517 réponses à ce sujet

[M0keys]

Shaoken wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

taggen86 wrote...

For all u people that wanted a reject starchild "happy" ending. It is possible but it reuires tons of space magic. Took the whole citadel fleet to kill one of the class 1 reapers (sovereign). Good luck killing hundreds of these with conventional weapons. Not even the protheans did this.

took a big worm to kill one too.

It took a big worm to kill the smallest type of Reaper.

by me3's last mission we've been seeing lots of reapers getting destroyed and according to the highest EMS results on the war room, the allied forces have been able to fend off reaper attacks.

Even in that case, it's just delaying the inevitable. They're holding off the Reapers in the systems where the Reapers don't have the strongest presence. Earth is getting destroyed, Pavelon, even with the Krogan, is still a losing battle, and the Reapers have the advantage of never tiring and needing very little in way of supplies while being able to take every dead organic they get their hands on and turn them into husks.

my big problem is that they never showed us how godlike and impossible the reapers really were. if bioware show reapers blowing up palaven, then, yeah, i'd say, "okay now something like the crucible is required"

but nothing like that happened. it's all inferred

[Rafe34]

Shaoken wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Since March, many people wanted to reject the endings entirely and take their chances against the Reapers despite being told numerous time how they can't be defeated without the Crucible.
Bioware gave those people exactly what they wanted. They stuck to their morals and went down fighting.

Why could we not blow up the Charon Relay and take the Reapers with us?

That at least would have been a realistic, sacrificial ending. I see no reason why the Reapers would survive that.

Because to destroy a relay you need to take a large solid object larger than a mass relay and throw it at said relay at FTL speeds. There's no ship big enough to do the job, and giant asteroids that are bigger than relays aren't exactly common in our solar system.

And even if there was one (or they just put a lot of engines and eezo cores on Pluto and used that), the Reapers know of that trick and could simply destroy the engines you're planning on using. And even if somehow you managed to hold them off long enough to hit the Relay, the relay explosion would only travel at the speed of light.

Reapers can travel at many, many times the speed of light, a speed of 30 light years a day (for comparison purposes the Normandy can only do 12). So all you'd achieve is deprive the Reapers of a single system. They'd just FTL jump away and head to the next inhabited system.

Throw the fleet at it.

Hell, throw the CRUCIBLE at it.

That thing is certainly big enough.

As far as them getting out... eh, there are ways around that.

They're so superior they don't think it will kill them.
The Geth have a virus that allows you to knock out their FTL drive, etc.

It'd be a damn sight better than what we got.

[Rafe34]

Shaoken wrote...

The entire premise of the series was that the Reapers were such a huge threat that they couldn't be defeated conventionly, the entire game was building up the fact that the Crucible was the only hope of victory, so anyone who thinks that rejecting the Starchild should lead to anything but the inevitable defeat of this cycle is just being every bit the entitled gamer that the early media made the retake movement out to be.

Way to generalize, buddy.

Also, just because the Reapers told us we couldn't beat them... we should believe we couldn't beat them. Yeah, okay.

Stornskar wrote...

If you have a high enough EMS, the Stargazer scene is what appears to be an Asari instead of old man Buzz Aldrin. This hints that they defeated the Reapers ... if you wanted to look at it with an optimistic lens

Can anyone confirm this? 

FlyinElk212 wrote...

I really liked the Refusal ending Bioware did. And the piano music right after Starchild leaves is incredibly touching. 

I just wish we saw more devastation than what we got. Like our war assets, even though they know they're going to lose, fighting bravely to the end. Grunt and Wrex giving that final bro nod before charging a few brutes. Zaeed surrounded by ravagers murmering, "Burn you sons of ****es" before triggering an inferno grenade that engulfs him and everything around him.

If they made that ending slightly longer it'd definitely be one of my favorite endings.

Yes, if they had put as much effort into it as they did into the other three, then it would be a passable ending. 

Modifié par Rafe34, 26 juin 2012 - 05:48 .

[Sashimi_taco]

I'd rather die than give into the ideas of what peace would be to a person who has no idea what any of those choices mean.

The star child. A perfect representation of the type of people who wrote him. Disconnected and unable to understand the consequences of the choices given.

[M0keys]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I'd rather die than give into the ideas of what peace would be to a person who has no idea what any of those choices mean.

The star child. A perfect representation of the type of people who wrote him. Disconnected and unable to understand the consequences of the choices given.

amen.

[VoraciousBeaver]

I really like how the "So be it" line is delivered. So... there's that.

[sp0ck 06]

Nezzer wrote...

I think the refusal ending should be the only one that takes our EMS into account and we should be able to win conventionally in that ending too, but with a much higher cost.
Below 2000 EMS: total defeat
3000 EMS: Reapers defeated, but most races are extinct, including humans, Shepard dies
4000 EMS: Reapers defeated, only humans are extinct, Shepard dies
5000 EMS or more: Reapers defeated, no race is extinct, Shepard lives

Wouldn't this pretty much fly in the face of everything we've been told over all three games?  The Reapers cannot be defeated in a straight up fight.  Period.

[Shaoken]

Rafe34 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Since March, many people wanted to reject the endings entirely and take their chances against the Reapers despite being told numerous time how they can't be defeated without the Crucible.
Bioware gave those people exactly what they wanted. They stuck to their morals and went down fighting.

Why could we not blow up the Charon Relay and take the Reapers with us?

That at least would have been a realistic, sacrificial ending. I see no reason why the Reapers would survive that.

Because to destroy a relay you need to take a large solid object larger than a mass relay and throw it at said relay at FTL speeds. There's no ship big enough to do the job, and giant asteroids that are bigger than relays aren't exactly common in our solar system.

And even if there was one (or they just put a lot of engines and eezo cores on Pluto and used that), the Reapers know of that trick and could simply destroy the engines you're planning on using. And even if somehow you managed to hold them off long enough to hit the Relay, the relay explosion would only travel at the speed of light.

Reapers can travel at many, many times the speed of light, a speed of 30 light years a day (for comparison purposes the Normandy can only do 12). So all you'd achieve is deprive the Reapers of a single system. They'd just FTL jump away and head to the next inhabited system.

Throw the fleet at it.

Hell, throw the CRUCIBLE at it.

That thing is certainly big enough.

Err, no. The Relays are conventionally indestructable due to that field around them, so anything you throw at it would simply hit that barrier and all of the energy would harmlessly wash over it. That's why they used something bigger than the entire relay; it was simply too much energy from too big an object to be deflected by the fields.

As far as them getting out... eh, there are ways around that.

They're so superior they don't think it will kill them.
The Geth have a virus that allows you to knock out their FTL drive, etc.

And how per chance would the Geth get this virus into the Reaper's OS? Especially since a single Reaper is the equivilant of an entire nation of sentients, and would individually be able to overpower any attempts at hacking them. Then factor in differences in design and programming; you can't make a virus for a Linux OS if you have no idea how Linux works, so you wouldn't be able to make a virus to affect a spaceship that you have no clue how it works.

[The Not So Illusive Man]

I loved the reject ending, it's exactly what I was hoping for in that regard, it also shoots down all the naysayers who claimed that we could have won conventionally. It really highlights just how much of a huge threat the reapers were to the galaxy, and I loved it.

[Iucounou]

Actually, the reject ending makes the most sense. There is no space magic involved, for one thing.

Plus, I kind of would like to believe that, 50,000 years into the next cycle, some alien race discovers Shepard in a stasis tube... all new races, plus the faint possibility, as the next game progresses, that maybe, just maybe, Shepard's LI went into a stasis pod him/herself... cue epic search, plus the Reapers are still there as a threat. Now, whilst I would miss the old crew, that I would buy into!

Also, you'd have to love that first confrontation between the reawakened Shepard and Harbinger. Epic wtf from Harby.

Modifié par Iucounou, 26 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[Asebstos]

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I'd rather die than give into the ideas of what peace would be to a person who has no idea what any of those choices mean.

The star child. A perfect representation of the type of people who wrote him. Disconnected and unable to understand the consequences of the choices given.

[The Not So Illusive Man]

Rafe34 wrote...

Stornskar wrote...

If you have a high enough EMS, the Stargazer scene is what appears to be an Asari instead of old man Buzz Aldrin. This hints that they defeated the Reapers ... if you wanted to look at it with an optimistic lens

Can anyone confirm this? 

Aye, if you wait through the credits for the reject ending, a presumable Asari discusses with a child how those that came before brought about peace through their efforts, though at great cost. All they know of this is gathered from the archives (guessing that's what Liara was dotting around the galaxy).

[Shaoken]

Rafe34 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

The entire premise of the series was that the Reapers were such a huge threat that they couldn't be defeated conventionly, the entire game was building up the fact that the Crucible was the only hope of victory, so anyone who thinks that rejecting the Starchild should lead to anything but the inevitable defeat of this cycle is just being every bit the entitled gamer that the early media made the retake movement out to be.

Way to generalize, buddy.

Also, just because the Reapers told us we couldn't beat them... we should believe we couldn't beat them. Yeah, okay.

The codex spells out that it takes four citadel race dreadnaughts concentrating fire on a single Reaper dreadnaught to break through it's barriers. The same codex that states that the only effective tactics against the Reapers is to move in and attack them from behind to avoid their guns, and that the Reapers fly in formation to counter this tactic. The same codex that states the Reapers targetting computers allow them to hit ships from a further distance than any of this cycle's races can do in return. And if you ask Hackett he even tells you that they can't win convientionally; even with max EMS all you've done is take a hopeless battle and turn it into a war of attrition.

[M0keys]

Shaoken wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Shaoken wrote...

The entire premise of the series was that the Reapers were such a huge threat that they couldn't be defeated conventionly, the entire game was building up the fact that the Crucible was the only hope of victory, so anyone who thinks that rejecting the Starchild should lead to anything but the inevitable defeat of this cycle is just being every bit the entitled gamer that the early media made the retake movement out to be.

Way to generalize, buddy.

Also, just because the Reapers told us we couldn't beat them... we should believe we couldn't beat them. Yeah, okay.

The codex spells out that it takes four citadel race dreadnaughts concentrating fire on a single Reaper dreadnaught to break through it's barriers. The same codex that states that the only effective tactics against the Reapers is to move in and attack them from behind to avoid their guns, and that the Reapers fly in formation to counter this tactic. The same codex that states the Reapers targetting computers allow them to hit ships from a further distance than any of this cycle's races can do in return. And if you ask Hackett he even tells you that they can't win convientionally; even with max EMS all you've done is take a hopeless battle and turn it into a war of attrition.

then there's no point in bringing the races together. seriously. it's all so contrived, I can't even think about it anymore...

Modifié par M0keys, 26 juin 2012 - 06:00 .

[Subject M]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

It seems that a lot of people are taking it quite poorly, as a slap in the face. This is totally understandable for the people who wanted a happier ending.

However, I don't think BioWare was deliberately trying to insult players by including it. The "reject but fail" is a pretty classic "die free rather than live as slaves" kind of outcome. Before the EC, it was already insinuated that doing nothing would lead the Reapers to victory - this just shows a bit more.

What say you?

I can respect it, but there on top that "failure to resist-ending"really should have been away to challenge the catalyst and get away with it. I don't think it should have been through martial might, but through organisation and fighting the common enemy (the Reapers) disporoving and breaking the cycle as admitted by the catalyst itself. (Which gives you the option of telling the catalyst to leave with its Reapers which thy also do).

[kristopherah]

VoraciousBeaver wrote...

I really like how the "So be it" line is delivered. So... there's that.

When i shot the catalyst (not knowing it would trigger a new ending) that SO BE IT! scared the p*ss and sh*t out of me 

[Zuka999]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Nezzer wrote...

I think the refusal ending should be the only one that takes our EMS into account and we should be able to win conventionally in that ending too, but with a much higher cost.
Below 2000 EMS: total defeat
3000 EMS: Reapers defeated, but most races are extinct, including humans, Shepard dies
4000 EMS: Reapers defeated, only humans are extinct, Shepard dies
5000 EMS or more: Reapers defeated, no race is extinct, Shepard lives

Wouldn't this pretty much fly in the face of everything we've been told over all three games?  The Reapers cannot be defeated in a straight up fight.  Period.

Then what is the point? The only way to win is with ****ty writing. Shepard should have been a badass, he should have told all those people saying we couldn't win to stop being a bunch of little girls. Then he should have kicked the Reapers asses anyways. You know, like he claimed he would the whole damn trilogy? We'll send you packing back to dark space!

Oh wait, no we wont. We'll all just lie down and die because you're too tough.

They wrote themselves really powerful villains, which is great. Good villains make good stories. But instead of being creative and writing themselves back out of their corner they just gave in to bad writing. The Crucible and the StarChild represent everything wrong with contemporary storytelling. Its garbage.

[sydranark]

Ubiquitous wrote...
But I still can't stop thinking about the starchild being BioWare. It's like "You want new endings?! SO BE IT!" and boom, everyone dies.

+all the internets

[MzAdventure]

I liked it.

[MzAdventure]

RustyMcBlade wrote...

People are sayin you can shoot the starchild, is there a video of this yet? Ive only seen the refusal ending without shooting the lil bastard

I shot at him the first time through, like I normally do, and sure enough, his voice got all "devil-deep" as he had his hissy fit.

I like the Liara beacon and stargazer scenes a lot.  In fact this stargazer scene is much better than gramps Buzz

[Marta Rio II]

I didn't take the "reject" ending as a slap in the face...I thought it was realistic given the choice. (Personally, I would have liked for it to have been a totally unrealistic victory ending, but that would have been kind of implausible...)

I would, however, liked to have seen more done with it (some epic character death scenes; seeing the fleet ripped to shreds, etc. etc.). It's rather underwhelming in its presentation. If the consequences for telling star kid to shove it have to be bad, then, well show us how bad they really are.

[Norwood06]

Zuka999 wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Nezzer wrote...

I think the refusal ending should be the only one that takes our EMS into account and we should be able to win conventionally in that ending too, but with a much higher cost.
Below 2000 EMS: total defeat
3000 EMS: Reapers defeated, but most races are extinct, including humans, Shepard dies
4000 EMS: Reapers defeated, only humans are extinct, Shepard dies
5000 EMS or more: Reapers defeated, no race is extinct, Shepard lives

Wouldn't this pretty much fly in the face of everything we've been told over all three games?  The Reapers cannot be defeated in a straight up fight.  Period.

Then what is the point? The only way to win is with ****ty writing. Shepard should have been a badass, he should have told all those people saying we couldn't win to stop being a bunch of little girls. Then he should have kicked the Reapers asses anyways. You know, like he claimed he would the whole damn trilogy? We'll send you packing back to dark space!

Oh wait, no we wont. We'll all just lie down and die because you're too tough.

They wrote themselves really powerful villains, which is great. Good villains make good stories. But instead of being creative and writing themselves back out of their corner they just gave in to bad writing. The Crucible and the StarChild represent everything wrong with contemporary storytelling. Its garbage.

I'd say BW wrote themselves invincible villains, and the problem is that the victories in ME3 underminded this fact. I would have been more willing to view the reapers as unstoppable if I hadn't beaten them (small reapers, I know, but still, I won) in Tuchanka & Rannoch.  But a game where the player spends 40 hours losing isn't going to have many fans. 

And given that the Reapers can't be beaten conventionally, the only way to survive is to build this reaper Crucible device to reprogram the reapers.  Writing this, I agree with you that ME isn't a good story.  Good villains make good stories, but are there any good stories with unbeatable villains? 

[blacqout]

It's made pretty clear that there is no hope of beating the Reapers conventionally. It took everything to build the crucible.

If some players are so stubborn that they refuse to accept what is clearly demonstrated, then they deserve to lose. It was nice of BioWare to give us the option. A really great touch, actually.

[MandaPanda81]

I agree that this was kind of a slap in the face, however I'm still glad it was included. We get to stand up and fight, win or lose on our own terms.

I REFUSE TO CHOOSE!

[Horaciuss]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Nezzer wrote...

I think the refusal ending should be the only one that takes our EMS into account and we should be able to win conventionally in that ending too, but with a much higher cost.
Below 2000 EMS: total defeat
3000 EMS: Reapers defeated, but most races are extinct, including humans, Shepard dies
4000 EMS: Reapers defeated, only humans are extinct, Shepard dies
5000 EMS or more: Reapers defeated, no race is extinct, Shepard lives

Wouldn't this pretty much fly in the face of everything we've been told over all three games?  The Reapers cannot be defeated in a straight up fight.  Period.

If i remember reapers win coz galaxy never stand united and they was fighting system by system when deactivating relays =p but that not happen in this cycle and in first two games i get feeling united galaxy can defeat them and that was why we try get all and prepare them