517 réponses à ce sujet

[Sharkey1337]

A conventional win could work (having a SUPER high EMS) if maybe Shepard caused the Citadel itself to be destroyed (via comlink to Hackett to have the fleet attack it), thus weakening the Reapers. Why the Citadel? Well the Catalyst referred to itself as the Reaper's collective intelligence, destroy that and I'm sure it's gonna mess them up.

I would absolutely love the option of having enough EMS to reject the Catalyst and have a legit galactic win against the Reapers at the cost of the Citadel (and everyone still alive on it) and Shepard. Maybe even mess up Earth pretty bad as well from its destruction. At least give us the obtainable option from hard work to get this ending. While not being the "best case scenario", it at least allows us to reject the Reapers and still kick their ass in this current cycle.

Modifié par Sharkey1337, 26 juin 2012 - 10:52 .

[Geneaux486]

No_MSG wrote...
It really is the biggest problem with the ending, and why it sucks so hard.  Bioware repeatedly TELLS us the Reapers can't be beaten, and yet repeatedly SHOWS us that they can.  So it makes it hard to swallow that I need to fire the War Crime Cannon to stop this threat.

It took multiple fleets to take down Soveriegn, WHILE he was preoccupied with trying to connect with the Citadel.  It took concentrated fire from a quarian fleet (three times) to kill one Destroyer, a giant mutant space worm to kill another, and a small nuclear explosion to kill the final one.  And those were three of the weaker variety.  Thousands of that = the story needs a game changer.  A conventional victory would have required a retcon not only to the first two games but to stuff that we see happen in the final game.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 10:53 .

[Sepharih]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Your point absolutely does not still stand.  Everyone got hit hard by the Reapers, losing their home planets, their war assets, everything.  You're building an armada from the leftovers in ME3, that makes a conventional victory essentially impossible.

Nothing is impossible in the realm of fiction.

Geneaux486 wrote... 
It's uncovered at the beginning of the final arc, and no, it is not tacked on.  It's a goal you're working towards for the entire game.

Like I said, look up cut and paste deus ex machina.

Geneaux486 wrote...  
No they're not.

 
Yup, they are, sorry.

Geneaux486 wrote... 
You're given that option now.  Do it and see what happens.

Worked out pretty well for me in my head canon.

_Flipp_ wrote...

Sepharih wrote...
Protheans were too homogenized and when it hit the fan the empire scattered and couldn't unite.  Again, having the fleet win follows through on the theme of unity with diversity.

Yeah unity with diversity - sounds nice and may also BE nice in a social sense. But under a military point of view I don't think it makes that of a difference. In contrary - I think a trained homogen army/fleet can work together way better than scattered units from different species.
So whats the upside of this? It's not even that there are some special tactics, because they launch a full scale frontal assault on the reapers. I think its about numbers, not diversity...

We're talking about a fictional universe and storytelling.   Unity with diversity is an important them and is held up as a strength through the entirety of the series, and that's more important than real world military tactics in the realm of fiction and drama.

[TudorWolf]

I kinda liked the concept of this ending. Our cycle failed, but did enough to let the next one succeed. That's bittersweet in a way I can get behind.

Conventional victory was always impossible. Bioware have actually been quite consistent about that. There's always isolated victories, but at the end of the day the reapers are simply too strong and/or numerous to defeat. Past cycles have killed reapers too and they didn't succeed (see: the klendagon cannon and the derelict reaper, for example). I do think they were idiots to create the Destroyer class reapers with view to something that could actually be fought on foot though, because that just lulled people into thinking it was possible to defeat the reapers in general without too much hassle.

[Battalion]

That ending surprised me. I always shot the Starchild when I got to the end. I thought he was going to kill Shepard when he said "So be it".

[Sidney]

_Flipp_ wrote...

No_MSG wrote...
And yet every time I've met a Reaper, it's died.

I actually give you that one - Regarding the fact that reapers are actually so freakin powerful, Shep kills a lot of them...

He kills:

1. 2 "little" ones
2. An embyro one
3. A major battlewagon but he kills it from the inside out somehow when it assumes control of electro-frog.

He never just took out a captial ship in a stand up fight.

[Sepharih]

Geneaux486 wrote...

No_MSG wrote...
It really is the biggest problem with the ending, and why it sucks so hard.  Bioware repeatedly TELLS us the Reapers can't be beaten, and yet repeatedly SHOWS us that they can.  So it makes it hard to swallow that I need to fire the War Crime Cannon to stop this threat.

It took multiple fleets to take down Soveriegn, WHILE he was preoccupied with trying to connect with the Citadel.  It took concentrated fire from a quarian fleet (three times) to kill one Destroyer, a giant mutant space worm to kill another, and a small nuclear explosion to kill the final one.  And those were three of the weaker variety.  Thousands of that = the story needs a game changer.  A conventional victory would have required a retcon not only to the first two games but to stuff that we see happen in the final game.

Still missing the point.  If you want these things to be considered invincible and unstopable by a conventional fleet then it's probably not best to show your central protagonist killing one at every story beat....makes it kind of hard to swallow that the fleet you've built up doesn't even have a chance in hell.

[Dunsky5]

I just did that ending and im gonna go try the other ones out but this one was my first one and i thought it was garbage. Everyone dies just like in the original ending. Great.

[No_MSG]

Sidney wrote...

_Flipp_ wrote...

No_MSG wrote...
And yet every time I've met a Reaper, it's died.

I actually give you that one - Regarding the fact that reapers are actually so freakin powerful, Shep kills a lot of them...

He kills:

1. 2 "little" ones
2. An embyro one
3. A major battlewagon but he kills it from the inside out somehow when it assumes control of electro-frog.

He never just took out a captial ship in a stand up fight.

Nor did I lose to a capital ship in a stand up fight.  Or any fight other than a Reaper sucker punch.

[Geneaux486]

Nothing is impossible in the realm of fiction.

True, but contradicting one's own fiction in such an outrageous way would have ruined the story.

Like I said, look up cut and paste deus ex machina.

The Crucible does not qualify as a deus ex machina.

Yup, they are, sorry.

Sacrifice, evolution, hope, victory against impossible odds, these themes are all present in the endings to Mass Effect 3.

Worked out pretty well for me in my head canon.

Not super relevant when we're discussing the actual story as opposed to your headcanon.

[NubXL]

It's a solid addition. The only thing that could have made it better would have been your forces prevailing if you had high enough EMS, instead of falling victim to the cycle. I wouldn't be surprised to find out they had been throwing around that idea, but ran into technical hurdles, like the 2gb Xbox download limit.

[No_MSG]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Like I said, look up cut and paste deus ex machina.

The Crucible does not qualify as a deus ex machina.

Yes, yes it does.  It fires a beam of everybody but Shepard lives.  Or robots die but Shepard lives.  I think in the Synthesis ending I saw an alliance soldier fist bump a husk.

[_Flipp_]

Sepharih wrote...
We're talking about a fictional universe and storytelling.   Unity with diversity is an important them and is held up as a strength through the entirety of the series, and that's more important than real world military tactics in the realm of fiction and drama.

On the one hand you complain about "space magic" in the crucible and space child, on the other hand you say "this is science fiction so reasonable submissions don't count"  ... ?!

In the end youre just saying you want a happy ending..,.

[Reptilian Rob]

Reject = Big fat BW middle finger to us who wanted a different ending.

Horrendously implemented.

[Geneaux486]

No_MSG wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Like I said, look up cut and paste deus ex machina.

The Crucible does not qualify as a deus ex machina.

Yes, yes it does.  It fires a beam of everybody but Shepard lives.  Or robots die but Shepard lives.  I think in the Synthesis ending I saw an alliance soldier fist bump a husk.

For it to be a deus ex machina it would have to be discovered at the last possible second, and it would have to suddenly fix everything with no negative consequences.  No, the Crucible is not a deus ex machina.

Reject = Big fat BW middle finger to us who wanted a different ending.

It's the logical outcome of refusing the use the Crucible.  Bioware simply refused to retcon the hell out of their story to please the people who wanted a brand new ending catered specifically to them for free.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 11:00 .

[Sweawm]

Reject Ending is awesome, especially with Renegade FemShep. Go Freedom! We're all dead!

[No_MSG]

Geneaux486 wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Like I said, look up cut and paste deus ex machina.

The Crucible does not qualify as a deus ex machina.

Yes, yes it does.  It fires a beam of everybody but Shepard lives.  Or robots die but Shepard lives.  I think in the Synthesis ending I saw an alliance soldier fist bump a husk.

For it to be a deus ex machina it would have to be discovered at the last possible second, and it would have to suddenly fix everything with no negaive consequences.  No, the Crucible is not a deus ex machina.

Try again

[Ranger Jack Walker]

So...

Why does the Catalyst's voice freak out for that one line?

[MIBO765]

_Flipp_ wrote...

Sepharih wrote...

Yeah.....so it's space magic in the form of the crucible...or space magic in the form of the armada you've practically spent near 100 hours building including the prep work in ME 1 and 2.
I have 0 connection to option 1.  It's just another boring superweapon plot device.  Option 2 on the other hand is something I've been investing in throughout the trilogy.

If we have to deal with space magic and the magical hand wave from the writer in some form, i'll take the fleet thank you very much.

First of all in part two you don't build any aramada - but be that as it be.

Second: Maybe you spent all the time gathering people, fleets and ships. Maybe it is an huge armada. But its just not enough vs the reapers. Period. I mean even the protheans couldnt defeat them..

Protheans couldn't gether theyr ships together, because the reapers took over the Citadel first and switched off the portals. And it took more than 100 years to defeat the protheans... what would have been the comeout, if the protheans could rasemble all theyr fleets to one big armada?

Edit: Take a look in your lore. There is an entry that says, that a reaper can't stand the fire of 3 battleships.

Modifié par MIBO765, 26 juin 2012 - 11:03 .

[Sepharih]

Geneaux486 wrote...
True, but contradicting one's own fiction in such an outrageous way would have ruined the story.

I find this ammusing coming from a pro ender.

 

Geneaux486 wrote... 
The Crucible does not qualify as a deus ex machina.

It's a cut and paste deus ex machina.

Geneaux486 wrote... 
Sacrifice, evolution, hope, victory against impossible odds, these themes are all present in the endings to Mass Effect 3.

And unity with diversity, determinism versus fatalism?

Geneaux486 wrote...  
Not super relevant when we're discussing the actual story as opposed to your headcanon.

It is when i'm criticising the writer's creative choices.

[Tocquevillain]

Sovereign24 wrote...

I love it.

I just found it stupid that (in the initial ending) there was no option where the cycle continued.

Good stuff Bioware.

That's because the Reapers being dealt with is canon. Considering there are more Mass Effect games being made, they needed some canon.

[Geneaux486]

No_MSG wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

No_MSG wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Like I said, look up cut and paste deus ex machina.

The Crucible does not qualify as a deus ex machina.

Yes, yes it does.  It fires a beam of everybody but Shepard lives.  Or robots die but Shepard lives.  I think in the Synthesis ending I saw an alliance soldier fist bump a husk.

For it to be a deus ex machina it would have to be discovered at the last possible second, and it would have to suddenly fix everything with no negaive consequences.  No, the Crucible is not a deus ex machina.

Try again

It's essentially what I said it was, and the Crucible still does not fit those criteria.  So good job on the petered out condecension.

[Supercollider]

I agree that the Crucible isn't a deus ex machina but the Catalyst is, so I think the point remains valid.

[SuperZombieChow]

I was just glad to see the option there. It wasn't a personal insult to me, it was the inclusion of something fans asked for from the beginning: the chance to tell the starchild to go screw himself. There are consequences to that choice, but the choice was there.

Would I have liked a "reject and win conventionally with 6k EMS" ending? Sure. But I was happy enough that I got to call starbrat on his bull****.

[Geneaux486]

I find this ammusing coming from a pro ender.

You're easily ammused.

It's a cut and paste deus ex machina.

It's not.

And unity with diversity, determinism versus fatalism?

How'd the Crucible get built and plugged in again?  Oh right, through the cooperation of multiple species setting aside their differences.

It is when i'm criticising the writer's creative choices.

In those situations it's best to use what's actually in the story as opposed to your imagination.

 agree that the Crucible isn't a deus ex machina but the Catalyst is, so I think the point remains valid.

The Catalyst's place in the lore is much greater than its role in the telling of the story.  It's used as an expositional tool, hard for me to consider it active enough to be an ex machina.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 11:07 .