139 réponses à ce sujet

[BalianOfIbelin]

Rafe34, your tagline is hilariously ironic.

[Elite Midget]

Agreed, EC was too late and it didn't fix the endings being a mess. Worse is that Bioware decided to take a jab at their fanbase for not liking the skittle choices.

[ticklefist]

Too little too late were my exact thoughts as well.

[kiyomizu]

Elite Midget wrote...

Agreed, EC was too late and it didn't fix the endings being a mess. Worse is that Bioware decided to take a jab at their fanbase for not liking the skittle choices.

[Orenen]

JeosDinas wrote...

Please. That article's title should read "Mass Effect 3's Extended Cut: More than People Deserve."

You seem to be under the impression that anybody cares what you have to say...

[clos]

Man, Forbes delivers time and time again. BRAVO, BRAVO!!!!

From now on only Forbes/Gamefront reviews will be considered by me.

[AllergevKev]

You people act like because it's Forbes it automatically is the most credible thing in the world because this is a very professional magazine. Well it is, but the guy writing this stuff isn't really part of that at all. He writes solely for the online portion of Forbes, and only for these sorts of topics. While his opinion is as valid as anyone else, it's not anymore credible than any other gaming publication.

Back on topic, I respect what the article is saying, even though I disagree.

[kiyomizu]

AllergevKev wrote...

While his opinion is as valid as anyone else, it's not anymore credible than any other gaming publication.

*cough* IGN *cough*

[clos]

I see a lot of haters are ragging on a reliable NEUTRAL source such a Forbes, telling it like it is. If you like your reviewers sources to get paid by the company of the product that is being reviewed I direct you to IGN and other "professional" reviewers. I'm certain aforementioned paid reviews are guaranteed to please your pro-EC stance. EA/Bioware paid them enough to make sure they do.

[Captain_Obvious]

I sort of agree with the Forbes article, and I didn't get the ending I wanted, but I'm willing to recognize that Bioware responded to criticism that they did not have to. Good on them for that. It's appreciated, but in my case, not particularly useful.

On a further note, if we are just supposed to stop whining because Shepard deserves better fans, then I would ask if all of the people who disliked DA2 need to just get over it as well. I really liked DA2, but I can see how some people hated it. Am I not entitled to the same opinion with the ME3 ending? I hated it, but I can see how others liked it.

People still gripe about DA2, and there's no swarm of "oh just get over it already" that shows up. It just seems hypocritical to me. Anyway, thanks to Bioware for the effort.

[humes spork]

Rafe34 wrote...

Soooo.... does this same logic hold about IGN and Kotaku's articles that blatantly twisted what the fans actually wanted? They were just doing it to up their page-views? Or are they some noble souls that did it even though they knew their opinion would be disagreed with?

Funny how that works. The people who write something you disagree with obviously must be doing it for these selfish reasons, they can't possibly have an opinion that is different than yours without having an ulterior motive for holding it.

The arrogance of people on these boards, just lol.

...and just because I pointed out that a predominantly business publication just might be operating under a profit motive automatically means I'm a proender who loves IGN and Kotaku and treats them as sacrosanct while only criticizing sources with which I disagree. Or that I disagree with Forbes' articles on the topic.

All because I had the temerity to frame my commentary relevant to the topic at hand. Yet, I'm the arrogant one, especially while comments such as the following go completely unchallenged by those who would challenge my own.

I see a lot of haters are ragging on a reliable NEUTRAL source such a Forbes, telling it like it is. If you like your reviewers sources to get paid by the company of the product that is being reviewed I direct you to IGN and other "professional" reviewers. I'm certain aforementioned paid reviews are guaranteed to please your pro-EC stance. EA/Bioware paid them enough to make sure they do. 

Modifié par humes spork, 26 juin 2012 - 08:26 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Rafe34 wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

Well put.

No, it wasn't. Atreiya completely misses his point.

Actually, SHE didn't miss the point - per my actually reading the article and my subsequent urge to write up a snarky post after skimming the commentary in here (maybe the sarcasm flew over your head).

I'm utterly lacking in any sympathy for most of the endings haters at this point, specifically those people who are still hopelessly fixated on how they've been wronged and persecuted - and who think they're still being wronged and persecuted...and then wronged some more with an extra side-order of wrong because BW destroyed their trust in them and can never do enough to make up for it ever again, no matter what they do.

The EC is just way too late for BW to make up for the massive wrong perpetrated on all those poor souls who were mortally wounded by the fact that the endings were so wrong that they actually made the Earth stop its rotation for the last few months (true fact!). And so, for them, the great wrong is still so very wrong, never to be made right until the end of time (unless they get DLC so that they can have children with Liara and Tali I imagine).

Like I said, they should enjoy their future boycotting! I'm glad that the wait is over with because I've avoided this place for months just so that I didn't have to read the ongoing moaning about how wronged and persecuted the poor, downtrodden endings haters all are and how the EC wouldn't be enough for them. They now hate it like they promised to hate it because the EC didn't do exactly what they wanted (well, technically the suicide option got added in so...yay?). Huzzah, they can go pat themselves on the back for sticking to their guns! They can also keep moaning about this until Hell freezes over, but I'm 99% sure that it won't change anything.

[Rafe34]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Javo2357 wrote...

Well put.

No, it wasn't. Atreiya completely misses his point.

Actually, SHE didn't miss the point - per my actually reading the article and my subsequent urge to write up a snarky post after skimming the commentary in here (maybe the sarcasm flew over your head).

I'm utterly lacking in any sympathy for most of the endings haters at this point, specifically those people who are still hopelessly fixated on how they've been wronged and persecuted - and who think they're still being wronged and persecuted...and then wronged some more with an extra side-order of wrong because BW destroyed their trust in them and can never do enough to make up for it ever again, no matter what they do.

The EC is just way too late for BW to make up for the massive wrong perpetrated on all those poor souls who were mortally wounded by the fact that the endings were so wrong that they actually made the Earth stop its rotation for the last few months (true fact!). And so, for them, the great wrong is still so very wrong, never to be made right until the end of time (unless they get DLC so that they can have children with Liara and Tali I imagine).

Like I said, they should enjoy their future boycotting! I'm glad that the wait is over with because I've avoided this place for months just so that I didn't have to read the ongoing moaning about how wronged and persecuted the poor, downtrodden endings haters all are and how the EC wouldn't be enough for them. They now hate it like they promised to hate it because the EC didn't do exactly what they wanted (well, technically the suicide option got added in so...yay?). Huzzah, they can go pat themselves on the back for sticking to their guns! They can also keep moaning about this until Hell freezes over, but I'm 99% sure that it won't change anything.

I was referring to your specific example that you said promoted artistic integrity, which it doesn't. That wasn't his point at all in that paragraph, it was simply that this is too little, too late. It's his opinion. I think he's right, though I am glad they released EC as it did lessen the terrible endings somewhat. But I do believe his overall point is correct, people are not really going to get back into the ME universe just because of an extra five minutes of ending cutscenes. It simply doesn't hit with the same weight.

I don't think he's complaining at all, merely pointing out an unfortunate fact.

[onyx0218]

Too little too late is correct. I didn't even bother downloading this, because I know it can not fix what Bioware has done. Bioware, I'm sorry, but from now on as long as you are in EA's slimy hands, I can not support you. Farewell Bioware and Bioware forums. This account is going dark.

[Divitiacus]

AllergevKev wrote...

You people act like because it's Forbes it automatically is the most credible thing in the world because this is a very professional magazine. Well it is, but the guy writing this stuff isn't really part of that at all. He writes solely for the online portion of Forbes, and only for these sorts of topics. While his opinion is as valid as anyone else, it's not anymore credible than any other gaming publication.

Back on topic, I respect what the article is saying, even though I disagree.

They act like this because Forbes isn't going to represent itself in the newest and most important medium replacing print magazines daily by hiring people below their high standards as a professional publication.

[Rafe34]

humes spork wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Soooo.... does this same logic hold about IGN and Kotaku's articles that blatantly twisted what the fans actually wanted? They were just doing it to up their page-views? Or are they some noble souls that did it even though they knew their opinion would be disagreed with?

Funny how that works. The people who write something you disagree with obviously must be doing it for these selfish reasons, they can't possibly have an opinion that is different than yours without having an ulterior motive for holding it.

The arrogance of people on these boards, just lol.

...and just because I pointed out that a predominantly business publication just might be operating under a profit motive automatically means I'm a proender who loves IGN and Kotaku and treats them as sacrosanct while only criticizing sources with which I disagree. Or that I disagree with Forbes' articles on the topic.

All because I had the temerity to frame my commentary relevant to the topic at hand. Yet, I'm the arrogant one, especially while comments such as the following go completely unchallenged by those who would challenge my own.

I see a lot of haters are ragging on a reliable NEUTRAL source such a Forbes, telling it like it is. If you like your reviewers sources to get paid by the company of the product that is being reviewed I direct you to IGN and other "professional" reviewers. I'm certain aforementioned paid reviews are guaranteed to please your pro-EC stance. EA/Bioware paid them enough to make sure they do. 

I just asked a question. The second paragraph is not directed at you, but at people who hold the hypothetical position I outlined, which wasn't made clear, and is my fault for not doing so.

To answer your point, however, when you inevitably came back to my question with, "No it doesn't," as any intelligent person would, then the logical follow up to your original point is "So what?" Everyone does it, so either you simply ignore all of the reviews, or you do your best to judge them based on the points they bring up, regardless of their motive for bringing it up.

[clos]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

What are you still doing here if it's too little too late?... Seriously?

I'm here using my right as  consumer who pre-ordered and paid full price for this product to declare my displeasure with it. I will do it respectuflly and without breaking forum rules but I will do it whether you like it or not.

[Rafe34]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Prince_Valiant wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

What are you still doing here if it's too little too late?... Seriously?

We use the freedom of speech to communicate this circumstance.

Your freedom of speech is boring and doesn't contribute to nothing except blind hate at this point. Good thing most of you won't be able to talk when next BioWare game release as now the forum are lock for buyers .

Wait... did you just applaud the fact that the boards will now be more full of people who will like any game Bioware releases, since many of those in the other camp will be driven away by ME? 

Honestly? Isn't diversity a good thing?

Jeez, some people take this video game thing too seriously.

Modifié par Rafe34, 26 juin 2012 - 08:42 .

[OhDihBot]

Wow, what a great article. The author nailed it. I too was certain the that the IT was going to be brought out full force in the EC, and would rectify what was undoubtedly the worst ending to an epic trilogy in any media, into something brilliant. I was wrong, and as a result, I have lost faith in Bioware.

[humes spork]

Rafe34 wrote...

I just asked a question. The second paragraph is not directed at you, but at people who hold the hypothetical position I outlined, which wasn't made clear, and is my fault for not doing so.

To answer your point, however, when you inevitably came back to my question with, "No it doesn't," as any intelligent person would, then the logical follow up to your original point is "So what?" Everyone does it, so either you simply ignore all of the reviews, or you do your best to judge them based on the points they bring up, regardless of their motive for bringing it up.

That hypothetical position cuts both ways, and pointing out one thing doesn't necessarily imply a person holds all the views someone who would stereotypically take that position holds. Though, tempers (and derp) are running high and have been for months, so I can certainly understand defensiveness -- after all, I'm equally defensive of my own point of view if not more so for the fact I've taken flak by anti-enders and pro-enders alike for being ultimately ambivalent on the controversy.

Though, with that said in regards of reviews, that's precisely what I do -- pay them no mind, and use my own better judgment to make my own decisions about what media I consume. But, this Forbes article (and the others about the controversy) haven't been reviews -- they've been editorials about the game industry's business strategies and the nature of video games and their role in media. One or two may have been framed as reviews, but in the core they're still editorials about game development, public relations and business strategy, as certainly befits Forbes' format and focus as a business magazine. We could certainly have an involved conversation on whether media criticism at large qualifies as editorializing, but it's slightly beyond the frame of this discussion so I'll leave it at that.

To say that Forbes may (and in all likelihood, does) have a profit motive in publishing anti-ending content is not to discredit the content of their speech. Rather, it is to provide context especially when juxtaposed against more dedicated sources of game journalism that are frequently called out (and discredited) for having profit motive. To say that profit motive is no means for discrediting content is precisely what I'm getting at. And moreover, opinion pieces are still precisely that, not objective truth, and can only be agreed (or disagreed) with opposed to right or wrong in any absolute sense.

Which is why many members' of this community unabashed praise for Forbes as if it were the one game magazine to rule them all descended from Heaven above, and simultaneous universal criticism of game journalists for having profit motive, is particularly egregious. That's what I'm calling out, in this case.

[Father_Jerusalem]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Great, maybe now you can collectively declare the company and game universe dead and pick up the pieces of your shattered lives after your latest bitter disappointment. After all, BW obviously hates you because they spent all that time and effort to address a number of the concerns that people had about the endings. They made it crystal clear that this wasn't going to be a complete do-over. While the author clearly thinks the endings should have been perfect right out of the box and that the original flaws remain (which presumably equates to "the Catalyst still exists"), I should point out that the author of the article also said:


Quote from article: It was a respectable effort to try and please fans, but the point is that no one should have to go back and re-do something like this. I may not have liked the way Prometheus ended, but I don’t expect Ridley Scott to come out with a five minute extension of the ending three months after the movie hit theaters. That would be strange for any film, and despite the flexibility of the newer medium, it’s rather uncomfortable for a video game as well.


So, I'm really fascinated by this, all the endings haters agreeing with the article are actually acknowledging the idea of artistic integrity/creative control per the Prometheus passage? They sure must be if they think Forbes nailed it again - which means they possibly A) are being hypocritical genuinely had some sort of change in their philosophical stance C) actually do think the writing at the Forbes site is so awesome that they're compelled to mention it constantly or D) they didn't read that quoted passage very closely. I'm guessing that there might be this kneejerk "anything Forbes says is awesome because they supported endings haters!" response. Gotta love action without any thought behind it!

BW promised only an expansion on the existing endings and clarification, and that's what they delivered. You wanted to know that life goes on for your friends and everyone else, and that they don't die horribly due to starvation and being hopelessly stranded in our solar system? *snicker* You do. I guess all those arguments for the gloom & doom future where everyone's dead, stranded, and/or inbred are settled now, aren't they?

You wanted to be able to defy the Catalyst? You can - enjoy dying for the sake of satisfying your freedom-or-death principles. Personally, I'm glad it's all over with one way or the other - those still determined to hate it for not fulfilling their every desire (because they're impossible to please) can go form a support group and boycott future games to their hearts' content. Maybe they can even bake themselves some cupcakes and build a life-size Reaper in protest over not getting what they wanted - because the cupcake thing really made a difference the first time around. The others who wanted clarification and more details got it.

Pretty much every single word written here. Well done.

My question is, if someone out there hates everything about ME3 so much, thinks BioWare is personally persecuting them, punishing them, "stealing" their money... why is that person still here? I eagerly anticipate the exodus from these forums from all the people who feel that way.

After all, they wouldn't want to be hypocrites, would they?