207 réponses à ce sujet

[ryanshowseason3]

Xaijin wrote...

I applaud BioWare QA that we did not see any SEV 1, 2 or 3 issues

Actually there's a SEV 1 issue with sound on creative cards that causes spontaneous reboots. Not lockup, not blue screen, a literal reboot. It's been present since launch and hasn't been fixed.

Theres a bug like this for many games nowaadays. I bought crysis 2 on steam and have never been able to play for more than 5 minutes. It reboots my system everytime.

I don't blame them though, this stuff is near impossible to debug. My work has control over what hardware our software is run on so luckily we can just use something else. But my condolences go out to anyone who has to fix a bug like this.

Seriously you don't even know the difficulty involved in fixing something like that. Everytime you try and reproduce it, and figure out from whence it came boom 10 minutes free time until you can try again.

[Mgamerz]

Let's do some assembly debugging!
Sounds fun!

[Kasrkin]

I've done debugging in assembly. It is . . . less than optimal.

I don't think anyone will debate that producing a game based on 3rd party engines can be trying/difficult. Or that once released, a game will only receive X amount of support.

I feel like I'm harping on the communication point. The issue of "known issues." I know I'm not asking for a detailed assessment of reproducable bugs, updated by the minute. Something as simple as stickying the most comprehensive player created bug list, and perhaps letting us know which ones have been confirmed by staff.

No need for timelines for patches, dev schedules, or whatnot.

I realize it may come across as snarky, but you don't need a CS degree to sticky a thread that the community already created. Wouldn't that create a bit of goodwill? Although it could spiral into the whinefest and negative demanding spot that just makes people's eyes bleed to read. Acceptable risk IMO.

[SpiffyNova]

Mgamerz wrote...

some stuff

When this world is able to email a physical cookie, you will be one of the first to receive one... If I can remember to send it.

Fortunately, my users understand that new features and fixes don't fall from the sky. Can't say the same for Bioware, although they have quite a bit more users.

Also, since I have a CS degree, does that mean I can make up things to complain about here?

EDIT: spelling (CS is easier)

Modifié par SpiffyNova, 27 juin 2012 - 10:04 .

[Mgamerz]

SpiffyNova wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

some stuff

When this world is able to email a physical cookie, you will be one of the first to receive one... If I can remember to send it.

Fortunately, my users understand that new features and fixes don't fall from the sky. Can't say the same for Bioware, although they have quite a bit more users.

Also, since I have a CS degree, does that mean I can make up things to complain about here?

EDIT: spelling (CS is easier)

Sure 
But the consequences are yours if you make someone unhappy 

[Zaidra]

Mgamerz wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

They have to spend $40k each time they patch the game. You think they would at least properly test the bugs they think they fixed before throwing that money away. The ULM bug offends me the most.

When users whine endlessly about 'how long it takes', would a proper fix that takes longer or a interim patch that fixes 'some' bugs be better?
Discuss.

Exactly. Egg-freaking-sactly!  The users complain about all of these bugs, and then when Bioware goes to fix them, the users complain about how long it's taking them. Either suck it up and deal with the bugs, or be patient and wait for the fix, people, because you sure as heck can't have an instant fix! 

Modifié par Zaidra, 28 juin 2012 - 04:38 .

[MWaHa]

Zaidra wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

They have to spend $40k each time they patch the game. You think they would at least properly test the bugs they think they fixed before throwing that money away. The ULM bug offends me the most.

When users whine endlessly about 'how long it takes', would a proper fix that takes longer or a interim patch that fixes 'some' bugs be better?
Discuss.

Exactly. Egg-freaking-sactly!  The users complain about all of these bugs, and then when Bioware goes to fix them, the users complain about how long it's taking them. Either suck it up and deal with the bugs, or be patient and wait for the fix, people, because you sure as heck can't have an instant fix! 

I personally refuse to accept anything that's not perfect the first time, and for me perfection means including game balances exactly the way I would prefer them

But seriously, I'm just starting a master's degree program that is reasonably high tech, and a lot of our alumni go on to work at places like Blizzard (I don't know if we have alums anyone at BioWare), and from talking to them, I know that thingsl ike this are insane and require tons of very smart people doing a lot of hard work. Thanks, Bioware, for making a fun game to begin with, and for working to improve it in spite of the hassle. (I just started learning how to computer program, and keeping even 10 lines of code straight is making my head spin....)

[Kalas Magnus]

Zaidra wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

They have to spend $40k each time they patch the game. You think they would at least properly test the bugs they think they fixed before throwing that money away. The ULM bug offends me the most.

When users whine endlessly about 'how long it takes', would a proper fix that takes longer or a interim patch that fixes 'some' bugs be better?
Discuss.

Exactly. Egg-freaking-sactly!  The users complain about all of these bugs, and then when Bioware goes to fix them, the users complain about how long it's taking them. Either suck it up and deal with the bugs, or be patient and wait for the fix, people, because you sure as heck can't have an instant fix! 

But then when can we expect the changes? The game has been out for about 4 months. Soon enough people will get the new COD and the people playing this game will decrease significantly. So we either get them in soon or we will be reluctant to buy another one of their products in the future.

[ryanshowseason3]

Kalas321 wrote...
But then when can we expect the changes? The game has been out for about 4 months. Soon enough people will get the new COD and the people playing this game will decrease significantly. So we either get them in soon or we will be reluctant to buy another one of their products in the future.

COD's release date DOES NOT AND SHOULD NOT have any effect on releasing a stable patch!

These things don't go faster. You can't put nitrous in them and hit the turbo button. They vary in the time it takes to find the problem and fix it in a way that deosn't break anything else, and coming up with test cases and actually performing them takes finite time as well. Assembling all the other fixes into a build and compiling it for all platforms takes time, certifying the builds with all the powers that be take time. Propagating it to all the servers to deliver it take time.

No one has the power to make this go faster just because COD clone #7 is coming out in a few months.

To be honest I won't miss them, I much prefer this game, and I'd love to play with other people who genuinely enjoy it as well.

[Seifer006]

Prawny wrote...

This needs to be stickied, and forced upon all community members!

This

[N Malboeuf]

I deal with QVS and Lean at work (google it) and delays like these patches would get you fired in the global company I work for, and lets talk about the several million customers, nooo lets not get off our asses and get **** done by the end of the week, we can take months
FIRED
I see new work emails weekly on how we have a new Regonial manager here, or CSR here
get with it BIO, these guys were fired and those emails are thier replacements

yesterdays news is just around the corner.

You're email is coming...

Modifié par N Malboeuf, 30 juin 2012 - 06:23 .

[xtorma]

N Malboeuf wrote...

I deal with QVS and Lean at work (google it) and delays like these patches would get you fired in the global company I work for, and lets talk about the several million customers, nooo lets not get off our asses and get **** done by the end of the week, we can take months
FIRED
I see new work emails weekly on how we have a new Regonial manager here, or CSR here
get with it BIO, these guys were fired and those emails are thier replacements

yesterdays news is just around the corner.

You're email is coming...

If you had read the whole thread, you will understand that the company wont fire people for doing what they are told. The fact is, the company issues work to these folks, and if bug fixes are deemed too expensive, and bugs do not seem to be impacting revenue, then you will never see them. At least that is what I got out of the thread.

BW just spent a cubic butt load of money on the ending, it's my guess they want to hold on to as much of the profit that is left as possible.

[dysturbed0ne]

One of the best threads I have read to date on this forum. While worthy of a sticky, most people this would apply to wouldn't take the time to read or comprehend the information. Nevertheless, nice job.

[5_Mania]

OP is a Bioware staffer without the tag o.O

Good stuff though.

[N Malboeuf]

xtorma wrote...

N Malboeuf wrote...

I deal with QVS and Lean at work (google it) and delays like these patches would get you fired in the global company I work for, and lets talk about the several million customers, nooo lets not get off our asses and get **** done by the end of the week, we can take months
FIRED
I see new work emails weekly on how we have a new Regonial manager here, or CSR here
get with it BIO, these guys were fired and those emails are thier replacements

yesterdays news is just around the corner.

You're email is coming...

If you had read the whole thread, you will understand that the company wont fire people for doing what they are told. The fact is, the company issues work to these folks, and if bug fixes are deemed too expensive, and bugs do not seem to be impacting revenue, then you will never see them. At least that is what I got out of the thread.

BW just spent a cubic butt load of money on the ending, it's my guess they want to hold on to as much of the profit that is left as possible.

thats your point of view and it means nothing, every corperete will operate differently, and I doubt they will recover or produce any thing of value in the next 10 years
as I said yesterdays news is just around the corner.

[xtorma]

N Malboeuf wrote...

xtorma wrote...

N Malboeuf wrote...

I deal with QVS and Lean at work (google it) and delays like these patches would get you fired in the global company I work for, and lets talk about the several million customers, nooo lets not get off our asses and get **** done by the end of the week, we can take months
FIRED
I see new work emails weekly on how we have a new Regonial manager here, or CSR here
get with it BIO, these guys were fired and those emails are thier replacements

yesterdays news is just around the corner.

You're email is coming...

If you had read the whole thread, you will understand that the company wont fire people for doing what they are told. The fact is, the company issues work to these folks, and if bug fixes are deemed too expensive, and bugs do not seem to be impacting revenue, then you will never see them. At least that is what I got out of the thread.

BW just spent a cubic butt load of money on the ending, it's my guess they want to hold on to as much of the profit that is left as possible.

thats your point of view and it means nothing, every corperete will operate differently, and I doubt they will recover or produce any thing of value in the next 10 years
as I said yesterdays news is just around the corner.

We are not talking about every corporation here we are talking about bioware. This was posted by someone who is a mod here and used to be employed there so take it for what you will.

Fixes cost more than zero time and effort, so it's a money issue more than anything. Developers and publishers are not obligated to release patches.

[N Malboeuf]

he's talking about quality ensurance and if you fing read my post look up QVS and Lean thinking.
Go back to school.

[xtorma]

N Malboeuf wrote...

he's talking about quality ensurance and if you fing read my post look up QVS and Lean thinking.
Go back to school.

No reason for insults.

[Kasrkin]

Things we can agree on:

• Games like ME 3 are complex, and take time to patch.

Something *I* think that Bioware needs to address:

• Stickying a known issues thread.

/deadhorse


Aaaaaaaand /editing for formating.

Modifié par Kasrkin, 02 juillet 2012 - 02:51 .

[ryanshowseason3]

N Malboeuf wrote...

I deal with QVS and Lean at work (google it) and delays like these patches would get you fired in the global company I work for, and lets talk about the several million customers, nooo lets not get off our asses and get **** done by the end of the week, we can take months
FIRED
I see new work emails weekly on how we have a new Regonial manager here, or CSR here
get with it BIO, these guys were fired and those emails are thier replacements

yesterdays news is just around the corner.

You're email is coming...

First. No their email is not coming. We're not talking about you global company. Bioware only has EA to answer to, and the profits from the initial sale are already in the bank. The micro-transaction system is the only income source in question. I'd really like to call into question the legitimacy of your view if you do work at a globally sized company. Bioware is not a huge company like yours that can afford to fire and rehire people because it has thousands of employees. Like I said before, training software employees is a lengthy business taking months of time. If they hired one at the release of the game they *might* be proficient in the code about now. They only have around 1k employees total, not exactly monstrous.
   
    Second off we're not talking about anyone sitting on their butt and doing nothing, you're ignoring the explanation for the delays, red tape, testing and difficulty finding and fixing the problems in a way that doesn't break anything else. If you're going to ignore the premise of the thread please don't bother posting in it.
   
    Third your business's structure sounds wildly different than something Bioware would employ. Theres not a whole lot of use for something like a "Regional Manager" I'd wager. EA publishes their game on a worldwide scale, and why would they need presences in multiple countries or regions?   You also fail to mention why your regional managers get fired and if those reasons could come anywhere close to relating to something Bioware's business model would employ. In my experience regional managers oversee and enforce company policies in multiple retail emplacements. Bioware doesn't have retail emplacements so what are you talking about?
   
    Also insults are not needed here, they don't give you the image of a knowledgable and reasonable individual when you resort to them. Abram Smash anyone?

[MstrJedi Kyle]

10 bucks says Mr. QVS and Lean doesn't have to deal with MS/Sony certification. While I think the idea of thread where BioWare says what they are aware of and what they are doing is a good thing I do agree with our Mr. Stan when he says people would just complain about the time frame instead of the bug itself.

[thecrockpot]

So when I buy, say, a car and the engine doesn't blow when starting (SEV 1), after driving a couple miles (SEV 2), or the brakes fail (SEV 3), I should be happy and "applaud" the designers? What nonsense is this?

Software is a product and I daresay something like a car or an airplane are WAY more complex to design than a computer game yet nobody is going to accept those products failing miserably on a regular basis. Software quality standards are poor (unfortunately) for obvious reason. That's not something anyone should be happy about. We should be pissed and voice our disappointment so maybe things might improve a little in the future.

Of course software (like everything else) will never be "perfect", but as an industry their standards are below par. I don't like to pay good money to be a quasi beta-tester, sorry.

This reminds me of an old joke or something for some reason. Where someone makes the comment about an 'easy process' with "this isn't brain surgery!" and then someone responded back with "oh, so it's ok to make mistakes if you're a Braun surgeon then?! The surgeon will just respond to any complaints with 'this is brain surgery, not easy work!'"

And I in no way contributed to this thread besides wasting space...

[Edalborez]

Ninja Stan's post at the bottom of page 2 should be required reading to post MP grievances . Heck, all of his posts in this topic.

Modifié par Edalborez, 02 juillet 2012 - 06:44 .

[ErrorTagUnknown]

man i took a couple years of AP compsci in high school and this stuff should be EASY for bioware to fix. c'mon d00ds.


In all seriousness - even that measily little... hundred or two hundred lines of code was a NIGHTMARE to debug - and these were AP classes at a gifted/talented magnet program school.

[Mgamerz]

I'm not affiliated with BioWare/EA in anyway, just for some clarification. I just have some game programming background. Fixing bugs isn't easy, though I think they have dev consoles that allow them to compile much faster than having to redo the entire game. I remember when I did windows games, I had to recompile the executable binary in it's entirety... it was like 4 minutes between a single digit tweak and starting the game.