517 réponses à ce sujet

[xistfirat]

manwiththemachinegun wrote...

I like how for months, people were endlessly ****ing saying

"Give us the option to say F-U to the Reapers, let us go down fighting, and entrust our knowledge to the next cycle."

I literally heard about a dozen of the most diehard ending haters say this would completely satisfy them, if only the evil Bioware had given them the chance.

And you're given EXACTLY THAT ENDING, after being explicitly told the Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.

You're given an epilogue showing that the next cycle was ABLE to defeat the Reapers thanks to Shepard and Liara's knowledge.

And the only reaction from the 'fans' is, "Boo hoo, Bioware is spitting in our face."

Seriously, this is just pathetic.

Anyway, back to the red ending! Canon of course since Zaeed and Jessie retire.

Don't blame all of us, I was one of the people saying "Give us the option to say F-U to the Reapers, let us go down fighting, and entrust our knowledge to the next cycle.", and now I am completely satisfied and happy with the products as a whole.

[lunamoondragon]

I wish that it were possible to win in all-out war. If someone managed to get a staggering amount of resources, something that makes the "Shepard lives" ending look easy as hell, then we shouldn't be "vastly outnumbered."

I'm happy with what Bioware gave us, but I felt like there was so much potential in the reject ending. That yes, failure was possible, and success would require a staggering amount of work that would make most gamers go "God dammit Bioware!" but it would be the beat-all-odds ending that we sent cupcakes and raised charity money for.
I would work for it, I'd get every stupid resource and get chased by Reapers all day. I'd play so much multiplayer it'd make me sick, and I'd even play over the first two games to make sure I got extra resources from completing sidequests.
It would be an epic venture, one that would end in the greatest crowning achievement of all.

But hey. It's done. No big deal.

[Unbel1ever]

"Reject" and its consequences was actually the ending I expected to see before I played ME3. I would have liked a cut-scene with little more "bang", though. Other than that, it's the ending that makes most sense from my point of view.

[Sepharih]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Sepharih wrote...
So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

First of all, you didnt' spend three games putting together an armada.  You spent one because everyone waited until the last minute to get their **** together.

The first two games plant the seeds for the armada.  Wrex and his support is a good example.

Geneaux486 wrote... 
Second, the Crucible is the representation of evolution on a galactic scale, organics being wiped out over and over again until we get a civilization that's strong enough to finish the weapon that's been handed down and actually stop the Reapers.  It's no more cliche than anything else in the story.

Like i've said many times, it's not the crucible which bugs me the most in the story...it's the catalyst and the price it requires which revolts me so much.  I just dislike the crucible because it's just a lazy plot device that feels tacked on, but I could live with it otherwise.

[Gorwyn87]

I felt this ending to be a slap in the face to be honest. While the idea itself is *exactly* what I was hoping for, how this ending was delivered is like an insult to people who didn't like the original choices. It's just a generic ending without any relevance of what you have accomplished. It couldn't have been that hard to let Liara tell them what her cycle has accomplished because of Shepard. There isn't any attempt to create a "bittersweet" touch either. This ending is just as half-assed as the original endings before the DLC.

[Razgaros]

I honestly have no idea why people would pick this ending. Let's thing about this realisticly, you have the choice to win the war in 3 different manner, and yet you are going to chose to let everyone down, just because you don't feel like it? Yes this is Shepard choice, but it has to be done for the greater good.

No matter how you look at it, if you ideology causes you to lets billions of people die because you want to die free, chances are it's not really a good one. And since you could destroy the reapers for good if you wanted, it's all the more stupid.

[Geneaux486]

Sepharih wrote...
The first two games plant the seeds for the armada.  Wrex and his support is a good example.

Yeah, you're gaining favors that can be called in on a later date, making friendships that'll help you in the long run, but that doesn't change the fact that before the Reapers attacked, and in most cases after as well, each race was still focusing on its own problems.  The Reapers got everyone with their pants down, and this is not contradictory to the state of things in the first two games.

Like i've said many times, it's not the crucible which bugs me the most in the story...it's the catalyst and the price it requires which revolts me so much.  I just dislike the crucible because it's just a lazy plot device that feels tacked on, but I could live with it otherwise.

Only way I'd agree that it was "tacked on" is if it were introduced later in the game than the very beginning.  Hell, it was even foreshadowed in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Still, the Crucible is an organic weapon, and it's functions were determined by those who modified the designs, not by the Catalyst.

[Sepharih]

_Flipp_ wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

I actualy dont see what you exactly mean, but I just want to put this out:

EDI states on the FOB in London that the Reapers "Outnumber" and "Outgun" the galactic army by a great scale. She even says that the winning odds without the crucible are freakin low. So imo it really would be some kind of space magic or great coincidence if they armada could now just defeat the reapers.

Yeah.....so it's space magic in the form of the crucible...or space magic in the form of the armada you've practically spent near 100 hours building including the prep work in ME 1 and 2.
I have 0 connection to option 1.  It's just another boring superweapon plot device.  Option 2 on the other hand is something I've been investing in throughout the trilogy.

If we have to deal with space magic and the magical hand wave from the writer in some form, i'll take the fleet thank you very much.

[Sidney]

Doing nothing is basically stupid. You are saying, "OK, Reapers win". The ending should almost be a punishment for making that "choice". Not sure why they added it other than poeple wanting to give the middle finger to the SK.

[Geneaux486]

Sepharih wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

I actualy dont see what you exactly mean, but I just want to put this out:

EDI states on the FOB in London that the Reapers "Outnumber" and "Outgun" the galactic army by a great scale. She even says that the winning odds without the crucible are freakin low. So imo it really would be some kind of space magic or great coincidence if they armada could now just defeat the reapers.

Yeah.....so it's space magic in the form of the crucible...or space magic in the form of the armada you've practically spent near 100 hours building including the prep work in ME 1 and 2.
I have 0 connection to option 1.  It's just another boring superweapon plot device.  Option 2 on the other hand is something I've been investing in throughout the trilogy.

If we have to deal with space magic and the magical hand wave from the writer in some form, i'll take the fleet thank you very much.

Difference is the Crucible isn't "space magic" whereas a conventional victory would be.

[fainmaca]

I really have an issue with how Bioware did this. A HUGE part of why I hated the plot of ME3 was the Crucible, which really should not have been in there. Basically Bioware are saying 'don't like the Crucible? Then everyone you care about dies.'

[wickedgoodreed]

The reject ending is a nice addition for all those absolute deontologists out there. Considering the devs stance on not changing the endings, it is surprising that it was even an option. I didn't interpret it as an insult. Then again, I didn't unknowingly trigger it by attempting to shoot the child-shaped apparition in the face; that's just plain funny.

[_Flipp_]

Sepharih wrote...

Yeah.....so it's space magic in the form of the crucible...or space magic in the form of the armada you've practically spent near 100 hours building including the prep work in ME 1 and 2.
I have 0 connection to option 1.  It's just another boring superweapon plot device.  Option 2 on the other hand is something I've been investing in throughout the trilogy.

If we have to deal with space magic and the magical hand wave from the writer in some form, i'll take the fleet thank you very much.

First of all in part two you don't build any aramada - but be that as it be.

Second: Maybe you spent all the time gathering people, fleets and ships. Maybe it is an huge armada. But its just not enough vs the reapers. Period. I mean even the protheans couldnt defeat them..

[Sepharih]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Sepharih wrote...
The first two games plant the seeds for the armada.  Wrex and his support is a good example.

Yeah, you're gaining favors that can be called in on a later date, making friendships that'll help you in the long run, but that doesn't change the fact that before the Reapers attacked, and in most cases after as well, each race was still focusing on its own problems.  The Reapers got everyone with their pants down, and this is not contradictory to the state of things in the first two games.

Doesn't mattter, armada still grows from the seeds I planted in those games.  Point still stands.

Geneaux486 wrote... 
Only way I'd agree that it was "tacked on" is if it were introduced later in the game than the very beginning.  Hell, it was even foreshadowed in Lair of the Shadow Broker.  Still, the Crucible is an organic weapon, and it's functions were determined by those who modified the designs, not by the Catalyst.

Look up cut and paste deus ex machina.  It's not mentioned until game 3 (the last game in the story arc), its tacked on.
Also, the choices we're granted are still antithetical to the themes of the story, one of which the newly established central antagonist considers "the final evolution of life", so it doesn't matter to me whether he created those choices or not.  I'll take the fleet thank you.

[Geneaux486]

_Flipp_ wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

Yeah.....so it's space magic in the form of the crucible...or space magic in the form of the armada you've practically spent near 100 hours building including the prep work in ME 1 and 2.
I have 0 connection to option 1.  It's just another boring superweapon plot device.  Option 2 on the other hand is something I've been investing in throughout the trilogy.

If we have to deal with space magic and the magical hand wave from the writer in some form, i'll take the fleet thank you very much.

First of all in part two you don't build any aramada - but be that as it be.

Second: Maybe you spent all the time gathering people, fleets and ships. Maybe it is an huge armada. But its just not enough vs the reapers. Period. I mean even the protheans couldnt defeat them..

If you actually had spent three games literally building the armada then maybe a conventional victory would have worked, but nothing less than years of dedicated unanimous preparation would have made such a thing possible.

Doesn't mattter, armada still grows from the seeds I planted in those games.  Point still stands.

Your point absolutely does not still stand.  Everyone got hit hard by the Reapers, losing their home planets, their war assets, everything.  You're building an armada from the leftovers in ME3, that makes a conventional victory essentially impossible.

It's not mentioned until game 3 (the last game in the story arc), its tacked on.

It's uncovered at the beginning of the final arc, and no, it is not tacked on.  It's a goal you're working towards for the entire game.

Also, the choices we're granted are still antithetical to the themes of the story,

No they're not.
 

 I'll take the fleet thank you.

You're given that option now.  Do it and see what happens.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[Sepharih]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Difference is the Crucible isn't "space magic" whereas a conventional victory would be.

Funny.

_Flipp_ wrote...

Second: Maybe you spent all the time gathering people, fleets and ships. Maybe it is an huge armada. But its just not enough vs the reapers. Period. I mean even the protheans couldnt defeat them..

Protheans were too homogenized and when it hit the fan the empire scattered and couldn't unite.  Again, having the fleet win follows through on the theme of unity with diversity.

[No_MSG]

_Flipp_ wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

So....basically it's space magic in the form of a cliche boring done to death plot device, or space magic in the form of a galaxy and armada that I've spent 3 whole games building and putting together.

hmmmmm......decisions, decisions.

I actualy dont see what you exactly mean, but I just want to put this out:

EDI states on the FOB in London that the Reapers "Outnumber" and "Outgun" the galactic army by a great scale. She even says that the winning odds without the crucible are freakin low. So imo it really would be some kind of space magic or great coincidence if they armada could now just defeat the reapers.

And yet every time I've met a Reaper, it's died. 

[Geneaux486]

Sepharih wrote...
Protheans were too homogenized and when it hit the fan the empire scattered and couldn't unite.  Again, having the fleet win follows through on the theme of unity with diversity.

Having the fleet win would contradict not only the established strength of the Reapers but also the apathy towards the Reaper threat exhibited in the first two games.  Unlike the endings we have now, it actually would be a huge plothole.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[CasbynessPC]

"Ah yes, gunshots to my head, we have dismissed this cycle".

[_Flipp_]

Sepharih wrote...
Protheans were too homogenized and when it hit the fan the empire scattered and couldn't unite.  Again, having the fleet win follows through on the theme of unity with diversity.

Yeah unity with diversity - sounds nice and may also BE nice in a social sense. But under a military point of view I don't think it makes that of a difference. In contrary - I think a trained homogen army/fleet can work together way better than scattered units from different species.
So whats the upside of this? It's not even that there are some special tactics, because they launch a full scale frontal assault on the reapers. I think its about numbers, not diversity...

[No_MSG]

The only problem I have with the reject ending is that I want to see everyone dying.

Otherwise, fighting to defend things such as equality in diversity, that's a cause worth dying for.

[_Flipp_]

No_MSG wrote...
And yet every time I've met a Reaper, it's died.

I actually give you that one - Regarding the fact that reapers are actually so freakin powerful, Shep kills a lot of them...

[Geneaux486]

_Flipp_ wrote...

No_MSG wrote...
And yet every time I've met a Reaper, it's died.

I actually give you that one - Regarding the fact that reapers are actually so freakin powerful, Shep kills a lot of them...

Only when there's one Reaper, and a whole bunch of other big guns to back Shepard up.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 10:49 .

[No_MSG]

_Flipp_ wrote...

No_MSG wrote...
And yet every time I've met a Reaper, it's died.

I actually give you that one - Regarding the fact that reapers are actually so freakin powerful, Shep kills a lot of them...

It really is the biggest problem with the ending, and why it sucks so hard.  Bioware repeatedly TELLS us the Reapers can't be beaten, and yet repeatedly SHOWS us that they can.  So it makes it hard to swallow that I need to fire the War Crime Cannon to stop this threat.

[Supercollider]

Firstly, a disclaimer--I watched a clip of the rejection ending when I heard there was a new one, because I only just got home from work. I was intrigued, however, that they added something new.

Its an interesting gesture, but it sort of highlights why a lot of people didn't like the endings in the first place. You get the chance to fight with the fleet you've created... and you all die. So the only way to win the war is to just accept the deus ex machina that appears out of nowhere at the end.

Choosing to fight the war on your own terms, which thematically fits the best, and everyone getting killed isn't satisfying to me, especially because both ME1 and ME2 were about overcoming impossible odds (imagine, for example, that as you prepared for the Suicide Mission, a totally new character appeared and gave you brand new options, and if you actually do the mission you prepared for, everyone dies). It's actually bizarre, because normally Bioware is very, VERY good at creating compelling stories that succeed in a literary sense. It remains perplexing that they'd drop the ball at the last second, and the rejection ending just reminded me of why the end of the game was so befuddling the first time--if its not YOUR efforts that succeed (because its the Catalyst's efforts that do), then its not going to be a satisfying finale. That's why deus ex machina is a reviled literary device in the first place.