4048 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

GenObiOne wrote...

Played all four endings last night. Did not need to start from Chronos Station. I started from Citadel Return. I do not play MP but I I have Infiltrator and the Datapad. Galaxy Readiness at 100 percent, 7,100 plus EMS. Shep lives on destroy. OK. The Geth also lived on Destroy (wtf?!) according to the Epilogue pictures, but EDI died according to the Normandy's Memorial Wall.

I'm still convinced that IT is correct. Shep never goes to the Citadel and the whole thing from the moment he/she gets zapped by Harby's laser is the most surreal boss-fight ever - a battle of wills betweeen Shep and Harby with TIM and Anderson as the devil and angel on Shep's shoulders. Synthesis is what Reapers do to their chosen race anyway - listen to EDI at the Collector Base in ME2. Control - the Reapers' indoctrination wins. Shep is lied to about being able to control the Reapers. Actually, he/she is lied to about Synthesis. Destroy is the only viable option, but Reaper child says it comes with nasty consequences as well and tries to dissuade you.

So, Reaper child is an AI, an evil C3PO who failed at human-cyborg relations and turned his creators into a Reaper. He then continues doing the same to all space-faring life in order to appease his guilty conscience, arguingthat the created ALWAYS turn on their creators. Find his plug and pull it. Gotta be some wires we can cross to hurt it!

As a stand-alone game, especially if you've not played ME1 and ME2, ME 3 is very good and the EC adds closure. But, as the last part of a trilogy in which every decision has consequences, it is seriously lacking. IT wins. Do you hear that hum? Is that just me?

Wait what? You got a slide with geth in Destroy?

[GenObiOne]

TIM's dialogue slips up in a few places. With the Geth suriving Destroy I am even more convinced that IT is true. Synthesis is too rosy to be true while Control panders to Shep's ego. Brainwashing, pure and simple, to make Shep feel happy about not destroying the Reapers.

[clearsnowflakes]

IxSITHxI wrote...

as the EC sinks in people are going to realise all of the things that are still wrong or outta place. Theres gonna be another outcry and we re gonna have a similar situation as before

I think the EC is wrong and out of place (however, it is a huge improvement on the original ending), and I'm sure I'm not the only one...  Sadly enough, I've pretty much given up on Mass Effect and Bioware, and therefore can't make myself care enough to be part of another outcry.

[ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR]

IxSITHxI wrote...

as the EC sinks in people are going to realise all of the things that are still wrong or outta place. Theres gonna be another outcry and we re gonna have a similar situation as before

Agreed.

Especially if they go for a Reunion DLC, they have to explain how Shep showed up on Earth.  If they play the "he has Amnesia" card, I'm going to go ballistic.  If they say he got pickedup by a shuttle/fighter/ship that crash laned into (presumably) London, fully disintergrating but leaving Shepard alive in Concrete, I'm going to lose it.

If they say that he survived Re-Entry without a helmet (needless to say in Space on the Citadel as well) "To keep his brain intact", yeah....I'll lose it.

The only other route I can (and I'm stretching here) see this go is the Battlestar Galctica route/Starbuck in the last few episodes of the show.

(I guess Spoiler Alert for Battlestar Galactica ending)

Starbuck died when her ship was sucked into a black hole.  Her fighter disintegrated, Apollo saw her die.  Suddenly, a few episodes later she shows up in a brand new ship, yet its the same ship she always had.  Couldn't be explained until.....

They revealed she was basically an Angel in the final episode, sent back to guide them to Earth.  And then she disappeared, because her time was done.

If they go somewhere along that route, saying Shep was sent back (it was a miracle he survived in ME2) by a higher power to save the Galaxy, and then protected him during re-entry, I'll lose it.  It made enough sense in BSG because of all th religious themes; here it doesnt fit.

Indoctrination Theory still holds weight post EC as the only plausible way that Shepard ended up on Earth.

[IxSITHxI]

clearsnowflakes wrote...

IxSITHxI wrote...

as the EC sinks in people are going to realise all of the things that are still wrong or outta place. Theres gonna be another outcry and we re gonna have a similar situation as before

I think the EC is wrong and out of place (however, it is a huge improvement on the original ending), and I'm sure I'm not the only one...  Sadly enough, I've pretty much given up on Mass Effect and Bioware, and therefore can't make myself care enough to be part of another outcry.

oh i agree that it was a huge improvement over the ending, but that really isnt saying too much when it was absolute **** to begin with.

The EC actually added a huge plot hole. With the med evac, Harbinger had no reasson not to destroy the normandy. plain and simple

[Dom382]

Shepard might just be in the rubble of the Citadel,

[Recon911PDW]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but why did it make a weird sound when Anderson calls Shepard after he gets thrown into the room on the citadel where it has all the bodies? Did anyone else wonder what that was all about and why they added that part in?

[ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR]

IxSITHxI wrote...

clearsnowflakes wrote...

IxSITHxI wrote...

as the EC sinks in people are going to realise all of the things that are still wrong or outta place. Theres gonna be another outcry and we re gonna have a similar situation as before

I think the EC is wrong and out of place (however, it is a huge improvement on the original ending), and I'm sure I'm not the only one...  Sadly enough, I've pretty much given up on Mass Effect and Bioware, and therefore can't make myself care enough to be part of another outcry.

oh i agree that it was a huge improvement over the ending, but that really isnt saying too much when it was absolute **** to begin with.

The EC actually added a huge plot hole. With the med evac, Harbinger had no reasson not to destroy the normandy. plain and simple

I take the Normandy Evac scene as a filler scene.  They had to explain how your squadmates suddenly crash landed on another planet, which I'm pretty sure they didn't intend to initally.  Its a WTF, Really?  But what other choice did they have?  They can't teleport, Steve got shot down, and every other ship is busy.  Did they bend the rules a bit for that scene? Definitely.  Timeout, I gotta call in an EVAC. (Normandy Spawns) (Evac Commences) (Goodbye, LI) (Normandy leaves) (Harbinger resumes shooting)

Obviously it doesnt make sense, but it still makes more sense then Space Magic causing them to teleport/crash land on a Jungle planet.

[ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR]

Dom382 wrote...

Shepard might just be in the rubble of the Citadel,

It definitely looked like Earth.  After it got blown apart, I doubt it still had artificial gravity to keep stuff from floating around.  If a chunk of metal had flown by I would believe it but....  It just has the Earth-like atmosphere in that scene...  plus he's breathing, presumably without a helmet :/

[Journeyman313]

to spartas husky. dawnguard is going to be epic and unless BW does something like a IDK revive the ME series from ashes. with some sort of super dlc then BW is going to loose customer to bethesda. skyrim is epic and not a dissapointment ppl arent gonna leave their hand on the stove

[CronoDragoon]

ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR wrote...

Dom382 wrote...

Shepard might just be in the rubble of the Citadel,

It definitely looked like Earth.  After it got blown apart, I doubt it still had artificial gravity to keep stuff from floating around.  If a chunk of metal had flown by I would believe it but....  It just has the Earth-like atmosphere in that scene...  plus he's breathing, presumably without a helmet :/

Rubble is rubble. It makes more sense for him to be in Citadel rubble, and you can always breathe without a helmet on the Citadel, as per some layer that coats the air outlining the Citadel or something something it's in the codex, lol.

[IxSITHxI]

CronoDragoon wrote...

ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR wrote...

Dom382 wrote...

Shepard might just be in the rubble of the Citadel,

It definitely looked like Earth.  After it got blown apart, I doubt it still had artificial gravity to keep stuff from floating around.  If a chunk of metal had flown by I would believe it but....  It just has the Earth-like atmosphere in that scene...  plus he's breathing, presumably without a helmet :/

Rubble is rubble. It makes more sense for him to be in Citadel rubble, and you can always breathe without a helmet on the Citadel, as per some layer that coats the air outlining the Citadel or something something it's in the codex, lol.

you can see rebar and crashed makos. theres no rebar on the citadel

Modifié par IxSITHxI, 28 juin 2012 - 06:26 .

[Spooky81]

Just like the ending to Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2, I expected the finale to the Commander Shepard trilogy to haunt me and leave me in a position where i wanted more because of how epic, immersive and captivating the former two were. After watching all the endings to the EC, all i can say is Mass Effect 3 is a Mass Fail. Wish I could trade back those hours of sleep I gave up working towards the EC ending.

That being said, i'm 99% convinced we'll never see anything as grand and epic as DA:0 or ME2 again. Defintely not looking forward to DA3.

[CronoDragoon]

Can you point out the crashed makos to me? I am not seeing them in the clip.

[IxSITHxI]

Spooky81 wrote...

Just like the ending to Dragon Age: Origins and Mass Effect 2, I expected the finale to the Commander Shepard trilogy to haunt me and leave me in a position where i wanted more because of how epic, immersive and captivating the former two were. After watching all the endings to the EC, all i can say is Mass Effect 3 is a Mass Fail. Wish I could trade back those hours of sleep I gave up working towards the EC ending.

That being said, i'm 99% convinced we'll never see anything as grand and epic as DA:0 or ME2 again. Defintely not looking forward to DA3.

exactly, ME , ME 2 , and DA: O made me want to keep playing and wanting more content. But  even with the
ec the ending was meh at best. Theres was a lot of stupid underhanded stuff forced in the EC.

[Jovian09]

I don't think I could have been happier with the EC. It's still bittersweet, rather than the fairytale ending some hoped for, but I think it maintains the integrity BioWare envisioned for it. With so many of the loose ends tied up, particularly the Catalyst being explained much better, the ending became in abundance what it previously hadn't been at all: satisfying.

As an added bonus, they haven't completely killed off the Mass Effect franchise now, since there is a future in which the entire galaxy isn't confined to the Sol system.

[Cobretti ftw]

Ah it may be that the ending was Meh.. but it was SOO MUCH BETTER. i actually liked it.( not all the endings of course, but at least now i can say that at least one of them has made me satisfied). But i agree.. i dont felll atached to the franchise as i was before.

[redsox95MB]

I loved it! My theory on how an ancient civilization created the reapers, and then became some of the first reapers, was correct!

[Tesar]

At least we got something acceptable in terms of quality. Along with added 4th option (do nothing) ending is more or less complex and explanatory. It's not good, but at least not as awful as it was. BTW they broke their promise not to touch the original ending, which is proof of lack of 'artistic vision' from the beginning and tight schedule. So my position is the same - no preorders of Bioware games until fan rewievs available.

Modifié par Tesar, 28 juin 2012 - 07:03 .

[comrade gando]

these endings are still lousy. first of all, they didn't fix anything it's still A.B.C. cept this time there's the trolltacular refuse but that's another case. Casey we can still say we got ending "A, B, and C". stop trolling man it's not good for your fanbase when you jerk them around like this...

anyway the endings still suck, they're barely explained, there's still a ton of random craziness going on at the start of when harbinger attacks, and all the endings just leave me depressed because shepard gets treated like garbage no matter what and that's not what he deserves. No more money from me sir. Not until you clean up this act.

[Daveros]

The themes were expanded on nicely with the discussion with the Catalyst, which was great, but they never bothered me in the first place.

Let me say this, I'm more than happy with the EC, but I don't see it as any sort of improvement over the original. I had problems with the way that the EC needed to be jammed into the existing framework of the narrative; it felt very forced. Also, I thought we'd moved away from the "...then the roof fell on you, and this is what happened to everyone else..." endings? The stills with voice over were entirely annoying. As is the stargazer sequence, really. I mean, yay, Buzz Aldrin, but boo, he really shouldn't be in the sequence if he's unacceptable as a voice over artist. The same with the Catalyst, great dialogue at times, which was let down by the artist - whom I can only imagine is quite young and doing their best, but still...

Still, good work with the game. I'm not really complaining, but I am a little. The flow of the narrative needed to be a little better at the end, is all.

[IxSITHxI]

still A B C (D whos gonna pick that after its an auto kill on everyone) endings

forced med evac (even though your squad never got hit)

harby would have shot down the normandy the moment that it had gotten in range. They literally sat there for 2 - 3 minutes perfectly still only a few hundred yards away.

god child scene is still meh but alittle better

the quality of all the added stuff visually, was very poor compared to other cutscenes

the added "closure" was just a bunch of very very vauge screenshots

theres lines of code in the EC with dialouge that wasnt in the EC which means we didnt get the full thing which means we probably have to buy dlc to get it.

the shepard breath scene is still there and never explained. how is is possible that they rebuilt the citadel but never found shepard, alive or dead?

the list goes on. sure its an improvement over the original endings, but the original endings were so bad its not much of a realistic improvement at all. The EC was really forced into the game and it shows. They shouldve taken more time to make it perfect.

Modifié par IxSITHxI, 28 juin 2012 - 07:04 .

[Spartas Husky]

This... so much this


By "Made Nightwing"

So, my lit professor and I are nerds. I throw in 'but the prize' references on my essays about Odysseus and Achilles, he throws in Firefly references in his lectures, we get on great. Now, I've previously mentioned that he disliked the endings EDIT: He dropped in on the forum to correct my paraphrasing of our conversation, so I'm updating the OP to have his infinitely superior original words replace my own feeble attempts:

Drayfish, p.13:

I've never posted on this forum before, so I hope I don't embarrass myself or this discussion entirely – and I apologise for the wall of text that is to follow, but I'm an academic, and tedious tracts of self-important linguistic gymnastics is what we do.

My name is Dr. Dray, and I should start by saying: oh, dear, I've been cited for my nerd indignation. I'm surprised Made Nightwing didn't mention that my little fists were shaking with rage. But they were. They did. With feeble, pointless nerd rage.

I must point out though, that as flattered as I am to be referenced, were I still marking Made Nightwing's work I would have to circle this passage and remind him that these words are not in fact directly attributable to me: his phrasing is a paraphrase of our conversation rather than a quotation. ...However, he has an attentive mind, and I must admit that he has captured the majority of my issues with the ending, my penchant for hyperbole, and the general dislocation of the thematic threads that I felt violated the larger narrative arc of the trilogy. And I'm sad to say I did use the words 'thematically revolting' – although I've watched both the Matrix sequels and Godfather 3, so I've probably said that phrase quite a lot.

If you'll permit me then, I did just want to write quickly in my own words to clarify some of my issues with these endings, and why I thought that they erode the themes heretofore at the core of their series. Of course, all of these arguments have no doubt been stated numerous times by voices far more worthy than mine over the past few weeks, but as someone intrigued by the production and reception of literature in all its forms this has been a fascinating – if disheartening – time to be an enormous fan of this fiction. I'd also like to particularly commend Strange Aeons for the fantastic post. And that analogy: 'It’s like ending Pinocchio with Geppetto stuffing him into a wood chipper'. What an exquisite image!

So, putting aside all of the hanging plot threads that rankled me (where was the Normandy going? why did my squad mates live? Anderson is where now? wait, the catalyst was Haley Joel Osment? etc), I would like to explain why, when I was offered those three repellent choices, I turned and tried to unload my now infinite pistol into the whispy-space-ghost's face. It was not because I was unhappy that my Shepard would not get to drink Garrus under the table one last time, or get to help Tali build a back-porch on her new homestead, nor that I was pretty sure no one was going to remember to feed my space fish – it was because those three ideological options were so structurally indefensible that they broke the suspension of disbelief that Bioware had (up until that point) so spectacularly crafted for over a hundred hours of narrative. Suddenly Shepard was not simply being asked to sacrifice a race or a friend or him/herself for the greater good (all of which was no doubt expected by any player paying attention to the tone of the series), Shepard was being compelled, without even the chance to offer a counterpoint, to perform one of three actions that to my reading each fundamentally undermined the narrative foundations upon which the series seemed to rest.

In the Control ending, Shepard is invited to pursue the previously impossible path of attempting to dominate the reapers and bend them to his will. Momentarily putting aside the vulgarity of dominating a species to achieve one's own ends (and I will get to complaining about that premise soon enough), this has proved to be the failed modus operandi of every antagonist in this fiction up until this point – including the Illusive Man and Saren – all of whom have been chewed up and destroyed by their blind ambition, incapable of controlling forces beyond their comprehension. Nothing in the vague prognostication of the exposition-ghost offers any tangible justification for why Shepard's plunge into Reaper-control should play out any differently. In fact, as many people have already pointed out, Shepard has literally not five minutes before this moment watched the Illusive Man die as a consequence of this arrogant misconception.

The Destroy ending, however, seems even more perverse. One of the constants of the Mass Effect universe (and indeed much quality science fiction) has been an exploration of the notion that life is not simplistically bound to biology, that existence expands beyond the narrow parameters of blood and bone. That is why synthetic characters like Legion and EDI are so compelling in this context, why their quests to understand self-awareness – not simply to ape human behaviours – is so dramatic and compelling. Indeed, we even get glimpses of the Reapers having more sprawling and unknowable motivations that we puny mortals can comprehend...

To then end the tale by forcing the player to obliterate several now-proven-legitimate forms of life in order to 'save' the traditional definition of fleshy existence is not only genocidal, it actually devolves Shephard's ideological growth, undermining his ascent toward a more enlightened conception of existence, something that the fiction has been steadily advancing no matter how Renegadishably you wanted to play. This is particularly evident when the preceding actions of all three games entirely disprove the premise that synthetic will inevitably destroy organic: the Geth were the persecuted victims, trying their best to save the Quarians from themselves; EDI, given autonomy, immediately sought to aid her crew, even taking physical form in order to experience life from their perspective and finally learning that she too feared the implications of death.

And finally Synthesis, the ending that I suspect (unless we are to believe the Indoctrination Theory) is the 'good' option, proves to be the most distasteful of all. Shepard, up until this point has been an instrument though which change is achieved in this universe, and dependent upon your individual Renegade or Paragon choices, this may have resulted in siding with one species or another, letting this person live or that person die, even condemning races to extinction through your actions. But these decisions were always the result of a mediation of disparate opinions, and a consequence of the natural escalation of these disputes – Shepard was merely the fork in the path that decided which way the lava would run. His/her actions had an impact, but was responding to events in the universe that were already in motion before he/she arrived.

To belabour the point: Shepard is an agent for arbitration, the tipping point of dialogues that have, at times, root causes that reach back across generations. Up until this moment in the game the narrative, and Shepard's role within it, has been about the negotiation of diversity, testing the validity of opposing viewpoints and selecting a path through which to evolve on to another layer of questioning. Suddenly with the Synthesis ending, Shepard's capacity to make decisions elevates from offering a moral tipping point to arbitrarily wiping such disparity from the world. Shepard imposes his/her will upon every species, every form of life within the galaxy, making them all a dreary homogenous oneness. At such a point, wiping negotiation and multiplicity from the universe, Shepard moves from being an influential voice amongst a biodiversity of thought to sacrificing him/herself in an omnipotent imposition of will.

(And lest we forget that the entire character arc of Javik (the 'bonus' paid-DLC character that gives unique context to the entire cycle of destruction upon which this fiction is based) is utilised to reveal that a lack of diversity, the failure to continue adapting to new circumstances, was the primary reason that his race was decimated. ...So I guess we have that to look forward to.)

And this was the analogy I made to Made Nightwing in our discussion (and which I have bored people with elsewhere): this bewildering finale felt as if you had been listening to a soaring orchestral movement that ended in a cacophonous blast, the musicians tossing down their instruments and walking away. I find it hard to conceive how the creators of such a magnificent franchise could have made such a mess of their own universe. The plot holes, thematic inconsistencies and a deus ex machina that was unforgivable in ancient Greek theatre, let alone in any modern narrative, all combine to erode the foundations upon which the rest of the experience resides. (It's a disturbing sign when apologists for such an ending have to literally hope that what they witnessed was just a bad dream in the central character's head.)

I'm sure in my diatribe with Made Nightwing I would have cited Charles Dickens being alert to, and adapting his writing in response to the floods of letters he received from his fans in the serialised delivery of stories such as The Old Curiosity Shop. And I know I mentioned F.Scott Fitzgerald extensively redrafting Tender is the Night for a second publishing after receiving negative critical feedback. Indeed, whatever you think of the final result, Ridley Scott was able to reassert a definitive vision of Blade Runner in spite of its original theatrical release. Despite what critics might burble about artistic vision there is innumerable precedent for such reshaping, even beyond fundamental industry practices such as play-testings and film test-screenings. If a work of art has failed in its communicative purpose (and unless angering and bewildering its most invested fans was the goal, then Mass Effect 3 has done so), then it cannot be considered a success, and is not worthy of regard.

And for those who would respond that I, and fans like myself, are simply upset because the endings do not offer some irrefutable 'clarity' that would mar the poetic mysteries of the ending, I would point out that I am in no way against obscure or bewildering endings: if they are earned. In contrast to a majority of viewers, I happen to love the ending of The Sopranos for precisely this reason – because, despite the momentary jolt of surprise it engendered, that audacious blank screen was wholly thematically supportable. The driving premise of that program was a man seeking therapy (a mobster, yes, but a psychologically damaged man) – indeed, the very first beat in that narrative was Tony Soprano walking into a psychiatrist's office. The principle thematic tie of the entire series was therefore revealed to be a mediation upon the underlying psychological stimuli that produces identity: whether the capacity to interpret and understand one's impulses can impact upon the experience of one's life; whether one can attain agency over one's life.

That ending might have been agonising, but it was entirely fitting that the series ended with a loaded ambiguity, inviting a myriad of interpretations in which we the audience were now placed into the role of the psychiatrist, suddenly compelled to reason out the ending of those final thirty seconds with the cumulative experience of the preceding six years of imagery. Did Tony die? Did he have a second plate of onion rings and enjoy his family's company? Did Meadow ever park that car? In its final act The Sopranos gives over the interpretive, descriptive function of its narrative to its audience, intimately binding the viewer to Tony Soprano's own (perhaps failed) attempts to comprehend himself and attain authorship over his life. ...But the only reason that they could even try this is because every minute of every episode to this point has been propagated upon the notion that Tony Soprano was a man with a subconscious that could be explored, and that motivated his actions whether as a loving father or brutal criminal.

The obscurities in the ending of Mass Effect 3 have not been similarly earned by its prior narrative. This narrative has not until this point been about dominance, extermination, and the imposition of uniformity – indeed, Shepard has spent over a hundred hours of narrative fighting against precisely these three themes. And if one of these three (and only these three) options must be selected in order to sustain life in the universe, then that life has been so devalued by that act as to make the sacrifice meaningless.

And that is why I shall continue to go on shooting Haley-Joel-Osment-ghost in the face.

...Sorry again for the length of this post.

[ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR]

I agree a lot of the content was forced, but its still a huge improvement.

I just wish they would have explained Shepard being on Earth....If you youtube the LOW EMS Destroy extended cut, destroyed-earth looks even closer to what Shep is laying in. I refuse to believe he is still on the Citadel, it doesn't make sense.