and it is still quite flawed, although I am happier with it than without it. Final analysis: I am still really disappointed in BW overall, and my opinion of them will never be the same again. OTOH, I am happy with what they were able to accomplish with the EC. It certainly improved the ending for me.
I just long for the halcyon days where this company could do no wrong. We will surely never see those days again. And they have only themselves to blame. *cough it started with DA2 and ME3 ending was nail in the coffin cough*

[Canned Bullets]

I liked the new endings, I kind of wish that in the Destroy ending when Shepard survives that it shows his crew discovering his body. Also I wish they went with actual cutscenes instead of a slideshow. Then again they had time and budget constraints.

[BlueStorm83]

Canned Bullets wrote...

I liked the new endings, I kind of wish that in the Destroy ending when Shepard survives that it shows his crew discovering his body. Also I wish they went with actual cutscenes instead of a slideshow. Then again they had time and budget constraints.

---  The new epilogue slideshows and voiceovers were very well done.  The big and honestly unforgivable facet of them is that they're all still predicated on playing into the assumptions and ideas of an insane/moronic/evil starchild.

And when I say unforgivable, I don't mean that in the emotional sense of it, I mean it in the way that it's not the kind of thing you can just overlook and roll with.  The crucible is a huge honking MacGuffin, and it can be "forgiven" since it moves the plot along and that's okay... until it produces the Starboy.

[KiganMatsuei]

Ugh, Leviathan was just announced on Facebook and fanboys/girls that don't care about the quality of what they get are throwing themselves at it. One even said he would take the day off work to play it. And I spent way too much time talking to some girl with a my little pony profile picture. She kept trying to convince me that the ending was great, there were no plot holes, choices from prior games still matter, etc.

That there was nothing wrong with Starbrat or his choices. She thought they were great choices, right in line with saving or abandoning the Destiny Ascension.

She even claimed that Arrival didn't mean anything because that relay was hit with an Asteroid, so it wasn't the same thing.

Blah, EA thrives on those customers and looks like they intend for Bioware to do so as well.

[Cr4sh Dummy]

Kigan, I've come to realise that choices made in prior games only add "easter eggs" to the game & perhaps a few more lines of dialogue. They don't affect the ending in any game. I think arrival did a good job at enhancing the Reaper arch and Leviathan will continue to contribute to that myth.

As for the first batch of fixes to the ending, the epilogues were nice and needed. With Leviathan enhancing it further, I'm eager to see how they implemented it.

[hypnotizedmind]

There really isn't a difference between the two, if you ask me.

The few seconds of watching Garrus and Liara get picked up by the Normandy were settling, but I watched the original ending on Youtube and there were very minute differences.

I could have done without the slideshow.

BUT WHAT REALLY GOT ME:

When I watched the original ending, I saw the prompt after the credits telling you..
"The legend of Shepard lives on through our DLC!"

That was just disgusting.

[KiganMatsuei]

Lives on through DLC...except that it happens before the ending which means that it does not, in fact, live on at all.

[ham89]

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I keep thinking about this for awhile, why the hell does Shepard keep walking towards the tube while s/he keeps shooting it

Art and a lot of drinking.

because they were just fine shooting from the area they started

here is the real head scratcher how did shephard kill all synthetics by simply shooting at a tube thts majic until valid explanation is givin

I think shooting the Tube causes the Crucible and Citadel to overload, but that doesn't explain how it kills all synthetics, thats Bioware lol

exactly its majic and it shouldn't be accepted real sci fi's have to grit write endings tht still at times dissapoint fans but they would still accept it I don't see how anyone accepted this crap it's tasteless

 

Yes in fact we can only assume how the energy is dispersed, so what I like to assume is the catalyst can change what the energy targets and what it can do depending on what Shepard does. So if Shepard destroys the tube, it indeed overloads the energy that is specifically targeted to synthetics by the catalyst, and so on to the other 2 endings. Frankly, saying it's magic is saying every sci-fi game is magic, in which case you dislike all sci-fi things, because if you think about it everything is explained, yes, but it defies the laws of physics in the real world, and you never fully understand it (like Halo's slipspace or Star Treks hyper space.) So, whatever explanation Bioware would come up with to explain the disperse of energy, it would still be "magic" (Technology we don't understand) But that's the point of sci-fi! Crazy technology, and made up elements that can defie physics! (element zero) I think Mass Effect qualifies as "real sci-fi" too. 

Modifié par ham89, 16 août 2012 - 05:54 .

[ham89]

KiganMatsuei wrote...

Ugh, Leviathan was just announced on Facebook and fanboys/girls that don't care about the quality of what they get are throwing themselves at it. One even said he would take the day off work to play it. And I spent way too much time talking to some girl with a my little pony profile picture. She kept trying to convince me that the ending was great, there were no plot holes, choices from prior games still matter, etc.

That there was nothing wrong with Starbrat or his choices. She thought they were great choices, right in line with saving or abandoning the Destiny Ascension.

She even claimed that Arrival didn't mean anything because that relay was hit with an Asteroid, so it wasn't the same thing.

Blah, EA thrives on those customers and looks like they intend for Bioware to do so as well.

 

I know I probably won't convince you, but the last game does carry on all your previous decisions during the game, while the ending isn't affected at all, if you don't like that then your S.O.L, your choices did affect the crew mates involved, which were almost all of them, and what their fates might be and which war assets you might get DURING the game, if you didn't care for any of the characters than yes, you will be disappointed. but then again, which mass effect game actually had your choices affect the ending of the game? None I believe, only what would happen in the NEXT game. If you don't like Mass Effect period, than I'm just wasting my time and yours.

[BlueStorm83]

ham89 wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I keep thinking about this for awhile, why the hell does Shepard keep walking towards the tube while s/he keeps shooting it

Art and a lot of drinking.

because they were just fine shooting from the area they started

here is the real head scratcher how did shephard kill all synthetics by simply shooting at a tube thts majic until valid explanation is givin

I think shooting the Tube causes the Crucible and Citadel to overload, but that doesn't explain how it kills all synthetics, thats Bioware lol

exactly its majic and it shouldn't be accepted real sci fi's have to grit write endings tht still at times dissapoint fans but they would still accept it I don't see how anyone accepted this crap it's tasteless

 

Yes in fact we can only assume how the energy is dispersed, so what I like to assume is the catalyst can change what the energy targets and what it can do depending on what Shepard does. So if Shepard destroys the tube, it indeed overloads the energy that is specifically targeted to synthetics by the catalyst, and so on to the other 2 endings. Frankly, saying it's magic is saying every sci-fi game is magic, in which case you dislike all sci-fi things, because if you think about it everything is explained, yes, but it defies the laws of physics in the real world, and you never fully understand it (like Halo's slipspace or Star Treks hyper space.) So, whatever explanation Bioware would come up with to explain the disperse of energy, it would still be "magic" (Technology we don't understand) But that's the point of sci-fi! Crazy technology, and made up elements that can defie physics! (element zero) I think Mass Effect qualifies as "real sci-fi" too. 

There'ws a HUGE difference between:

"There is an element with zero atomic mass.  It is comprised entirely of electrons, and has neither protons nor neutrons.  Passing an electrical current through a quantity of this material expands it in a "mass-effect field" effectively causing a net loss or net gain of mass over a larger area, without actually altering the amount of matter in it," which is predicated on a postulation regarding a non-real material, and....

"Shooting a pipe that then explodes makes this super weapon target all "synthetic life" but not other mechanical or electronic technology, and not even VIRTUAL Intelligence.  OR, you can grab what is clearly an exposed spark-gap which, though it has NO neural interface, will somehow copy your personality and use it to replace my own, while at the same time dissolving your physical body.  Or you can jump into this energy beam that will break down your body and spread its "essence" across all life in the galaxy.  Ignore the fact that the smallest subdivision of YOU that can be called YOU is one complete strand of DNA, and there aren't even enough strands of DNA in your body to give one to every human being alive in the galaxy, and ignore the fact that this would ALSO discount the fact that this option is only open to you over your cybernetic implants."

---  There is a TREMENDOUS difference between Science Fiction and Fantasy.  Star Trek is Science Fiction, because it tries to work within confines of its own established laws of physics.  Farscape was Fantasy, despite being set in space with lasers, because it made up crazy crap left and right.  I love both, but they each have their own niche and try not to deviate from it.  Until the end, Mass Effect was Science Fiction; it had simple "scientific" princibles governing how the Mass Effect worked and could be manipulated, and then the Catalyst made it 100% into Fantasy, and badly written fantasy at that.  EC or no EC, it violates the means and mode of the work as a whole.  It would be like Michelangelo carving David, but then using Playdoh to craft him a big blue Minecraft sword in his hand, and a big old rooster comb on his head.

[BlueStorm83]

ham89 wrote...

KiganMatsuei wrote...

Ugh, Leviathan was just announced on Facebook and fanboys/girls that don't care about the quality of what they get are throwing themselves at it. One even said he would take the day off work to play it. And I spent way too much time talking to some girl with a my little pony profile picture. She kept trying to convince me that the ending was great, there were no plot holes, choices from prior games still matter, etc.

That there was nothing wrong with Starbrat or his choices. She thought they were great choices, right in line with saving or abandoning the Destiny Ascension.

She even claimed that Arrival didn't mean anything because that relay was hit with an Asteroid, so it wasn't the same thing.

Blah, EA thrives on those customers and looks like they intend for Bioware to do so as well.

 

I know I probably won't convince you, but the last game does carry on all your previous decisions during the game, while the ending isn't affected at all, if you don't like that then your S.O.L, your choices did affect the crew mates involved, which were almost all of them, and what their fates might be and which war assets you might get DURING the game, if you didn't care for any of the characters than yes, you will be disappointed. but then again, which mass effect game actually had your choices affect the ending of the game? None I believe, only what would happen in the NEXT game. If you don't like Mass Effect period, than I'm just wasting my time and yours.

This is correct.  Your choices in previous games don't necessarily have to affect every single thing that happens later; the crush I had on a girl in 6th grade affected things that happend for the next two or three years.  Then it stopped affecting everything.

However... there were quite a few choices that you could make that would either provide more content, or provide NO content.  For instance, Kelly Chambers.  I never ran into her in ME3.  For the simple reason that I didn't want to **** her.  What's his face, the fan, I can't remember his name.  CONRAD!  He wasn't there for me... until he suddenly showed up in a cutscene with no explanation.  If you ask me, something should either have multiple possible outcomes (All the Mordin/Wrex stuff from ME1 and 2!) or should not be brought up at all.

Personally, I think that they should just stop having these games that wildly diverge and carry over between installments.  It's a recipe to disappoint people.  If Shepard's story had ended in ME1, and we had a new main character in ME2 and ME3, then 99% of the complaints about things not mattering would go away.

[ham89]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

ham89 wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I keep thinking about this for awhile, why the hell does Shepard keep walking towards the tube while s/he keeps shooting it

Art and a lot of drinking.

because they were just fine shooting from the area they started

here is the real head scratcher how did shephard kill all synthetics by simply shooting at a tube thts majic until valid explanation is givin

I think shooting the Tube causes the Crucible and Citadel to overload, but that doesn't explain how it kills all synthetics, thats Bioware lol

exactly its majic and it shouldn't be accepted real sci fi's have to grit write endings tht still at times dissapoint fans but they would still accept it I don't see how anyone accepted this crap it's tasteless

 

Yes in fact we can only assume how the energy is dispersed, so what I like to assume is the catalyst can change what the energy targets and what it can do depending on what Shepard does. So if Shepard destroys the tube, it indeed overloads the energy that is specifically targeted to synthetics by the catalyst, and so on to the other 2 endings. Frankly, saying it's magic is saying every sci-fi game is magic, in which case you dislike all sci-fi things, because if you think about it everything is explained, yes, but it defies the laws of physics in the real world, and you never fully understand it (like Halo's slipspace or Star Treks hyper space.) So, whatever explanation Bioware would come up with to explain the disperse of energy, it would still be "magic" (Technology we don't understand) But that's the point of sci-fi! Crazy technology, and made up elements that can defie physics! (element zero) I think Mass Effect qualifies as "real sci-fi" too. 

There'ws a HUGE difference between:

"There is an element with zero atomic mass.  It is comprised entirely of electrons, and has neither protons nor neutrons.  Passing an electrical current through a quantity of this material expands it in a "mass-effect field" effectively causing a net loss or net gain of mass over a larger area, without actually altering the amount of matter in it," which is predicated on a postulation regarding a non-real material, and....

"Shooting a pipe that then explodes makes this super weapon target all "synthetic life" but not other mechanical or electronic technology, and not even VIRTUAL Intelligence.  OR, you can grab what is clearly an exposed spark-gap which, though it has NO neural interface, will somehow copy your personality and use it to replace my own, while at the same time dissolving your physical body.  Or you can jump into this energy beam that will break down your body and spread its "essence" across all life in the galaxy.  Ignore the fact that the smallest subdivision of YOU that can be called YOU is one complete strand of DNA, and there aren't even enough strands of DNA in your body to give one to every human being alive in the galaxy, and ignore the fact that this would ALSO discount the fact that this option is only open to you over your cybernetic implants."

---  There is a TREMENDOUS difference between Science Fiction and Fantasy.  Star Trek is Science Fiction, because it tries to work within confines of its own established laws of physics.  Farscape was Fantasy, despite being set in space with lasers, because it made up crazy crap left and right.  I love both, but they each have their own niche and try not to deviate from it.  Until the end, Mass Effect was Science Fiction; it had simple "scientific" princibles governing how the Mass Effect worked and could be manipulated, and then the Catalyst made it 100% into Fantasy, and badly written fantasy at that.  EC or no EC, it violates the means and mode of the work as a whole.  It would be like Michelangelo carving David, but then using Playdoh to craft him a big blue Minecraft sword in his hand, and a big old rooster comb on his head.

 

I guess the lack of an explanation is ample reason to be a little confused and somewhat disappointed, for you at least. I'm fine without an explanation, although one could have been provided, which is weird because the Extended Cut was supposed to explain EVERYTHING right? I don't have that much of a problem with it because I'm sure there is some sort of Mass Effect'esque explanation for it, but just not provided(the catalyst rushing you to pick a choice plus the situation your in probably is the reason for no such explanation, but then again)...you could probably make one up from the codex...maybe. Also, it doesn't completely break the ending, there were still choices, and things still happened. For the most part though, it was sci-fi, the crucible, the citadel, what they are and what they can do when merged is explained, for the most part...and let it be clear that me not wanting an explanation doesn't apply to everything, I thought an explanation for why the energy is dispersed that way is trivial and easily solved by assuming "the catalyst does it."

Modifié par ham89, 16 août 2012 - 09:07 .

[BlueStorm83]

ham89 wrote...

I guess the lack of an explanation is ample reason to be a little confused and somewhat disappointed, for you at least. I'm fine without an explanation, although one could have been provided, which is weird because the Extended Cut was supposed to explain EVERYTHING right? I don't have that much of a problem with it because I'm sure there is some sort of Mass Effect'esque explanation for it, but just not provided(the catalyst rushing you to pick a choice plus the situation your in probably is the reason for no such explanation, but then again)...you could probably make one up from the codex...maybe. Also, it doesn't completely break the ending, there were still choices, and things still happened. For the most part though, it was sci-fi, the crucible, the citadel, what they are and what they can do when merged is explained, for the most part...and let it be clear that me not wanting an explanation doesn't apply to everything, I thought an explanation for why the energy is dispersed that way is trivial and easily solved by assuming "the catalyst does it."

Oh, I'm not arguing that.  The ending isn't BROKEN anymore.  It's just kinda from out of nowhere, rushed, predicated by the false logic of the enemy, and unsatisfying.  Buying into anything that the Catalyst says is, to me and my Shepard at the very least, giving up.  It's saying, "Well, I guess you were right all along."  Destroying Synthetics acquiesces to the reasons why he came up with the Cycles, Controlling the Reapers is really just what he's doing right now, and Synthesis... that's Husk and Cannibal territory.  There's no way that I'd pick any of the 3.  Now that I'm allowed to refuse, the ending isn't broken.  But it's still a huge disappointment.

[Captain McBuck]

I posted this in the destroy thread but figured I'd put these here as it relates to the EC, See the main problem I had with Synthisis is that it rubs me the wrong way and not just because of the Talking Glowlamp. I kept going back to thinking 'bout Mordin and ME2 with what he said about the Collectors,

Mordin:
"Early stages simular to indoctrination, captured Protheons lost  intelegence over several cloned generations, Cybernetic augmentation wide spread, as Protheons failed, Reaper implants added tech to compensate. Mental capacity almost gone, Replaced by overworked sensor imput nodes transfering data to masters"

Shep: "Is there anything we can do to help them?"

Mordin "No!, No glands replaced by Tech!. No Digestive system replaced by tech!. No...soul,replaced by tech. whatever they were gone, forever, understand now? No art no culture, closer to husks than slaves. Tools for reapers. Protheons dead... Collectors final insult. Must be destroyed"

Shep: "What is it about the collectors modifactions which bothers you so much Mordin?"

Mordin: "Disrupts Socio-Technological balance, All scientific advancement due to intelegence overcoming - compensating for limitations. can't carry a load so invent a wheel, can't catch food, so invent spear.limitations. no limitations no advancement! no Advancement culture stagnates. works in reverse too. advancment before culture is ready, disasterous. like giving nuclear weapons to cave men"

Mordin "Saw it with Krogan, Our fault.Krogan could have evolved alone, learnt to use new tech, responsably.instead Salarians came. used Krogan as blunt instrument.Short sighted. Foolish. Disasterous"

sure sounds like synthisis dosn't it? and of course there is Operation Overlord and poor David Archer who was tortured by his own brother which almost unleashed a AI/Human Hybrid, as a form of  Synthisis.in fact Synthsis has been portrayed repeatadly as very bad and insane until the last 10 minutes where Mac and Casey decide its the "Best Ending"

Modifié par Captain McBuck, 16 août 2012 - 11:32 .

[BlueStorm83]

Captain McBuck wrote...

I posted this in the destroy thread but figured I'd put these here as it relates to the EC, See the main problem I had with Synthisis is that it rubs me the wrong way and not just because of the Talking Glowlamp. I kept going back to thinking 'bout Mordin and ME2 with what he said about the Collectors,

Mordin:
"Early stages simular to indoctrination, captured Protheons lost  intelegence over several cloned generations, Cybernetic augmentation wide spread, as Protheons failed, Reaper implants added tech to compensate. Mental capacity almost gone, Replaced by overworked sensor imput nodes transfering data to masters"

Shep: "Is there anything we can do to help them?"

Mordin "No!, No glands replaced by Tech!. No Digestive system replaced by tech!. No...soul,replaced by tech. whatever they were gone, forever, understand now? No art no culture, closer to husks than slaves. Tools for reapers. Protheons dead... Collectors final insult. Must be destroyed"

Shep: "What is it about the collectors modifactions which bothers you so much Mordin?"

Mordin: "Disrupts Socio-Technological balance, All scientific advancement due to intelegence overcoming - compensating for limitations. can't carry a load so invent a wheel, can't catch food, so invent spear.limitations. no limitations no advancement! no Advancement culture stagnates. works in reverse too. advancment before culture is ready, disasterous. like giving nuclear weapons to cave men"

Mordin "Saw it with Krogan, Our fault.Krogan could have evolved alone, learnt to use new tech, responsably.instead Salarians came. used Krogan as blunt instrument.Short sighted. Foolish. Disasterous"

sure sounds like synthisis dosn't it? and of course there is Operation Overlord and poor David Archer who was tortured by his own brother which almost unleashed a AI/Human Hybrid, as a form of  Synthisis.in fact Synthsis has been portrayed repeatadly as very bad and insane until the last 10 minutes where Mac and Casey decide its the "Best Ending"

---  THIS.  Exactly THIS.  Once again, Mordin Solus proves just why he's simply the best character in anything, ever.  Keep quoting this and posting it in places where people will benefit from reading it.  Also, email it t Mac and Casey.  And link to it on their blogs and shizzle.

[Arlyon]

ham89 wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I keep thinking about this for awhile, why the hell does Shepard keep walking towards the tube while s/he keeps shooting it

Art and a lot of drinking.

because they were just fine shooting from the area they started

here is the real head scratcher how did shephard kill all synthetics by simply shooting at a tube thts majic until valid explanation is givin

I think shooting the Tube causes the Crucible and Citadel to overload, but that doesn't explain how it kills all synthetics, thats Bioware lol

exactly its majic and it shouldn't be accepted real sci fi's have to grit write endings tht still at times dissapoint fans but they would still accept it I don't see how anyone accepted this crap it's tasteless

 

Yes in fact we can only assume how the energy is dispersed, so what I like to assume is the catalyst can change what the energy targets and what it can do depending on what Shepard does. So if Shepard destroys the tube, it indeed overloads the energy that is specifically targeted to synthetics by the catalyst, and so on to the other 2 endings. Frankly, saying it's magic is saying every sci-fi game is magic, in which case you dislike all sci-fi things, because if you think about it everything is explained, yes, but it defies the laws of physics in the real world, and you never fully understand it (like Halo's slipspace or Star Treks hyper space.) So, whatever explanation Bioware would come up with to explain the disperse of energy, it would still be "magic" (Technology we don't understand) But that's the point of sci-fi! Crazy technology, and made up elements that can defie physics! (element zero) I think Mass Effect qualifies as "real sci-fi" too. 

I loke the way you think "it would still be "magic" (Technology we don't understand)..."
 it is so true

[KoorahUK]

Captain McBuck wrote...

I posted this in the destroy thread but figured I'd put these here as it relates to the EC, See the main problem I had with Synthisis is that it rubs me the wrong way and not just because of the Talking Glowlamp. I kept going back to thinking 'bout Mordin and ME2 with what he said about the Collectors,

Mordin:
"Early stages simular to indoctrination, captured Protheons lost  intelegence over several cloned generations, Cybernetic augmentation wide spread, as Protheons failed, Reaper implants added tech to compensate. Mental capacity almost gone, Replaced by overworked sensor imput nodes transfering data to masters"

Shep: "Is there anything we can do to help them?"

Mordin "No!, No glands replaced by Tech!. No Digestive system replaced by tech!. No...soul,replaced by tech. whatever they were gone, forever, understand now? No art no culture, closer to husks than slaves. Tools for reapers. Protheons dead... Collectors final insult. Must be destroyed"

Shep: "What is it about the collectors modifactions which bothers you so much Mordin?"

Mordin: "Disrupts Socio-Technological balance, All scientific advancement due to intelegence overcoming - compensating for limitations. can't carry a load so invent a wheel, can't catch food, so invent spear.limitations. no limitations no advancement! no Advancement culture stagnates. works in reverse too. advancment before culture is ready, disasterous. like giving nuclear weapons to cave men"

Mordin "Saw it with Krogan, Our fault.Krogan could have evolved alone, learnt to use new tech, responsably.instead Salarians came. used Krogan as blunt instrument.Short sighted. Foolish. Disasterous"

sure sounds like synthisis dosn't it? and of course there is Operation Overlord and poor David Archer who was tortured by his own brother which almost unleashed a AI/Human Hybrid, as a form of  Synthisis.in fact Synthsis has been portrayed repeatadly as very bad and insane until the last 10 minutes where Mac and Casey decide its the "Best Ending"

Except Synthesis goes both ways - synthetics become partly organic, organic become partly synthetic. Thats a big difference to what happened to the Collectors, who were all that was left of the Protheans after the harvest. 

If the Cycle hadn't been stopped, in 50,000 years some scientist may be making exactly the same observations about Husks. Husks are not what Synthesis creates.

[KiganMatsuei]

Not in the same process, at least. But the Reaper-created Husks become docile because of synthesis.

The primary differences are the remaining free will (supposedly) and the appearances aren't so drastically altered. They still have this forced on them, whether they want it or not - and we know for a fact many in the universe do not want this sort of change.

Besides, Mordin has it right. Quite possibly the smartest character in any of the games.

[Captain McBuck]

KoorahUK wrote...
Except Synthesis goes both ways - synthetics become partly organic, organic become partly synthetic. Thats a big difference to what happened to the Collectors, who were all that was left of the Protheans after the harvest. 

If the Cycle hadn't been stopped, in 50,000 years some scientist may be making exactly the same observations about Husks. Husks are not what Synthesis creates.

But the Collectors had 50,000 years to degrade, the slides at the end show only a couple years/imediate aftermath of the Green Wave and even in Javik's flashback thats a full century or more after war with the reapers.. who's to say the Collectors wern't "Happier" in the early stages of conversion?. Fact is we don't know whaat Synthisis creates, it gives everyone bio-cybernetic implants like the colllectors (Synthetics and Organics), what happens whe people try to have children?  and we'd be doing it against everyones will - Organics and Synthetics. its Cultural Genocide. and even if we assume for the sake of argument this is a "good thing" and it all works as Starjar told us it would and dosn't backfire Mordin is still right in that it disrupts the Socio-Technological balance, like giving nukes to cave men. It worked for the Salarans short term, ended the Rachni wars but lead to the Krogan Rebellions directly.

Incidentally I'm not saying the other two options arn't bad either, it just rubs me wrong when Synthisis is pushed as the 'good ending' when its quite posabily the worst of the optons

Modifié par Captain McBuck, 17 août 2012 - 12:30 .

[KoorahUK]

Mordin had it right about the Collectors but thats not what Synthesis is. What the Reapers did to the Protheans to create the Collectors is closer to what Reapers did to Humans to create Husks. The Reapers did not change themselves with Organic properties, beyond creating new Reapers from the biological sludge of the harvested.

Synthesis is very different. Free will as you say - but on both sides. The Reapers no longer enslaved to the will of the Catalyst, chose to help the organics rebuild. They finally understood them , rather than what the catalyst's solution said they needed.

I'm not advocating Synthesis was 'right' I don't believe there really is a 'correct' choice, but I don;t accept that synthesis is what the Collectors suffered.

[KiganMatsuei]

Free Will is an assumption, as is this lasting peace brought on by understanding. I find it hard to believe everyone simply understood and accepted the Reapers after all they'd done. It's easier to believe that the Krogan went and had a "hug a Salarian in appreciation" day because they suddenly understood them.

Freedom of choice did not exist. I can't imagine David Archer, for example, wanting this. Or any of the people we met that were against any kind of implant.

[BlueStorm83]

KoorahUK wrote...

Except Synthesis goes both ways - synthetics become partly organic, organic become partly synthetic. Thats a big difference to what happened to the Collectors, who were all that was left of the Protheans after the harvest. 

If the Cycle hadn't been stopped, in 50,000 years some scientist may be making exactly the same observations about Husks. Husks are not what Synthesis creates.

Incorrect.  Listen to the new Catalyst Dialogue.  Synthesis now gives Synthetics complete KNOWLEDGE of what it is to be an Organic.  It does not claim to make them partially organic anymore.

[BlueStorm83]

--- To say that Synthesis is not what the Collectors suffered is an assumption. To say that Synthesis IS what the Collectors suffered is also an assumption.

However, historically, there as been exactly 1 attempt at any kind of blending Man and Machine beyond simple cybernetic implants or limb replacements that have NOT resulted in absolute abominable horrors. That was Shepard, and even that is simply using cybernetic technology to replace/repair damaged bones, organs, etc. etc. The Starboy says that they tried Synthesis before, and its results were less than desirable. We have seen many half organic, half synthetic forms of "life." They are Husks, Cannibals, Marauders, Brutes, Banshees, Ravagers, Harvesters, and Reaper Capital Ships. None of them are a preferable form of existence. None of them are even a TOLERABLE form of existence. Since Shepard can't see the Epilogue before he chooses, nor could be trust it even if he could, I can not think of any Shepard that would honestly choose Synthesis.

As far as the Reapers no longer being enslaved and choosing to help organics to rebuild, that is also an assumption. Suppose that the Reapers were still enslaved to the Catalyst. Suppose that everyone else was now also its slave, through Synthesis. The entirety of the Galaxy, all one hive mind. What would it do then? Rebuild. Life forms seek to make life for themselves, to spread, to dominate the area around them. Slideshows of a galaxy spanning Reaper Collective would be identical to the Sunshine and Rainbows of everyone getting along in a hippie commune of green energy.

What about EDI's epilogue, though? Well, Sovereign seemed to think that he was alive and free. So did Harbinger. They were DAMN sure they were at the top of the food chain. And then Starboy shows up and ****s all over that claim. For all we know, in the Epilogue, EDI is the same as them; ignorant to the fact that she's nothing but a slave.

[sdinc009]

Captain McBuck wrote...

I posted this in the destroy thread but figured I'd put these here as it relates to the EC, See the main problem I had with Synthisis is that it rubs me the wrong way and not just because of the Talking Glowlamp. I kept going back to thinking 'bout Mordin and ME2 with what he said about the Collectors,

Mordin:
"Early stages simular to indoctrination, captured Protheons lost  intelegence over several cloned generations, Cybernetic augmentation wide spread, as Protheons failed, Reaper implants added tech to compensate. Mental capacity almost gone, Replaced by overworked sensor imput nodes transfering data to masters"

Shep: "Is there anything we can do to help them?"

Mordin "No!, No glands replaced by Tech!. No Digestive system replaced by tech!. No...soul,replaced by tech. whatever they were gone, forever, understand now? No art no culture, closer to husks than slaves. Tools for reapers. Protheons dead... Collectors final insult. Must be destroyed"

Shep: "What is it about the collectors modifactions which bothers you so much Mordin?"

Mordin: "Disrupts Socio-Technological balance, All scientific advancement due to intelegence overcoming - compensating for limitations. can't carry a load so invent a wheel, can't catch food, so invent spear.limitations. no limitations no advancement! no Advancement culture stagnates. works in reverse too. advancment before culture is ready, disasterous. like giving nuclear weapons to cave men"

Mordin "Saw it with Krogan, Our fault.Krogan could have evolved alone, learnt to use new tech, responsably.instead Salarians came. used Krogan as blunt instrument.Short sighted. Foolish. Disasterous"

sure sounds like synthisis dosn't it? and of course there is Operation Overlord and poor David Archer who was tortured by his own brother which almost unleashed a AI/Human Hybrid, as a form of  Synthisis.in fact Synthsis has been portrayed repeatadly as very bad and insane until the last 10 minutes where Mac and Casey decide its the "Best Ending"

Very nice. Synthesis and Control both have been well established within the story as not options. The Reapers symbolize Synthesis in there very being and Cereberus wants to Control them. These endings completely ignore several important themes and plot lines within the story spaning all 3 games.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

In the event we can't have new ending DLC, I want DLC about Marauder Shields. Tell me how he managed to break away from the control of the StarBrat and how he tried valiantly to save us from the tragedy that was The Ending.

Maybe we could see Shields finding a universal translator.

Shields: Shepard, go back. There is nothing for you up there.
Shepard: You can talk? But you're a Reaper.
Shields: I was a Reaper, but I, like you, will sacrifice my life for a decent ending.
Shepard: What are you talking about? What is up there?
Shields: It's horrible. Some child hologram, barking orders, introduced at the very last minute in a three-game trilogy without any warning.
Shepard: A child? What is a child doing on the Citadel?
Shields: Don't ask. It will only make you angry and disappointed. Not only that, he's a self-important know-it-all who will treat you like you're an idiot even though you've been a visionary to all life, both organic and synthetic, since Eden Prime.
Shepard: What?
Shields: Let me explain. Wait. There is no time. Let me sum up. If you go up there, Glowboy is going to offer you three lousy choices and if you don't take one of them, he's going to have a big temper tantrum and everybody dies.
Shepard: You mean I fought Sovereign and Saren, defeated the Collectors and Kai Leng just so I could get forced into choices by some see-through kid I've never met.
Shields: Exactly.
Shepard: That's ridiculous.
Shields: I know. That's why I'm here.
Shepard: And what happens if I take one of his choices?
Shields: It will kind of be the last thing you do.
Shepard: Great. So what do you recommend?
Shields: Walk back up the hill and hang out with your buddies. Have a beer.
Shepard: What about Harbinger?
Shields: Don't worry. As long as you just hang out there, he won't shoot.
Shepard: You're kidding.
Shields: Nope.
Shepard: Well how do I save the galaxy then? I thought the Crucible was the solution.
Shields: Yeah. Space Boy wanted you to think that. It was the only way he gets a speaking part in this story.
Shepard: Is there another way? Another device?
Shields: Yes. There is.
Shepard: What is it?
Shields: It's called a Head Canon.
Shepard: Where do I get one?
Shields: You have it already. Just close your eyes and dream that the Reapers were defeated and everyone you saved lives.
Shepard: Why didn't they just tell me that from the start?
Shields: Because you wouldn't have believed it. Frankly, I still can't believe it. Who makes a game that way? But I digress.
Shepard: Thanks. Without you I would have gone up there.
Shields: I know. One more thing though.
Shepard: What is it?
Shields: That reporter on your ship works for people who say the StarBrat's endings are great. You should kick her off.
Shepard: Done. She was annoying anyway. Kind of a stalker. Always wanting to come up to my cabin.
Shields: I've seen better Cannibals.
Shepard: If you have the time, there's a beer in the Normandy with your name on it.
Shields: I appreciate it. I bet it tastes better than the ending.
THE END

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 17 août 2012 - 07:13 .