4048 réponses à ce sujet

[Journeyman313]

we deserve a better ending whose with me, lets take back ME 3, EC didn't complete the mission people remember we wanted a different ending to begin with

[xLeth]

I was so happy when I saw I get a "refusal" ... it didn't last long

[krinst]

Can't overstate how happy I was with the Extended Cut.
Thank you, Bioware!
<3

[69_Gio_69]

I also posted this earlier but there weren't much replies. So I try it again here:

Summary:
The problem: Very many cycles ago there was a race who thought that synthetics and organics will always end in conflict. This conflict would end up causing the annihilation of all organics. "Organics need synthetics to improve their own excistence, but those improvement have limits. To exceed those limits synthethics must be allowed to evolve. They must by definition surpass their creators. The result is conflict, destruction, chaos".
The solution: This race made an AI (the catalyst) to help find a solution for this problem. The AI had to oversee the relationship between Synthetics and Organics, and concluded that it will always end in conflict. The AI needed to find a new solution. Its solution was the reaper. A form of synthesis where all advanced life (both synthetic and organic) would be harvested and preserved before they are forever lost by conflict. The AI performed his solution and his creators where turned, against their will, into the first true reaper.
This solution worked for many cycles. But throughout the cycles a weapon was made to stop the reaper threat: 'the crucible'. The current cycle succeeded in completing the crucible and only needed to activate the weapon to end the war. To active the crucible the catalyst was needed. Commander Shepard learns that the citadel is the catalyst and ultimately succeeds, in reaching it (confrontation with the VI).
Because commander Shepard is the first organic to ever reach the catalyst the current solution of the VI won't work anymore (don't quite onderstand why though, but variables change). But, there is still hope. The crucible changed the catalyst and created new possibilities (destroy, control, synthesis) (also don't understand how). Except the VI can't make those possiblities reality, only Shepard can. Then it is up to shepard to choose one of the new solutions, or refuse them and die fighting the reapers.

Catalyst: An AI created by a race many cycles ago. Is the embodyment of all reapers, and controls them. Was created to bring balance and find a solution for the never ending conflict between organics and syntethics.

Reapers: First they were only a syntethic representation of the creators (race that made the VI). The VI gave them a function: harvesting all life to preserve before they are lost by conflict. First reaper was made of the creators of the VI. Are like fire, only execute their function, but have no intension for conlict (weird).

Crucible: Noting more then a power source. But in combination with the citadel and relays can send tremendous amounts of energy through the whole galaxy. The crucible also changes the catalyst and causes new solutions (destroy, synthesis, control).

Destroy option: Reapers will be destroyed, but the crucible won't discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted (also Shepard, partly). (Anderson choice)
Control: Shepard gets control over all reapers. Corporeal form will be dissolved, but thoughts and memories continue. Won't be organic anymore. TIM couldn't do this because he was already indoctrinated, but Shepard is free so he has the power to control. (TIM choice)
Synthesis: Adds Shepards energy to the crucible. The essence of Shepard will be broken down and then dispersed. Will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthethics and synthetics will understand organics (why?). The VI tried to do this in the past but did not succeed. It couldn't be forced (implying he forced others in the past), but shepard is different, he is ready and may choose it. (Catalyst choice/ Saren?)
Refusal: Will continue the cycle. (which means that the variables didn't change and the solution still works?)

If you believe what the VI says then all options end in the death of shepard (Partly synthetic, Corporeal death, Dissolve).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My view:
- VI (Catalyst) is synthetic himself. Therefore he is his own prove his logic is flawed.
- The crucible gives new and better solutions then the current one. Why does the VI want to destroy it then? If you think about it he is a really dumb VI. He has searched for many cycles looking for a solution. And all this time he was holding back the ultimate solution.
- How did the VI turn his creators into te first real reaper, against their will? Was it by brute force or through deception? One thing stands: the VI can do anything for his solution even 'kill' his creators. (maybe more will be explained in the new DLC)
- How does the crucible change the VI and give new solutions?
- How will synthetics, in the synthesis option, understand organics better if the matrix of all organics is altered. 1.The synthethics don't change, only the organics will. 2.Organics don't even excist anymore (maybe that's why the VI finds this the best option?).
- How can the VI conclude that, because of Shepard standing before him, his solution wont work anymore? (Why is this variable so important?)
- Why does the cycle continue when Shepard refuses? The VI clearly states that the variables have changed. Therefore the VI can't possibly know if the cycle will continue.
- How have the reapers tried synthesis in the past and why is Shepard different and ready?
- Why does the VI look like the boy in you dreams? It's not the same as with the Geth mission as man hisy stated. Shepard was in a virtual world in that situation. His physical body wasn't present so he couldn't use his senses. That's why the Geth needed a reality that his brain could comprehend. In this situation his physical body, and thus his senses are all there so he could just see what the VI actualy looks like. The only reason to use the boy (especially the boy) is to manipulate him.
- Why in the last dream do you see yourself hugging the kid and then catching fire?
- How does your EMS help you survive in the destroy ending?
- Last I found it really frustrating to see the normandy fly of with your teammates, while Harbinger in the background is just looking (he even follows the normandy with his 6 yellow eyes). And no, he isn't shooting anything at that moment so he isn't busy with tanks and other soldiers. (, 1:50).

[cannedcream]

Journeyman313 wrote...

we deserve a better ending whose with me, lets take back ME 3, EC didn't complete the mission people remember we wanted a different ending to begin with

No.

What we got was a damn good compromise between BW keeping the ending they wanted, and the closure that a large majority of the "Take Back ME3" fans wanted.

There are very few other companies that would have given us what BW did.

Seriously, don't make us look like ungrateful brats.

[SCJ90]

I still think that BW should have done something else with the ending for sure, and nothing will ever change my mind on that, BUT

The EC was a good call, even if it only was cinematic it was a hugh part that was missing from the original game. Now it kind of feels like a whole product. I even thought some parts of the EC where GREAT and really gave something extra.


Now I might even buy more BW products but no more DLC just let the series die in peace dammit, And I still hope that a hugh BW trollface will come up and say GOT YOU IT IS THE REAL DEAL AND WE TROLLED YOU GOOD! Buuuuut it is not going to happen

[AmstradHero]

The Jazzz Man wrote...

This DLC was stupendus!
They only did three things,
1. Edited the dialogue in the ending so it made more sence and added more detail to the catalyst.
2. Added the option to not take the original three options, and to make the cycle continue.
3. Added a extra cutscene after you make your choice so you can see how your choices you made throughout the game affected the galaxy.

(The only thing about this is that if you wish to see the different cutscene's for the different Paragon/Renegade choices you have to go through the tedious quarter of an hour from when you get hit by Harbinger)

I agree. It is utterly stupendous that they thought these completely superficial changes would fix the fundamental problems of the ending. What's even more stupendous is that so many people appear to be lacking the intelligence to recognise that almost all of the original failings are still there, and that they added more in this EC.

Apparently all you need is an epilogue slideshow and you are masters of writing again.

Anyone who is happy with this alternative simply lacks imaginate or the ability for logical reasoned thought to identify the flaws of the EC without someone telling them why it's awful. All the praise is doing is condoning shallow writing.

[Uncle Jo]

3DandBeyond wrote...


Synthesis and Control are also the most "child-like" choices.  I don't mean people are childish for choosing them.  I mean I see them as being choices where people just say they can't do things on their own and need the reapers and or a DNA change to perfection to help them accomplish anything.  People are too stupid to learn and do anything on their own.

Control is still Shepard as god and now the reapers are the galaxy's cops and fix it crew, because people will never learn how to do this stuff themselves.  I can conceive of exactly no one other than TIM that would love this idea in the ME galaxy.  The reapers have people goo in them, so some lady might wonder if a reaper that's cleaning the streets has the goo of her family inside it.

Synthesis is perfection through tech, because people seek perfection through tech.  They do?  That's news to me.  Perfection first off is an unreal goal, but striving to be better actually helps learning and helps in the growth of the soul and the person.  No soul-replace by tech.  And in what reality do people seek perfection through tech?  Even so, they might like augmentation or implants but a re-organization of their DNA (still there), I don't think so.  There are whole groups in ME that resist even implants as it is, so forcing this upon them, well that's rape.  The star kid say it can't be forced, but since Shepard's there it's now ok-because it's ok for Shepard to force it on trillions of people. 

Destroy, well the only thing that happened there is it's now more clear that it's genocide.  EDI is obviously dead.  The geth aren't shown in any after-slides so guess they died too.  Selfish Shepard-goes through life fat and happy and one day decides to wipe out billions of people for no good reason.  Stay in your rubble pile, you jerk.  Hero, my eye.  Writers treat heroes with a little respect.  You can't be one because they left you lying in a pile of rubble.

Reject is for all us rejects.  That's what it means.  Shepard was dumb and couldn't make one of those smart choices so tough luck, don't deserve anything.  Say your piece and just die and take all your friends with you.

They've undermined Destroy because otherwise no one would choose synthesis or control. And the reason they gave is absolutely ridiculous (the Crucible can't target, but just in case of destroy. With the blue ending you can't control the Geth or EDI, although they were upgraded with Reaper tech, though).

Control still fits thematically in the game (the badass ending, after you spent the whole three games told and showed that control can only end bad, i.e indoctrinated) although low EMS should have lead to a control failure and Shep ending indoctrinated. But no.

Don't wanna talk about synthesis. All about it was said and the EC neither fix how it works nor made the outcome better. It's still space magic, forced, disgusting and always what the Reapers wanted to do. The brat said it explicitely this time. Cooperate with the Reapers, my *ss...

I'll never forgive them the deus ex machina, transforming the Reapers into mindless puppets and the forced hatred of synthetics.

But I'm happy with the reject ending. I reject the brat, his logic, his choices and the writer who came up with this stupid idea... Let it burn...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 28 juin 2012 - 09:11 .

[jgibson14352]

SCJ90 wrote...

I still think that BW should have done something else with the ending for sure, and nothing will ever change my mind on that, BUT

The EC was a good call, even if it only was cinematic it was a hugh part that was missing from the original game. Now it kind of feels like a whole product. I even thought some parts of the EC where GREAT and really gave something extra.


Now I might even buy more BW products but no more DLC just let the series die in peace dammit, And I still hope that a hugh BW trollface will come up and say GOT YOU IT IS THE REAL DEAL AND WE TROLLED YOU GOOD! Buuuuut it is not going to happen

amen.
Mass Effect by no means died in peace, but in a massive conflict between the writers and the fans.
the writers created us and we rebelled when they took us in a direction we didnt want to go. guess they may have been right about that part of the ending.

Modifié par jgibson14352, 28 juin 2012 - 09:07 .

[Qutayba]

BioWare decided to go after fixing what I think was the biggest flaw in the ending, which was the sense of despair and meaninglessness. I think there are many, many other flaws in the game, which I probably would have overlooked if not for the ending and which they did not even attempt to address. To be realistic, I don't think they could, given time and resources. They can't dwell on this forever.

I think they did a reasonably good job of making the ending feel less empty. Most important for me is the fact that BioWare listened to its fans and offered this olive branch. I wish the game had not had these flaws to begin with, but I'm willing to take the olive branch and hope BioWare's next effort will steer clear of whatever problems in the design process caused the weaknesses of ME3 (my guess: not enough development time and peer review).

[3DandBeyond]

Qutayba wrote...

BioWare decided to go after fixing what I think was the biggest flaw in the ending, which was the sense of despair and meaninglessness. I think there are many, many other flaws in the game, which I probably would have overlooked if not for the ending and which they did not even attempt to address. To be realistic, I don't think they could, given time and resources. They can't dwell on this forever.

I think they did a reasonably good job of making the ending feel less empty. Most important for me is the fact that BioWare listened to its fans and offered this olive branch. I wish the game had not had these flaws to begin with, but I'm willing to take the olive branch and hope BioWare's next effort will steer clear of whatever problems in the design process caused the weaknesses of ME3 (my guess: not enough development time and peer review).

Yes, for me they replaced the emptiness with complete despair.  Hated the first, loathe this version.

[sdinc009]

cannedcream wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

we deserve a better ending whose with me, lets take back ME 3, EC didn't complete the mission people remember we wanted a different ending to begin with

No.

What we got was a damn good compromise between BW keeping the ending they wanted, and the closure that a large majority of the "Take Back ME3" fans wanted.

There are very few other companies that would have given us what BW did.

Seriously, don't make us look like ungrateful brats.

Well, sort of incorrect if you recall Bethesda fixing Fallout 3 with the Broken Steel DLC and that outcry was way smaller than this. Changing an ending is nothing new and has been done across all mediums. And this wasn't really a compromise per se, more Bioware trying to save face after a huge public controversy exploded from their fans. It's true that what the broken ending needed was to be fixed not clarified, but the EC DLC is what we were given and it at least fixes much of the major plot holes and provides a fair amount of resolution that was completely lacking in the original. Plus, the added ability to, tell the "WORST CHARACTER EVER" to go screw himself Shepards gonna do things his/her way, is a great option that is short, simple and utilizes a unused Liara plot line. A true happy ending would have been great, but this is what we got. IT's not perfect and still has several issues, but utimately the EC DLC at least repairs the ending enough to recover the game as a whole. Over all I'd say working with what they had (cough cough Starkid cough pretty colored boom booms) job well done. ME 3 is playable again!

[Mojenator12345]

Pig with lipstick looks slightly better than before. But is still a pig.

Nice of them to do something about the ending, but seems like a lot of time/money/resources to invest in something that does so little to fix the problems. Retconning badly written parts to try to make them make sense turns out not to work so well. Who'd have thunk it...

[jgibson14352]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Qutayba wrote...

BioWare decided to go after fixing what I think was the biggest flaw in the ending, which was the sense of despair and meaninglessness. I think there are many, many other flaws in the game, which I probably would have overlooked if not for the ending and which they did not even attempt to address. To be realistic, I don't think they could, given time and resources. They can't dwell on this forever.

I think they did a reasonably good job of making the ending feel less empty. Most important for me is the fact that BioWare listened to its fans and offered this olive branch. I wish the game had not had these flaws to begin with, but I'm willing to take the olive branch and hope BioWare's next effort will steer clear of whatever problems in the design process caused the weaknesses of ME3 (my guess: not enough development time and peer review).

Yes, for me they replaced the emptiness with complete despair.  Hated the first, loathe this version.

the same goes for me as well, but i loved this series soo much that i still have hope theyll listen to the newest feedback, even in light of this HORRIBLE news here

[Qutayba]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Yes, for me they replaced the emptiness with complete despair.  Hated the first, loathe this version.

I'd agree they didn't fix the philosophical fallacies set up by the Catalyst, simply explained them in more detail.  But they set themselves the goal of not actually changing the plot so that people who liked the endings as is wouldn't be upset.  I also appreciate that they didn't completely rule out IT-lite, that is, that the Anderson and TIM dialogue is all in Shep's head.

We're not going to get any more ending material, so they flaws will just have to stay flaws.  They cheated me, and they brought me flowers picked from the back yard to make up.  I would have preferred a new car, chocolate, or a sixpack, but I'll go ahead and accept the flowers and forgive the old lunk BioWare.  But my eyes will be watching like a hawk.

[Jassu1979]

Well, after having seen the new versions of the endings, my verdict pretty much boils down to this:

They are a HUGE improvement compared to the original ending, and it's clear that they spent a lot of effort in crafting these.

However, they're still thematically inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy, and no amount of additional cut scenes can fix that.

It's a shame that Drew Karpyshyn left for another project, and that Mac Walters saw no other way to wrap the series up than to employ a colossal McGuffin/Deus Ex Machina in the form of the Crucible/Catalyst. This greatly reduced the quality of the story, and ultimately led to a conclusion that seemed quite out of place in the Mass Effect universe.

Bottom Line: The EC is *not* what most people involved in the "Retake"-movement asked for, nor is it *much* of a compromise. (The inclusion of a "Refuse"-option comes closest to that - but given how it plays out, it really seems more like a low blow than a peace offering.)

I still do not share Mac Walter's enthusiasm for these endings, and I never will. They run contrary to too many narrative strands and thematic lines from the previous games, and - all things considered - are still quite revolting once you think them through. But I can live with them, and perhaps I can even ignore them sufficiently to be able to enjoy the ME universe again. Before, they were like a festering wound that poisoned my whole gaming experience of the series.

[mizark3]

To be put simply the "Kid" is still in the game so I do not feel satisfied. At this Point I am burnt out and do not care about Bioware or Mass Effect anymore. ME1&2 Will still be remembered and replayed but I cannot stand ME3. I do not blame Bioware however since they had less time to make a larger game. EC felt like if it was in the base game then it was fine. However, since it was on top of the base to fix it I felt like it wasn't enough. I am never buying another Bioware game unless I can get the game and all of its respective DLC for under 30 dollars. Sorry Bioware, but your saving grace was not enough to keep this fan. This is all a rambling mess that I honestly do not care if anyone reads, I just need to type this.

[gao gao]

the extended ending sucks, bioware sucks, gaming in 2012 sucks.

casey hudson, you suck, too.

[Caenis]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...

Bone3ater wrote...

Btw, does somebody know if the scene where shepard takes a sharp breath in, is only for the Destroy choice? Because I didn't see it in Synthesis Makes sense though, the Catalyst said your DNA is used to make Synthesis possible, so of course, Shep's dead. Bummer

But I'm not 100% sure, so if someone could enlighten me...

It's only for destroy. And for Synthesis (the most nonsensical and repulsive one) you pretty much die. Thanks to space magic you're transformed into small green atoms which combine with every single living being in the galaxy, turning them into cyborgs. On the other hand, you can go out with a Banshee or Brute now...

Synthesis and Control are also the most "child-like" choices.  I don't mean people are childish for choosing them.  I mean I see them as being choices where people just say they can't do things on their own and need the reapers and or a DNA change to perfection to help them accomplish anything.  People are too stupid to learn and do anything on their own.

I think so . I think humanity is both beautiful but terribly flawed because we walk a line between the primal/animal world and the conscious world. We are so limited in our ability to communicate through language, and the way we see the world as we look through filtered lenses. We seek perfection by trying to extend our lives, suppress cravings, and are manipulated by those cravings. We view the world through a filter, and our guided by a combination of subconscious actions and consious actions....but none of us see the world for what it really is. Our eyes interpret light and colour, our brain makes up an idea of what it looks like, what we see is just a map of the world, it's not the real world.  For all we know the world really does look like a bunch of 1's and 0's! We are at a crucial point in our life where we fantasize through science and the potential of it. And while right now the idea of implants and 'cyborgs' etc. might seem extreme, it is a very real possibility for many. Especially now when we want things to be faster, more efficient, and we are trying to create Artifical Intelligence that can do the jobs we can't. They already have a hand that can train your hand to play an instrument, and contacts that let you see like the Terminator, robotic legs to help people who can't walk, walk. And more. We are headed in a direction where it is very possible that the ultimate perfection for a civilization looking for perfection through Technology would see Synthesis as the ultimate perfection. The only flaw is it's a human concept and we have limited knowledge and understanding for why the universe works the way it does, and what manipulating those things will do, and if it will occur naturally and what a very advanced human being would be like---if we made it that far. 200,000 years...the dinosaurs lived longer, way longer than that and they were wiped out with a meteorite...As far as we know they didn't have nucleur weapons the way we do! 

But as deep as this story was for me in the sense it played with some ideas and things I have wondered about. I wonder if it was really ever meant to be that deep to Bioware haha. I think they were just playing with a creative concept and seeing where it went. It really has a lot of elements of mythology. I mean how many times have we heard that story, "God lost hope for man and destroyed them, and decided to start all over again." who is to say Shepard after being "God" for thousands of years, won't become like the "Star child" and come to the same conclusion. The story where those who were created try to surpass their "Creators". To me this is a story I've heard time and time again told with Sci Fi window dressing. Of course who is to say that Synthesis really is true perfection, we don't know, but we're currently in an era where there are people who do see that as one path of many which offer peace and happiness. It's so interesting though to watch something and totally connect with it and then realize that not everyone interpreted it or even saw it the same way!  That's one cool thing about humanity. A million people can look at a single picture and come up with a million different views, I think Edi or Legion may have commented on that at some point in the game. But it's true.

[LittleBlueChildrenNow]

TullyAckland wrote...

• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

And do you think it could be possible to fullfill that hope? I mean with some kind of DLC or short film where we can see how she/he meet again with his/her LI and team. I don't know.. See how Shepard enjoys at least her/his life with the LI in peace and happiness...

Shepard deserves that. (and players too )

[joshko]

Just finished it.
On the ending over all it's not the direction I would have taken had I been the one in charge of the ME story, but I was not.
That being said, I really enjoyed the EC! I think it was a fantastic compromise on BW's part and am very grateful they did it.
Thank you very much!

[Cancer Puppet]

For me, the EC took the endings from completely atrocious to mildly disappointing. A marked improvement, mind you, just really lacking the punch that the game had the potential for.

I haven't been frequenting the bsn much of late, and the time I have spent here has been short, but I haven't seen any BW employees insulting anyone who really hates the EC so I guess that's an improvement too.

I watched all the new endings on Youtube and haven't downloaded it. Still undecided on whether or not I'll be purchasing any DLC. ME2 pre-ending style DLC isn't likely to get my money because I already know how the game ends and anything that gets put out is going to have to be phenomenal. It also won't be an automatic buy. I hope whoever is responsible for the original ending realizes their mistake and doesn't repeat it...

Modifié par Cancer Puppet, 28 juin 2012 - 10:12 .