4048 réponses à ce sujet

[N7 Shadow Liara]

I love that! it's better than the crappy ending we have actually! good job!

[ham89]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

--- To say that Synthesis is not what the Collectors suffered is an assumption. To say that Synthesis IS what the Collectors suffered is also an assumption.

However, historically, there as been exactly 1 attempt at any kind of blending Man and Machine beyond simple cybernetic implants or limb replacements that have NOT resulted in absolute abominable horrors. That was Shepard, and even that is simply using cybernetic technology to replace/repair damaged bones, organs, etc. etc. The Starboy says that they tried Synthesis before, and its results were less than desirable. We have seen many half organic, half synthetic forms of "life." They are Husks, Cannibals, Marauders, Brutes, Banshees, Ravagers, Harvesters, and Reaper Capital Ships. None of them are a preferable form of existence. None of them are even a TOLERABLE form of existence. Since Shepard can't see the Epilogue before he chooses, nor could be trust it even if he could, I can not think of any Shepard that would honestly choose Synthesis.

As far as the Reapers no longer being enslaved and choosing to help organics to rebuild, that is also an assumption. Suppose that the Reapers were still enslaved to the Catalyst. Suppose that everyone else was now also its slave, through Synthesis. The entirety of the Galaxy, all one hive mind. What would it do then? Rebuild. Life forms seek to make life for themselves, to spread, to dominate the area around them. Slideshows of a galaxy spanning Reaper Collective would be identical to the Sunshine and Rainbows of everyone getting along in a hippie commune of green energy.

What about EDI's epilogue, though? Well, Sovereign seemed to think that he was alive and free. So did Harbinger. They were DAMN sure they were at the top of the food chain. And then Starboy shows up and ****s all over that claim. For all we know, in the Epilogue, EDI is the same as them; ignorant to the fact that she's nothing but a slave.

 

Reapers might actually be mainly synthetic, which means every reaper created had one thing programmed into it, harvest advanced civilizations. This organic sludge, or the collective intelligences of all organics harvested from when they started might not have a word in what the reapers do because the synthetic programming over rides it. In fact, the star child is actually a construct designed to solve the problem, he deemed harvesting the best solution, and I guess after all the intelligence he got from the other species, he didn't change his mind. The star child is the hive mind of the reapers, which means the reapers found that harvesting was best, and they just kept doing it. Now maybe the reapers didn't think the crucible was possible and so didn't try, or (after finding out that organics might be building the crucible, disregarded it because they were like "PHH, their inferior!) Remember, star child even admits "Organics are more resourceful than we thought."  Although he is the collective intelligence of all reapers, assuming reapers are like Geth, all reapers obtained the self-personality of being superior, and invincible against everything, even though they have the hive mind at their disposal.

[Alien Number Six]

I liked the expanded endings. Other than that I've nothing more to say on the matter.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Alien Number Six wrote...

I liked the expanded endings. Other than that I've nothing more to say on the matter.

Whenever I see a new account opened up within the last 24 hours, followed by a series of rah rah messages, I always think its a plant.  

Things must be even worse out there for ME3 than I hear whenever I walk into any game retailer location.

[Auintus]

The difficulty here is that many are actively fighting the endings, grasping any excuse as to why this or that is a horrible idea. Destroy...I disregard entirely. I liked Legion. I refuse to make his sacrifice worthless.
In the EC for Control, Shepard himself, or the VI that he created, is explicitly stated to be in control of the reapers, with all of Shepard's memories and motivations.
In synthesis, EDI says that most problems were solved and expressed hope for the future. These are directly stated in-game, everything else is an assumption made by players who want some excuse to hate on the ending. EDIT: In addition, the crucible is stated to use Shepard's makeup, which has been part organic and part synthetic from early in ME2, to impose Synthesis. Shepard's implants have proven nothing but beneficial.
The original ending was vague, yes, but the EC clarified that, and even gave the refuse option for those who decide the original three weren't good enough. I find the fact that it completely screws you over to be hilarious.

Modifié par Auintus, 17 août 2012 - 11:22 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Auintus wrote...

The difficulty here is that many are actively fighting the endings, grasping any excuse as to why this or that is a horrible idea. Destroy...I disregard entirely. I liked Legion. I refuse to make his sacrifice worthless.
In the EC for Control, Shepard himself, or the VI that he created, is explicitly stated to be in control of the reapers, with all of Shepard's memories and motivations.
In synthesis, EDI says that most problems were solved and expressed hope for the future. These are directly stated in-game, everything else is an assumption made by players who want some excuse to hate on the ending.
The original ending was vague, yes, but the EC clarified that, and even gave the refuse option for those who decide the original three weren't good enough. I find the fact that it completely screws you over to be hilarious.

I understand those people who want to Refuse.  Having Glowboy appear at the end of 120 plus hours of gameplay is ridiculous and giving him the finger has appeal.  But I choose Destroy since it was obviously designed to be the hardest ending to achieve.  It required the highest EMS to get the "breath" scene.  Also, I don't believe either EDI or the Geth die in Destroy.  That's because I think the Star Child is lying to try to get Shepard not to choose Destroy.  He's been trying to get the Illusive Man to buy Control and Saren to buy Synthesis for whole trilogy.  I'm sure he'd like you to pick either. 

But the way I interpret the ending for Destroy is that:  the Kid is lying; you shoot the tube anyway; and everything between you being knocked unconscious when the tube explodes to when you breathe and wake up (THE END) takes place in Shepard's mind as he imagines the consequences of what would happen if StarBrat's lies were true.  But why would you believe the Reaper kid?  So in my interpretation of Destroy, EDI and the Geth live, Shepard survives and the Reapers die.

After all, these crappy endings are supposed to be "Art."  And one person's interpretation of Art is as good as another's.  That's why it's oh so artsy.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 17 août 2012 - 11:10 .

[Iakus]

Auintus wrote...

The difficulty here is that many are actively fighting the endings, grasping any excuse as to why this or that is a horrible idea. Destroy...I disregard entirely. I liked Legion. I refuse to make his sacrifice worthless.
In the EC for Control, Shepard himself, or the VI that he created, is explicitly stated to be in control of the reapers, with all of Shepard's memories and motivations.
In synthesis, EDI says that most problems were solved and expressed hope for the future. These are directly stated in-game, everything else is an assumption made by players who want some excuse to hate on the ending.
The original ending was vague, yes, but the EC clarified that, and even gave the refuse option for those who decide the original three weren't good enough. I find the fact that it completely screws you over to be hilarious.

EC didn't clarify Shepard's survival.  That's every bit as vague and unsatisfying as it was beefore.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

iakus wrote...

Auintus wrote...

The difficulty here is that many are actively fighting the endings, grasping any excuse as to why this or that is a horrible idea. Destroy...I disregard entirely. I liked Legion. I refuse to make his sacrifice worthless.
In the EC for Control, Shepard himself, or the VI that he created, is explicitly stated to be in control of the reapers, with all of Shepard's memories and motivations.
In synthesis, EDI says that most problems were solved and expressed hope for the future. These are directly stated in-game, everything else is an assumption made by players who want some excuse to hate on the ending.
The original ending was vague, yes, but the EC clarified that, and even gave the refuse option for those who decide the original three weren't good enough. I find the fact that it completely screws you over to be hilarious.

EC didn't clarify Shepard's survival.  That's every bit as vague and unsatisfying as it was beefore.

Like a fool, I bought the Collector's Edition Player's Guide for Mass Effect 3.  In Bioware's Official Player's Guide, Bioware says about the High EMS Destroy Ending: "Shepard Lives."  That's a quote.  Believe me.  I paid for it.  Unless Bioware is lying to its players, that what the "breath scene" means.  The Destroy ending just rudely ends after the breath.  Stupid, yes.  Unclear, no.  Not if you believe Bioware's own Player's Guide.

[Auintus]

iakus wrote...

Auintus wrote...

The difficulty here is that many are actively fighting the endings, grasping any excuse as to why this or that is a horrible idea. Destroy...I disregard entirely. I liked Legion. I refuse to make his sacrifice worthless.
In the EC for Control, Shepard himself, or the VI that he created, is explicitly stated to be in control of the reapers, with all of Shepard's memories and motivations.
In synthesis, EDI says that most problems were solved and expressed hope for the future. These are directly stated in-game, everything else is an assumption made by players who want some excuse to hate on the ending.
The original ending was vague, yes, but the EC clarified that, and even gave the refuse option for those who decide the original three weren't good enough. I find the fact that it completely screws you over to be hilarious.

EC didn't clarify Shepard's survival.  That's every bit as vague and unsatisfying as it was beefore.

Like I said, I don't play Destroy, and Shepard's survival in Control is explicitly denied.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

No question. Shepard is dead in Control. He becomes Shreaper. At best.

I don't fault anyone being happy with the ending they chose, by the way. If you are happy with Control, I'm happy for you. I'm really unhappy that Bioware said "Shepard lives" in my Player's Guide (that was like 40 or 50 bucks by the way--hard cover, fancy art and you had to turn the book upside down to see the reveal about the "endings") and all I get to see is a breath. And I have to head canon the rest. I think it's a betrayal and a ripoff, frankly. If the Player's Guide had said, "You won't get to see what happens to Shepard after he Destroys the Reapers and 'lives,'" I would have passed on the game entirely (also Collector's Edition, by the way). I would have handed them back to my pals at Game Stop. There were plenty of people there who would have wanted them. I could have been happy stopping with ME2, where I had about 8 playthroughs. Here, I just can't replay the game at all.

But, my interpretation of Destroy is as I said. That is the way I deal with a really disappointing ending that, in my opinion, is a complete departure from the rest of the trilogy.

Modifié par PuppiesOfDeath2, 17 août 2012 - 11:41 .

[Iakus]

[quote]PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

EC didn't clarify Shepard's survival.  That's every bit as vague and unsatisfying as it was beefore.[/quote]

Like a fool, I bought the Collector's Edition Player's Guide for Mass Effect 3.  In Bioware's Official Player's Guide, Bioware says about the High EMS Destroy Ending: "Shepard Lives."  That's a quote.  Believe me.  I paid for it.  Unless Bioware is lying to its players, that what the "breath scene" means.  The Destroy ending just rudely ends after the breath.  Stupid, yes.  Unclear, no.  Not if you believe Bioware's own Player's Guide.

[/quote]

it's about as clear as the Normandy crashing on Planet Plothole in the original ending.  All sorts of "implications unpleasant" came from that until EC. 

Pity Bioware couldn't do the same for Shepard's fate.

[Auintus]

@PuppiesOfDeath2
1) I hate your name. Sorry, I have issues with making sure names are just right and your capitals dropped in the middle of everything took me forever.
2) Does the ending ruin the entire game? I didn't like the vague original ending, but I was still partway(Tuchanka, I think) through my second playthrough before EC was even announced.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

[quote]iakus wrote...

[quote]PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

EC didn't clarify Shepard's survival.  That's every bit as vague and unsatisfying as it was beefore.[/quote]

Like a fool, I bought the Collector's Edition Player's Guide for Mass Effect 3.  In Bioware's Official Player's Guide, Bioware says about the High EMS Destroy Ending: "Shepard Lives."  That's a quote.  Believe me.  I paid for it.  Unless Bioware is lying to its players, that what the "breath scene" means.  The Destroy ending just rudely ends after the breath.  Stupid, yes.  Unclear, no.  Not if you believe Bioware's own Player's Guide.

[/quote]

it's about as clear as the Normandy crashing on Planet Plothole in the original ending.  All sorts of "implications unpleasant" came from that until EC. 

Pity Bioware couldn't do the same for Shepard's fate.[/quote]

True that.  Well, they could have.  They just didn't.  And therein lies the betrayal.

"Planet Plothole" is a good one!

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Auintus wrote...

@PuppiesOfDeath2
1) I hate your name. Sorry, I have issues with making sure names are just right and your capitals dropped in the middle of everything took me forever.
2) Does the ending ruin the entire game? I didn't like the vague original ending, but I was still partway(Tuchanka, I think) through my second playthrough before EC was even announced.

Sorry about the name.  The "2" at the end isn't in my Xbox gamertag.  It is the result of an email address change that EA couldn't reconcile.  I won't bore you with the details.  Anyway, if I put spaces in the gamertag, it would have been too long.  When I play Multiplayer, people consistently love my gamertag.  Even the EA customer support guys love it.  But it isn't easy to type on the forums, I'll admit.  ("Hate" seems a bit strong though.)

The ending ruins the replayability of the game for me.  I don't feel a sense of purpose or accomplishment like I did in either ME1 or ME2.  In each one, you vanquished the enemy and saved your friends and lived to tell the tale.  You have to admit, ME3's ending is completely different.  If you thought you were getting the same end-game experience as the two prior games, you were wrong.  I feel irritated by these endings and very unsatisfied by playing them.  So that doesn't make me want to invest the time in replaying the single player game.  At all.  I won't buy single player DLC unless the Destroy ending gets a facelift.

I still enjoy multiplayer though.  Much more than I anticipated that I would.  I just think about that as a shooting gallery.  But the folks I play with are funny and we have a good time with it.

[Auintus]

@PuppiesOfDeath2
I think "dislike" is just pretty-talk. "Hate" is quicker, too. Also, I just learned Copy/Paste.

I understand the sentiment. If you're gonna play it, play it all the way through. But ME3 was stated to be the end of Shepard's story. Heroes die. It happens rather frequently. It's realistic. Shepard could die in ME2, right?
From what I've seen of Destroy, it could be done better, but how? Any suggestions? I hate complaining without solutions.

I like multiplayer. Shame I don't have a microphone though.

EDIT: There are still soldiers on Earth, right? Someone maybe finds Shepard, drags his carcass(not literally) back to a base, and contacts the Normandy? Reassure with the crew and have a few words with your LI. Maybe a special spot in the ending slideshow. I might play destroy for that.

Modifié par Auintus, 18 août 2012 - 12:20 .

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Auintus wrote...

@PuppiesOfDeath2
I think "dislike" is just pretty-talk. "Hate" is quicker, too. Also, I just learned Copy/Paste.

I understand the sentiment. If you're gonna play it, play it all the way through. But ME3 was stated to be the end of Shepard's story. Heroes die. It happens rather frequently. It's realistic. Shepard could die in ME2, right?
From what I've seen of Destroy, it could be done better, but how? Any suggestions? I hate complaining without solutions.

I like multiplayer. Shame I don't have a microphone though.

Microphone makes Multiplayer much better.  Very helpful on Gold.  Plus, my player friends are funny.  So I'm glad there are microphones.

Sure heros die.  But that isn't this trilogy.  And Bioware has an ending where "Shepard lives."  If you going to have an ending where the hero lives, do it justice.

So each of the other endings show epilogue scenes.  In Destroy with High EMS, show Shepard being pulled from the pile by Garrus.  Garrus can make some snarky comment about how they are now even and that Shepard now looks as ugly as he does.  You could see him in the Med Bay recovering.  A visit from Joker and a private chat with his LI.  Maybe a visit from Hackett and a chat about Anderson and his sacrifice.  Some remark about the Illusive Man being indoctrinated and the dangers of technology you don't fully understand.

Anything other than a rubble pile would pretty much work for me.  I don't need to see him on a beach chair next to Zaeed, although that would be funny.  Or getting some medal from the Council.  Just a little scene to show him after he survives.  If Bioware wants to clarify that the Geth and EDI are really gone, have that addressed in the talk with Hackett.  Shepard would likely say that the Reapers couldn't be trusted.  Hackett could agree and say their sacrifice won't be forgotten.  Tali could realize how significant the loss of the Geth was, and how she can't believe she ever thought about them the way she did. 

There is a lot that could be done, but Bioware wouldn't have to do that much to make me happy.  Stuck under a rock pile isn't making it though.

[Iakus]

Auintus wrote...

@PuppiesOfDeath2
I think "dislike" is just pretty-talk. "Hate" is quicker, too. Also, I just learned Copy/Paste.

I understand the sentiment. If you're gonna play it, play it all the way through. But ME3 was stated to be the end of Shepard's story. Heroes die. It happens rather frequently. It's realistic. Shepard could die in ME2, right?
From what I've seen of Destroy, it could be done better, but how? Any suggestions? I hate complaining without solutions.

I like multiplayer. Shame I don't have a microphone though.

First,. this is a video game, not reality.  I don't mind the hero's death being a posibility.  But making it inevitable is...not entertaining to say the least.  Here it's virtually unavoidable.  It takes a particular ending and a very thorough playthrough to avoid (prior to EC, it was outright impossible to get purely through single player).  Nothing Shepard actually does affects it.

Compare to DAO where the Warden's death is a voluntary sacrifice on your part.  You can make other chocies to avoid it.

What could have been done better?  Simple, provide more endings where death is avoidable.  And make it less ambiguous when it does happen.  Barring that, at least make it clear that Shepard did in fact survive the Destroy+ ending.  People have sugested a reunion scene with Shepard and the LI and/or the Normandy crew.  While I find that ideal, it's not strictly necessary.  Just make SHepard's survival more uplifting.

Compare the rubble scene at the end of ME1 to the breath scene in ME3.  One is full of hope, triumph, and optimism.  The other is confusing and distressing. 

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

iakus wrote...

Auintus wrote...

@PuppiesOfDeath2
I think "dislike" is just pretty-talk. "Hate" is quicker, too. Also, I just learned Copy/Paste.

I understand the sentiment. If you're gonna play it, play it all the way through. But ME3 was stated to be the end of Shepard's story. Heroes die. It happens rather frequently. It's realistic. Shepard could die in ME2, right?
From what I've seen of Destroy, it could be done better, but how? Any suggestions? I hate complaining without solutions.

I like multiplayer. Shame I don't have a microphone though.

First,. this is a video game, not reality.  I don't mind the hero's death being a posibility.  But making it inevitable is...not entertaining to say the least.  Here it's virtually unavoidable.  It takes a particular ending and a very thorough playthrough to avoid (prior to EC, it was outright impossible to get purely through single player).  Nothing Shepard actually does affects it.

Compare to DAO where the Warden's death is a voluntary sacrifice on your part.  You can make other chocies to avoid it.

What could have been done better?  Simple, provide more endings where death is avoidable.  And make it less ambiguous when it does happen.  Barring that, at least make it clear that Shepard did in fact survive the Destroy+ ending.  People have sugested a reunion scene with Shepard and the LI and/or the Normandy crew.  While I find that ideal, it's not strictly necessary.  Just make SHepard's survival more uplifting.

Compare the rubble scene at the end of ME1 to the breath scene in ME3.  One is full of hope, triumph, and optimism.  The other is confusing and distressing. 

Yes.  And I played a lot of multiplayer to get the Destroy + ending.  Before I even thought about heading for Earth, I promoted a dozen characters from Multiplayer and made sure I had 100% readiness.  Imagine my surprise with what I got in return.  Plus, I did every side mission there was (I had the Player's Guide after all).  That's one of my problems with replayability.  None of that matters.  The ending still disappoints.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Auintus wrote...

@PuppiesOfDeath2
I think "dislike" is just pretty-talk. "Hate" is quicker, too. Also, I just learned Copy/Paste.

I understand the sentiment. If you're gonna play it, play it all the way through. But ME3 was stated to be the end of Shepard's story. Heroes die. It happens rather frequently. It's realistic. Shepard could die in ME2, right?
From what I've seen of Destroy, it could be done better, but how? Any suggestions? I hate complaining without solutions.

I like multiplayer. Shame I don't have a microphone though.

EDIT: There are still soldiers on Earth, right? Someone maybe finds Shepard, drags his carcass(not literally) back to a base, and contacts the Normandy? Reassure with the crew and have a few words with your LI. Maybe a special spot in the ending slideshow. I might play destroy for that.

Yes.  Really something like that.  Something that shows Shepard getting dragged out of the rocks.   A little conversation with the Normandy crew or Hackett.  Just something.

[Iakus]

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Yes.  And I played a lot of multiplayer to get the Destroy + ending.  Before I even thought about heading for Earth, I promoted a dozen characters from Multiplayer and made sure I had 100% readiness.  Imagine my surprise with what I got in return.  Plus, I did every side mission there was (I had the Player's Guide after all).  That's one of my problems with replayability.  None of that matters.  The ending still disappoints.

I did multiplayer as well.  And I dislike multiplayer (I've only promoted eight characters, and rarely went above Bronze, never to Gold)  After EC, I never touched MP again. 

So the breath scene rang especially hollow with me...

[Iakus]

Auintus wrote...

EDIT: There are still soldiers on Earth, right? Someone maybe finds Shepard, drags his carcass(not literally) back to a base, and contacts the Normandy? Reassure with the crew and have a few words with your LI. Maybe a special spot in the ending slideshow. I might play destroy for that.

I would love to have a scene like that.  Or heck, skip that and just show the Normandy receiving the message during the memorial scene.  Nothing complicated.

But what we end up having, after everything we have to do and sacrifice  to get to that point, is a crushing disappointment.

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

iakus wrote...

PuppiesOfDeath2 wrote...

Yes.  And I played a lot of multiplayer to get the Destroy + ending.  Before I even thought about heading for Earth, I promoted a dozen characters from Multiplayer and made sure I had 100% readiness.  Imagine my surprise with what I got in return.  Plus, I did every side mission there was (I had the Player's Guide after all).  That's one of my problems with replayability.  None of that matters.  The ending still disappoints.

I did multiplayer as well.  And I dislike multiplayer (I've only promoted eight characters, and rarely went above Bronze, never to Gold)  After EC, I never touched MP again. 

So the breath scene rang especially hollow with me...

I completely get that.  If it weren't for the fact that I like playing with some other players, I might feel that way.  I really don't think about the single player game at all when I play multiplayer.  It 's just a shooter.  And I don't promote players anymore.  I am at Level 20 in every class.  So there is no need for me to increase my N7 rating.  And there is no reason to promote characters.  Because the single player game impact doesn't matter at all.

[Auintus]

You've changed my mind. That's an accomplishment.
Points earned: 1)Hero's death should not be an inevitability. 2)"Breath" scene doesn't count.
Points not earned: 1)Video games are best with a touch of reality 2) Garrus was on the Normandy, which fled, so it couldn't be a crew member pulling Shepard out.
@iakus: See, there's a good name. Short and simple. To business, I play on PS3, never played ME1

[Iakus]

Auintus wrote...
Points not earned: 1)Video games are best with a touch of reality 2) Garrus was on the Normandy, which fled, so it couldn't be a crew member pulling Shepard out.
@iakus: See, there's a good name. Short and simple. To business, I play on PS3, never played ME1

A touch of reality is good.  But where a pinch of salt can add flavoring, emptying an entire shaker is a lot less pleasant

Even having C-Sec or Alliance agents pulling SHepard out would be great.  Especially if they appeared to be taking orders from Hackett or Bailey.

You never played, ME1?  I feel for you!    Go to youtube and look up ending sequences to Mass Effect.  Bioware should have cribbed shamelessly from it for "Shepard Lives" in ME3

[PuppiesOfDeath2]

Well, you're point regarding Garrus is well taken. If a soldier on Earth pulls him out, that's fine with me. I don't require "reality" either. In fact, the best part of ME1 and ME2 is that you got rewarded for a well-played game. What makes ME3 unreplayable, is that I don't see any real performance-based difference in the endings based on how well you play, particularly if you scoured the galaxy for war assets. Games should reward players with high scores. Thus my point about the Destroy Plus ending requiring the highest EMS. You should get something for it.

As I said, I don't need that much. The communication from Earth you mentioned. Something in a slide show. That would work for me.