4048 réponses à ce sujet

[StElmo]

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

Modifié par StElmo, 29 juin 2012 - 11:10 .

[Delaney]

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

I think people do realize the madness of the catalyst ... But they don't want to accept that, they suppress that because that would make Control and Synthesis definitely the wrong choice ... (Which they are ... but that's only my opinion)

[Holy shnikeys]

Delaney wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

I think people do realize the madness of the catalyst ... But they don't want to accept that, they suppress that because that would make Control and Synthesis definitely the wrong choice ... (Which they are ... but that's only my opinion)

Even if i accept he is iinsane, i think i should be given an option to use my awesome powers of diplomacy to convince him he is an idiot.  Like a Renegade option of "Look out the window.  See that Geth ship? Alright. Now look a little to the left, you see that? Thats an organic ship.  They arent killing each other.  Now shoot yourself in the head like every other bad guy."

Saren and the Illusive Man were obviously wrong, and i convinced them of their wrongness and they killed themselves.  The Catalyst should follow their example.

Modifié par Holy shnikeys, 29 juin 2012 - 11:48 .

[Grammarye]

Holy shnikeys wrote...

My biggest problem with the original endings was not the "lack of closure", or "lack of a happy ending."  My biggest problem is that the endings made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.  The EC does nothing to fix this.  Yeah, it adds extended conversation sequences with the Catalyst.  But even then it still does not make sense.  The whole idea of "Synthetics will always destroy Organics, so i use Synthetics to destroy you before that happens," idea still does not sit right with me.  The only time in the present cycle that Organics are in direct conflict with Synthetics is:
1. Geth defending themselves, FREEDOM
2. Reapers control Geth and make them fight Organics.

So..... does the Catalyst cause the problems that he supposedly solves? Thatd be like a mechanic intentionally breaking your engine so you have to get it repaired every fifity thousand years, and by engine i mean galaxy and by repaired i mean destory everything that moves.  The EC does nothing to fill this GIANT PLOT HOLE, through the games you discover that AIs are not so bad, they are just misunderstood.  EDI saves your life more than once, not to mention Legion.  AND THE GETH LET THE QUARIANS BACK ON THEIR HOMEWORLD!  My, if that doesnt scream rampaging Synthetics out to destory all Organic life in the galaxy then i dont know what would.

I appreciate what Bioware did by releasing the extended cut, dont take my ranting the wrong way, i just believe that the logic doesnt work.  I do also enjoy the new fourth ending, even if everyone dies .Shepard gets to tell the Catalyst that his logic doesnt make any sense and that he would rather let everyone go down fighting than commit genocide, became a dictator, or force everyone to "evolve." At least now i get the option for standing up for my beliefs, even if it causes the death... of everyone... and everything ive been fighting for. Hmmmm, not sure how to take that one. Give in and Win, or Fight and lose? i personally choose fight and lose.  The whole William Wallice thing.  I don't know how i feel about the next cycle choosing red, blue, or green, kinda feels like a slap in the face.  

But anyway, If anyone agrees with the Catalyst's logic i suggest you take a trip to Rannoch and see how wrong he is.

Exactly so. The new conversation with the Catalyst actually hints that it's quite, quite insane by organic standards, and the result of a logic error by its creators eons ago (the whole 'they did not approve' line).

What is thus whacked is that for any player who divined this and goes 'you're nuts, the entire evidence of the current galaxy is against you' - they get hit with 'oh look, the next time around, the sensible cycle chose what Bioware told you to do in the first place'.

It goes from being 'hey, congrats, you figured it out just like the Protheans did' to 'look, Casey said you get three options, didn't you hear the first time?' - and it feels like that was the choice so as to avoid the original ending looking stupid next to it.

[Holy shnikeys]

Grammarye wrote...

Holy shnikeys wrote...

My biggest problem with the original endings was not the "lack of closure", or "lack of a happy ending."  My biggest problem is that the endings made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.  The EC does nothing to fix this.  Yeah, it adds extended conversation sequences with the Catalyst.  But even then it still does not make sense.  The whole idea of "Synthetics will always destroy Organics, so i use Synthetics to destroy you before that happens," idea still does not sit right with me.  The only time in the present cycle that Organics are in direct conflict with Synthetics is:
1. Geth defending themselves, FREEDOM
2. Reapers control Geth and make them fight Organics.

So..... does the Catalyst cause the problems that he supposedly solves? Thatd be like a mechanic intentionally breaking your engine so you have to get it repaired every fifity thousand years, and by engine i mean galaxy and by repaired i mean destory everything that moves.  The EC does nothing to fill this GIANT PLOT HOLE, through the games you discover that AIs are not so bad, they are just misunderstood.  EDI saves your life more than once, not to mention Legion.  AND THE GETH LET THE QUARIANS BACK ON THEIR HOMEWORLD!  My, if that doesnt scream rampaging Synthetics out to destory all Organic life in the galaxy then i dont know what would.

I appreciate what Bioware did by releasing the extended cut, dont take my ranting the wrong way, i just believe that the logic doesnt work.  I do also enjoy the new fourth ending, even if everyone dies .Shepard gets to tell the Catalyst that his logic doesnt make any sense and that he would rather let everyone go down fighting than commit genocide, became a dictator, or force everyone to "evolve." At least now i get the option for standing up for my beliefs, even if it causes the death... of everyone... and everything ive been fighting for. Hmmmm, not sure how to take that one. Give in and Win, or Fight and lose? i personally choose fight and lose.  The whole William Wallice thing.  I don't know how i feel about the next cycle choosing red, blue, or green, kinda feels like a slap in the face.  

But anyway, If anyone agrees with the Catalyst's logic i suggest you take a trip to Rannoch and see how wrong he is.

Exactly so. The new conversation with the Catalyst actually hints that it's quite, quite insane by organic standards, and the result of a logic error by its creators eons ago (the whole 'they did not approve' line).

What is thus whacked is that for any player who divined this and goes 'you're nuts, the entire evidence of the current galaxy is against you' - they get hit with 'oh look, the next time around, the sensible cycle chose what Bioware told you to do in the first place'.

It goes from being 'hey, congrats, you figured it out just like the Protheans did' to 'look, Casey said you get three options, didn't you hear the first time?' - and it feels like that was the choice so as to avoid the original ending looking stupid next to it.

Exactly! At first he did not have to justify his actions, it was simply "these are your choices, dont ask why."  Now its like, why would i choose any other ending other than refuse?  But when i choose refuse everyone dies, so the only way to save anyone in the current cycle is to use the Catalyst's insane logic, which physically hurts.

[Delaney]

Holy shnikeys wrote...

Delaney wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

I think people do realize the madness of the catalyst ... But they don't want to accept that, they suppress that because that would make Control and Synthesis definitely the wrong choice ... (Which they are ... but that's only my opinion)

Even if i accept he is iinsane, i think i should be given an option to use my awesome powers of diplomacy to convince him he is an idiot.  Like a Renegade option of "Look out the window.  See that Geth ship? Alright. Now look a little to the left, you see that? Thats an organic ship.  They arent killing each other.  Now shoot yourself in the head like every other bad guy."

Saren and the Illusive Man were obviously wrong, and i convinced them of their wrongness and they killed themselves.  The Catalyst should follow their example.

That's right ... But that's a waaaaay too simple for BW, I think. And too positive. And too ... ähm ... "videogamey" ... You can't convince everyone. You can't get everything. Take what you get or ... DIE! ... Oh, I hate that.

Modifié par Delaney, 29 juin 2012 - 12:06 .

[Holy shnikeys]

Delaney wrote...

Holy shnikeys wrote...

Delaney wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

I think people do realize the madness of the catalyst ... But they don't want to accept that, they suppress that because that would make Control and Synthesis definitely the wrong choice ... (Which they are ... but that's only my opinion)

Even if i accept he is iinsane, i think i should be given an option to use my awesome powers of diplomacy to convince him he is an idiot.  Like a Renegade option of "Look out the window.  See that Geth ship? Alright. Now look a little to the left, you see that? Thats an organic ship.  They arent killing each other.  Now shoot yourself in the head like every other bad guy."

Saren and the Illusive Man were obviously wrong, and i convinced them of their wrongness and they killed themselves.  The Catalyst should follow their example.

That's right ... But that's a waaaaay too simple for BW, I think. And too positive. And too ... ähm ... "videogamey" ... You can't convince everyone. You can't get everything. Take what you get or ... DIE! ... Oh, I hate that.

 
Very true, very true.  My diplomacy could fail(however unlikely that is, Shepard could convince Wrex that he is a Salarian that just ate to many flies), but like a renegade interrupt where i kick him in the shins would have been greatly appreciated.

[dbt-kenny]

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

Yep you are right, I always thought the star kid was a nuts AI. He killed off all of his own creators and in the end went mad of the guilt. As a concept that is good but the way they did the end just so sloopy. They cut so much of the end of the game.

[DonJuan2000]

As I wrote here:

https://www.facebook...379886602030228

Just Finished extended cut Ending. Now the ending is much more coherent and have much more logic. Still miss a little bit a space battle against Harbinger, but i can consider myself satisfied. Few things can be improved, but now is much better. Funny also the new ending, but my one was to destroy reapers: We are already show how geth, IDA and organics can live together.

Portal destroy I understand have some importance. Now organics are free to fully explore the universe, that will almost for sure put them on the same course of ancient machines civilizations and maybe even the creators ones.

In general, new endings are much better now.

[Purebird]

Holy shnikeys wrote...

Delaney wrote...

Holy shnikeys wrote...

Delaney wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

I think people do realize the madness of the catalyst ... But they don't want to accept that, they suppress that because that would make Control and Synthesis definitely the wrong choice ... (Which they are ... but that's only my opinion)

Even if i accept he is iinsane, i think i should be given an option to use my awesome powers of diplomacy to convince him he is an idiot.  Like a Renegade option of "Look out the window.  See that Geth ship? Alright. Now look a little to the left, you see that? Thats an organic ship.  They arent killing each other.  Now shoot yourself in the head like every other bad guy."

Saren and the Illusive Man were obviously wrong, and i convinced them of their wrongness and they killed themselves.  The Catalyst should follow their example.

That's right ... But that's a waaaaay too simple for BW, I think. And too positive. And too ... ähm ... "videogamey" ... You can't convince everyone. You can't get everything. Take what you get or ... DIE! ... Oh, I hate that.

 
Very true, very true.  My diplomacy could fail(however unlikely that is, Shepard could convince Wrex that he is a Salarian that just ate to many flies), but like a renegade interrupt where i kick him in the shins would have been greatly appreciated.

Im so glad that other people feel this way! I was getting so keen for some extended cut goodness where the catalyst issue would be fixed but the internal logic flaw is still here! I literally sat in my seat and said to myself "If the catalyst isn't a logic damaged AI then this literally has to be the worst concept for an ending to any game ive played". I must believe this is true otherwise the whole portrayal of synthetics as being wholesome in the earlier part of me3 is just there for u to smile, nod at then dismiss. A big kick in the nuts for those of us who united the geth and quarians (which is probably a decent 90% of players out there). 

[Nerevar-as]

Holy shnikeys wrote...
 
Very true, very true.  My diplomacy could fail(however unlikely that is, Shepard could convince Wrex that he is a Salarian that just ate to many flies), but like a renegade interrupt where i kick him in the shins would have been greatly appreciated.

Now we can´t even shoot him. Probably the greatest murderer in all fiction and we have to do what it says or let everybody die.

[Journeyman313]

Holy shnikeys wrote...

My biggest problem with the original endings was not the "lack of closure", or "lack of a happy ending."  My biggest problem is that the endings made ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.  The EC does nothing to fix this.  Yeah, it adds extended conversation sequences with the Catalyst.  But even then it still does not make sense.  The whole idea of "Synthetics will always destroy Organics, so i use Synthetics to destroy you before that happens," idea still does not sit right with me.  The only time in the present cycle that Organics are in direct conflict with Synthetics is:
1. Geth defending themselves, FREEDOM
2. Reapers control Geth and make them fight Organics.

So..... does the Catalyst cause the problems that he supposedly solves? Thatd be like a mechanic intentionally breaking your engine so you have to get it repaired every fifity thousand years, and by engine i mean galaxy and by repaired i mean destory everything that moves.  The EC does nothing to fill this GIANT PLOT HOLE, through the games you discover that AIs are not so bad, they are just misunderstood.  EDI saves your life more than once, not to mention Legion.  AND THE GETH LET THE QUARIANS BACK ON THEIR HOMEWORLD!  My, if that doesnt scream rampaging Synthetics out to destory all Organic life in the galaxy then i dont know what would.

I appreciate what Bioware did by releasing the extended cut, dont take my ranting the wrong way, i just believe that the logic doesnt work.  I do also enjoy the new fourth ending, even if everyone dies .Shepard gets to tell the Catalyst that his logic doesnt make any sense and that he would rather let everyone go down fighting than commit genocide, became a dictator, or force everyone to "evolve." At least now i get the option for standing up for my beliefs, even if it causes the death... of everyone... and everything ive been fighting for. Hmmmm, not sure how to take that one. Give in and Win, or Fight and lose? i personally choose fight and lose.  The whole William Wallice thing.  I don't know how i feel about the next cycle choosing red, blue, or green, kinda feels like a slap in the face.  

But anyway, If anyone agrees with the Catalyst's logic i suggest you take a trip to Rannoch and see how wrong he is.

exactly your right, for me explaining how the crucible works will bring logic to all the endings

[Journeyman313]

I got another question for everyone including BW, why didn't starkid just order the reapers to destroy all synthetic life instead of organic to begin with. it would have made all of the wars easier and sense synthetics is what starkid is afraid of anyway not organics but their machines

[Journeyman313]

dbt-kenny wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

Yep you are right, I always thought the star kid was a nuts AI. He killed off all of his own creators and in the end went mad of the guilt. As a concept that is good but the way they did the end just so sloopy. They cut so much of the end of the game.

we find it hard to believe that an AI whose suppose to be smart whouldn't just order the reapers to destroy all synthetic life instead of organic to begin with. it would have made all of the wars easier and sense synthetics is what starkid is afraid of anyway not organics but their machines

[Journeyman313]

Purebird wrote...

Holy shnikeys wrote...

Delaney wrote...

Holy shnikeys wrote...

Delaney wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Why can't people realize that the catalyst is an AI/VI gone wrong. Sure it is a sloppy ending, but the concept is actually really awesome. SPace magic and plot holes are holding it back, but it's definitely a cool concept.


I mean the starkid is a maniac, and we know his logic is flawed. The game acknowledges it, he even turned on his creators, sick! So good. I can't believe I like that character now!

I think people do realize the madness of the catalyst ... But they don't want to accept that, they suppress that because that would make Control and Synthesis definitely the wrong choice ... (Which they are ... but that's only my opinion)

Even if i accept he is iinsane, i think i should be given an option to use my awesome powers of diplomacy to convince him he is an idiot.  Like a Renegade option of "Look out the window.  See that Geth ship? Alright. Now look a little to the left, you see that? Thats an organic ship.  They arent killing each other.  Now shoot yourself in the head like every other bad guy."

Saren and the Illusive Man were obviously wrong, and i convinced them of their wrongness and they killed themselves.  The Catalyst should follow their example.

That's right ... But that's a waaaaay too simple for BW, I think. And too positive. And too ... ähm ... "videogamey" ... You can't convince everyone. You can't get everything. Take what you get or ... DIE! ... Oh, I hate that.

 
Very true, very true.  My diplomacy could fail(however unlikely that is, Shepard could convince Wrex that he is a Salarian that just ate to many flies), but like a renegade interrupt where i kick him in the shins would have been greatly appreciated.

Im so glad that other people feel this way! I was getting so keen for some extended cut goodness where the catalyst issue would be fixed but the internal logic flaw is still here! I literally sat in my seat and said to myself "If the catalyst isn't a logic damaged AI then this literally has to be the worst concept for an ending to any game ive played". I must believe this is true otherwise the whole portrayal of synthetics as being wholesome in the earlier part of me3 is just there for u to smile, nod at then dismiss. A big kick in the nuts for those of us who united the geth and quarians (which is probably a decent 90% of players out there). 

the whole ending is space majic because of the crucible(no codex explanation of how it works everything else in the game has an explanation) the starkid is a really stupid AI, EDI would have been a better catalyst(EDI would have destroyed the synthetic life to begin with instead of destroying all advanced life) starkid really dropped the ball I hardly call geneside and preserving people in goo form "protecting the galaxy from synthetics". makes no sense

[Delaney]

Journeyman313 wrote...

I got another question for everyone including BW, why didn't starkid just order the reapers to destroy all synthetic life instead of organic to begin with. it would have made all of the wars easier and sense synthetics is what starkid is afraid of anyway not organics but their machines

Because of the same reason starkid continues the cycle if you chose the refuse option although starkid exactly admits and knows that his solution (= the cycle) doesn't work anymore ... Starkid doesn't fight against chaos ... it IS chaos. And that's why neither Control nor Synthesis will ever be an option for me.

[The Divine Avenger]

The EC is just yet another great big middle finger to the Mass Effect fanbase & to that I reply with my wn middle finger. I'll be keeping my money in the future Bioware this is one Hardore fan that will not follow you any longer.

[Journeyman313]

Delaney wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

I got another question for everyone including BW, why didn't starkid just order the reapers to destroy all synthetic life instead of organic to begin with. it would have made all of the wars easier and sense synthetics is what starkid is afraid of anyway not organics but their machines

Because of the same reason starkid continues the cycle if you chose the refuse option although starkid exactly admits and knows that his solution (= the cycle) doesn't work anymore ... Starkid doesn't fight against chaos ... it IS chaos. And that's why neither Control nor Synthesis will ever be an option for me.

the starkid solution never worked if they were afraid of synthetic life wiping out the organic race then why not target synthetic life to begin with.

[3DandBeyond]

AmstradHero wrote...

The Jazzz Man wrote...

This DLC was stupendus!
They only did three things,
1. Edited the dialogue in the ending so it made more sence and added more detail to the catalyst.
2. Added the option to not take the original three options, and to make the cycle continue.
3. Added a extra cutscene after you make your choice so you can see how your choices you made throughout the game affected the galaxy.

(The only thing about this is that if you wish to see the different cutscene's for the different Paragon/Renegade choices you have to go through the tedious quarter of an hour from when you get hit by Harbinger)

I agree. It is utterly stupendous that they thought these completely superficial changes would fix the fundamental problems of the ending. What's even more stupendous is that so many people appear to be lacking the intelligence to recognise that almost all of the original failings are still there, and that they added more in this EC.

Apparently all you need is an epilogue slideshow and you are masters of writing again.

Anyone who is happy with this alternative simply lacks imaginate or the ability for logical reasoned thought to identify the flaws of the EC without someone telling them why it's awful. All the praise is doing is condoning shallow writing.

This is correct and they even said this in the pre-EC podcast, nothing fundamentally has changed.  In fact it was made worse IMO.  Destroy clearly shows EDI is dead (I knew it but now I see it) but otherwise features the least closure.  I feel this shows great disdain and contempt for Shepard and for players.

Synthesis and Control are even more stupid-I understood already what they meant, the EC doesn't make them better.  More words to say they do the same thing.  Synthesis is rape-there were groups of people in ME that didn't even like any tech augmentation, and now the kid says he could never make it happen because it couldn't be forced.  What then is Shepard doing if Shepard chooses it?  No one gave permission for this?  It's invading someone else's body.  The kid now also says it's to help people achieve what they have always wanted-perfection.  WHAT?  WHEN?  Speaking for human beings, I think we all realize that perfection isn't possible and yet we also see if it were it would be the end of all things.  What's left once perfection has been achieved.  And perfection through tech is even stupider.  Personally, I don't want my DNA converted to part tech for any reason.  I like being human.  So again it's forcing some artificial goal as a reason on everyone, though not everyone would agree.  It is also the mentality of a child that this would even be a good thing if it could happen.  It has the effect of advancing people beyond their abilities and beyond what they have earned.  Knowledge is never only an end goal, it is the sum of what you eventually learn and how you accomplish that learning, what you do to get there.  It's about failing and succeeding, learning to adapt and falling and rising.  Evolving not for evolution's sake but for the growth of the intangible, the soul and heart and mind-the whole person.  Synthesis removes all of that and is a hand out.  It says people can never learn all this for themselves.  And there are many cases within ME where such advancement has had dire consequences.

Control is the godhood of Shepard and the music is ominous and what Shepard says is ominous-some saw it as uplifting, but I didn't.  I saw it as an opening for Shepard to go rogue just like the original Catalyst-something caused that to happen and then caused the Catalyst to turn on his creators.  Why couldn't this happen to Shepard?

Furthermore, it is also the nanny choice.  Again people are too stupid to achieve anything for themselves, but unlike Synthesis there's no need to even ever learn anything.  Call a reaper-the reapers will fix and make new relays.  All tech is already based on reaper tech.  There's no need now for anyone to learn to do anything.  The reapers will take care of everything.  So what if people were left on their own to sink or swim and then might find better ways to do things or things that they just like?  There is no need and without need there is no reason to do anything for yourself.

Also, the reapers become the police of the galaxy.  This is insane.  I cannot conceive of anyone living in the galaxy being ok with even one reaper being left alive.  They have people goo in them.  Some man might wonder which reaper has his family in it.  It's rubbing salt in an open wound and it's worse because they have tried to make it sound more palatable.

Reject is just a slap at players.  What we wanted in theory but not at all what we said we wanted in practice.  And they know that.

The endings remain what they always were, not fundamentally changed as the devs said.  They were never derived from the ME story but created so they could say ME was thoughty in contrast with the "action mode" direction the games were taking.  Problem is, the earlier parts of ME3 needed more story and character interaction and the ending that was to be the battel to retake Earth should have been more action heavy with the fates of the characters (especially Shepard) clearly shown, not implied not imagined, but shown.  Nothing they did fixed this and they never got this.

[The Divine Avenger]

3DandBeyond wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...

The Jazzz Man wrote...

This DLC was stupendus!
They only did three things,
1. Edited the dialogue in the ending so it made more sence and added more detail to the catalyst.
2. Added the option to not take the original three options, and to make the cycle continue.
3. Added a extra cutscene after you make your choice so you can see how your choices you made throughout the game affected the galaxy.

(The only thing about this is that if you wish to see the different cutscene's for the different Paragon/Renegade choices you have to go through the tedious quarter of an hour from when you get hit by Harbinger)

I agree. It is utterly stupendous that they thought these completely superficial changes would fix the fundamental problems of the ending. What's even more stupendous is that so many people appear to be lacking the intelligence to recognise that almost all of the original failings are still there, and that they added more in this EC.

Apparently all you need is an epilogue slideshow and you are masters of writing again.

Anyone who is happy with this alternative simply lacks imaginate or the ability for logical reasoned thought to identify the flaws of the EC without someone telling them why it's awful. All the praise is doing is condoning shallow writing.

This is correct and they even said this in the pre-EC podcast, nothing fundamentally has changed.  In fact it was made worse IMO.  Destroy clearly shows EDI is dead (I knew it but now I see it) but otherwise features the least closure.  I feel this shows great disdain and contempt for Shepard and for players.

Synthesis and Control are even more stupid-I understood already what they meant, the EC doesn't make them better.  More words to say they do the same thing.  Synthesis is rape-there were groups of people in ME that didn't even like any tech augmentation, and now the kid says he could never make it happen because it couldn't be forced.  What then is Shepard doing if Shepard chooses it?  No one gave permission for this?  It's invading someone else's body.  The kid now also says it's to help people achieve what they have always wanted-perfection.  WHAT?  WHEN?  Speaking for human beings, I think we all realize that perfection isn't possible and yet we also see if it were it would be the end of all things.  What's left once perfection has been achieved.  And perfection through tech is even stupider.  Personally, I don't want my DNA converted to part tech for any reason.  I like being human.  So again it's forcing some artificial goal as a reason on everyone, though not everyone would agree.  It is also the mentality of a child that this would even be a good thing if it could happen.  It has the effect of advancing people beyond their abilities and beyond what they have earned.  Knowledge is never only an end goal, it is the sum of what you eventually learn and how you accomplish that learning, what you do to get there.  It's about failing and succeeding, learning to adapt and falling and rising.  Evolving not for evolution's sake but for the growth of the intangible, the soul and heart and mind-the whole person.  Synthesis removes all of that and is a hand out.  It says people can never learn all this for themselves.  And there are many cases within ME where such advancement has had dire consequences.

Control is the godhood of Shepard and the music is ominous and what Shepard says is ominous-some saw it as uplifting, but I didn't.  I saw it as an opening for Shepard to go rogue just like the original Catalyst-something caused that to happen and then caused the Catalyst to turn on his creators.  Why couldn't this happen to Shepard?

Furthermore, it is also the nanny choice.  Again people are too stupid to achieve anything for themselves, but unlike Synthesis there's no need to even ever learn anything.  Call a reaper-the reapers will fix and make new relays.  All tech is already based on reaper tech.  There's no need now for anyone to learn to do anything.  The reapers will take care of everything.  So what if people were left on their own to sink or swim and then might find better ways to do things or things that they just like?  There is no need and without need there is no reason to do anything for yourself.

Also, the reapers become the police of the galaxy.  This is insane.  I cannot conceive of anyone living in the galaxy being ok with even one reaper being left alive.  They have people goo in them.  Some man might wonder which reaper has his family in it.  It's rubbing salt in an open wound and it's worse because they have tried to make it sound more palatable.

Reject is just a slap at players.  What we wanted in theory but not at all what we said we wanted in practice.  And they know that.

The endings remain what they always were, not fundamentally changed as the devs said.  They were never derived from the ME story but created so they could say ME was thoughty in contrast with the "action mode" direction the games were taking.  Problem is, the earlier parts of ME3 needed more story and character interaction and the ending that was to be the battel to retake Earth should have been more action heavy with the fates of the characters (especially Shepard) clearly shown, not implied not imagined, but shown.  Nothing they did fixed this and they never got this.

very well said my friend & this is why my money will be staying in my pocket from now on when it comes to anything produced by Bioware.

Modifié par The Divine Avenger, 29 juin 2012 - 02:24 .

[JacobNZW]

I certainly received closure; especially those final still images and the audio commentary. It's still a bit iffy though in some places.

Shepard supposedly died, his name was placed on the wall - incredibly moving scene btw - and then you AGAIN see the same enigmatic breathing scene! (Destroy option, high EMS) WTH is this! So is he alive or not?!

Why in the world would BioWare leave this little 15 second clip (newly underscored with music)? I guess it is somehow important and honestly I was hoping to get that scene answered in the EC.

PS: Don't know why they said you should start playing from the Cerberus base, when in fact there was nothing new there.

[3DandBeyond]

Journeyman313 wrote...

Delaney wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

I got another question for everyone including BW, why didn't starkid just order the reapers to destroy all synthetic life instead of organic to begin with. it would have made all of the wars easier and sense synthetics is what starkid is afraid of anyway not organics but their machines

Because of the same reason starkid continues the cycle if you chose the refuse option although starkid exactly admits and knows that his solution (= the cycle) doesn't work anymore ... Starkid doesn't fight against chaos ... it IS chaos. And that's why neither Control nor Synthesis will ever be an option for me.

the starkid solution never worked if they were afraid of synthetic life wiping out the organic race then why not target synthetic life to begin with.

This is exactly right.  Get rid of the problem not the victim of the problem.  The logic is even worse with the chaos order more front and center.  And the kid himself is a real example of the created destroying the creator-he stuck his creators against their will in a reaper.  The kid should target himself and self-destruct.  Problem solved.  He created chaos. 

I still hold to the idea that the reapers were the best and ultimate foes and made much better enemies left with some mystery intact.  I used the example of the movie Jaws and I think it really applies.  The star kid says that the reapers aren't interested in war and that fire just does what it's meant to do.  Well, this is stupid because the reapers were not sent out to destroy advanced organics, they were to find balance in a situation that doesn't now exist.

And Shepard as a human makes a better Catalyst than the kid, because Shepard found balance and harmony and was working on it well before the reapers were even known about.

Back to my feeling on Jaws.  In Jaws, the shark's motives don't matter, but I daresay there was not one person in the theater watching that movie that did not have some horrified reaction when it started chewing on people.  I saw the reapers like this.  I didn't really need to know their motives-though there were many given within ME that had nothing to do with the ending we got.  I kind of like the idea that they were Jaws in space, sucking up people goo.  That was sickening, horrifying, and as Anderson said a, GD abomination.  That could make you scream (metaphorically), and make you want them dead. 

This dredged up stupid idea that synthetics must always be at odds with organics and there's conflict and chaos and needs to be order, well poppycock.  In fact, there are many that feel without some chaos, life would not exist at all.  It is chaos that actually pushes evolution forward and evolution is not an end goal, it is a state of change to betterment.  And the idea that something must always happen denies the ability to adapt and evolve.  You find new ways to deal with a problem and you grow, mentally, physically, and even spiritually (not meaning specifically a religious application).  Scientists have never said that without doubt synthetic life will always be at odds with organic life, but have instead created worst case scenarios, cautionary tales to say, "what if?"  They do this so that people can learn how to cope if things like that do happen or what to do to PREVENT it.  Since scientists are trying already to adapt solutions to prevent such a thing, there's every possibility that no such thing will ever happen.  The game suggests otherwise and demands that we see it as inevitable and make a stupid artificial choice based upon it.  Garbage.  I have way more faith in people than this.  Sure, people do get stupid and do stupid things, but I think there's an ebb and flow of decency and advancement in ideals.  Life is chaotic, but it was meant to be that way.

[Journeyman313]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

The EC is just yet another great big middle finger to the Mass Effect fanbase & to that I reply with my wn middle finger. I'll be keeping my money in the future Bioware this is one Hardore fan that will not follow you any longer.

I felt the same way but for some reason people like replacing an awesome boss fight with red,blue,green ending oh and they also ok with the bazzare explanation. starkid solution= protect organics from synthetics by destroying organics with synthetics. crucible =no explanation just a majic space gun kind of like easy button at staples. all in all ME is a science fiction rpg shooter. that until now had no majical or religious themes. the entire series stayed true to its genre (I mean everything tech wise was scientifically explained through codex) until now when we defeat the reaper with some sort of majical space gun with no scienctific explanation and sense majic was never a theme in ME series the only verdict I can come up with is that ME 3 completely abandoned its genre, and in science fiction this is not acceptable in fact I never seen a science fiction completely abandoned its genre before now, all just to make way for some boring red,blue,green ending, wow BW I don't know how you got people to accept this crap but you did. 

Modifié par Journeyman313, 29 juin 2012 - 02:36 .

[The Divine Avenger]

Journeyman313 wrote...

The Divine Avenger wrote...

The EC is just yet another great big middle finger to the Mass Effect fanbase & to that I reply with my wn middle finger. I'll be keeping my money in the future Bioware this is one Hardore fan that will not follow you any longer.

I felt the same way but for some reason people like replacing an awesome boss fight with red,blue,green ending oh and they also ok with the bazzare explanation. starkid solution= protect organics from synthetics by destroying organics with synthetics. crucible =no explanation just a majic space gun kind of like easy button at staples. all in all ME is a science fiction rpg shooter. that until now had no majical or religious themes. the entire series stayed true to its genre (I mean everything tech wise was scientifically explained through codex) until now when we defeat the reaper with some sort of majical space gun with no scienctific explanation and sense majic was never a theme in ME series the only verdict I can come up with is that ME 3 completely abandoned its genre, and in science fiction this is not acceptable in fact I never a science fiction completely abandoned its genre, all just to make way for some boring red,blue,green ending, wow BW I don't know how you got people to accept this crap but you did. 

I'm 100% with you my friend Mass Effect up untill ME3 that is was as simple as Mass Effect = Star Trek now after ME3 it's more like Mass Effect = Star Sh*t.

If that's the way Bioware wants it then all I have to say to then is this

 (STARTS SINGING) IT'S MY MONEY & i WON'T SPEND IT ON YOU, SPEND IT ON YOU SPEND IT ON YOU, YOU'ED SAY BYE TO IF IT HAPPENED TO YOU DADADA DA DA.

[Journeyman313]

The Divine Avenger wrote...

Journeyman313 wrote...

The Divine Avenger wrote...

The EC is just yet another great big middle finger to the Mass Effect fanbase & to that I reply with my wn middle finger. I'll be keeping my money in the future Bioware this is one Hardore fan that will not follow you any longer.

I felt the same way but for some reason people like replacing an awesome boss fight with red,blue,green ending oh and they also ok with the bazzare explanation. starkid solution= protect organics from synthetics by destroying organics with synthetics. crucible =no explanation just a majic space gun kind of like easy button at staples. all in all ME is a science fiction rpg shooter. that until now had no majical or religious themes. the entire series stayed true to its genre (I mean everything tech wise was scientifically explained through codex) until now when we defeat the reaper with some sort of majical space gun with no scienctific explanation and sense majic was never a theme in ME series the only verdict I can come up with is that ME 3 completely abandoned its genre, and in science fiction this is not acceptable in fact I never a science fiction completely abandoned its genre, all just to make way for some boring red,blue,green ending, wow BW I don't know how you got people to accept this crap but you did. 

I'm 100% with you my friend Mass Effect up untill ME3 that is was as simple as Mass Effect = Star Trek now after ME3 it's more like Mass Effect = Star Sh*t.

If that's the way Bioware wants it then all I have to say to then is this

 (STARTS SINGING) IT'S MY MONEY & i WON'T SPEND IT ON YOU, SPEND IT ON YOU SPEND IT ON YOU, YOU'ED SAY BYE TO IF IT HAPPENED TO YOU DADADA DA DA.

I wish we could start another take back campaign but there is too many people blissfully accepting this crap