4048 réponses à ce sujet

[Iucounou]

So some thoughts on the EC:

Fills in some gaps, but ultimately not worth the effort. Should have been in the game from the start.

On the other hand, they did give us an all new ending - refusal. There seems to be a certain irony about this, since it essentially means letting the Reapers toast the galaxy. That said, however, it feels like the best option overall and makes sense due to the fact that it involves precisely no space magic at all.

On the other hand, replaying a game series where the best ending you can hope for is utter failure seems like a non-starter to me.

Although I was loathe to believe it, it really does seem like Bioware are totally and utterly clueless as to why the endings they gave us are so terribly awful. Even Damon Lindeloff wouldn't have written something so poor.

Bioware, good luck selling single-player DLC for ME3. I think you're going to need it!

[Pr3ying M4nt15 360]

it amuses me that they redid the scene where the normandy gets hit, it's barely got any damage when it's on the planet now. Did anyone notice that? Compare it with the old footage. Looks like the Normandy may have actually sorta landed there itself. No wonder its able to take off again so easily.

[Subject M]

When I started ME3 I had 3 main goals that motivated my struggle through the series.
1. Survive and retire with my LI after the Reaper threat had been neutralized.
2. Save as many as possible.
3.Fight for self determination.

During the playthrough, these goals were reinforced.

Unfortunately, the end messed everything up, and not in a good way.
It will still be impossible to reach those goals, but at least some improvements where made.

Modifié par Subject M, 26 juin 2012 - 05:42 .

[Nerevar-as]

At least we got rid of the galaxy screwed ending. And the refuse one is better than the old ones even if it feels like a **** you from Hudson & Walters to the fans.

[Dalekjon]

The best analogy I can think of.... its like spraying Febreeze air effects on a pile of hot steaming ****... It masks the smell for a moment.. And you start to think, this isn't so bad... And then the Febreeze and the **** smell combine to make something wholly worse than it was before, making your eyes sting as you wish for death. At least now I can finally begin to mourn Bioware's death.

[Darth Death]

Geneaux486 wrote...

The Catalyst's plan is to make everyone into Reapers.  The Crucible is of organic design, as are the functions that it is capable of.  The Crucible is outside of the Catalyst's plans, and it's the best of a bad situation.

Not really, since the crucible is just an energy source (combined with the citadel & mass relays) in order to provide the final three decisions, only shep can make. The star child was aware of the crucible, but underestimated the efforts of the crucible organic creators input. The crucible was inside the star child's plans.  

[Jerjud45]

EC was definitely an improvement, most of that stuff should have been in the original game to begin with. The fact that it wasn't says a lot about how Bioware's quality has deteriorated. The scene with the Normandy evac was pretty bad though, it made no sense that Joker would show up that fast, and that the Normandy didn't get blasted. It was just a cheesy fill in to explain the jungle planet landing.

To me its just a band-aid on the still crappy endings. Its enough of a fix though that I can revisit the other 2 and maybe do some more playthroughs, where before I couldn't stand to think about the series anymore.

My opinion of Mass Effect 3 or Bioware hasn't changed. Still disappointed, and don't plan on making any more purchases from Bioware, be it DLC or new games. I do appreciate the extra effort they put forth though, and everyone should no matter what their opinion on it is.

Now they just need to fix the journal.

[Dridengx]

Jerjud45 wrote...
 The scene with the Normandy evac was pretty bad though, it made no sense that Joker would show up that fast, and that the Normandy didn't get blasted. It was just a cheesy fill in to explain the jungle planet landing.

.

It's how it happened in everyone's mind who actually didn't need a quick cutscene explaination

[Jedi31293]

EC summary:

Better, not spectacular. Should have been in the game from the start. Still a less than mediocre ending. Star Child still makes no sense. Reject ending is the only half decent and realistic ending.

Control ending, Shepard becomes God.
Synthesis ending, space magic.
Destroy ending, Geth/Edi die, galaxy rebuilds from scratch

[Darth Death]

Jerjud45 wrote...

EC was definitely an improvement, most of that stuff should have been in the original game to begin with.  

It was, but it was removed. I made a thread a while back explaining this:
social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12635075

Modifié par Darth Death, 26 juin 2012 - 06:02 .

[Darth Death]

Ignore this

Modifié par Darth Death, 26 juin 2012 - 05:58 .

[Lone Triarii]

Nice to see that Harbinger learned some manners. He let me get my crew to the Normandy and have a conversation with them without interrupting and killing everyone. I don’t care what people say, Harbinger is all right in my book.

[84sideswipe]

Its to little to late. I agree with many other posts and articles that if the EC ending was included in the original release, it would have been much better. Its sad that such a great story would not be known by the epic journey, but will be remembered for the failure of the original ending.

[Alyka]

First off, I'd like to thank BW for making the EC. It has given me some closure for my Shepard.I liked the fact that we got some answers from the Catalyst along with a fourth ending option.
However, I'm still left with questions.

I've thought about this since I first finished ME3 back in March and kept it in the back of my mind along with theories and speculations.I didn't want to completely believe the Catalyst was right or wrong just in case the devs had other explainations in the EC.
But now I'm going back and forth with the whole Catalyst bit; Should we believe it or shouldn't we? Does the Catalyst speak from first hand experience because it is the creators AI and that is why it has a valid point?
Does the Catalyst feel bad because it, itself rebelled against it's own creators but that it came up with a solution which is what the first Reaper programmed it to do? Even if it was against their (the organics) will? And now it's trying to make us understand?

If the Catalyst was able to force the organics (the first organics/Reaper) into becoming a Reaper, then why doesn't it just make the ending choice for Shepard? Why does it say that it can't and won't? Does it admire Shepard because he/she is the first organic to set foot in there, so it decides to let Shepard make a choice? "You have choice. More than you deserve."
Or is all this just the Reapers talking; trying to fool us?

"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own.You cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension. I, am sovereign.
My kind transcends your very understanding.We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness.You cannot even grasp the nature of our existence." - Sovereign
But, the Catalyst explained some things to us that we DO comprehend.And alot of Reapers were killed, even Sovereign. So... were they lying to us? Retconned?
Where is this 'realm of existence'? Is it Reaper form?

So having played the EC and now knowing what we know, where does the future of ME go from here?
I can't see the devs making a game set after the events of ME3 in The Milky Way because they would run into problems based on the four ending choices we made.The whole of any future game (if it's set in the Milky Way galaxy) would have to be completely designed around the choices (eg: Synthesis).It would take alot of time and resources.
The only solution is to set the next game in another galaxy where the inhabitants were not affected by our choices.Either that or a prequel.

Modifié par Alyka, 26 juin 2012 - 06:12 .

[Doctor Quinn]

They were an improvement. The catalyst lines added back in restored some credibility to our villains. They balanced the delivery of the ending options though the catalyst still prefers synthesis seemingly. They ended our hopes that the ending was an elaborate indoctrination troll. There really shouldn't be much complaining about Bioware isn't listening. This ending caved to some of the most repeated complaints some of which were the most ill founded imo. They retconned the relays being destroyed. Included fanfics of reapers helping rebuild society. The endings for control and synthesis made me like them less though I was never inclined to those options to begin with. Destroy is good but I hate the compromise Bioware made with fans about the Relays. Sovereign introduced the idea of Reaper control and determinism was that their technology lead society down paths they desire. To be free of that it all needs to go. To choose destroy is to choose freedom. To choose a path for self determination for the organics of this cycle. To embrace this path is to embrace limitation and suffering and conflict. It is not a peaceful utopian universe free of want and suffering, but it is a free one. That was the point that should be made by destroying all of it. Refusal was nice little hat tip to another popular fanfic, but most people liked the idea that it would lead to us watching a noble last stand. Liara's beacon was touching though. So my own feelings are mixed. Control and Synthesis are still morally horrendous endings though.

[nitefyre410]

FemmeShep wrote...

I will say this, while I still think the endings are awful (beyond just the last 10 minutes. I'm talking about the entire philosophy of them and how they define the entire series plot and what it meant) - the EC is an improvement. No doubt.

But these should have always been included in the game. The original endings felt incomplete and rushed, and made no sense. This EC just makes those endings complete, but they are still awful no less. So I mean, I guess I'm sort of not happy with this? I didn't expect them to re-write the ending. So to be honest, I never really expected the EC to make me happy either. But as a consumer, I guess it's like well okay, so they completed the incomplete game that I should have had on launch date. Yay.

That aside, I feel like the Reject ending is a big slap in the face to the consumers for voicing their complaints. Essentially it says: Shepard's choice to be free, ended up being a bad choice. It was a failure that killed us all. I mean yeah, it's implied that the next generation eventually defeats the cycle (with the information passed on from this one). But it's never really clarified how they won. So to me, it kind of insinuates that Shepard's choice to be free, was still a bad decision. And if the other cycle wants to win, they better not **** up like Shepard. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but it wouldn't surprise me given how BioWare has acted up to this point (being resentful of those that didn't like their vision, or see it as being high art).

So yeah, the endings still blow. But at least they feel complete. At least they now make sense (sort of). They still dropped the ball in regards to the War Assets and making them actually mean something. They still dropped the ball in terms of allowing the characters choices throughout the series actually mean something in the end (they really don't, once you get up to that citadel, you are presented with the same choices, regardless what choices you made in 1, 2 and 3. You might be like: well isn't that a bit ridiculous. How do you expect an ending to include your choices. Easy. You make an option where if you did the right things, and had your War Assets up high enough, you could convince all the Galaxy to stand together, and actually beat the reapers with Unity and through battle. That alone would have given players that option/choice that would have reflected their entire game experiences). But nope.

The ending still feels like an isolated section separate from the rest of the games experience. And yeah. I don't know what else to say. Basically, the entire ending relies on a vision from Casey and Mac (that much is obvious). And their vision wasn't a good one. What's unfortuante is that the entire series sort of relied on this ending (since they took it upon themselves to define what the Cycle and Reapers meant in the last minutes of the game). So if that vision fails (it does), then it also takes down the rest of the plot. 

  

My thoughts exactly now instead of being incomplete and bad... the are complete and still sub par.  The Refusal ending and how it was writing came off as childish  . To the fan base  for openly criticizing  Mac Walters and Casey Hudson. Like how dare you question us we are Bioware. 

All in all it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 

[AmaraDark]

If I had to pick two words to describe it, it would be "Bare Minimum".

All they did was try to fix a few of the inexcusable plot holes. The ones that anyone who calls themselves a professional writer should never have allowed out of the first draft (aka drunken napkin scribble) of the writing process in the first place.

It doesn't fix a lot of the other problems with the game. If this had been part of the original game at release, I'd give the game a 7/10 for questionable writing/plot armor moments, with the ending a 5/10 for being lazy, out of sync with the rest of the game and ripping off Deux Ex. I'd feel ripped off, but I wouldn't despise it with the fire of a thousand suns.

Now after all of this, I just feel disappointed after all the time I spent on the original two games. As such, I will be stepping away from Bioware games from now on - I'm sorry, but I'm not going through this again.

On that cheery note, general plot holes left unanswered or were created by this "fix":

Still no explanation for how Anderson teleports on to the Citadel ahead of you.
How you survived a Direct Hit to the FACE from a Reaper Deathbeam.
Your actions prior to the pick-a-color moment still don't count for anything.
And you could still drive the Titanic through starbrats logic.

To resolve the issue of how the people on your squad back on earth end up on the Normandy, there is a new scene mid-run toward the beam where they're injured by plot convenience and picked up. And then they're magically not-injured when they walk out of the Normandy after the random jungle crash.

In the middle of the desperate run, a Reaper firing death beams, and a space battle overhead, the Normandy shows up to pick up your guys. Because that makes sense.

The Normandy fleeing is kinda explained by Hacket ordering the fleet to pull back. But then they immediately throw it for a loop by showing Joker trying to go back for Shepard, but one of your crew members (random) saying that it's too late. Too late for what? How do you even know? And it's still completely out of character for both the crew member and Joker to not to try and rescue Shepard anyway.

And the creepy-future-grandpa scene is just even more left-field then before.

I was not a IT supporter/fan, but I did sympathize with them. To me, the new "Refusal" ending is a fairly passive-aggressive f'u response to IT, as well as the fans who pointed out how out of left field this entire Star-Child BS was. Harbringer and the Reapers kill everyone, cycle continues, STFU noob, go back and pick one of the colored lights.

Destroy Ending Problems: They still decided to cling to the two-second, uncommitted shot of someone that "might" be Shepard taking half a breath at the very very end of Red Beam. Either commit to Shepard being dead, or give the psychotic 100% completionists like myself a real happy ending. You know, choices.

Additionally, because we see this after one of the new scenes where the Citadel is being hauled up out of the Earths atmosphere after it crashed, you've now survived a massive explosion and 2 atmospheric re-entries? This scenario could have been resolved if you showed Joker pulling a Captain Awesome maneuver, grabbing Shepard and then running.

Also why are they trying to outrun the red beam? They're not Reapers, it shouldn't affect them. If the beam/explosion is a danger to the Normandy, shouldn't it also destroy the Earth/citadel as well? And kill Shepard?

EDI and the Geth still die in Destroy, which is still a little cringe-worthy (particularly if Shepard supposedly survive this). After you did multiple missions in ME3 that explicitly state that Reaper-code is unique from other AI code (and even send you on a fetch-quest to obtain samples). WHY in the flying should a device specifically designed over the millennial to target Reaper code, deactivate other AI's? Again, the extreme amounts of space magic make me very disappointed.

Synthesis Ending Problems: They try really hard to sell this one in the new dialog, leading me to think this was the Writers Favorite. The problem with a Writers Favorite is that it gets away with all kinds of stupid stuff - besides the fact that MACHINES DON'T HAVE DNA and the amount of pure space magic involved in this premise.

So first! The Starbrats entire logic for not having done Synthesis at any point before now?

"It Can't be Forced"

Starbrat then asks you, hey, would you like to force this on everyone now? Logic!

This is the ending that bugs me the most for a lot of reasons. The big ones.

It's unethical to make that decision for the entire galaxy, and I'd say Shepard would be remembered less as Hero and more as Cursed villain for all time. The star brats premise that the only alternative is "chaos" and the cycle of synthetic/organic life exterminating each other is questionable at best. I am strongly reminded of Babylon 5, and the order v chaos dichotomy they portrayed for much of that series - except they handled it so much better in that series.

They just spent the entire game emphasizing that the positive qualities of living things aren't restricted to organic beings (Geth/Quarian peace, "Does this unit have a soul?", EDI and Joker, etc.), so the idea that synthetics need some kind of mystical DNA infusion to be "really alive" still seems like a shallow and poorly considered about-face.



Control Ending: Shepard is now Reaper-Jesus. I honestly thought this was a joke when I looked it up online, and it's really the point where I stopped taking this game, the writers and Bioware seriously.

Because this means the Illusive Man was right all along.

[Shatterhand1701]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but...anyone else anxious to see what Angry Joe has to say about the EC? After everything I've seen, I'm DYING to hear his take on it all.

[Bloodleash]

So what, is this the inevitable end of Shepard's story? I took destroy and saw the LI hesitation, I kinda expected an ending scene similar to ME1's ending, although this time I think Shepard may have a few more scars.

http://www.youtube.c...IKWMBJQ#t=8m20s

The Reapers were merely a setback, Shepard for future ME games!

[Vox Draco]

dragonator89 wrote...

Is it so hard to get a DAO ending or something similar.

If bioware had gone with IT it would have been the best mind warping ending in gaming history.

Agree on BOTH points! So far DAO had the best sets of endings of any Bioware-game I can think of now..and I just looking forward to play throguh it again with my female cousland and...she will be alive in the end, at the cost of something valuable and then...I am adding that "Marry Alistair"-mod to it...just to make this Happy-End even more cheesier...take that, artistic integrity! Hah!

And IT is and was the best way ME3 should have ended...it is so sad Bioware doesn't seem to have any idea about their own universe and how to really pull a twist like before...

[Geth_Prime]

Alright, I'll share my thoughts. Hope you're listening, BioWare.

So yeah, like most here, the original ending pissed me off for a number of reasons that I don't need to go over. Thankfully, the Extended Cut has taken care of most of those reasons. I chose the Synthesis ending for my main Shepard. Let me just say I don't give a vorcha's ass about people saying it's morally wrong. Okay, I'll just destroy an entire form of life because it's bad to evolve life to its ultimate form and make everyone happy! I mean, I didn't ask their permission! How evil is that?

Anyway, first off, the lack of closure has DEFINITELY been fixed. From the big things like the quarians and geth making a new future, to the small things like Kasumi with Keiji's graybox...it was all very nice to see. That mix of beautiful music and artwork felt very Mass Effect 1, which I absolutely loved. I'm also pleased that there are a lot of differences in the endings based on your actions. So, closure and variation. That's two of the main problems fixed right off the bat.

Next up - plot holes. Joker's retreat? Fixed. Origin of the starchild? Fixed. How the Crucible and the three choices work? At least partially explained. Relays being destroyed? That was never an issue in the first place. People who say it contradicts the lore don't realise that a supernova of energy can be released in many different ways. The Starchild says the Crucible utilises the power of the relays, so yeah...stop going on about that one. Future of the galaxy? Obviously fixed. There are still a number of things that don't make sense, but I can overlook them.

An interesting addition is the Refusal ending. I'm glad it's possible to walk away, even if the conclusion is very brief. Nice touch.

There are still things missing. Harbinger never got a proper scene, some characters were forgotten...but overall, you've managed to get me from hating the ending to liking it very much. Many will disagree. Like you said, you can never please anyone. And there were many areas of ME3 where I think you slipped up. But constructive criticism is fine when you don't start hating on the developers, and there are certainly a number of people who owe you an apology. I'd like to see them create an absolute masterpiece of a trilogy on such a huge scale.

So thank you, BioWare. It's been a hell of a journey and Mass Effect has actually changed my life in many ways. I look forward to more DLC and of course, future Mass Effect games.

[huntrrz]

Jedi31293 wrote...

Destroy ending, Geth/Edi die, galaxy rebuilds from scratch

Ya know, they didn't show EDI or the Geth in the "Destroy" ending, but...

...they didn't show their bodies, either.  :innocent:


I'm going to fanwank it and say they survived despite the Catalyst's 'advice'.  


EDI's monologue in "Synthesis" is surprisingly touching, but I find the whole thing... unnatural.  It essentially means that life will be stagnant, as 'perfected' DNA is not subject to evolutionary pressures.

"Control" was... acceptable as presented, but had a hint of menace to it.  The Catalyst thought IT was doing what was best for the galaxy, what's to say Shepard won't fall into the same trap eventually?

"Reject" was essentually a big FU to the fans.  At least show a space battle and let EMS determine the outcome.

[Sargerus]

Bloodleash wrote...

So what, is this the inevitable end of Shepard's story? I took destroy and saw the LI hesitation, I kinda expected an ending scene similar to ME1's ending, although this time I think Shepard may have a few more scars.

http://www.youtube.c...IKWMBJQ#t=8m20s

The Reapers were merely a setback, Shepard for future ME games!

Halo 4