32 réponses à ce sujet

[fkirenicus]

Well, in the early stages of the game at least.
I've now patched from 1.01a (where I had few problems, playing on easy (I'm not your tactical genius)) to 1.02 and on normal. The first thing I noticed was that Mind Blast now works more on me as a player, than on monsters... The cooldown has been increased significantly, and the duration of the spell reduced to... What, 2 seconds - or something?

While I clearly saw that the game in some parts was becoming too easy on the 2nd playthrough on easy difficulty ("Cone of Cold", anyone?), the nerfs made to some of the mage spells in 1.02 seem to have gone a bit "over the top" - they have become almost useless. Shorter duration OR longer cooldown is fine, but both... Ah well. I guess I'll reinstall and patch to 1.01a again. I'd rather play on 1.01a normal difficulty than 1.02 on easy (because I've played on easy twice now, and want to see if I have at least minor skills in tactical combat ).
To each his own, as they say. :innocent:

Also, I notice that I have more and more serious crashes after 1.02. Once last night the game crashed in such a way that the computer had to be restarted (I wasn't even able to get back to Windows).
Alt-tabbing between the game and Windows also doesn't work that well after patching to 1.02.
That is also a reason for me to go back to 1.01a I guess... Had VERY few problems with that patch (the occasional CTD in Denerim, Orzammar and WK).

Modifié par fkirenicus, 14 décembre 2009 - 03:01 .

[Loc'n'lol]

LOL

EDIT: no, seriously, they haven't, mind blast has always had a very short stun duration, and only a handful of spells have been altered, not nearly enough to make mages anything remotely close to "weak".

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:36 .

[Aesir Rising]

The jump in challenge/difficulty going from Easy to Normal is greater than going from Normal to Nightmare. Some of the greatest differences have to do with spell resistance for both you and enemies, where you have a significant advantage on Easy so be aware of this when you prep your next review of the Mage class.

[fkirenicus]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

LOL

EDIT: no, seriously, they haven't, mind blast has always had a very short stun duration, and only a handful of spells have been altered, not nearly enough to make mages anything remotely close to "weak".

LOL all you want, my good man.
Mind Blast hasn't had that short duration in my games before, but perhaps there was a difference between durations on easy difficulty and normal also prior to 1.02.
Seriously, my mage barely has time to step back from the stunned creatures before they are "unstunned" now. And since the cooldown now is 15 (or was it 20?) seconds it hardly helps as an "emergency utility" to keep the mage alive.
But then again as I've said, I suck at "turn-based" combat. Never saw much fun in ToEE's battle system, for example.

Modifié par fkirenicus, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:44 .

[T0paze]

Patch 1.02 is broken as in 'don't use it unless they release a fix'. That Rally bug alone is enough to discard this patch and wait for the next one.

However, I don't see anything terrible about the nerfs. Actually, the seem rather mild. The real strength of the Cone of Cold spell lies neither in its damage nor in its short cooldown period (well, unless they set the cooldown to some 40 seconds, which is just not going to happen). It's in the incredible freezing power of that spell, which stays unchanged. Even the most powerful enemies have a very hard time resisting this spell, and I can't think of any who could resist it several times in a row. With its current cooldown it may not be so overwhelmingly powerful, but it's still a number one choice for any mage.

Forcefield had to be nerfed, plain and simple. It was obvious right from the beginning. Besides, this spell was bugged, in addition to being incredibly strong.

Crushing Prison - well, can't say much about that. Guess it had to be nerfed, too.

Blizzard - well, actually, I didn't see anything wrong with that spell. They reduced the freezing time to 1/5 of the original, I think, but the enemies who stay in the AOE still need to pass a resistance check or be frozen again. No one usually does, so it's not much of a difference.

Shimmering Shield was simply too good to be true, so their decision seems more than reasonable. Actually, I was surprised that it did NOT deactivate one mana was depleted. I think they simply overlooked that in the initial release.

Modifié par T0paze, 14 décembre 2009 - 02:51 .

[fkirenicus]

Aesir Rising wrote...

The jump in challenge/difficulty going from Easy to Normal is greater than going from Normal to Nightmare.

Ah, OK. Thanks for the heads-up. 

[Seagloom]

I honestly haven't noticed much of a difference between my current mage and ones I played in the past. Mind Blast is as effective as ever in my opinion. Its stun duration is short, but it doesn't seem much less than before. That isn't its strength anyway. What makes Mind Blast useful is how it drops everyone's threat on you and inclines them to attack someone else nearby.



The only noticeable change I've seen is shorter length on Force Field, and quite frankly, that spell needed weakening.

[tigrina]

I guess the biggest issue from easy to normal is the existence of friendly fire. It really alters the need for tactics. Personally I've been playing on normal since start and for me the patches don't make it feel that different at all on mage.

[Ambaryerno]

T0paze,



You're not kidding. Even golems, Revenants and bosses can be frozen with CoC. The increased cooldown is not a problem at all. If only Shatter worked on those Revenants.... I was pleasantly surprised that it did on golems (sometimes).

[Damar Stiehl]

Get my mod and forget about nerfs. Nerfs suck.



http://social.biowar...m/project/1243/

[DarwinJames]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Get my mod and forget about nerfs. Nerfs suck.

http://social.biowar...m/project/1243/

A testimonial from a user of Damar Stiehl's mod. Does what it says and having my mage back to full power makes me very happy.

Thank you Damar!

[ijmorris]

The biggest problem I'm having with the patch is the cooldown on poultices!!! It's driving me crazy....For example, in the "illegal" party battle in orzammar, I almost got killed by the other team because they do like 90 points of damage with double strike...

[Eshme]

What? That is no real problem is it "ijmorris" ?

To my observations, i can chug all i got at once in a rapid fashion ,because cooldown is only for one type. Drink a weak potion, not allowed another, but a big one no big deal lol.

[JTBR02]

Eshme wrote...

What? That is no real problem is it "ijmorris" ?
To my observations, i can chug all i got at once in a rapid fashion ,because cooldown is only for one type. Drink a weak potion, not allowed another, but a big one no big deal lol.

Wow!  Nice tip, Eshme! I haven't been using that many potions but that could make a huge difference in some of the upcoming battles.

[JaegerBane]

T0paze wrote...
Forcefield had to be nerfed, plain and simple. It was obvious right from the beginning. Besides, this spell was bugged, in addition to being incredibly strong.

Crushing Prison - well, can't say much about that. Guess it had to be nerfed, too.

Blizzard - well, actually, I didn't see anything wrong with that spell. They reduced the freezing time to 1/5 of the original, I think, but the enemies who stay in the AOE still need to pass a resistance check or be frozen again. No one usually does, so it's not much of a difference.

Shimmering Shield was simply too good to be true, so their decision seems more than reasonable. Actually, I was surprised that it did NOT deactivate one mana was depleted. I think they simply overlooked that in the initial release.

It's this kind of thinking that tends to get everyone's backs up when debating balance. It isn't really good enough to just say 'nerf it'. I personally think the nerf on Force Field wasn't really needed, as whatever advantage you gained by halting an enemy or protecting an ally was directly moderated by the fact that your ally became useless and your enemy became invincible. The only reason I'm not that bothered about the nerf is that I rarely use the spell after level 13.

Crushing Prison was extremely powerful, true, but considering it has a patchy record with orange enemies and it's only single person I didn't think it needed to be nerfed to the extent it was. It *is* a fourth-tier spell, after all - these things aren't supposed to be cantrips.

The Blizzard nerf didn't need to be made at all. The long cast time and friendly fire tendancies were acceptable when it could freeze as well it originally could, but now its often not worth casting.

Shimmering Shield wasn't actually a balance issue, it was a bug in the spell. I agree, activating it and leaving it as an insta-full plate was cheesery, but never intended either.

[TanithAeyrs]

I started my 2nd playthrough with a mage on normal with the old patch and installed the new patch about 1/2 way through. I still really need to bump it up to hard for a real challenge but I like playing with a 2 rogue, 1 mage, 1 tank (or off tank) team so I left it at normal for now. Next playthrough definitely going to hard. I only used force field to hold an enemy before, not on my tank because it seemed unfair, so changes to that spell did not really affect me. Cone of cold and blizzard definitely needed to be weakend. I am happy with the current patch because I had Leliana's approval really high before I got much chance to talk to her so I would have missed her quest (new patch fixed this bug). Rally bug is a simple fix, just deactivate and reactive when changing zones.

Remember the AI causes some types of enemies to specifically target mages (rogues) so you need to take them out quickly to protect your squishy mage. Also petrify and crushing prison help a lot when you are about to be surrounded, I also use force field on enemies to take them out of the battle for a minute until my melee characters are not so out numbered. Also you can run (running past you tank will often pull the enemy into them and get them off your mage).

Arcane warrior specialization lets your mage wear armor (I use ancient elven armor for my elven mage because she feels connected to the history of her people when she wears it). You can definitely put heavier armor on if you wish, I just didn't feel like my character would do that.

Hope this helps.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Hahahaha.

No.

[T0paze]

I disagree about Force Field.
If cast on an ally, it would make them immune to damage. That would be fine, if enemies would ignore that ally and switch to another companion. They don't, so this spell is bugged.
If you cast it on an enemy... well, this is a bit more complicated. Unlike your party, where everyone is more or less equal, provided that you chose their spells and talents wisely, dangerous enemy groups mostly consist of one or two very strong opponents and cannon fodder. So, you will want to incapacitate that strong enemy for a while and deal with his support group, so as to be able to focus on him alone later. Force Field was an excellent chance to do that. In 30 seconds you could do pretty much whatever you wanted. If you had two  or three mages with Force Field, you'd own each and every one of such groups. Come to think of it, you probably still can - the decrease in duration is not that drastic.

Modifié par T0paze, 14 décembre 2009 - 06:23 .

[Zarenthar]

I couldn't even patch up to 1.02... said I don't have Dragon age installed. I had no problem with the previous 2 patches.

[Sylvius the Mad]

DarwinJames wrote...

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Get my mod and forget about nerfs. Nerfs suck.

http://social.biowar...m/project/1243/

A testimonial from a user of Damar Stiehl's mod. Does what it says and having my mage back to full power makes me very happy.

Thank you Damar!

Another testimonial.  Damar's mod works brilliantly, and it lets you choose which nerfs you want to undo.

I didn't think the Shimmering Shield fix was a nerf - I thought it was a bugfix - so I didn't install that one, but Cone of Cold, Forcefield, Crushing Prison, and Blizzard are back the way they used to be.  Just how I like them.

[fkirenicus]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Get my mod and forget about nerfs. Nerfs suck.

http://social.biowar...m/project/1243/

Did so and left a comment on your project page. Please respond when you are able.

[sarc.tr]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

DarwinJames wrote...

Damar Stiehl wrote...

Get my mod and forget about nerfs. Nerfs suck.

http://social.biowar...m/project/1243/

A testimonial from a user of Damar Stiehl's mod. Does what it says and having my mage back to full power makes me very happy.

Thank you Damar!

Another testimonial.  Damar's mod works brilliantly, and it lets you choose which nerfs you want to undo.

I didn't think the Shimmering Shield fix was a nerf - I thought it was a bugfix - so I didn't install that one, but Cone of Cold, Forcefield, Crushing Prison, and Blizzard are back the way they used to be.  Just how I like them.

Wow, thanks for the tip guys, never heard of this mod before, will definitely check it out

[Taritu]

They're still the most powerful class. It's not even close.

[Aerakyl]

Taritu wrote...

They're still the most powerful class. It's not even close.

This is essentially the crux of the matter. Despite the changes, mages still remain one of the top damage dealers (dual wielding warrior is the only build that does more, in my experience), the best crowd controllers, and the only reliable healing outside of poultice usage. I can honestly say that I did not really notice any changes after patch 1.02, and only began to recognize them after reading the patch notes at a later point.

When I first began this game I died a few times on normal mode and became a bit frustrated, but now that I've learned how to approach the combat system, I am able to breeze through nightmare with a variety of party combinations whilst sustaining zero injuries. This did take a bit of time and experience, however, and I think that the steep learning curve is ultimately what lends people to the belief that the weakening of certain mage abilities was unnecessary. However, given that the other classes are infinitely less powerful, I personally am surprised they were not made weaker.

Modifié par Jaelan, 15 décembre 2009 - 10:18 .

[NivraxDeathbringer]

Force Field change is stupid, its main reason was to cc powerful mob while you deal with smaller ones (somtimes cc a white, but dangerous mob like mage, but those can be taken care of in other ways). It was just reverse of using aoe-cc (Sleep/Waking Nightmare) focusing on elite, and dealing with smaller mobs later. Now, the only way I see it useful is to cast it on party member, which (unless he is chewed by the dragon or just going to die in next hit) seems extremly cheap since enemies still target that member. The old values were perfect, the only change needed is aggro wipe.