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[Killdren88]

https://encrypted-tb...2ncd3Hi8oM0rBhY

Modifié par Killdren88, 20 août 2012 - 07:41 .

[Stella-Arc]

Posted originally in a different thread but is relavent to this one as well:

I keep hoping for that as well as winning conventionally. For three games I wanted to destroy the Reapers and even more after listening to the Starbrat. I cannot sympathize with them just because they were looking to bring "balance" between organics and synthetics. It's not their call. It's ours. If a Leviathan does exist, I want to kick his ass for creating the idiotic AI who came up with the solution to the problem his people (the Leviathans) gave it to solve. After all the trouble I went to to prove the Starbrats wrong about peace between organics and synthetics (Geth/Quarians/EDI), I have to sacrifice them...because that's war? Bull****! It pretty much tells us that what we did does not matter. So if that's the case then more than 50% of my companions in ME2 should have died. But I didn't let them because I busted my ass to make sure they live. So I was awarded for my efforts and was happy that they assisted in ME3. So why can't I save them (the Geth/EDI) with High EMS and War Assests that I got from playing every N7 Mission, Citadel Missions, Priority Missions, scanning planets and Multiplayer? It's like a slap in the face to Legion who gave his life as well as EDI who turned off her self-preservation program so she wouldn't have to choose between saving herself and those she cares about.

And if I got every War Asset and have a High Enough EMS, I believe I deserve to see my Shepard be pulled out of the rubble as well. A second of a breathing scene after all I went through does not do it justice.

My final thoughts on the EC choices:

Control = Too dangerous because someone could come along and take control of the Reapers (the Reapers are too powerful and dangerous to be controlled by anyone, Synthetic or Organic)

Synthesis = What the Starbrat wants (a creepy utopia)

Destroy = You have to sacrifice the Geth and EDI which shows the Starbrat wins anyway before being destroyed even though you proved his logic wrong if there was peace between the Geth/Quarians (like a big "**** you!" to the player before being destroyed)

Refuse = lol Screwed a million times (I wish I could have seen everyone fighting to the death but alas it wasn't meant to be)

So overall, the EC was "okay" but I still felt disapointed. Still grateful that Bioware took the time to do this so I can't complain too much...

Modifié par Stella-Arc, 20 août 2012 - 08:27 .

[Shepard108278]

Canned Bullets wrote...

I liked the new endings, I kind of wish that in the Destroy ending when Shepard survives that it shows his crew discovering his body. Also I wish they went with actual cutscenes instead of a slideshow. Then again they had time and budget constraints.

Same but I think most of us have given up coming here too much hate.

[Irku]

I'm not sure if this has come up yet so I'll just ask here.

In the new 'fourth' ending in the extended cut: Shepard refuses all choices and we loss. End of story. However Javik survived into this cycle so what are the odds that shepard did the same thing and was put in cyro until the next cycle, along with Laira's becon?

[Tocquevillain]

ZacTB wrote...

This has probably been asked loads before but when Harbinger said "Reapers are your salvation through destruction" does this kind of reference the whole point of the Reapers in which they are destroying races so that organic life can actually continue? So they are saving them by destroying them, hence 'salvation through destruction'?

Yes.

[BlueStorm83]

Irku wrote...

I'm not sure if this has come up yet so I'll just ask here.

In the new 'fourth' ending in the extended cut: Shepard refuses all choices and we loss. End of story. However Javik survived into this cycle so what are the odds that shepard did the same thing and was put in cyro until the next cycle, along with Laira's becon?

---  I don't see any hope for Shepard getting off of the Citadel there, but it would have been nice to, in the Refuse Ending, at least get a scene of Liara being thawed out in a future cycle, and lead the fight against the Reapers.  If even ONE person from my squad survived to see the end of the Reapers, I'd consider Refuse a win.

[Fiji Indian]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Irku wrote...

I'm not sure if this has come up yet so I'll just ask here.

In the new 'fourth' ending in the extended cut: Shepard refuses all choices and we loss. End of story. However Javik survived into this cycle so what are the odds that shepard did the same thing and was put in cyro until the next cycle, along with Laira's becon?

---  I don't see any hope for Shepard getting off of the Citadel there, but it would have been nice to, in the Refuse Ending, at least get a scene of Liara being thawed out in a future cycle, and lead the fight against the Reapers.  If even ONE person from my squad survived to see the end of the Reapers, I'd consider Refuse a win.

Then what? You build the crucible again and you're back to square-one.

[MacNasty]

Fiji Indian wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Irku wrote...

I'm not sure if this has come up yet so I'll just ask here.

In the new 'fourth' ending in the extended cut: Shepard refuses all choices and we loss. End of story. However Javik survived into this cycle so what are the odds that shepard did the same thing and was put in cyro until the next cycle, along with Laira's becon?

---  I don't see any hope for Shepard getting off of the Citadel there, but it would have been nice to, in the Refuse Ending, at least get a scene of Liara being thawed out in a future cycle, and lead the fight against the Reapers.  If even ONE person from my squad survived to see the end of the Reapers, I'd consider Refuse a win.

Then what? You build the crucible again and you're back to square-one.

Or you prepare the galaxy for the Reapers, and win conventionally.

[Ranger1337]

ZacTB wrote...

This has probably been asked loads before but when Harbinger said "Reapers are your salvation through destruction" does this kind of reference the whole point of the Reapers in which they are destroying races so that organic life can actually continue? So they are saving them by destroying them, hence 'salvation through destruction'?

No . Their point was that advanced civilisations capable of creating advanced AIs (aka. The Geth) should be destroyed so that the younger ones (The Yahg, The Vorcha, Klixen) could thrive . There is indeed logic in there . By harvesting both Oragnic and Synthetic life , there is never that point where the AIs become so advanced that a Galaxy Wide War was inevitable risking all the primitive organics . This is already seen when the Geth were able to occupy a large part of the Terminus Systems . What the Reapers (and the Catalysts) have failed to realize was that co-existence between the two are indeed possible (e.g: Quarian-Geth peace if you were able) .

[BlueStorm83]

Fiji Indian wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Irku wrote...

I'm not sure if this has come up yet so I'll just ask here.

In the new 'fourth' ending in the extended cut: Shepard refuses all choices and we loss. End of story. However Javik survived into this cycle so what are the odds that shepard did the same thing and was put in cyro until the next cycle, along with Laira's becon?

---  I don't see any hope for Shepard getting off of the Citadel there, but it would have been nice to, in the Refuse Ending, at least get a scene of Liara being thawed out in a future cycle, and lead the fight against the Reapers.  If even ONE person from my squad survived to see the end of the Reapers, I'd consider Refuse a win.

Then what? You build the crucible again and you're back to square-one.

With a record of how the Crucible is a gigantic failure... why would anyone build it again?

[sdinc009]

Irku wrote...

I'm not sure if this has come up yet so I'll just ask here.

In the new 'fourth' ending in the extended cut: Shepard refuses all choices and we loss. End of story. However Javik survived into this cycle so what are the odds that shepard did the same thing and was put in cyro until the next cycle, along with Laira's becon?

None, the odds are none. Ideas like this are creative, but they are  nothing more than speculations, assumptions, and fanfiction used to address holes in the narrative. The rule is, when you encounter a story structure and genre like ME 3 is that "if it is not addressed in the narrative, it did not happen". We can all imagine what could be all day, but the cold truth is that if the narrative does not address it, then it simply did not happen. What you see, is in fact, what you're given.

[Joe Neutrino]

Due the quality of 99% of the Mass Effect series I had a great deal of emotional investment in it. Therefore the disgusting failure of writing that was Mass Effect 3's ending gave me a literal feeling of sickness in my gut. It was as if a painter had come within one brush stroke of completing a historic masterpiece but had at that moment slipped and streaked an irrevocable blemish across the canvas. It was a mistake that was made all the more tragic by contrast of the brilliance of all that came before it. This fan-made alternate ending makes me feel a little better.

[Lionfranky]

I am still pissed at the fact that Sheperd did not mention Geth+Quarian conflict resolve to Starbrat.

[BlueStorm83]

Lionfranky wrote...

I am still pissed at the fact that Sheperd did not mention Geth+Quarian conflict resolve to Starbrat.

---  But if Shepard mentioned that, then his Strawman Argument would have 100% fallen apart and given people an actual WIN ending, as Starboy sees that Shepard is right, self-destructs the Reapers right then and there, and then simply goes away, since his PROGRAMMING WOULD BE FULFILLED.

So you see why they COULDN'T include that in the EC.  Because we're not allowed to win, we have to screw the universe.

[Lionfranky]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Lionfranky wrote...

I am still pissed at the fact that Sheperd did not mention Geth+Quarian conflict resolve to Starbrat.

---  But if Shepard mentioned that, then his Strawman Argument would have 100% fallen apart and given people an actual WIN ending, as Starboy sees that Shepard is right, self-destructs the Reapers right then and there, and then simply goes away, since his PROGRAMMING WOULD BE FULFILLED.

So you see why they COULDN'T include that in the EC.  Because we're not allowed to win, we have to screw the universe.

Then include Starbrat showing historical evidence that Sheperd's example is not good enough in hologram image.... Nope didn't happen. At least, that would've have made this half assed attempt at being artistic more plausible.
I wish Reaper was like "We are the ultimate race. We harvest advanced races to ascend." Should've remained like that instead of pseudo intellectual, messiah savior bullcrap.

[BlueStorm83]

Lionfranky wrote...

BlueStorm83 wrote...

Lionfranky wrote...

I am still pissed at the fact that Sheperd did not mention Geth+Quarian conflict resolve to Starbrat.

---  But if Shepard mentioned that, then his Strawman Argument would have 100% fallen apart and given people an actual WIN ending, as Starboy sees that Shepard is right, self-destructs the Reapers right then and there, and then simply goes away, since his PROGRAMMING WOULD BE FULFILLED.

So you see why they COULDN'T include that in the EC.  Because we're not allowed to win, we have to screw the universe.

Then include Starbrat showing historical evidence that Sheperd's example is not good enough in hologram image.... Nope didn't happen. At least, that would've have made this half assed attempt at being artistic more plausible.
I wish Reaper was like "We are the ultimate race. We harvest advanced races to ascend." Should've remained like that instead of pseudo intellectual, messiah savior bullcrap.

---  Honestly, why couldn't it simply be that they do this... because they feel like it?  I mean, some kids burn ants with a magnifying glass, because ants are NOTHING to them.  Maybe  this is how they reproduce, maybe this is how they feed, maybe this is how they entertain themselves.

Maybe Shepard should ask the Starboy, and he could just reply "You aren't even worth the time it would take to answer."  The ending pre EC was nonsense, the ending post EC is weak, badly written, and disappointing.

[Stella-Arc]

Lionfranky wrote...

I am still pissed at the fact that Sheperd did not mention Geth+Quarian conflict resolve to Starbrat.

That was what I was hoping to point out but nope. Didn't have a chance. 

[MoldySpore]

Late to the party here, as I only recently had time to play through the EC. I replayed the entire game on Insanity, reading all dialogue and watching all cut scenes (I played it through once on Hardcore when the game first came out, and decided not to revisit it until the EC was out), playing the game through as if I hadn't played it before. Here is my take (note: I purposely did NOT read about ANYTHING in the EC before I played. I have avoided these forums for months )

What I Liked:

1) The EC was good. It gave me more closure, gave me just enough information during the dialogue scenes with the catalyst to dispel most of my misgivings the first time around. The flow of that entire sequence seemed better, and the dialogue additions for exploring and getting more information were spot on and definitely helped quell some of the rage I still had from lack of information the first time around.

2) It shocked the hell out of me when I decided to turn around and shoot at the Catalyst, as I did the first time I played the game, except THIS time it actually DOES something. This DID NOT give me the ending I wanted, and I went back and explored all the endings again afterwards to pick the one I really wanted, but this was a nice surprise. Kudos to Bioware on that one, I was genuinely surprised they added that.

3) Epilogue scenes were great and I was happy to see at least stills from some of the places that my choices had saved. This was exactly what most people asked for, and Bioware delivered IMO, at least for this.

4) Your squad getting off Earth is explained. This was a huge deal for me the first time around. Pissed me off to no end how they somehow magically were in the ending scene. In the EC, they are evacuated if you have enough EMS, or die if you don't have enough. This is brilliant, and adds a different dynamic to that scene. I also happened to have my love interest in my party (Tali) and that scene definitely was the best addition to the game with the EC (not including the epilogue). It wasn't just slapped in. This made sense to me. And there was a real sense of sadness seeing Tali having to practically get dragged away from Shepard with a Reaper looming overhead. Another Kudos to Bioware IMO for this one.

What I Did NOT Like:

So really, my only problem with the ending now is still the biggest problem I had before the EC: There is still no true Paragon ending.

Yes, you can choose "Destroy" and Shepard "survives" (same cut scene of him taking a breath before) but the Geth and EDI and all synthetic life has to die too. This is NOT a Paragon decision. There needed to be another option where it would be the Destroy option, except synthetics didn't have to die. The whole thing with EDI, spending time saving the Geth, Legion's sacrifice, it is all for nothing with this ending.

People tell me the Paragon ending is Synthesis, but I don't think that is correct. Synthesis is more of the "other" paragon choice. It should have been the second option for people who were still mostly paragon, but who didn't want the "happy funtime" ending.

I already knew I wasn't getting the ending I wanted before I started playing again, as I knew they'd never create a whole new ending on par with the others already there. But I still wish there was an ending where everyone survived, the relay's survived, synthetics survived, and there was just peace. The end could have been a scene with your love interest in the future having a kid or living together, retired war heros living in paradise. I 'm not sure why this option wasn't included, and not sure why it couldn't have been thrown together and added for a 5th ending option.

Overall, though, I was happy with what was added. It was the ending that should have been there in the first place, then maybe if we had complained we would have gotten ending #5 and 6

[V-rcingetorix]

I find it odd that the Geth/Quarian resolution is not eeven obliquely referenced in the Destroy ending. The Quarians show no remorse (in the slideshow), Casper the Kidly Ghost "forgets" about them in his organic/synthetic monologue, Shepard avoids mentioning them at all...

On another tangent, still EC related; Shepard has far better strength, stamina and battle-experience than most individuals. Would it have killed him to take one speech class? Me2 was fine, ME1 was acceptable, ME3 was....meh.

[Iakus]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

I find it odd that the Geth/Quarian resolution is not eeven obliquely referenced in the Destroy ending. The Quarians show no remorse (in the slideshow), Casper the Kidly Ghost "forgets" about them in his organic/synthetic monologue, Shepard avoids mentioning them at all...

On another tangent, still EC related; Shepard has far better strength, stamina and battle-experience than most individuals. Would it have killed him to take one speech class? Me2 was fine, ME1 was acceptable, ME3 was....meh.

The geth got royally shafted by the Destroy ending. 

Or as other might put it "They got Thaned"

But for Shepard, I kinda liked his final speech to the squad.  The paragon version at least.

But the line "But take heart, look around you.  You are not in this fight alone" was bitterly ironic.  Because in the end, Shepard was alone.  Shepard reached the Citadel alone.  Faced the Catalyst alone.  And in the end, died alone.

[Jadebaby]

iakus wrote...

V-rcingetorix wrote...

I find it odd that the Geth/Quarian resolution is not eeven obliquely referenced in the Destroy ending. The Quarians show no remorse (in the slideshow), Casper the Kidly Ghost "forgets" about them in his organic/synthetic monologue, Shepard avoids mentioning them at all...

On another tangent, still EC related; Shepard has far better strength, stamina and battle-experience than most individuals. Would it have killed him to take one speech class? Me2 was fine, ME1 was acceptable, ME3 was....meh.

The geth got royally shafted by the Destroy ending. 

Or as other might put it "They got Thaned"

But for Shepard, I kinda liked his final speech to the squad.  The paragon version at least.

But the line "But take heart, look around you.  You are not in this fight alone" was bitterly ironic.  Because in the end, Shepard was alone.  Shepard reached the Citadel alone.  Faced the Catalyst alone.  And in the end, died alone.

qft

[3DandBeyond]

Ranger1337 wrote...

ZacTB wrote...

This has probably been asked loads before but when Harbinger said "Reapers are your salvation through destruction" does this kind of reference the whole point of the Reapers in which they are destroying races so that organic life can actually continue? So they are saving them by destroying them, hence 'salvation through destruction'?

No . Their point was that advanced civilisations capable of creating advanced AIs (aka. The Geth) should be destroyed so that the younger ones (The Yahg, The Vorcha, Klixen) could thrive . There is indeed logic in there . By harvesting both Oragnic and Synthetic life , there is never that point where the AIs become so advanced that a Galaxy Wide War was inevitable risking all the primitive organics . This is already seen when the Geth were able to occupy a large part of the Terminus Systems . What the Reapers (and the Catalysts) have failed to realize was that co-existence between the two are indeed possible (e.g: Quarian-Geth peace if you were able) .

Which basically assumes all synthetic life created will become crazed and want to kill their creators, which the geth did not do-the reverse actually happened.  War with the geth was not inevitable had the quarians opted for coexistence and had Sovereign not utilized the heretic geth to kill people.  In fact, the only crazed synthetics going about destroying organics (that they first built up by seeding tech throughout the galaxy) are the kid and his reapers.  They are a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The only reason the geth chased the quarians out was because the quarians were trying to annihilate them.  The reason the quarians were killing the geth was because the geth committed the sin of evolving-the quarians attacked first.

No matter what you decided to do about the geth/quarian conflict, you still solved it one way or another.  All the kid was ever programmed to do was to find balance and to create peace between the two.  If he one day decided to wipe out the whole galaxy that would still achieve his programmed goal.  He was never tasked with salvation.  And he was never tasked with the idea of ascension and preservation-he came up with that on his own.

[3DandBeyond]

V-rcingetorix wrote...

I find it odd that the Geth/Quarian resolution is not eeven obliquely referenced in the Destroy ending. The Quarians show no remorse (in the slideshow), Casper the Kidly Ghost "forgets" about them in his organic/synthetic monologue, Shepard avoids mentioning them at all...

On another tangent, still EC related; Shepard has far better strength, stamina and battle-experience than most individuals. Would it have killed him to take one speech class? Me2 was fine, ME1 was acceptable, ME3 was....meh.

Odd indeed.  In either this thread or the EC announcement thread that pre-dated this one, someone had commented that the endings did not reflect the choices made in the game.  Mike Gamble happened to reply to it and he said that they did reflect the choices.  I replied, asking about the geth/quarian issue which was the most relevant in all 3 games - relevant to what the kid's goal was and also to Destroy and that it was not addressed at all.  Shepard couldn't ask about it and it was ignored.  He never answered, because he had just moved on.

This to me remains one of the biggest holes in the endings-it also remains as one of the reasons why Shepard in the end is not the Shepard I played.  No way would that be ignored.  Shepard even discussed it with the dying reaper on Rannoch, but then forgets about it at the end?  No way.


I also had a response from someone in another thread where the person said that they figured the geth would have been ok at having been sacrificed for this destroy ending and I kind of had to laugh to myself.  Because I don't think so.  I think the geth would have found the whole situation illogical and would have asked why their very existence did not dispute what the kid was saying.  The idea that the very beings who are the best example of why the kid is crazy are the ones that if alive must be murdered to kill the reapers.

I did find something early on in ME1 that disputes doing this very thing.  Anderson and Shepard are talking about the costs of war.  It is one of many times Shepard can say that you don't kill some people over here to save others over there.  They were discussing how Saren operates.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 22 août 2012 - 10:20 .

[3DandBeyond]

BlueStorm83 wrote...

With a record of how the Crucible is a gigantic failure... why would anyone build it again?

My theory of what could have worked was actually having it be intact.  If you listen to the kid when he describes destroy, it is largely intact-that means it's not intact.  Either you failed to have enough assets to protect it or it is not finished.

I wish the BW would use some method to complete it so that it can discriminate and only destroy reapers.  Right now the kid links it not being intact to it not discriminating and damaging all tech and destroying synthetics.