4048 réponses à ce sujet

[wetnasty]

As I said in the other thread:

I'm just confused though. So in what ending does Shepard supposedly live? Is that only in the Destroy ending? Because, I did Synthesis and it was pretty much assumed that I got burnt to a crisp... For whatever reason I thought I would survive. Silly me.

[drkwaters]

Am I the only one who got a God Emperor of Dune feeling from the control (blue) ending?

[stysiaq]

here's the poll for people who wan't a spoiler-free opinion on the EC. If you are kind enough, please, vote.

Ms Merizan closed my thread in the spoiler-free section and linked this thread, in the spoiler section, as the proper thread to discuss things. This is kind of logic I can't comprehend.

Anyway, please, vote, if you didn't do it earlier (I'm not looking at the posts in this thread), and don't post spoilers in the comments.

[dragonator89]

FemmeShep wrote...

Endings are still awful. 

[tamperous]

JamieCOTC wrote...

wafflez wrote...

So... no new content at the cerberus base? At all?

I was wondering about this too. I'm at this point and if there's nothing new, I'd like to go ahead and get it over with.

Might need to load back at thot point just to lock in the revised EMS requirements.

[Nerevar-as]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Sia_Sinblade wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Sia_Sinblade wrote...

tamperous wrote...

Sia_Sinblade wrote...
I don't quite understand your logic here.

If you go into metagaming, it just so happens that we KNOW nothing is real. It's a game. No consequences are important, because there are no REAL consequences to your actions. All you are doing is selecting an option.

If you want to talk about consequences, it only makes sense in an in-game environment.

What in-game logic is extended to the real world?

I fear I have lost you.

Since BW wants to be critiqued as art, video game art isn't just the writing, graphics or soundtrack. Video game art is also the design of the challenge, the progression, and the resolution of the challenges or problems posed by the narrative.

Art is both a reflection of and instructive to the society created it. What does it say about gaming culture and game developers when they provide the user as the only choice for personal survival as an easter egg after comitting genocide? 
 
It's certainly not a society I'd like to be a part of.

Your mixing things to make your point. You either look at the game from an in-game perspective for purposes of story or you look at it from a metagame perspective where none of the ingame decisions reflect on life.

You as a player never commit genocide. You select an option with the full knowledge that nothing you do is real and with the sole intent of seeing a different ending. Something that can in no way shape or form be connected to an in-game decision where all those lives would actually matter.

I feel like the only thing you are doing is complaining that you didn't get to see the LI reunion in the ending you desired and now try to paint that as forcing you to commit genocide.

Let me give you another example: 

Kids see people on TV smoking: cartoon characters, cool people in movies. This makes kids think smoking is cool and want to smoke more. Seeing your hero do something makes it seem more acceptable. This is why they try to avoid having people smoke on TV as much as they did in the 50s, especially during programs developed for kids.

Now let's go one step further: say you watch a TV show where the hero uses torture on a captive, and it works: they get the coordinates of a ticking time bomb and are able to defuse it just in time. Watching programs like this has been shown to make people more likely to think that torture is acceptable: when they see a TV hero do it and get a good result, the part of their brain that processes stories associates torture with heroism and positive results.

Those of us who are concerned about the ending think it's troubling that genocide is being associated with heroism and positive results. I'd rather Shepard die in every ending than correlate survival with genocide.

But the destroy people want their fairy tale ending, so they insist that life must be correlated with genocide in this work of art... which some of us feel has unpleasant implications.

I'd much rather believe that people are clever enough to form their own opinions rather than "Oh look, Shepard blows up a race to have sex with his GF, so genocide must be cool!".

I mean...really? People think that way? If that's true it only makes me lament the state of society even more.

Just read these forums and you'll see. A lot of people who were previously on the fence about whether or not the Geth were people have decided to just assume they're not so they can kill them guilt-free. There are pages upon pages of posts stating that if someone allies with you in a war, it's OK to kill them all, because the act of allying with you in a war means they have agreed to die at your whim without consultation.

Either people who picked destroy had crazy views about alliances and genocide before this game was released, or they've been strongly influenced to be more accepting of the concept of genocide by the games. I'm not sure which is the case.

If they already thought genocide was OK before they played the game, they tend to feel that the ending shows that they're "smarter" and more "practical" than people who thought genocide was wrong. There have been many people who have said their Shepard can comfortably commit genocide without it "changing who they are." 

Other posters probably wouldn't have said "oh yeah, Genocide's fine!" before playing this game.., but if you ask them if they feel bad about killing the geth now, they'll say "nothing matters but my happiness!" 

Either society is more messed up than I'd like to believe, or this particular piece of art is changing people's ethical views on genocide in a very distrubing way.

It may just be that society was more messed up to start than I thought, and that Bioware is catering to the huge "genocide is cool!" demographic that I never knew existed.

This isn´t anything new. Remember the "how is killing the rachni queen renegade" posts?

But as someone posted, both green & blue also have really bad implications that the writers chose to just ignore
to make them more appealing. It´s a bit of the No Endor Holocaust trope but on a social scale.

[Samuel_Valkyrie]

Just finished my playthrough of EC, and here's my review/comments.

First of all: I'm ready to play the game again.

When all is said and done, that was the point of the Extended Cut. And, at least for me, it succeeded. I am willing to play ME3 again. As such, the EC is successful.

First, a few positive points: It's hard to fit new story-elements within an already existing story. You're faced with certain facts that you cannot go around, and that is also what the EC necessarily (due to programming) HAD to do. Which is fine. And, as such, they did a rather good job. Not perfect, but slightly over good enough.

Points of merit: Explaining how your squaddies leave you, with extra focus on the LI.; Joker not wanting to leave you, and having to be convinced by one of your crewmates to follow orders.

I also liked the slideshow showing the rebuilding, and the LI refusing to put up the plaque, but those aren't quite as impactful as the other two.

Now, as far as the actual choice is concerned: I liked that Bioware had the Star Child explain his position in more detail. I appreciate that. I also appreciate the wink in shooting the Star Child having no effect, except for him giving you the finger and harvesting your galaxy.

There are a few downsides and thinks that did not sit well with me. I still do not agree with the choices in general, and I still do not appreciate the fact that you cannot actually reason with the Star Child. But, those are more philosophical points than real gameplay or storytelling points, so I will let those slide.

[LolaLei]

Well... That was actually pretty ****ing cool!

The first time round I told the star child to go shove it up his arse... then the Reapers won and I was like "OMG NO WAY!" I'm really glad they gave us an option to see the Reapers win.

Second time I picked Destroy. I was sad about EDI but I wanted to see if Shep got reunited with her crew and love interest,,, obviously we don't see that happening, but since the Normandy gets off that random planet and my Shepard takes a gasp for air in the rubble, I'm just gonna go with theory that they do indeed reunite.

Haven't tried the new control or synethesis yet, but I will do later. I think I can live with these endings.

[Siven80]

Wow just watched the cutscene where you squadmates get picked up in front of the beam and Harbringer.....you know....when your supposed to be rushing to the beam before you get killed......and so after seeing you friends nearly get crushed you run back, call for the Normandy to fly to the beam where the big ass Reaper is blasting everything and so you ask joker to pick up your friends, then help them on, chat a bit ........ and while all this is going on the Reapers dont bother to shoot down the Normandy amd you've forgotten that you need to hurry to the beam.

Then of course why didnt the Normandy just drop you off there to start with or at least offer weapon support initially.

Christ....that scene is terrible. Who on earth thought that was a good change? probably mac and casey.

[ArchDuck]

tamperous wrote...

Yes but it was never they "artistic vision" for a solution to be reached by co-operation and trust between people that are different. Solutions can only come from some sort of Godlike intervention which involves smiting a race, replacing god with yourself (presumably more benevolant but human and ultimately corruptable), or manipulating everyone's genetics against their will.

Hudson, Walters, It's not that I don't understand your art, it's that I understand it too well and reject it completely. I intend to be rejecting it every time a new piece comes out for sale from now until the end of days.

^ This

The game endings go from a "F" to a "C-" at best.

Additionally I would like to point out that they (Bioware) still haven't lived up to the statements on which I bought the game on.

[Pr0digy87]

TullyAckland wrote...

Staarbux wrote...

Yep. All I really wanted was a scene where Shep's LI discovered she was alive. Really all I wanted. But I guess there were far fewer of us than I realised.

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:

• Shepard can now actually say goodbye to the love interest when they are split up at the conduit run.
• When Shepard sees flashbacks of important characters during the final decision, the flashbacks are now variable based on your playthrough – so your love interest can appear as one of the flashbacks, providing another moment of reflection between Shepard and that character.
• A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.
• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

Except when you have a ME2 LI. 

[Lokiwithrope]

I actually really liked it.

[Vox Draco]

tettenjager wrote...

thanks for this amazing ending bioware, props to you all!!

Now make me some epic SP content

Hmm...so after reading and spoiling myself about the EC I don't see any reason to download it...all I get is the same breathe-scene anyway and after this I have to use my headcanon? Alright. And the other options beside destroy have nothing that appeals to me in anyway, I rather stay ignorant about them..

After all, Epic Single player content? If this ending is Bioware's idea of "epic"? Oh no...

Sooo....I guess that's it for Mass Effect so far, at least for this year...still I have no intention of playing through ME3 again, or the series, or buying some of the DLC I am still missing or that might come later...

and why should I? All ME leads to is either headcanon or the twisted suicidal sacrifice brave new world space messiah nonsense Bioware seems so proud of...I don't care...I won't turn the galaxy into half-synthetics and not doom my shepard to "live" (*yuck*) as an AI...what a horrible, horrible fate for the saviour of the galaxy! I am speechless...death or "buried alive" in a computer/reaper? *shakeheads"

Sheapard still is in dire need for a better ending...or better devs...

[AchesOfDoom]

If Shepard reunites with LI...I will give Bioware full credtis (hehe). Seriously that would be awsome!

[ArchDuck]

AchesOfDoom wrote...

If Shepard reunites with LI...I will give Bioware full credtis (hehe). Seriously that would be awsome!

He/She doesn't. Sorry.

[AchesOfDoom]

ArchDuck wrote...

AchesOfDoom wrote...

If Shepard reunites with LI...I will give Bioware full credtis (hehe). Seriously that would be awsome!

He/She doesn't. Sorry.

That's just a big IF .

[Vox Draco]

AchesOfDoom wrote...

If Shepard reunites with LI...I will give Bioware full credtis (hehe). Seriously that would be awsome!

As it seems from the current information, this will literally only happen in your dreams aka "headcanon"

[LolaLei]

You know the epilogues for our crew? Did anyone get epilogues for all of the surviving crew members, including the ones from ME2? Cos I got Jacob and a couple of others but nothing is mentioned about the rest of them. I presume they're all still alive... right??

[AchesOfDoom]

TullyAckland wrote...
You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

[Capeo]

Siven80 wrote...

Wow just watched the cutscene where you squadmates get picked up in front of the beam and Harbringer.....you know....when your supposed to be rushing to the beam before you get killed......and so after seeing you friends nearly get crushed you run back, call for the Normandy to fly to the beam where the big ass Reaper is blasting everything and so you ask joker to pick up your friends, then help them on, chat a bit ........ and while all this is going on the Reapers dont bother to shoot down the Normandy amd you've forgotten that you need to hurry to the beam.

Then of course why didnt the Normandy just drop you off there to start with or at least offer weapon support initially.

Christ....that scene is terrible. Who on earth thought that was a good change? probably mac and casey.

I concur that that made no sense.  They wrote themselves into a hole they couldn't logically get out of.  You've already, in the series, taken all your friends on what was termed a Suicied Mission, literally, yet suddenly, when you have a chance to end it all, you're worried about people getting picked up?  And Harbinger just sits there and watches this all go on?

[Subject M]

WastedHeart wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

WastedHeart wrote...

I completely disagree that destroy only has one advantage over the others. In synthesis you have still forced the entire galaxy to become synthetic/organic hybrids and not everyone is going to be happy about that. And in control you have to presume that Shepard will be able to control the Reapers forevermore and that people will be happy with the Reapers still being around. Destroy comprehensively ends the threat without having to alter life as we know it in any way and, imo, is what most of the galaxy would have chosen given the option. The geth dying is awful, but that doesn't mean destroy doesn't have certain other advantages over the other ends that have nothing to do with Shepard living.

I don't disagree.

If you believe that picking Destroy is the best option because you don't want to do the hybrid thing or because you're afraid that Control won't end well, then you get to have your cake and eat it too: you get the ending you prefer and you get to live. Everything's coming up millhouse.

I only disagree when people claim that picking destroy is the only way to save the galaxy. It's firmly established that it isn't, so I get frustrated when people say "but trillions would have died if I didn't pick Destroy." That part isn't true.

If you picked Destroy knowing that it wasn't the only possible solution but feeling that the downsides of the other two possible choices were worse, I respect that completely. It's people who speak as if not choosing destory means the Reapers win that I take issue with.

Also, if you think that destroy is just as valid on its own merits as the other endings, then why should Shepard living be correlated with that particular ending? People keep saying that if Shepard lived in any ending other than destroy, that would be "bad," but if Destroy is fine on its own merits, why is that the case?

If I were to guess (because it can only be a guess), I would say it is because BioWare originally intended destroy to be the renegady organics first end. So then it makes sense that Shepard lives only in that one. But a lot of people (including me) don't pick it for that reason. Even if my Shep died in destroy, I'd still choose it because I simply can't quite stomach aspects of the other two. I believe in people having the freedom to make their own destinies and so does my canon Shep, and the majority of the galaxy's races (minus the geth) can do just that in the destroy end without the Reapers' shadow hanging over them anymore . Plus, my Shepard has no God complex so would find it difficult to believe she could control the Reapers for any period of time (nor would she want to) or to believe that she had any right to fundamentally alter all life in the galaxy.

Also, personally I'd have no problem with Shep living somehow in all three. But even if she did, I'd still pick destroy.

I understand, but isnt killing all synthetics, and thus robbing them of everything (not just their freedom) a more grave offence then adding a synthetic element to everyone?

[Geneaux486]

Love the addition of the refusal ending.

[LolaLei]

Vox Draco wrote...

AchesOfDoom wrote...

If Shepard reunites with LI...I will give Bioware full credtis (hehe). Seriously that would be awsome!

As it seems from the current information, this will literally only happen in your dreams aka "headcanon"

Well... they seemed to be leaving the planet so by that point I can only presume the relays were fixed... or at least some of them. Since Shepard lives in the destroy cutscene then I guess they'll all get reunited again... eventually.

[Bendigoe]

Question, in destroy why can't we just fix the Geth or EDI, the Starchild heavily implies that all technology destroyed by the burst...wave...thing can be repaired easily.
Synthetics are comprised of technology, the only thing they probably wouldn't retain is memories...?