266 réponses à ce sujet

[Mcfly616]

I took the 4th option....by accident....awesome is one of the words that come to mind....thank you Bioware....it makes sense.....the StarBrat explains anything I ever cared to know from him....

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Crusina wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yes. People who don't consider those different from them to be "real people" are shown to be correct by this ending: they get the happy ending, so dismissing those who are different from you as "not real people" and killing them all is obviously the "correct" choice.

There are no negative consequences to destroy for either sociopathic characters, characters who hate synthetics, or characters who are fine with committing genocide to save their own lives.

I think they are people as much as you or me. I didn't choose that ending because I wanted to, I choose it because it was for the best. I wanted to destroy, what had destroyed Trillions upon Trillions up Trillions of other "people"


You add up the math, what's the better cost? Trillions more to continue potentially till the end of time? or Five Billion now.


And how do you know that the Geth wouldn't decide to tell you to do it? You think they would really reach the consensus that Shepard shouldn't choose it just to save them, and doom them and everyone else anyways.

*Also, sorry for the insults you didn't deserve that.

The thing is, you don't have to commit genocide to save trillions of lives, Trillions of lives are saved with any of the three endings.

Committing genocide is correlated with Shepard getting to live. That's it. That's what's frustrating to me: that survival is directly correlated with committing genocide.

I don't mean to be harsh. I've just been here a month, listening to people over and over again say that voluntarily committing genocide to save one's own life is the same as accidentally inflicting collateral damage in a war, and it's not even remotely similar. I dislike how the endings have no negative consequences for those who hate the Geth, or who don't believe they're worth as much as organics.

I do wish the endings had given you a chance to speak with EDI or the Geth before picking destroy. If you had been able to describe the three choices to them, and they had agreed that destroy was the best, I wouldn't be as troubled by the thematic implications of the way the endings are currently laid out.

[Ieldra]

@CulturalGeekGirl:
What kind of sacrifice would you have accepted for Shepard's survival? Because surely you can't expect there to be no significant downsides.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

There have been a number of suggestions for alternate sacrifices: heavy losses on earth, Earth itself destroyed (but enough colonies survive that the human race is still viable), etc. Specifically, committing genocide against an unpopular minority that many consider to be "less valuable" than "normal people" (IE, organics) really, really bothers me.

And again.. there are no significant downsides to destroy for people who don't consider the geth to have any value. So they did recieve a scenario where Shepard survives with no significant downsides, and there are a huge, huge number of them to judge from these boards.

They finish the game feeling unharmed and completely vindicated in their beliefs, having lost nothing of any importance. The hateful are rewarded while anyone with compassion must suffer. That's why I find it so troubling.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 26 juin 2012 - 12:48 .

[Mcfly616]

Yeah....I don't understand what people don't get about the symbolism of the destroy ending....destroy technology, destroy the Reapers.....maybe they're not m big Sci Fi fans? Idk....the symbolism has been used plenty of times

I guess you never heard the saying "no sacrifice, no victory"....

Learn it....its the truth

Modifié par Mcfly616, 26 juin 2012 - 12:50 .

[nevets187]

Michael177 wrote...

I never disliked the original ending, but felt more fulfilling. Thanks for the hardwork! Let's just hope that more people feel this way now.

What he said.
Good job and thanks for the all the hard work.

[Mcfly616]

I hated the original endings.....I can now say that I actually want to play through my favorite series again

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Yeah....I don't understand what people don't get about the symbolism of the destroy ending....destroy technology, destroy the Reapers.....

I guess you never heard the saying "no sacrifice, no victory"....

Learn it....its the truth

To clarify again: the problem isn't that there is a sacrifice, it's that the particular sacrifice in question correlates with particularly horrific historical events, and leaves bigots feeling vindicated.

Anyone who hates the geth CAN achieve victory with no sacrifice, and I've seen them bragging about it here for months. So the ending as it stands completley disproves you "no sacrifice, no victory" stance, because those who don't consider the geth to have value feel like they are given victory on a silver platter by a game that supports their stance.

[nicocap24]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

There have been a number of suggestions for alternate sacrifices: heavy losses on earth, Earth itself destroyed (but enough colonies survive that the human race is still viable), etc. Specifically, committing genocide against an unpopular minority that many consider to be "less valuable" than "normal people" (IE, organics) really, really bothers me.

And again.. there are no significant downsides to destroy for people who don't consider the geth to have any value. So they did recieve a scenario where Shepard survives with no significant downsides, and there are a huge, huge number of them to judge from these boards.

They finish the game feeling unharmed and completely vindicated in their beliefs, having lost nothing of any importance. The hateful are rewarded while anyone with compassion must suffer. That's why I find it so troubling.

Again, it depends on what philosophy you ascribe to regarding AI. I'm not trying to say Destroy is right. As I've said I haven't made up my mind about the geth. I'm just saying I unerstand why some people wouldn't see Destroy as genocide.

Edit: And that doesn't make them "sociopaths". They just have a different philosophy.

Modifié par nicocap24, 26 juin 2012 - 12:54 .

[Crusina]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The thing is, you don't have to commit genocide to save trillions of lives, Trillions of lives are saved with any of the three endings.

Committing genocide is correlated with Shepard getting to live. That's it. That's what's frustrating to me: that survival is directly correlated with committing genocide.

I don't mean to be harsh. I've just been here a month, listening to people over and over again say that voluntarily committing genocide to save one's own life is the same as accidentally inflicting collateral damage in a war, and it's not even remotely similar. I dislike how the endings have no negative consequences for those who hate the Geth, or who don't believe they're worth as much as organics.

I do wish the endings had given you a chance to speak with EDI or the Geth before picking destroy. If you had been able to describe the three choices to them, and they had agreed that destroy was the best, I wouldn't be as troubled by the thematic implications of the way the endings are currently laid out.

The thing is, in the destroy ending you do. That's the whole point, you do what you think is right.

Some believe the geth dying is an acceptable cost to end the war, those that do not, choose other opitions. That's the whole point, you may not agree with my decision, but it wasn't yours to make.

The point of the endings was to create the ending you wanted how you wanted. You could view destroy as a  "for the greater good ending" or a  "the only choice" see what I mean?

It isn't just geoncide for the fun of it.

Again. THAT IS THE POINT OF THE ENDINGS.

You view it as a terrible choice for your own reasons, others view it as the right choice for their own reasons. The brilliant part of the endings is that none of them are wrong. If you destroy for the greater good, you are right, if you destroy because you don't view the geth as human, you are right.

You decide what is correct, and part of making decisions is understanding the consequences.

Modifié par Crusina, 26 juin 2012 - 12:55 .

[LilyasAvalon]

Not bad. But not great either.

Hate to say this, but after seeing what they did with more time, makes me REALLY think it is EA's fault over the bad press ME3 got.

Makes me wonder what ME3 could've been like if it had, say, 4 years as opposed to 2 years.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Crusina wrote...
The point of the endings was to create the ending you wanted how you wanted. You could view destroy as a  "for the greater good ending" or a  "the only choice" see what I mean?

It isn't just geoncide for the fun of it.

No, but it is genocide to save your own life.

Shepard living is the only benefit you get from committing that genocide. Many people playing the endings now know that going in, so they're choosing to commit genocide merely to save their own lives.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 26 juin 2012 - 12:57 .

[Alisira]

nicocap24 wrote...

Some people might not consider the Geth as people, so they don't see it as genocide. I haven't made up my mind about the geth myself.

I see your point, especially if you're from a religious background this might be your opinion. But is also the no1 excuse for dictators/psychopaths/madmen to kill other people. Slippery slope I'd say.

[LilyasAvalon]

JohnTheJohn wrote...

Destroy ending was... pretty good. My mind hasn't been blown or anything but it's a nice ending with hope. You won me over Bioware!

*Grins evilly* Wait until you get to Synthesis.

[Vez04]

I am convinced now, BioWare in my opionion have done all the endings justice,/ what the most ME vets thought was going to be impossible, now they actually make sense!

Hats off BioWare, i was skeptical about EC alot / was not holding my breath before, but EC has fixed all that previously dident makes sense, but now does. So i will be checking EC out myself later today.
Thumps up BioWare from a fan  you proved me wrong BioWare!

Edit: my faith for future BioWare games (except DA3, unless they do something spectacular to that sequel) has being restored now aswell after seeing EC:D

Modifié par Vez04, 26 juin 2012 - 01:10 .

[LilyasAvalon]

JohnTheJohn wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

JohnTheJohn wrote...

Destroy ending was... pretty good. My mind hasn't been blown or anything but it's a nice ending with hope. You won me over Bioware!

*Grins evilly* Wait until you get to Synthesis.

Wasn't planning on checking it out cause Destroy made me happy enough, is it better?

Depends on your defination of 'better'. Some people say it's beautiful, some say it's creepy. I personally LAUGHED at Kasumi's personal ending.

CAN YOU PAINT WITH ALL THE COLOURS OF THE WIND~~~~~~~~~~?

[unreadierLizard]

The company that built Dragon Age Origins is gone, it seems - replaced by this "anything to sell sell sell" including dumbing down the genre so that 13 year olds would want to play with all the mindless action.

I didn't want to believe it, BW. I wanted to believe you still believed in good quality role playing games.

Games with endings like DA:Origins - kill the arch demon, your character either dies or lives - or you can make someone else kill it and they die.

Mass Effect and ME2's endings were awesome, too - the final battles were both gold.

But this. I mean - it seems the upper echelons of Bioware do not know what "negative fan reaction is" even if it walked up and mailed cupcakes to them(which it did).

Why not Indoctrination Theory? Why not take more time to close the game better?

I know, I know, money - but think about it this way; you'd make more money by spending more to make a satisfying ending, instead of rushing it out and losing customers and thus, money.

[nicocap24]

JohnTheJohn wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

JohnTheJohn wrote...

Destroy ending was... pretty good. My mind hasn't been blown or anything but it's a nice ending with hope. You won me over Bioware!

*Grins evilly* Wait until you get to Synthesis.

Wasn't planning on checking it out cause Destroy made me happy enough, is it better?

I didn't particularly like it, my favorite was Control. Synthesis is much better than before though. 

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I am glad to see that more people understand Synthesis and Control now. The new endings were what I basically already assumed happened in those endings anyway, so that may be why I'm not as blown away by the changes.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 26 juin 2012 - 01:02 .

[BrookerT]

Synthesis is easily one of the saddest endings ( in a good way) I seen, while simultaneously being the best.

[GHOST OF FRUITY]

Well done Bioware and thank you for taking the time to address this issue. For me, your work has made a huge difference to ME3. The new endings are full of hope for the galaxies future, a sense of victory achieved where as the original endings were full of despair.

[soultaker65]

The Control and Synthesis endings are amazing, the Destroy ending is ok nothing special, Refusal is kind of depressing. If those were the ending from the very beginning no would have hated it.