4048 réponses à ce sujet

[Karait]

I was one of those people who couldn't get any sleep after their first playthrough, but I have reluctantly decided to see the x-cut and while imho they are acceptable at the very most, I am willing to welcome BioWare to my respected developers' list, if only for old times' sake.

The dialogue between Shepard and the Catalyst is vastly improved, additional cinematics are nice, the slideshow is a bit meh but still a positive. BioWare have basically done enough to give them a vote of confidence.

I was only emotionally invested in the destroy ending - only viable choice for my Shepard - and I would have been fully satisfied had they given me an opportunity to go out there and feel like a hero. I'd be ready to pay a lot of money for a post-ending DLC where Shepard gets reunited with his squad and love interest and gets to be the ultimate hero one more time. I'd seriously consider this had I been EA or BioWare as I'm sure they've won a lot of fans back with x-cut and those fans would pay good cash to see Shepard's triumphant return. No artistic integrity compromised here either.

Extended cut's weakest spot are definately the cheesy slideshow comments, with control especially poor. What's more worrying is that compared to BioWare's previous games the writing was uncharacteristically poor in Mass Effect 3. I hope this is not some new trend for their games. The plotholes are of course still there but with an overall better ending experience they are easier to overlook.

All in all, BioWare have won me back as their fan and I will very likely buy ME3 downloadable content. In the very unlikely scenario that one of those DLCs were to be a post-ending one with Shepards' glorious return after destroy I'd go back to my old ways of pre-ordering all BW stuff in a heartbeat.

[Thore2k10]

yep, dialogue with the starchild improved, but its logic is still meh... good thing is, i can play ME again without thinking about the ending all the time!

just one question: would it really be soooo game destroying to have the possibility of a simple plain good old fashioned happy ending? i know, that its too late now to change anything about it, but i think if you kept it simple from the very beginning there would never have been such a backlash in these forums (and all over the world).

no special motivation behind the reapers which had to be explained by someone weve never met before and we didnt care about. just beings that wanted more power... or had a weird way of reproduction

thanks for the EC, overall it really improved the ending!

[deaddecoy]

I'm still somewhat disappointed in the extended cut, but it met my expectations (which were low to begin with). On the positive side, the extended cut shows what happens afterwards. On the negative side, it still uses a deus ex story mechanic to magic away the bad guy. This wouldn't be such a problem if 1) the underlying motivations of the bad guy weren't so horribly dumb, 2) the solution was introduced earlier in the series (around say me2), and 3) it didn't fly in the face of the major themes being setup by the entire series: that is, the acceptance and cooperation of many different communities is a good thing.

A lot of these problems could have been fixed if they retconned starbrat. This would have left the reapers as some mysterious destructive force and prevented the starbrat from setting up a poorly structured strawman argument. As it is, I think rejecting the starbrat's options provides the most honest, albeit depressing ending. Though the starbrat does get somewhat petulant if you disagree with him. He could call off the reapers, but runs off to sulk while the other races are destroyed. There may be some weak argument that says he's prevented from doing so, but I call bs on that. Starbrat can do whatever the writers enable him to do.

[Reever]

TullyAckland wrote...

• You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

I guess Liara sometimes behaves like you LI interest as well

[ScorpSt]

I feel like, had these been the endings released with the game, I would be at least somewhat satisfied. It's just that, after all the outrage over the endings, and all the feedback BioWare received, I expected more.

For my Shepard, the refuse option was the most in character for her, and it sucks that that lead to such a depressing finale (though not having to sit through that "Stargazer" almost makes it worth it).

Ultimately, while I can appreciate the game a bit more now, I have to write my own ending to my Shepard's story.

[Phcarvalho]

Just a question about the extended cut..
the 4 end ( all races destroyed), was in the previous ending or they added now?

[TwilightChamp]

Thanks Bioware.

The extended cut was much, much better. The extra dialogue and cuts scenes really did help with both the storytelling and emotional investment. I particularly enjoyed the implication in synthesis that this choice restores sentience to the Reaper minions with that one moment of a Husk coming back to its senses.

That idea of restoration through synthesis was beautiful and I'm glad you were able to bring it forth with the new content.

[Deltakarma]

I thought it was good, I picked Destroy and it made sense. I liked it till the breathing part... I wanted to see some kind of reunion or Hackett going "We found him, we found Shepard. He is barely alive, taking him back to blah blah blah blah" and so on. Would have put my mind at ease. Also, the simply deny the Catalyst, was by FAR the most logical thing you would see besides some beam shooting up. Everyone may have died, but still, now everyone knows what to expect.

[My nick rules]

I guess my expectations were too high, but I'm disappointed. I really, really, really believed that the Indoctrination Theory was correct. I really did. It would have been by far the best solution, not only explaining away the plot holes, but making them an integrated part of the story. The Dark Energy theory also had a lot going for it, so I was kinda hoping for some combination between the two. But ah, well.

At least the ending makes a lot more sense now. Especially, you don't have to be so agonized by the destruction of the Mass Relays.

But, I have to say, there are still a lot of things that simply don't make sense without IT. The trees at the ground in front of the beam for example, or the fact that Anderson managed to get to the control room before Shepard, even though he came up after him, and claims to have come up in another corridor, while there seems to be no other way to the control room etc, etc.

Now when I think about it, the EC actually adds more plot holes than the original endings had, suppose that IT holds true. But far to much effort is being put into explaining away IT as false for it to have been intended...

All in all: Makes more sense than the original ending taken at face value, but far less than IT (although there are admittedly some problems with the IT as well, such as the lack of a scene where the Reapers are defeated in the "real" world etc.).

BioWare, I am disappointed in you. Such an amazing game series as Mass Effect deserves a better ending than this.

Well, I'd better go back to waiting eagerly for Half Life 3. Let's hope that VALVe can keep up the high standard for their number three.

[Maz6687]

So I sat through the EC with two different profiles. In one I cured the genophage, and the other, I sabotaged it. I was expecting to have some sort of difference in the slides.

In my sabotaged version they STILL showed a krogan couple with a baby! This version of the krogan's fate should not be the same as the cured genophage scenario.

Having Wrex and Eve dead with Wreav in charge should NOT have a happy ending with the assumption of the krogans repopulating and restoring their home world.

Whatever.

[AloraKast]

If you have some time on your hands, here is some incredible food for thought; both posts are excellent imho and most definitely worth the read:

http://social.biowar...86/165#12809193

http://social.biowar...86/167#12833282

Of course, right along with the excellent and stimulating discussion going on in that thread in general.

Enjoy!

[CuseGirl]

Phcarvalho wrote...

Just a question about the extended cut..
the 4 end ( all races destroyed), was in the previous ending or they added now?

The 4th ending, REFUSAL, is new, not from the original version

[insomniak9]

Apparently refusal was in the original ending, but it wasn't explained. You just got a Critical Mission Failure.

That's how the BW-groupies explain it away, anyway...

[Gernbuster]

insomniak9 wrote...

Apparently refusal was in the original ending, but it wasn't explained. You just got a Critical Mission Failure.

That's how the BW-groupies explain it away, anyway...

Do you really like 10 mins of cinematics, where you see everyone dying? Your LI, your friends, the species of the galaxy. I think I would be completly depressed afterwards.

[DiegoProgMetal]

I dont know if this question (not exactly a question) has been raised before, but if the Normandy crew knew Anderson died before lifting off the jungle planet, it means someone went to the Citadel after the "explosion", found Anderson's body, and somehow sent the info to the crew, or at least Traynor managed to "capture" the message. And it also means the same person that found Anderson, did not find Shepard, which is alive and breathing in my game.

So... where is Shepard?

And, I did not see the "Control" ending, but if both "Destroy" and "Synthesis" affect all synthetic life (or even organic life, depending on ems or which one you chose), wouldn't Control do the same? I mean, with a low ems, it would probably make everyone indoctrinated, and simply tools to Shepard's (or what is left of him) will, and even with high ems (in my case about 9k), it should at least "control" all the synthetics, since "Destroy" destroyed all of them.

Modifié par DiegoProgMetal, 29 juin 2012 - 12:56 .

[Journeyman313]

69_Gio_69 wrote...

I also posted this earlier but there weren't much replies. So I try it again here:

Summary:
The problem: Very many cycles ago there was a race who thought that synthetics and organics will always end in conflict. This conflict would end up causing the annihilation of all organics. "Organics need synthetics to improve their own excistence, but those improvement have limits. To exceed those limits synthethics must be allowed to evolve. They must by definition surpass their creators. The result is conflict, destruction, chaos".
The solution: This race made an AI (the catalyst) to help find a solution for this problem. The AI had to oversee the relationship between Synthetics and Organics, and concluded that it will always end in conflict. The AI needed to find a new solution. Its solution was the reaper. A form of synthesis where all advanced life (both synthetic and organic) would be harvested and preserved before they are forever lost by conflict. The AI performed his solution and his creators where turned, against their will, into the first true reaper.
This solution worked for many cycles. But throughout the cycles a weapon was made to stop the reaper threat: 'the crucible'. The current cycle succeeded in completing the crucible and only needed to activate the weapon to end the war. To active the crucible the catalyst was needed. Commander Shepard learns that the citadel is the catalyst and ultimately succeeds, in reaching it (confrontation with the VI).
Because commander Shepard is the first organic to ever reach the catalyst the current solution of the VI won't work anymore (don't quite onderstand why though, but variables change). But, there is still hope. The crucible changed the catalyst and created new possibilities (destroy, control, synthesis) (also don't understand how). Except the VI can't make those possiblities reality, only Shepard can. Then it is up to shepard to choose one of the new solutions, or refuse them and die fighting the reapers.

Catalyst: An AI created by a race many cycles ago. Is the embodyment of all reapers, and controls them. Was created to bring balance and find a solution for the never ending conflict between organics and syntethics.

Reapers: First they were only a syntethic representation of the creators (race that made the VI). The VI gave them a function: harvesting all life to preserve before they are lost by conflict. First reaper was made of the creators of the VI. Are like fire, only execute their function, but have no intension for conlict (weird).

Crucible: Noting more then a power source. But in combination with the citadel and relays can send tremendous amounts of energy through the whole galaxy. The crucible also changes the catalyst and causes new solutions (destroy, synthesis, control).

Destroy option: Reapers will be destroyed, but the crucible won't discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted (also Shepard, partly). (Anderson choice)
Control: Shepard gets control over all reapers. Corporeal form will be dissolved, but thoughts and memories continue. Won't be organic anymore. TIM couldn't do this because he was already indoctrinated, but Shepard is free so he has the power to control. (TIM choice)
Synthesis: Adds Shepards energy to the crucible. The essence of Shepard will be broken down and then dispersed. Will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthethics and synthetics will understand organics (why?). The VI tried to do this in the past but did not succeed. It couldn't be forced (implying he forced others in the past), but shepard is different, he is ready and may choose it. (Catalyst choice/ Saren?)
Refusal: Will continue the cycle. (which means that the variables didn't change and the solution still works?)

If you believe what the VI says then all options end in the death of shepard (Partly synthetic, Corporeal death, Dissolve).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My view:
- VI (Catalyst) is synthetic himself. Therefore he is his own prove his logic is flawed.
- The crucible gives new and better solutions then the current one. Why does the VI want to destroy it then? If you think about it he is a really dumb VI. He has searched for many cycles looking for a solution. And all this time he was holding back the ultimate solution.
- How did the VI turn his creators into te first real reaper, against their will? Was it by brute force or through deception? One thing stands: the VI can do anything for his solution even 'kill' his creators. (maybe more will be explained in the new DLC)
- How does the crucible change the VI and give new solutions?
- How will synthetics, in the synthesis option, understand organics better if the matrix of all organics is altered. 1.The synthethics don't change, only the organics will. 2.Organics don't even excist anymore (maybe that's why the VI finds this the best option?).
- How can the VI conclude that, because of Shepard standing before him, his solution wont work anymore? (Why is this variable so important?)
- Why does the cycle continue when Shepard refuses? The VI clearly states that the variables have changed. Therefore the VI can't possibly know if the cycle will continue.
- How have the reapers tried synthesis in the past and why is Shepard different and ready?
- Why does the VI look like the boy in you dreams? It's not the same as with the Geth mission as man hisy stated. Shepard was in a virtual world in that situation. His physical body wasn't present so he couldn't use his senses. That's why the Geth needed a reality that his brain could comprehend. In this situation his physical body, and thus his senses are all there so he could just see what the VI actualy looks like. The only reason to use the boy (especially the boy) is to manipulate him.
- Why in the last dream do you see yourself hugging the kid and then catching fire?
- How does your EMS help you survive in the destroy ending?
- Last I found it really frustrating to see the normandy fly of with your teammates, while Harbinger in the background is just looking (he even follows the normandy with his 6 yellow eyes). And no, he isn't shooting anything at that moment so he isn't busy with tanks and other soldiers. (, 1:50).

thank you the ending isn't logicalwhy is so many people happy whats there to be happy about the game abandoned its genre. Mass effect has always been explainable until now think about that  

[Journeyman313]

[quote]cannedcream wrote...

[quote]Journeyman313 wrote...

we deserve a better ending whose with me, lets take back ME 3, EC didn't complete the mission people remember we wanted a different ending to begin with [/quote]

No.

What we got was a damn good compromise between BW keeping the ending they wanted, and the closure that a large majority of the "Take Back ME3" fans wanted.

There are very few other companies that would have given us what BW did.

Seriously, don't make us look like ungrateful brats.[/qoute]                                                                                   how did we get anything out of EC what the ending remained the same I dont even know if my shep is alive there is still no personalized ending our choices still dont matter the only i got was the sorriest explanation i have ever seen it was so far fetched all u wanted was explanation of the original terrible ending yah im sure it was a " majority "

Modifié par Journeyman313, 29 juin 2012 - 01:11 .

[Enjou]

The new endings weren't perfect, but I found them satisfying - they actually gave me a measure of closure. I still would have liked to see my decisions affect the endings more, but at least the endings were much more coherent this time. My favorites were the Control and Synthesis endings. The Refusal ending was a nice addition, and the Destroy ending was ok.

[Journeyman313]

[quote]Journeyman313 wrote...

[quote]cannedcream wrote...

[quote]Journeyman313 wrote...

we deserve a better ending whose with me, lets take back ME 3, EC didn't complete the mission people remember we wanted a different ending to begin with [/quote]

No.

What we got was a damn good compromise between BW keeping the ending they wanted, and the closure that a large majority of the "Take Back ME3" fans wanted.

There are very few other companies that would have given us what BW did.

Seriously, don't make us look like ungrateful brats.[/qoute]                                                                            journeyman313 wrote       how did we get anything out of EC what the ending remained the same I dont even know if my shep is alive there is still no personalized ending our choices still dont matter the only i got was the sorriest explanation i have ever seen it was so far fetched all u wanted was explanation of the original terrible ending yah im sure it was a " majority "[/quote]

[Dewitt667]

Post from other thread:

If this was what the endings were suppose to be, then why didn't they put this in originally?

But you get out, what you put in, and they didn't start with the best of material. I will respect them for sticking to their guns.

Tho i'm still not satisfied because if you read the data entries on the various fleets. The space battle cut scenes do not match up with the entries. I say this because you only see one thanix cannon fired other than the reaper and that is the Normandy's. Reading the entries the Reaper should be soiling themselves if not with the first fleet than the second either way Earth orbit should be littered with Reaper Sushi slices.

I still don't like the use of a deus ex machina in a game built around unity/teamwork and sacrifice. The use of the Crucible with it's "Doomsday" style powers cheapens Shepard's(your) pain and sacrifice.

[Eumerin]

On the one hand, the EC fixed the big glaring plot holes (i.e. stuff like "what exactly was the Normandy doing way out in the relay network, and why did it have your team members on board?") from the original ending, and answered the question of "What comes next?"  Because of that, I'm glad that I downloaded it.

Unfortunately, it still doesn't resolve the ultimate problem with the ME3 ending, i.e. the thematic and stylistic whiplash induced pretty much from the moment that you blow up the Destroyer that's guarding the beam in London.  We still have a reference to Harbinger that ultimately means nothing (why does it matter that Harbinger's one of the Reapers that heads off to defend the beam?).  We still have long, drawn out, mind-numbingly dull "stagger along at a snail's pace while nothing happens" sequences from the time that you stand up wounded until you confront the Illusive Man (it feels as Shepard's shuffling takes up about half the time spent during the ending, even though pretty much nothing happens during said shuffling).  We still have the "space flea from nowhere" usually referred to as Ghost Boy.

Or in other words, while the ending has been polished, it still has the flaws that made it a bad ending.  It's just a prettier looking bad ending.

And ultimately, when all is said and done, it's the "space flea from nowhere", and his choices that don't fit with what's come before, that throw everything out of whack.  It doesn't matter how much you pretty up the rest of the ending so long as Ghost Boy and his choices are still there to ruin it.

Whiplash is the problem.  It's a pity that the writers at Bioware can't seem to wrap their heads around this.

[adembroski]

God, I'm torn, really. I feel like the Destroy and Refuse endings both did SOME justice to the series. I'm still disappointed in my choices not really yielding much in terms of event, but it was good to see some logic brought to the ending.

Unfortunately, the fixes in logic do nothing to fix the THEMATIC problems. You still introduced a new main antagonist in the final 10 minutes (oh, wait, now it's the final 30 minutes, I guess that's ok:P), you still abandoned the central themes of the story to this point.

Well, on the plus side, thank God Jeff no longer tries to look out the rear window of the Normandy.

Seriously... I wish more could have been done with the refuse ending, I really wish there was a better way for that turn out, but I'll give 'em credit. I did NOT believe it'd end up as good as it did. I really didn't. I'm not satisfied, but I'm willing to see what comes next.

Just don't screw up DA3, PLEASE?!?!

Bioware: Here's the central problem, even with the Destroy ending (which is most thematically sound given the constraints)- the victory is a hollow victory at the end of the day because it's a PASSIVE victory. I still don't feel like I accomplished anything, but more like the Catalyst shrugged and said "ok, fine, whatever."

If the same thing happened in real life, yeah, I'll take the passive victory... in a video game, I wanna be the hero. In a story, i want my protagonist to be the hero. 

It's kinda like Worf in TNG... always referred to as a great warrior, but he rarely is portrayed that way. He gets his butt handed to him time and time again to prove how awesome the bad guy is, but the mistake they made was never to show how great HE was in the first place, so the effect is lost. You tell us Shepard is a legend... why? He didn't beat the Reapers. The Reapers got bored and went home... or let us puposefully blow them up for whatever reason (apparently self-preservation instinct wasn't part of that "collective intelligence").

Anyways, as I said, this ending is "ok", but only in light of what came before. Please, PLEASE, stick to Hero's Journey. It's what you do well. When you've strayed from it, you've shot yourself in the foot.

Modifié par adembroski, 29 juin 2012 - 02:02 .

[Journeyman313]

id like to ask everyone a question, (sometimes when I play cards with my friends we talk about games in 2010 we couldn't shut up about ME 2s exellent ending) can anyone on this forum have an exciting chat with their friends about ME 3s boring ending really ?

[petroxg]

I think whatever I say is most likely not going to make no difference but I still feel the need to say it anyways.

The extended cut has improved a lot but I am still disappointed and no I will not preorder another Bioware game ever again.

I am actually ok with not changing the 3 option of the ending. But what really pissed me off is if Bioware already going to add additional contents to fill up the gap, is it really too much to ask to have at least just 1 happy ending where the minimum Shepard get to reunite with his crew whether he is communicate with them through reaper form (control option) or he is being rescued and treated (destroy option).

I am still pissed of the ending cuz if that is what they are going to do, might as well not make one at all. ME1-3 is all about having different options with different outcome, what is the god damn point if all finale end up with sad ending for Shepard? Bioware, u even went through the trouble to create a 4th option where reaper wins (which I am also ok with). But WHY can't u just freaking make a god damn HAPPY ENDING!!!!! At least make 1 of the 4 available ending where everyone lives and united again....what is wrong with you?

Movies for example, I have never ever ever seen a movie sell and do well at box office with a sad ending. What makes u think u can pull it off with a game with a sad ending? Obviously Bioware or ME series team don't care much about making money. Oh BTW, many of my friends are all gamers, and they usually go with my recommendation, not what the critic review says. Just saying.

Bottomeline, I will never preorder or buy another Bioware game again. It will have to take a close friend/family passionately recommend me to try another one of your game again plus most ppl who play it gives good review for me to even buy another one of your game. Which means your DA 3 is not gonna get my money unless what I mention above happens. Yea I bought both DA & DA2, as crappy of a review and storyline for DA2, I still prefer DA2 storyline and ending over ME3 ending anyday where is 100% guarentee sad ending for Shepard doesn't matter what u do.

If this post get deleted, oh well I won't be surprise. But at least I get to voice my opinion.

[petroxg]

Journeyman313 wrote...

id like to ask everyone a question, (sometimes when I play cards with my friends we talk about games in 2010 we couldn't shut up about ME 2s exellent ending) can anyone on this forum have an exciting chat with their friends about ME 3s boring ending really ?

Nope, not even close.  Great Question to ask Bioware!