4048 réponses à ce sujet

[ld1449]

What the EC, and Bioware's response in delivering it boils down to is:

"We're not spending more money than necessary to get you to shut up."

Lets break down what the EC was:

-Almost literally 10 mins of video clips, which many so far have pointed out could have been done in real time or in some other form to free up a "crap-ton" of space.

-Additional Dialogue with the Catalyst that "justifies" its options and explains them to a bit more depth to not just make it seem like word of god (Author) demands you accept this no questions asked.

-A slideshow of your previous teammates from ME2 and some ME1 people,

-A slideshow of your teammates of ME3

-A slideshow of the future of the various races.


They did not free up those aditional mins of video clips into Real time to free space because they wanted the excuse of Microsoft's download limit on free DLC. In other words, they want to be able to say "Its not us, its them (points at Microsoft) We would have loved to give you more."

Bull****.

The EC DLC is a fix that's On the Cheap, and they wanted to keep it On the Cheap, since its free. Making more, REAL brand spankin new content and not just finishing up content that was already half rendered or half done by the time they started would have cost them more than they were comfortable with.

I can understand that they're a business and they want to save money, but don't let them pretend that the EC was "Done with Love"

It was done to fix a problem as cheaply and as timely as possible. There are already rumors circulating that the EC was finished two months ago, merely held back to make it look legit.

Now point number two, without retconning the catalyst altogether this was the only thing that could be done to make the little brat palatable.

They did a fairly good try at it until I realized Shepard didn't bring up either EDI or the Geth Quarian war that can be resolved peacefully.

The slideshow bits are again Bioware remaining on the cheap side. Since they didn't free up that additional space by keeping the videos as is, they simply made slideshows that would show your teammates which they promised would make an appearance in the EC (though it was implied they would actually be fighting rather than just Zaeed sitting down on some beach lounge chair or whatever that was)

All n All, the EC was neither groundbreaking satisfying, nor Soul crushingly disappointing like the vanilla game. I can see myself playing ME again. I'll always know that the ending is one of the most disappointing to ever grace a literature medium, but I can see myself pushing through it and head-cannoning the rest.

What I don't want is for Bioware to play this off as their generosity, nor anyone else thanking them for being so good to their fans by releasing multiple free pieces of content (as I've already seen on the BSN)

Call them out on their bull**** at the very least.

[PossibleCabbage]

EnforcerWRX7 wrote...

Then you and Casey have something in common.  In the narrative of the series, the previous version of the endings were extremely out of place.

I'll choose to take that first sentence as a compliment.

I can understand not liking the ending of the first game, but I can't see any way that the previous version of the ending was out of place, as it models the endings of the previous two games closely, and it fits the tone of the previous 29 hours and 45 minutes of gameplay quite well.

Personally, I thought that conceptually the initial ending was nearly perfect, but in execution it was somewhat lacking.  I think the execution of the extended cut is better (except for the stupid, stupid hot evac and the wholly unnecessary Catalyst infodump), but I do not like it conceptually.  It's just too happy, antiseptic, and immediate and not nearly haunting or cosmic enough.

Modifié par PossibleCabbage, 02 juillet 2012 - 01:50 .

[Dein Justin]

Anybody find it repulsive that the ending cutscenes were retconned? Personally, I am okay with the EC scenes (some of them have that KOTOR feel during the part where you're trying to save Bastila and get the Battle Meditation on your side)...

..but when Joker is trying to escape the Crucible's beam it is so majorly different than the original ending that I'm hating it so much. In the original, we can see that Joker is running away fast since if you took Destroy, the Normandy would might as well be dead since EDI will be down. Also, in the original ending, the Normandy gets shaken up and damaged to the engines whereas the EC ending shows Joker to be cruising to the stars, happily ever after. That doesn't even by any chance explain why the Normandy needs to be landed for the memorial scene where the memorial wall is actually in the Normandy ship itself.

I'm not going to mention the Relay explosion rehashed to only the inner bits tearing since that is space magic.

Would have just loved it if BW read the Indoctrination Theory and applied it with their special touch..sigh..

[Moosasarous]

Thank you Bioware. Thank you so so much. Yall didnt have to do this, but you did. You won this back. You won me back.

[Shepard108278]

Well I've only played through the refusal and destroy endings and so far the EC is amazing. I liked the original endings but these make much more sense and give much needed closure. Well done Bioware.

[screwball8]

TekFanX wrote...

Still, there are things that made me raise my right eyebrow in disbelief.
For example:
The Normandy, the ship that caused the most trouble for the Reapers, is hovering directly in front of Harbinger.
Harbinger doesn't react. A large frigate with Thanix-cannons(which may pose the biggest threat to Harbinger on the battlefield around it) is just being ignored.

Maybe Harbinger's laser battery ran out, and he had to swap in the backup.
Maybe he stopped to text the Catalyst "OMFG you won't believe what I'm seeing!!!11"
Maybe he mistook the Normandy for a sexy lady Reaper, and was distracted by her big booty.

[EnforcerWRX7]

PossibleCabbage wrote...

EnforcerWRX7 wrote...

Then you and Casey have something in common.  In the narrative of the series, the previous version of the endings were extremely out of place.

I'll choose to take that first sentence as a compliment.

I can understand not liking the ending of the first game, but I can't see any way that the previous version of the ending was out of place, as it models the endings of the previous two games closely, and it fits the tone of the previous 29 hours and 45 minutes of gameplay quite well.

Personally, I thought that conceptually the initial ending was nearly perfect, but in execution it was somewhat lacking.  I think the execution of the extended cut is better (except for the stupid, stupid hot evac and the wholly unnecessary Catalyst infodump), but I do not like it conceptually.  It's just too happy, antiseptic, and immediate and not nearly haunting or cosmic enough.

Its been explained a million times.  Broken narrative.  I don't have to do it again.

[cbutz]

The EC desperately needs a "From the wreckage" scene like Mass Effect I. I know you can die in 3 out of the 4 endings but I feel that High EMS Destroy should have done a "from the wreckage."

[Iakus]

cbutz wrote...

The EC desperately needs a "From the wreckage" scene like Mass Effect I. I know you can die in 3 out of the 4 endings but I feel that High EMS Destroy should have done a "from the wreckage."

+1

[Landon7001]

iakus wrote...

cbutz wrote...

The EC desperately needs a "From the wreckage" scene like Mass Effect I. I know you can die in 3 out of the 4 endings but I feel that High EMS Destroy should have done a "from the wreckage."

+1

+2

[I. C. Wiener]

Landon7001 wrote...

iakus wrote...

cbutz wrote...

The EC desperately needs a "From the wreckage" scene like Mass Effect I. I know you can die in 3 out of the 4 endings but I feel that High EMS Destroy should have done a "from the wreckage."

+1

+2

+3 
come on BioWare...

[Sirsmirkalot]

I agree with a "from the wreckage" scene, but only if they'd use the exact same music.

Modifié par Sirsmirkalot, 02 juillet 2012 - 04:34 .

[Darth Krytie]

I finally got a chance to play through the EC (destroy ending/high EMS) and I really loved it. Read about the other ones. So, I'm pretty much satisfied. I never was extremely dissatisfied, in the interest of disclosure, however. Now, I'd love some proper DLC soonish.

[Lochwood]

ld1449 wrote...

What the EC, and Bioware's response in delivering it boils down to is:

"We're not spending more money than necessary to get you to shut up."

Lets break down what the EC was:

-Almost literally 10 mins of video clips, which many so far have pointed out could have been done in real time or in some other form to free up a "crap-ton" of space.

-Additional Dialogue with the Catalyst that "justifies" its options and explains them to a bit more depth to not just make it seem like word of god (Author) demands you accept this no questions asked.

-A slideshow of your previous teammates from ME2 and some ME1 people,

-A slideshow of your teammates of ME3

-A slideshow of the future of the various races.


They did not free up those aditional mins of video clips into Real time to free space because they wanted the excuse of Microsoft's download limit on free DLC. In other words, they want to be able to say "Its not us, its them (points at Microsoft) We would have loved to give you more."

Bull****.

The EC DLC is a fix that's On the Cheap, and they wanted to keep it On the Cheap, since its free. Making more, REAL brand spankin new content and not just finishing up content that was already half rendered or half done by the time they started would have cost them more than they were comfortable with.

I can understand that they're a business and they want to save money, but don't let them pretend that the EC was "Done with Love"

It was done to fix a problem as cheaply and as timely as possible. There are already rumors circulating that the EC was finished two months ago, merely held back to make it look legit.

Now point number two, without retconning the catalyst altogether this was the only thing that could be done to make the little brat palatable.

They did a fairly good try at it until I realized Shepard didn't bring up either EDI or the Geth Quarian war that can be resolved peacefully.

The slideshow bits are again Bioware remaining on the cheap side. Since they didn't free up that additional space by keeping the videos as is, they simply made slideshows that would show your teammates which they promised would make an appearance in the EC (though it was implied they would actually be fighting rather than just Zaeed sitting down on some beach lounge chair or whatever that was)

All n All, the EC was neither groundbreaking satisfying, nor Soul crushingly disappointing like the vanilla game. I can see myself playing ME again. I'll always know that the ending is one of the most disappointing to ever grace a literature medium, but I can see myself pushing through it and head-cannoning the rest.

What I don't want is for Bioware to play this off as their generosity, nor anyone else thanking them for being so good to their fans by releasing multiple free pieces of content (as I've already seen on the BSN)

Call them out on their bull**** at the very least.

You're wrong -- on a number of levels.

The "video clips" you're talking about are built with the game engine. When you run at the teleport beam and that Mako flips, it's based on your character's look, your squad choice and their uniform choice. And, it plays out differently if you have a love interest with you. It explains how your team gets out and why Joker is running. Good change.

The Catalyst clues us in on some key background details such that the whole thing feels more natural, less abrupt, more true to Shep's characteristic habit of asking for more details and finally makes the Reaper's purpose make sense. The creators of the Catalyst were themselves made into Reapers "for their own good." Excellent changes.

Slideshows that vary depending on your choices. You think they're "cheap" and "bad" because you're not stopping to think about how many variations there are in play. What was your Mordin doing? What was your Zaed doing? How did your Quarians look? Excellent changes.

The three endings are well narrated and show you how things shake out -- and dispel the impression that we were left with that everything was irredeemably left in ruins. We can see that the Citadel's hulk is still in orbit and huge sections of the broken relays than can be rebuilt in time. We see a sleek new London.

We see that the Normandy is repaired, and it's clarified that EDI *does* die in the destruction ending. She could survice and be seen exiting the Normandy previously. The fact that Shep's name is not placed on the wall in the Destroy ending telegraphs that he or she does survive. Awesome clarifications and changes.

There's a new ending where your refusal to play along with the Catalyst shows you the consequences of your call -- rather than just going to a critical mission failure scene as before. The Reapers steamroll everyone the way that they we knew they would since halftime in ME1. But  -- because of Liara's beacon, the next cycle has a much better warning than you did when you got the Prothean beacon, and thus the Reapers are destroyed by your decendants, to whom you are the avatar of resistance -- just as Javik hopes. Shooting the Catalyst in the head is now recognized and has weight.  Excellent changes.

The only remaining problem is that the synthesis ending still seems like goofy space magic. New DNA? Really? And my jumping in that furnace-beam and being cooked to ash somehow uses my "energy" to "power" the change? Like, everybody gets some of my genetic tissue and coding via green radio-waves? Um -- magically? It's stupid. Why not just toss Anderson's corpse in there -- or a can of coca-cola and an MRE from your backpack?

I haven't played through to choose Synthesis, so maybe it makes more sense now -- but I really doubt it.

As for not having enough closure, I strongly suspect that we'll see Shepard again in future games. Some mysteries deserve to remain so that there's some room to craft new games. New stories and new themes. Some familiar backstory and characters -- but with the other 99% of the galaxy now free to be explored.

Remember that the relays only touch 1% of the known star-systems. What else is out there? I can't wait to see what happens next.

[Lochwood]

linsanity wrote...

Finished EC just 5 minutes ago.... Not happy

"you have choice, more then you deserve"
Thanks Bioware, Im feeling the love.

You know that that dialogue goes down in different ways depending on your game and dialogue choices, right?

He said "You have hope -- more than you know" to me. Way to play a dick character and then act surprised by the consequences. 

Has anyone else noticed that the more times a poster misuses the words "than" and "your" the less likely that they are to think that the extended cut is a huge improvement.

I'm just saying -- maybe a lot of the changes went over your head, or you're not considering all of the ways that things can shake out depending on your saved game state and your choices. I don't know.

Before we were "holding the line" because the ending was an absolute mess. Just a confusing and illogical jumble. They've fixed it. If you still don't like it, you're just butthurt and you don't want there to be any story left for the next Mass Effect games.

Save this post. Those of us with destroy-ending saves will see Shepard again in future games.



Deal with it.

[SparkyRich]

I agree with another poster who stated "The EC brings the ending from an F- to a C+." If it had been released as it stands now I would have been disappointed with it, but not nearly as much as I was by the original ending.

That said, it'll be a long time before I buy any game published by EA until at least a month after release. I'll never pre-order anything from them again. Corporations are by design concerned solely with making money - they're the "reapers" of cash that work for their investors. They allow the investors to separate themselves morally and emotionally from the act of making as much money as possible while expending as little effort and as few resources as possible. They do not care if you're happy with the end product as long as you're not so angry that you stop buying their stuff. It's sad, and it's not the fault of the staff, the hard-working folk who do their best to get the job done and who take pride in their work. It's the Corporation deciding that "you're taking too long, we need money now, if it's a turd let's hurry up and float that thing so we can see some sales!"

[clamj00ce]

Lochwood wrote...

linsanity wrote...

Finished EC just 5 minutes ago.... Not happy

"you have choice, more then you deserve"
Thanks Bioware, Im feeling the love.

You know that that dialogue goes down in different ways depending on your game and dialogue choices, right?

He said "You have hope -- more than you know" to me. Way to play a dick character and then act surprised by the consequences. 

Has anyone else noticed that the more times a poster misuses the words "than" and "your" the less likely that they are to think that the extended cut is a huge improvement.

I'm just saying -- maybe a lot of the changes went over your head, or you're not considering all of the ways that things can shake out depending on your saved game state and your choices. I don't know.

Before we were "holding the line" because the ending was an absolute mess. Just a confusing and illogical jumble. They've fixed it. If you still don't like it, you're just butthurt and you don't want there to be any story left for the next Mass Effect games.

Save this post. Those of us with destroy-ending saves will see Shepard again in future games.



Deal with it.

Wow you are an ass. They have also said, many times, that any future mass effect game will not have Shepard in it and even if they did make one who would be stupid enought to buy it?

[Lochwood]

That's a refreshingly nuanced take on corporate governance.

And really, the best thing that you can do is to vote with your wallet. I too am hesitant to preorder EA titles now, but I've lifted my boycott on them and have been buying a lot of spectre packs for Mass Effect 3 multiplayer which I stopped playing after finishing the solo campaign.

For me, extended cut takes the ending from an F- to a B -- with the overall game going up to an A -- with Mass Effect 2 and 1 and DA:O having been A++ all time favorites. I'm happy -- and I'm happy to spend money buying games and DLC again.

And I really want to see what happens with the next Mass Effect game. No prequels, please! Let's see what else is out there!

[Afalstein]

On the whole, I feel satisfied with the EC.  I'm not estatic, but I'm good with it.  It filled in some plot holes, it made a few more, but more importantly, it provided some closure by finally showing you what happened around the galaxy after your decision.  There's finally more to the endings than RGB explosions.  You get to see what happened to the rest of the team, what happened to the Quarians, what became of the Krogan, etc.  Good stuff.

There are hiccups.  Joker flying the Normandy into the middle of the end rush scene was just laughable... seriously?  Why didn't they just go there to begin with?  Or send in a bunch of men from the Normandy while they were there?  I love how the Normandy can hover 1000 feet away from a Reaper and not suffer any damage.  And I'm confounded that the Extended "Destroy" ending doesn't show what happens if Shepard lives--that was half the appeal of that ending! 

And of course, I have problems with the larger story issues, like how the end decision doesn't fit thematically with a lot of the Mass Effect Universe.  In a lot of ways, the Catalyst still doesn't make sense and still oversimplifies the series into synthetic vs. organic, which was never a big thing before. 

But hey.  That's the ending they had originally, and in a way there's something to be said for sticking to your guns.  The original ending was the one they wanted, and while they explained things a bit more, they refused to change it.  In a way, there is something comforting in knowing that Bioware views the original ME3 as a complete package, and that they didn't backpedal madly just to please fans.

[ld1449]

Lochwood wrote...

You're wrong -- on a number of levels.

The "video clips" you're talking about are built with the game engine. When you run at the teleport beam and that Mako flips, it's based on your character's look, your squad choice and their uniform choice. And, it plays out differently if you have a love interest with you. It explains how your team gets out and why Joker is running. Good change.

The Catalyst clues us in on some key background details such that the whole thing feels more natural, less abrupt, more true to Shep's characteristic habit of asking for more details and finally makes the Reaper's purpose make sense. The creators of the Catalyst were themselves made into Reapers "for their own good." Excellent changes.

Slideshows that vary depending on your choices. You think they're "cheap" and "bad" because you're not stopping to think about how many variations there are in play. What was your Mordin doing? What was your Zaed doing? How did your Quarians look? Excellent changes.

The three endings are well narrated and show you how things shake out -- and dispel the impression that we were left with that everything was irredeemably left in ruins. We can see that the Citadel's hulk is still in orbit and huge sections of the broken relays than can be rebuilt in time. We see a sleek new London.

We see that the Normandy is repaired, and it's clarified that EDI *does* die in the destruction ending. She could survice and be seen exiting the Normandy previously. The fact that Shep's name is not placed on the wall in the Destroy ending telegraphs that he or she does survive. Awesome clarifications and changes.

There's a new ending where your refusal to play along with the Catalyst shows you the consequences of your call -- rather than just going to a critical mission failure scene as before. The Reapers steamroll everyone the way that they we knew they would since halftime in ME1. But  -- because of Liara's beacon, the next cycle has a much better warning than you did when you got the Prothean beacon, and thus the Reapers are destroyed by your decendants, to whom you are the avatar of resistance -- just as Javik hopes. Shooting the Catalyst in the head is now recognized and has weight.  Excellent changes.

The only remaining problem is that the synthesis ending still seems like goofy space magic. New DNA? Really? And my jumping in that furnace-beam and being cooked to ash somehow uses my "energy" to "power" the change? Like, everybody gets some of my genetic tissue and coding via green radio-waves? Um -- magically? It's stupid. Why not just toss Anderson's corpse in there -- or a can of coca-cola and an MRE from your backpack?

I haven't played through to choose Synthesis, so maybe it makes more sense now -- but I really doubt it.

As for not having enough closure, I strongly suspect that we'll see Shepard again in future games. Some mysteries deserve to remain so that there's some room to craft new games. New stories and new themes. Some familiar backstory and characters -- but with the other 99% of the galaxy now free to be explored.

Remember that the relays only touch 1% of the known star-systems. What else is out there? I can't wait to see what happens next.

Like I said, I am not wholly dissatisfied by the changes they made.

I am however, not going to let anyone bull**** me and declare that the changes made were "done with love" when I can clearly see that this was done as cost effectively as possible, and that the changes made, while made to varrying degrees of good and bad, are truly minimal when you stop to consider just how much content you can fit into two gigs without putting huge data hoggers like the cinematic clips that could have instead been done real-time like the fleshed out beam run.

[Delta 57 Dash]

Ok, just got through with this, initial reactions:

Explanation: MUCH better. Some people might still be upset with this, but I thought they did a great job adding in a lot more detail. More stuff makes sense now.

Consequences.: The relays? They no longer blow up so much. That's pretty awesome. And getting to see the differences between the endings is very nice.

Emotional: EDI talking through the synthetic ending brought me damn close to tears. The way she just sounded so happy and grateful for just being alive.

All in all, Bravo Bioware. Bravo.

[TheShadowWolf911]

i must ask..........why was the human reaper from the last game so different looking then the others? what was the Catalyst's reason for that?

[Vanth]

I have now seen them all too. I actually think they did a really god job. I am now happy with all the endings. All three choices were now nicely and fully explained and all of them had advantages and disadvantages - so much so that I was not sure which one to pick.

I think this really improves the game and I am now very happy with the endings.

[AchesOfDoom]

I. C. Wiener wrote...

Landon7001 wrote...

iakus wrote...

cbutz wrote...

The EC desperately needs a "From the wreckage" scene like Mass Effect I. I know you can die in 3 out of the 4 endings but I feel that High EMS Destroy should have done a "from the wreckage."

+1

+2

+3 
come on BioWare...

Yeah c'mon!
Let's do it one more time!

+4

[uecasm]

SparkyRich wrote...

I agree with another poster who stated "The EC brings the ending from an F- to a C+." If it had been released as it stands now I would have been disappointed with it, but not nearly as much as I was by the original ending.

That said, it'll be a long time before I buy any game published by EA until at least a month after release. I'll never pre-order anything from them again.

All of this.

There's still some stupid present (mostly around Starkid) but it's now at tolerable levels.  And I kind of liked the evac scene.  Sure, it's massively unrealistic, but it had some good moments.  (And besides, throughout pretty much the entire game the Normandy gets mysteriously ignored by the Reaper forces.  I think the Reaper IFF is a possible explanation for this.)