4048 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

iamthedave3 wrote...

Krosfiyah wrote...

I liked the extended cut, but basically since the forums consist of whiners and haters who will never be happy with whatever you give them, I felt like we got an ending that rather than leaving things up to our imagination (like all good art), we are left with something explained as if we are all simpletons.

Yes, because art is all about taking what you're given and never applying a little critical thought.

It's not the haters' fault that the original ME 3 endings fall to pieces if you think about them for more than a nanosecond.

Fortunately, the EC does clear up some of the more obvious negatives and spatial anomalies. It doesn't fix what was - at its core - a rotten idea. It just avoids being badly edited into the bargain.

I feel like we should do away with endings. Every game should just stop after the final level/boss and come up with a text message saying 'use your imagination'. It's clearly the best approach, since otherwise they'll have to tell us things and show us stuff, which is just passe and for simpletons.

I think we should just pay for empty disks that tell us to imagine the game, because it's art. 

[Saiyan1126]

Icesong wrote...

So what's the point of the Normandy crash scene?

That part was retconned, but they still tried to salvage some of the scenes. I laughed at their laziness when I noticed the spike was still sticking through the cockpit of the Normandy.

Modifié par Saiyan1126, 27 juin 2012 - 12:40 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

I hope Smudboy tears this down like he did the rest of Mass Effect 3's ending(and middle, and beginning, and Mass Effect 2... it really wasn't the best series).

[Krosfiyah]

3DandBeyond wrote...

iamthedave3 wrote...

Krosfiyah wrote...

I liked the extended cut, but basically since the forums consist of whiners and haters who will never be happy with whatever you give them, I felt like we got an ending that rather than leaving things up to our imagination (like all good art), we are left with something explained as if we are all simpletons.

Yes, because art is all about taking what you're given and never applying a little critical thought.

It's not the haters' fault that the original ME 3 endings fall to pieces if you think about them for more than a nanosecond.

Fortunately, the EC does clear up some of the more obvious negatives and spatial anomalies. It doesn't fix what was - at its core - a rotten idea. It just avoids being badly edited into the bargain.

I feel like we should do away with endings. Every game should just stop after the final level/boss and come up with a text message saying 'use your imagination'. It's clearly the best approach, since otherwise they'll have to tell us things and show us stuff, which is just passe and for simpletons.

I think we should just pay for empty disks that tell us to imagine the game, because it's art. 

I think you should take your e-sarcasm and shove it up your ass tough guy.

BTW they have something like that, its called D&D; im sure your geek-ass plays it with your younger sister every lonely Saturday night.

[ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR]

I was so pumped when the Reject choices kept going. I was practically shouting happy expletives at my screen. And suddenly, the Indoctrination theory was confirmed when the Starboy's voice turned to what I thought was Harbinger's Voice!

Roll TROLOLOLOL Anthem.

We asked for a reject option, you gave it to us, along with a big middle finger. My initial thinking was that it was similar to the never-released Dark Energy ending (from last August's leak) where it was rumored that you could let the side with the Reapers or destroy them and find another way to stop the Dark Energy. But then it just skipped forward ~50,000 years to a Liara VI.

Not only was it trolling by Bioware, but... what happened? I thought the Cycle continued but Stargazer Girl said they were safe and we...won? Or did Liara just tell them to destroy their Mass Relays and hide underground with their fingers in their ears humming the TROLOLOL anthem?

O well. I'm pleased with the expansion and clarification with the other endings. I don't care if Synthesis is the happy ending, Destroy will be my Canon one. If these were included in the original game 75% of the uproar never would have happened.

P.S. If nothing else, it was damn satisfying telling Starbrat to shove it and/or pop him in the head. I did both my first two times :/.

[Saiyan1126]

chem light wrote...

Dumb as it sounds, I was kind of hoping they would edit the game to give you the ability to save closer to the end. 20 minutes of slow walking is somewhat frustrating when you a perfectionist that wants to see all the endings. Then again, I have no idea how complicated a patch that would be.

This. After walking through the Control and Reject, I was about to Destroy, but I decided to screw around and shoot at him because I still hate him. I would've been really pissed about sitting through Reject again if I wasn't laughing so hard from Bioware actually making it so the game registers you shooting at him.

[UWxMaserati]

What bothers me is they played it off like this was always the intended ending and its there story but from playing the EC it seems obvious to me that they ignored or didn't see many of those plot holes and basically patched them up with some forced DLC content that seems to stick it as odd in many cases. They did make the ending work but it still seems watered down and weak to me, not well written. The ending is supposed to be the jaw dropping climax and I still didn't get that feeling with ME3, it just seemed okay to me. Very average.

[ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR]

Saiyan1126 wrote...

chem light wrote...

Dumb as it sounds, I was kind of hoping they would edit the game to give you the ability to save closer to the end. 20 minutes of slow walking is somewhat frustrating when you a perfectionist that wants to see all the endings. Then again, I have no idea how complicated a patch that would be.

This. After walking through the Control and Reject, I was about to Destroy, but I decided to screw around and shoot at him because I still hate him. I would've been really pissed about sitting through Reject again if I wasn't laughing so hard from Bioware actually making it so the game registers you shooting at him.

Same.  I ended up doing reject twice in a row.

[CptData]

Dalako wrote...

Overall, better. But as I predicted, it doesn't ''fix'' the ending in anyway. They said it doesn't fundamentally change the endings, and they are correct. What we get now is an explanation of why your squadmates abandoned you (which, while still not very convincing, is better than nothing), a powerpoint slideshow and a poignant voiceover. Synthesis is now pretty much forced down your throat as the best ending, despite the obvious moral implications (as well as the whole concept being ludicrous, this would be farfetched in the softest of soft sci-fi). Control's somewhat better. So is Destroy.

Well, it includes the sacrifice of Shepard. The Synthesis Ending is displayed as the "best" outcome, but, as you say, it ignores any questions regarding morality. Can you really play "God" and force that "burden" on the backs of trillions?

A lot of issues are about to appear sooner or later:

- knowing everything might become boring one day. Bored people tend to war each other.

- not being mortal but still being able to reproduce? You saw that little Krogan baby. There are hundreds of thousands on their way too, same for any other race. 
I sense overpopulation one day. And overpopulation in a galaxy with limited resources will lead to wars.

- what if people don't accept their new existence? Frustrated people could try to get rid of their synthetic parts and form an opposing group of "pure organics". Also new synthetics can be created as well. So the potential for another war is given.

We got very little extra, so I don't see why people would be so easily pleased or how it would ''fix'' anything. It's better, but the catalyst's faulty logic remains. The ''reject'' ending (basically a glorified game over screen) I regarded as a ''screw you'' from Bioware, and I was pent up with anger. The destroy ending made me feel at least somewhat better.

Yeah, the refusal ending is a kick in the nuts of any supporters of the Indoctrination Theory. It's done, won't come back. Smart move, BW.
In a way I'm glad I didn't pick that one.

I decided for Destruction since it was Shepard's path for full three games. Never saw the Geth dying - they're still there, can be repaired if no longer functional. We're talking about their mobile platforms - their immobile clusters could be still intact 'though.
Same for EDI: maybe she's not active - but can be repaired. Who knows? Joker may find a way. If not, Tali, Gabby, Kenneth & co bring her back. ^^

They still dropped the ball. If people are satisfied with the EC, then this means they were more concerned with the squadmates issue than the Catalyst's inconsistency with the plot and theme of the series. This also means people are really impressed by still images.

Well, I was more concerned with the squadmate issues to be honest. For every other thing I had a functional idea to get a future world working post ME3.

Now, some things got easier: the Normandy isn't screwed. No need to write chapters dealing with the rescue of said ship. The Citadel - still there. Damaged, but can be repaired. It may take centuries, but hey - we have time. In the meanwhile, the Council has another place for daily meetings.

And the Mass Relay Network? Hackett said it - they're considered as "badly damaged", not "gone". They can be repaired. And given the fact Earth sits on thousands of deactivated Reapers with Mass Effect Cores, they also have plenty of Eezo to repair and reactivate the Relays. Also may take several decades - but they can do it.

The Geth?
I didn't saw 'em dying in the Destruction Ending. And EDI may return the one or another way.

And Shepard? He lives. That's enough for me.

Sure, the inconsistency and nonsense stuff is still there, but watered down to something I can work with and put some sense in it. No perfect solution, but my expectations bar was set quite low. Never was hoping for something BIG like removing the old endings and replacing them with something entirely different. So yeah, can work and live with it. It's much better than the old endings. Good enough to me. We won't get better.

[Bullseye_Sally]

Just finished EC and I love what they did with it.  Would've loved for this to have been in the original game but I'm happy with the fixes.  I chose destroy with over 6000 ems.  My only tiny lil complaint is the shepard breathing scene seems outta place since it pops up at the very end after everything has been shown moving on and being rebuilt, including the Citadel.  But it's nothing that will deter me from loading up my other games and playing through to see the other endings as well.  Bravo Mass Effect team!  Also, the added scene showing Shep getting her team off of Earth as they are running to the beam was awesome and I loved how it played out!

[DashRunner92]

To me, destroy is still the best and canon ending. The only tech that may have been destroyed (Other than the relays) would be Edi since she is made of Reaper tech. I don't see why the Geth would be destroyed. They would definitely be damaged, but should be easy to repair since they are Quarian technology. Seeing how none of the ships failed and the Quarian suits were fine, the Geth will be fine too.

Also after hearing the Space God kid's voice go instant Reaper in the reject ending is a big warning light to me again the synthesis ending.

Modifié par DashRunner92, 27 juin 2012 - 12:51 .

[Saint Steel]

Overall improved the Vanilla Endings, I set my expectations low and I guess it was so low they were surpassed. Still hate the whole Starchild thing and the amount of needless scenes they left in (Like crashing on the planet, which served no purpose whatsoever to the storyline.) I can stomach the current ending with a little bit of additional headcannon but, still not to thrilled with Bioware and EA, I will def be more wary of purchasing anything from them due to this whole fiasco. I still like the Destroy ending cuz my Shep lives and it fits my head cannon.

Modifié par Saint Steel, 27 juin 2012 - 12:51 .

[CoolioThane]

I fricking loved it so much. I cried from sadness and happiness!

It made me change my mind. With this Shep I always went destroy, but the EC explained what they all were so well...I went synthesis. I always hated synthesis but it felt right for him

My Femshep is staying alive to be with Garrus...non-negotiable

[Menagra]

Ok, here is my extremely long rant on the ending. I have to admit I still love Bioware and still look forward to more games from them. I just have oppinions. Maybe they are entitled or maybe they will help. I don't know, I will post either way. I am grateful for the entertainment value of the games, and that they can be something I care so much about that I write an incredibly long winded rant about it. Even with all the negative feelings I might be having, the controversy at least makes the games something to talk about and therefore something to think about. For that I am grateful. Perhaps Bioware wishes fans like me wouldn't rattle on and on and on, but oh well. Here goes:

I wonder how the indoctrination theorists are feeling about this. It's clear bioware did not intend an epic "lets-make-history" reveal of "the truth". I would be lying if I didn't say I was disappointed. I am not nearly as upset as I was the first time around, but honestly I believed in bioware then. I went into this extended cut with pessimistic hope, and it appears my pessimisim was validated rather than my hope. It's not the normal disappoint where you want more out of a game but you know the developers just couldn't possibly do it and make money. It's that they could do it and clearly choose not to for reasons that just don't impress. I feel like bioware is trying to manipulate me into accepting a product that lack's the quality of their abilities. I have passing fears that these creative minds look down their noses at their audience and therefore care little about the satisfaction of their audience. I couldn't help but imagining a giant hand pointing and saying "see it makes sense, you just didn't GET it before" and not "our product was faulted before lets make it better". 

On one hand I feel bad for BW because I feel like they were put in a position where they had to choose between critics (their future reviews) and their fans (their future income). The slew of critics (And some bioware employees) attacking or insulting fans by calling them things like  "entitled" for giving their oppinion on a product they purchased put Bioware in a really unfair position. Frankly it's the reviewers who put a lot of the expectations in our heads initially, and they get paid to advertise so they sold and sold and sold and sold this game even before it was out just so they could seem they had the inside scoup and therefore had something to talk about to get people to read their writing and see their ads that pays their income (or subscribe). Essentially the critics held the whole industry hostage claiming if Bioware changed the ending it would be disaster for the industry. If the critics hadn't said anything of the like...then Bioware very well could have changed the ending without much of a nod from the rest of the industry. And so they couldn't change the endings without enraging critics and their peers, but it also was a risk because if the fans didn't like it then no one would like it and they were 100% screwed. So their best bet was to try to "fix" the endings we got by elaborating (which they did with this ECDLC). That way they only risk upsetting the longtime fans (they have made many new ones that harbor no risk). I am sorry but after this shenanigan and all the promotion of "the free extended ending" a monologue with a still frame slideshow just feels like trolling --- even with it being free. Ok maybe not trolling...it feels safe. Incredibly dissapointingly safe. Even with BW hiding behind the "artistic integrity" euphamism it's clear they are just walking on eggshells trying to please everyone. Meaning they lost their artistic integrity long ago.

It just seems like BW is so caught up in the politics and economics of the industry that at the end they no longer care at all about the user experience no matter how many moderators they pay to interact with us. I am sure many people are tired of arguing, tired of dissagreeing and tired of asking "please fix this" because at this point they think there is no point. Maybe they even feel that they have to play to BW's ego in hope BW will throw them a bone, IDK. I do know that when shepard appeared on the screen, took a breath and that was the end of the DLC I couldn't help but shake my head and be flabergasted that BW had to have some "artistic" unresolved ending with the clearly surviving shepard. Scratch that it's not anymore "artistic" to have an ending that is unresolved. You can argue that the ending is resolved because they explained more what happens, but this was SHEPARD'S story and therefore it should have been SHEPARD'S ending.

Sad or abrupt endings are as old as ancient greece and it makes the art quality of the story no more or less artistic. It's a cop out move to seemingly improve the intellectual quality of your work to a certain intellectual audience (critics). Same people who read Joseph Campbells "a hero with a thousand faces" and think that if a story doesn't fit that formula or address similar themes it lacks in quality. The rise of the female hero already proved Carl Jung wrong, yet it's an established standard of quality that is easy to consider when reviewing. I think it proves that stories  (be it books, tv, or video games) are depleted of their quality under that standard of expectations. Video games in their nature are a whole new version of storytelling and house possibilities that haven't yet been experienced. The new era of relational art inspired by minimalist sculptor demands that video games step away from the linear storytelling of books/movies and embrace their own unique way of telling INTERACTIVE stories. This means video games don't have to pull the same tricks books/movies do to increase their "artistic quality" because they are an entirely different medium all together. It funnels the story, and degrades the medium. It makes the medium appear that it must pander and pray to other mediums when it clearly does not. Biowares move towards cinematic storytelling with a novel like structure resulted in participants feeling less like participants. It's clear when Bioware calls themselves artists they mean it more in the sense of an author instead of a painter, performer, sculptor, etc. In fact authors have been given as examples in debates around the "artistic integrity" of changing the ending.

In the end I felt the story had so much potential, but it wasn't good story telling----it was forced story telling. Bioware lost their voice in refusing to give fans real options. RGB is still very similar, and the refusal ending just feels like a middle finger to the fans. Bioware started this journey of a trilogy with exported saves, epic choices and advertised consequences. In reality these things only exist as a minor factor. In fact if you never opened your war assets you probably wouldn't even notice they existed at all before the Extended Cut DLC. Now you better remember what you did because all you get are stock images of some characters with a monologue.

Oh and the"thank you" for helping bioware along that way. It translates as "please don't be mad". To which I am addressing the following:

Dear Bioware,
I am not mad. I am just disapointed. Please don't make anymore promises you can't keep and I will stop being dissapointed. I promise I will still buy your games.
-a fan<3

Modifié par infraredman, 27 juin 2012 - 12:56 .

[ElectronicPostingInterface]

8/10, I loved all the changes except a lack of a reunion scene. That blew hard.

[Trav-O]

Hmm. I was hopeful. I'm sorry, BW, I think I'm just going to be one of those who just can't be happy with how it turned out. I'm not going to start a campaign. This EC only answers 'hey everyone can still be alive' but not anything personal I was really looking for.
But if I had to rate them, Control was probably handled the best it could have been.

Modifié par Trav-O, 27 juin 2012 - 12:56 .

[chem light]

UWxMaserati wrote...

What bothers me is they played it off like this was always the intended ending and its there story but from playing the EC it seems obvious to me that they ignored or didn't see many of those plot holes and basically patched them up with some forced DLC content that seems to stick it as odd in many cases. They did make the ending work but it still seems watered down and weak to me, not well written. The ending is supposed to be the jaw dropping climax and I still didn't get that feeling with ME3, it just seemed okay to me. Very average.

Thinking about it now, it kind of reminds me of one of the Jade Empire endings.  The old guy says, well you can fight me...or you can die and I'll make a statue of you.  Who says yes to that?

[Raikas]

chem light wrote...

Dumb as it sounds, I was kind of hoping they would edit the game to give you the ability to save closer to the end. 20 minutes of slow walking is somewhat frustrating when you a perfectionist that wants to see all the endings. Then again, I have no idea how complicated a patch that would be.

That would totally have been a nice addition. It's a long thing (with a lot of unskippable dialogue) to have to replay.

Overall I was really pleased with the EC - the explanation for where the squad-mates went, why the Normandy was flying off and who dies with destroy were exactly the kind of thing I'd hoped to see.  Still thought the whole reaper-history was a little silly, but that's not something I thought would change.  And I totally laughed at Zaeed sitting in his deck chair, so I can't really complain.

Modifié par Hervoyl, 27 juin 2012 - 01:16 .

[UltimateTobi]

Where has been the impact of my decisions? Cool story BioWare. I always kept my mouth shut about the ending in this god damn BSN. But finally my ass blew up. I stood faithful and got disappointed.

Closure my A-S-S. Took destroy again. So what at the so-called IT-evidences? I believed in them, and what is it in reality? A bunch of laziness and bad writing, cool. xD Illusive Man must've a nice visit on the Citadel. Did he enjoy his camp there? Coffey with a Husk maybe.

Seriously, what are these pink-blue piles on each side then? Could you tell me please. I'd like to know that.

I kept my ****ing mouth shut and well, that's what I got for it. Thanks BioWare.

Modifié par UltimateTobi, 27 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[Ogrek]

... well, at least the Control ending makes more sense now. Especially with the new Reaper God playing the Reapers like puppets to rebuild things and all. Plus, at least we now know that Garrus and Tali will do okay, since the ship wasn't irreparably damaged.

With that in mind, the very bit at the end still makes little sense in the Control or Synthesis endings, unless Reaper God goes crazy, or something else crops up to take away the Stargazer's society's knowledge of space travel and other worlds.

And with that being said, this ending reminds me of the Deus Ex: Human Revolution endings, though.  That's not a good thing - the same feeling that you get shoehorned into the same ending, no matter what choices you made throughout the game, and then ending with a lot of still shots and a bit of animation.

EDIT: I do like what they did with Zaeed though.  About time he got to kick back.

Modifié par Ogrek, 27 juin 2012 - 01:05 .

[Zelto]

Not long completed the EC ending (regect and destroy, dont have the patience to do all 4). Hard to decide what I thought. Its an improvement, which is something, compared to the origional ending it is much much better and have a better overall feel,.

But what if I had never played the origional? Not sure I would have liked it that much.

They fixed the plothole with your companions on the ship by having the normandy called in to pick them up, ok, that makes sence, other than the normandy sitting for about 2 minutes in front of harbenger, who judging on how fast he was firing his laser before would have been able to destroy the normandy about 100 times!

Few other minor retcons up untill the starchild. Much better explination of what was happening, a genuine ability to regect him (I didn't actaully have to shoot him just went through the dialogue and then said no). Endings not don't seen as doom and gloom but still hardly great, but then they never where going to be unless they totally changed the entire thing.

Overall, maybe a 5/10? B for effort. Tried hard, still lots of room for improvement.

p.s. Thank You Bioware for atleast trying, still going to take a lot to convince me to buy your next game (unless its KotOR 3, in which case I will forgive all!)

p.p.s. Still no conclusive outcome for the geth, the quarians (in terms of immunity, still shown wearing masks), the rachnii. Also the timeline seems a bit squiffy with the shepard breath shot!

Modifié par Zelto, 27 juin 2012 - 01:00 .

[Saiyan1126]

CptData wrote...

*Snip*

I agree with most of what you said, but your conclusion on EDI and the Geth scream you're in denial. EDI is dead. They put her name on the wall. The wall is god. The wall decides who lives and who dies. That's why the Shepard's name isn't on the wall in the Destroy ending.

[Ronnocloki]

With some time to think about it I have come to the conclusion that I still loathe the endings. While some of the more blatant plotholes were given a bare minimum fix and that is a good thing, I am know forced to consider the endings based on there own merits rather than the implied death of the galaxy.

And frankly I find them wanting. The Star Child still feels like an unnecessary Deus ex Machina, the three options he gives are filled with appalling implications and frankly the knowledge that the next cycle just used the crucible completely undermines that ending.

I would have loved to see an ending where we realized that the crucible fit the Reapers modus operandi of guiding organic civilizations along their designs through technology, and then used that knowledge to defeat the Reapers conventionally. If the Reapers believe we are going to use the catalyst that should impact their strategy, we should have been able to exploit this.

While I knew this wouldn't happen I did hope for it particularly when it first became clear that there was a reject option. As it is I'm just, disappointed.

[SliPaladin]

I loved the fact that there was a Reapers win ending and I seriously loved the Control ending. This was well worth it.

[Krosfiyah]

CptData wrote...

Dalako wrote...

Overall, better. But as I predicted, it doesn't ''fix'' the ending in anyway. They said it doesn't fundamentally change the endings, and they are correct. What we get now is an explanation of why your squadmates abandoned you (which, while still not very convincing, is better than nothing), a powerpoint slideshow and a poignant voiceover. Synthesis is now pretty much forced down your throat as the best ending, despite the obvious moral implications (as well as the whole concept being ludicrous, this would be farfetched in the softest of soft sci-fi). Control's somewhat better. So is Destroy.

Well, it includes the sacrifice of Shepard. The Synthesis Ending is displayed as the "best" outcome, but, as you say, it ignores any questions regarding morality. Can you really play "God" and force that "burden" on the backs of trillions?

A lot of issues are about to appear sooner or later:

- knowing everything might become boring one day. Bored people tend to war each other.

- not being mortal but still being able to reproduce? You saw that little Krogan baby. There are hundreds of thousands on their way too, same for any other race. 
I sense overpopulation one day. And overpopulation in a galaxy with limited resources will lead to wars.

- what if people don't accept their new existence? Frustrated people could try to get rid of their synthetic parts and form an opposing group of "pure organics". Also new synthetics can be created as well. So the potential for another war is given.

Yeah I thought how they summed up the Synthesis ending to be wierd as well.  To me, Synthesis is bad because it stops the evolutionary process altogether.  Evolution is what makes organics unique and what allows society to progress as opposed to synthetics who are limited by how they were programmed.

Modifié par Krosfiyah, 27 juin 2012 - 01:02 .