517 réponses à ce sujet

[Stalker]

I don't understand how anyone who rejects the solutions could have expected to get a happy ending...

This was clearly meant to be the support for the IT people. With that little part of Harbinger voice they keep the theory alive.

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 26 juin 2012 - 09:53 .

[Welsh Inferno]

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't understand how anyone who rejects the solutions could have expected to get a happy ending...

They thought defeating the Reapers conventionally was possible. 'Tis all.

[manwiththemachinegun]

I like how for months, people were endlessly ****ing saying

"Give us the option to say F-U to the Reapers, let us go down fighting, and entrust our knowledge to the next cycle."

I literally heard about a dozen of the most diehard ending haters say this would completely satisfy them, if only the evil Bioware had given them the chance.

And you're given EXACTLY THAT ENDING, after being explicitly told the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

You're given an epilogue showing that the next cycle was ABLE to defeat the Reapers thanks to Shepard and Liara's knowledge.

And the only reaction from the 'fans' is, "Boo hoo, Bioware is spitting in our face."

Seriously, this is just pathetic.

Anyway, back to the red ending! Canon of course since Zaeed and Jessie retire.

Modifié par manwiththemachinegun, 26 juin 2012 - 09:56 .

[Geneaux486]

Shepard basically had the Catalyst admit defeat to him, told him how the Crucible (which was designed, built, and connected by organics) could work, how *his own weapon* could stop the Reapers, and in the refusal ending, Shepard basically tells the Catalyst "I refuse your surrender, I'm disobeying direct orders from my superiors and sending all of my loved ones to the grave because I'm too prideful to use my own weapon to beat you in a way that I'm free to choose". The resulting genocide is natural selection at work, really.

[Sepharih]

manwiththemachinegun wrote...

I like how for months, people were endlessly ****ing saying

"Give us the option to say F-U to the Reapers, let us go down fighting, and entrust our knowledge to the next cycle."

I literally heard about a dozen of the most diehard ending haters say this would completely satisfy them, if only the evil Bioware had given them the chance.

And you're given EXACTLY THAT ENDING, after being explicitly told the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

You're given an epilogue showing that the next cycle was ABLE to defeat the Reapers thanks to Shepard and Liara's knowledge.

And the only reaction from the 'fans' is, "Boo hoo, Bioware is spitting in our face."

I never said taht, and I'm sure the people who did are quite satisfied.

[Stalker]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't understand how anyone who rejects the solutions could have expected to get a happy ending...

They thought defeating the Reapers conventionally was possible. 'Tis all.

I accept that people actually thought it was possible as much as I like BioWare for deciding it isn't.

Everything we know about Reapers and everything that has been shown to that point, clearly hints that a conventional battle can not be won.
I just dislike people who get angry about that fact. It's like jumping off a cliff and complain about broken bones...

Modifié par Mr Massakka, 26 juin 2012 - 10:01 .

[CmnDwnWrkn]

I laughed so hard when the child's voice went demonic. OMG that was pure comedy

[Han Shot First]

Blue Liara wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I love it. I think it completely debunks the indoctrination theory, which is probably the purpose of the new ending. It clarifies that IT was load of rubbish from the start.

Of course the people who spent the last three months preaching IT and flaming everyone who didn't buy into their delusions, predictably hate it.

Explain why the starchild had the voice of Harbringer then?

He sounds like a Reaper because he is the collective intelligence of the Reapers. He explains it if Shepard aks him what exactly the Catalyst is.

Star Brat being a Reaper (or something related to it) does not necessarily make Shepard indoctrinated. In fact the Indoctrination Theory gets thoroughly debunked when Shepard refused to listen to Star Child at all, and dooms all of the current civilizations to extinction. Shepard clearly isn't indoctrinated in that ending, but fails spectacularly in saving the current civilizations.

[Geneaux486]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I laughed so hard when the child's voice went demonic. OMG that was pure comedy

That unnerved me a bit, only because I didn't know it was coming.  For a split second we get a glimpse of what this thing really is.  Suddenly the child-form doesn't seem so bad XD

[Persephone]

I loved that the option was given. Now you aren't "forced to listen". You can say no. And that the next cycle was saved and hope restored, it was worth it. All of it.

I loved my Shep being defiant till the end. The way Jenn Hale delivered those lines was chilling/awesome.

"So be it!" literally made me jump.

So no new endings, huh? Well, Bioware, you just added another, you sneaky, magnificent bastards.

[Sepharih]

Mr Massakka wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't understand how anyone who rejects the solutions could have expected to get a happy ending...

They thought defeating the Reapers conventionally was possible. 'Tis all.

I accept that people actually thought it was possible as much as I like BioWare for deciding it isn't.

Everything we know about Reapers and everything that has been shown to that point, clearly hints that a conventional battle can not be won. I just dislike people who get angry about that fact.

I get angry about it because people just seem to completely ignore the fact that we're dealing with a fictional universe that only folllows the rules and laws bioware establishes.  A fictional universe which is drenched in themes about defying fate and overcoming impossible odds.

The only reason a conventional victory is impossible in the game is because bioware wants it to be.

[Geneaux486]

Sepharih wrote...

I get angry about it because people just seem to completely ignore the fact that we're dealing with a fictional universe that only folllows the rules and laws bioware establishes.  A fictional universe which is drenched in themes about defying fate and overcoming impossible odds.

The only reason a conventional victory is impossible in the game is because bioware wants it to be.

It logically follows what we saw the Reapers being capable of in the previous two games.  Plus, the Crucible itself is the result of overcoming impossible odds and creating a weapon that can stop the Reapers.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 10:07 .

[_Flipp_]

Sepharih wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

I don't understand how anyone who rejects the solutions could have expected to get a happy ending...

They thought defeating the Reapers conventionally was possible. 'Tis all.

I accept that people actually thought it was possible as much as I like BioWare for deciding it isn't.

Everything we know about Reapers and everything that has been shown to that point, clearly hints that a conventional battle can not be won. I just dislike people who get angry about that fact.

I get angry about it because people just seem to completely ignore the fact that we're dealing with a fictional universe that only folllows the rules and laws bioware establishes.  A fictional universe which is drenched in themes about defying fate and overcoming impossible odds.

The only reason a conventional victory is impossible in the game is because bioware wants it to be.

Yeah nevermind that the whole story revolves around the fact that you need something to defeat the reapers because you can't do that conventionally.

If in the refuse option the civilization would win vs the reapers - THAT would be space magic - and THAT would be a freakin f*** you to us.
I think it was just consequent to make Refusal the worst ending.

Only critic I can support is that it feels like the " neglected" ending because its way shorter than the others..

[Creighton72]

Personally I think the 4th ending is nothing more than a clue. I don't think it's an ending at all, but ties itself to the story. The moment the Catalyst spoke with the reaper voice, seems to be one big screaming warning about him. Then I look at destroy which is not really a bad ending except for the sacrifice of the Geth and Edi. The races of the universe band together to overcome the Reaper destruction on their own. But when I look at the memorial wall scene, Shepards name does not go on the wall. At first I thought that was a slap in the face, but then started wondering why would you put a living person on a memorial wall. That seemed to be a second clue.

Take in the fact that the other two endings are both closer to warnings than they are good things. Control, one person basically becoming god. When has one person having all the power ever been good? Synergy the single push button ending that makes everything perfect. Don't really have to work for anything every again, everyone gets their wish. The to perfect world that has no price. Both of those are well established warnings signs in almost every form or writing genre ever.

My question is if you tie all the endings together did BioWare pull the wool over everyones eyes for a 4th game? Dropping suttle clues and warnings. You notice with all the endings they seem to not want to say certain things or reveal to much. They have done this twice. The clue in the starchilds voice switch, Shepard taking a breath and his memorial plaque not going up, the well established warning of one person having to much power and the classic disengenuous perfect world that is achieved with the push of a button. There is no perfect world where everything suddenly becomes easy.

Smells like a 4th game to me.

[manwiththemachinegun]

The reject ending is the logical combination of everything hinted at throughout the series.

Shepard constantly bemoans that the galaxy's failure to listen to him and take the Reaper threat seriously could doom them all.

The galaxy did not unite until they were forced to, they paid for their arrogance.

Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally. It takes dozens of ships, and multiple Dreadnoughts to kill even ONE full sized ships. The Reapers outnumber and outgun every race combined.

The point of the Crucible was a superweapon capable of equalizing things. Again, you are told over and over that other races took this option as their only hope, and were never able to fire it properly before being wiped out.

The catalyst is revealed as an Insane AI who killed and Reaperized its creators against their will. It thought it had destroyed all knowledge of the catalyst, and thus, discounted it as a threat. It only reveals the truth when Shepard is in a position to finally kill it or complete its programming in a way acceptable to it.

You don't want to commit the genocide of the Geth to kill the Reapers? You don't want to admit TIM was right and control them? You don't want to play God with the universe? Fine.

You flipped the bird to the Reapers and went down fighting. In a hopeless war that not even the Protheans at the height of their power could win. Your knowledge and expertise is passed to the next cycle, which takes the threat seriously and wins. You didn't die for nothing.

You can't save everyone, you shouldn't be able to. If you could, it would completely neuter the threat of the Reapers as being techno-GODS who have butchered and culled the galaxy before mankind ever existed. You must sacrifice to win. If you won't sacrifice, you don't deserve to win.

Modifié par manwiththemachinegun, 26 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[_Flipp_]

Creighton72 wrote...

Personally I think the 4th ending is nothing more than a clue. I don't think it's an ending at all, but ties itself to the story. The moment the Catalyst spoke with the reaper voice, seems to be one big screaming warning about him. Then I look at destroy which is not really a bad ending except for the sacrifice of the Geth and Edi. The races of the universe band together to overcome the Reaper destruction on their own. But when I look at the memorial wall scene, Shepards name does not go on the wall. At first I thought that was a slap in the face, but then started wondering why would you put a living person on a memorial wall. That seemed to be a second clue.

Take in the fact that the other two endings are both closer to warnings than they are good things. Control, one person basically becoming god. When has one person having all the power ever been good? Synergy the single push button ending that makes everything perfect. Don't really have to work for anything every again, everyone gets their wish. The to perfect world that has no price. Both of those are well established warnings signs in almost every form or writing genre ever.

My question is if you tie all the endings together did BioWare pull the wool over everyones eyes for a 4th game? Dropping suttle clues and warnings. You notice with all the endings they seem to not want to say certain things or reveal to much. They have done this twice. The clue in the starchilds voice switch, Shepard taking a breath and his memorial plaque not going up, the well established warning of one person having to much power and the classic disengenuous perfect world that is achieved with the push of a button. There is no perfect world where everything suddenly becomes easy.

Smells like a 4th game to me.

And what should this game be about?

Control / Synthesis: Shepard is gone for sure
Destroy:  Reapers are gone, so no more epic war going on
Refusal: Regarding Liaras transmission you will lose against the reapers, no matter what

[Sepharih]

[quote]Geneaux486 wrote...
It logically follows what we saw the Reapers being capable of in the previous two games.  Plus, the Crucible itself is the result of overcoming impossible odds and creating a weapon that can stop the Reapers.[/quote]

See below:


[quote]_Flipp_ wrote...

Yeah nevermind that the whole story revolves around the fact that you need something to defeat the reapers because you can't do that conventionally.

If in the refuse option the civilization would win vs the reapers - THAT would be space magic - and THAT would be a freakin f*** you to us. [/quote]

[/quote]
So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

[CasbynessPC]

I like it *because* it feels like pettiness on the part of Bioware. It is an ending to cherish forever, it's the ending that people here fought and held the line for.

Would have been funnier if they had put a big sign behind the spacebrat saying "NO SHOOTY POOR GHOST BABY WE LUB HIM!"

[Geneaux486]

Sepharih wrote...
So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

First of all, you didnt' spend three games putting together an armada.  You spent one because everyone waited until the last minute to get their **** together.  Second, the Crucible is the representation of evolution on a galactic scale, organics being wiped out over and over again until we get a civilization that's strong enough to finish the weapon that's been handed down and actually stop the Reapers.  It's no more cliche than anything else in the story.

[manwiththemachinegun]

Good, now hopefully in a few months we can discuss the story of ME3 without going to pieces over the endings.

[MIBO765]

Answerwing the question, who first made the plans for the Crucible, the Catalyst refuses to answer, saying, that theyr Name woult mean nothing to Shepard. But it would make perfect sense if they were the same, that createt the Catalyst. He also said "it changes me". Maybe not just in adding engery, but also in reprogramming the ai, That could explain, why the Catalyst activates the platform, on wich Shepard broke down and is forced to tell him the truth about the Crucible. Rejection could activate a code that liberates the Catalyst from his new programming?

But it still left open the question why the Catalyst dit not join in the first battle for the Citadel in ME1.

[_Flipp_]

Sepharih wrote...

So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

I actualy dont see what you exactly mean, but I just want to put this out:

EDI states on the FOB in London that the Reapers "Outnumber" and "Outgun" the galactic army by a great scale. She even says that the winning odds without the crucible are freakin low. So imo it really would be some kind of space magic or great coincidence if they armada could now just defeat the reapers.

[MetioricTest]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

My favorite ending with a very powerful message. Never submit, never surrender!

This. I really liked it. I'm considering making a topic about it I just doubt anyone would read it lol

[77boy84]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Sepharih wrote...
So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

First of all, you didnt' spend three games putting together an armada.  You spent one because everyone waited until the last minute to get their **** together.  Second, the Crucible is the representation of evolution on a galactic scale, organics being wiped out over and over again until we get a civilization that's strong enough to finish the weapon that's been handed down and actually stop the Reapers.  It's no more cliche than anything else in the story.

"How will this help against the reapers" has been the big question behind every decision in all three games.

You DID spend three games putting together a force to fight the reapers, it's just that Bioware decided to throw out ME1 and 2, and make only 3 relevant to how you fight the reapers.