332 réponses à ce sujet

[Ender Ghost]

One thing that isn't really new, when you choose the Geth over the Quarians they say before the final mission that they will deploy geth platforms at the beam via obital drop once it is secure. But when Harbinger leaves... they don't come down....

So yeah... not really explained...

[MissMaster_2]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And yet again, only by squinting and looking at it askew and deliberately misinterpreting things and simply not using logic, you manage to find a bunch of "plot holes".

Well done.

Hint: just because you don't (or are incapable of or refuse to) understand these things, it doesn't make them plot holes.

LOL! WHAT? Herby letting the Normandy go is not nitpicking.D
during this time Herby is not shooting lasers he is just watching them. He sees them. So why the heck does he let them go? He was feeling nice in that moment? 

A big ass explosion on the Citidel not killing Shepard some how is not nitpicking these are plotholes that go against the lore of the Mass Effect universe.

One piddly ship flying AWAY from the Conduit and TOWARDS the giant ass Reaper armada... and Harby decides to keep his focus on the Conduit so as to prevent anyone from getting on board the Citadel... you're right. Damn. Total plot hole. Could NEVER be understood by anyone why that would happen. WHY DO YOU CURSE US SO, BioWare! WHY!

A big ass explosion on the Citadel not killing Shepard... well, okay that is a plot hole... so, tell me, how DID Shepard manage to survive a big ass explosion and a bunch of debris falling on him... in Mass Effect 1?

Gonna call BS! On this. It is Shepard, Herby knows what the Normandy is. Do you not remember "Shepard this hurts you!" So he was just all like "Welp, I know I have been a dick in the past...so I'm turning over a new leaf. No, really go a head and have a moment with the man you love I'll wait." NO NO NO NO!
I can't that is just.....stupid.

 Also the explosion in ME1 was not strong enough to uh travel to Mass Relays and damage them. Did you not see the huge flame ball that came for the center of the Citidel? I guess you don't remember ME2 when Shepard died because the Normandy exploed and the oxygen tube leading to her helmet popped? At the very least, if Shepard is on a chunk of the Citidel then what ever force field tht was around it is blown to hell. Shepard should have suffocated once again at the very least.

So Shepard can survive this...


but not this...

]

I can't. I feel as if I need to call LifeAlert because I have fallen and I can't get up...

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 27 juin 2012 - 02:37 .

[w4rguy349]

TK EL wrote...

Thats the fr****** point. The fact that you have to come up with THEORIES for something that is so simple and straightforward probably means its just bad. There is no simple explanation to why he did not just blast them. He actually just stopped doing anything. Also calling in the Normandy makes NO sense whatsoever, it was an all or nothing play, a hail mary. You can like the ending and the EC for all anyone cares, just don't come here and pretend like your kind cares about plot consistency or logic

once again i never stated i liked the ending, i too found it disappointing coming from bioware (technically EA, they forced bioware to make the change) and to me all the DLC did was bring some closure and polish the big details to make more sense.

as for the first bit, it should be clear to you now that bioware/ea figured some of these things were pretty obvious to figure out, such as the breathing scene clearly signified shepard was alive, but here you guys are going "OMFG HOW IS THAT POSSIBRU" and exploding things WAY out of proportion. I will outline it in bold so you can read it easier: THE SCENE SIMPLY SIGNIFIED SHEPARD WAS ALIVE, THEY HAD NO INTENTION OF EXPLAINING  HOW OR WHY.

some things do need explained, like why the normandy crash lands from the burst of energy but nothing is mentioned of the rest of the fleet, other things like most of what has been listed, do not.

[w4rguy349]

Ender Ghost wrote...

One thing that isn't really new, when you choose the Geth over the Quarians they say before the final mission that they will deploy geth platforms at the beam via obital drop once it is secure. But when Harbinger leaves... they don't come down....

So yeah... not really explained...

because it was not secured, harbinger may have left but there were still reaper forces in the vicinity that would have likely shot them down before making it to the ground.

Modifié par w4rguy349, 27 juin 2012 - 02:40 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And yet again, only by squinting and looking at it askew and deliberately misinterpreting things and simply not using logic, you manage to find a bunch of "plot holes".

Well done.

Hint: just because you don't (or are incapable of or refuse to) understand these things, it doesn't make them plot holes.

LOL! WHAT? Herby letting the Normandy go is not nitpicking.D
during this time Herby is not shooting lasers he is just watching them. He sees them. So why the heck does he let them go? He was feeling nice in that moment? 

A big ass explosion on the Citidel not killing Shepard some how is not nitpicking these are plotholes that go against the lore of the Mass Effect universe.

One piddly ship flying AWAY from the Conduit and TOWARDS the giant ass Reaper armada... and Harby decides to keep his focus on the Conduit so as to prevent anyone from getting on board the Citadel... you're right. Damn. Total plot hole. Could NEVER be understood by anyone why that would happen. WHY DO YOU CURSE US SO, BioWare! WHY!

A big ass explosion on the Citadel not killing Shepard... well, okay that is a plot hole... so, tell me, how DID Shepard manage to survive a big ass explosion and a bunch of debris falling on him... in Mass Effect 1?

Gonna call BS! On this. It is Shepard, Herby knows what the Normandy is. Do you not remember "Shepard this hurts you!" So he was just all like "Welp, I know I have been a dick in the past...so I'm turning over a new leaf. No, really go a head and have a moment with the man you love I'll wait." NO NO NO NO!
I can't that is just.....stupid.

 Also the explosion in ME1 was not strong enough to uh travel to Mass Relays and damage them. Did you not see the huge flame ball that came for the center of the Citidel? I guess you don't remember ME2 when Shepard died because the Normandy exploed and the oxygen tube leading to her helmet popped? At the very least, if Shepard is on a chunk of the Citidel then what ever force field tht was around it is blown to hell. Shepard should have suffocated once again at the very least.

So Shepard can survive this...


but not this...

So I'm definitely not putting YOU in charge of anything I need guarded. You'd rather deal with one single person than the objective - even if that means letting your enemies win because you're so focused on shooting that one guy. 

As for Shepard dying in ME2... it was a combination of asphyxiation and... burning up in an atmosphere that killed him. Neither of which happen with the Citadel. Clearly, given that it doesn't go crashing down into Earth, it's mass effect fields are still intact so while I would imagine Shepard is VERY much injured, the possibility completely exists for him/her to still be alive. Whether Shepard REMAINS alive, however, depends entirely on how quickly he/she is found. 

[Bamboozald]

1) Is it that hard to believe that Harbinger was more worried about people getting to the portal to the citadel than a ship, which I might add, is taking people AWAY from the portal and helping him in his cause. Why kill what is helping you?

2) The Normandy is in the area because they, Shepard and Edi, had to use its systems to guide the missles to kill the Destroyer protecting the portal. Is that hard to believe Joker stuck around a bit to see what was going to happen to the assault with a stealth ship.

3) Shepard lives from a blast, which could have numerous reasons/explanations/theories behind it. Personally, he/she is Shepard and can do a lot of impossible things,so I'm ok with him/her living after an explosion. And as for the body question; maybe Shepard does live and helps rebuild things, but the crew on the Normandy won't know it until long after the scene where they leave the forest planet.

4) As for retreating, maybe Hackett detected a power surge or any wide variety of things that showed the Crucible was about to fire. Would an explicit line stating why satisfy your needs? Or do you just refuse to imagine the possibility of such a warning sign and Hackett more worried about getting people out as opposed to telling them why in the middle of combat?

I could go on, but here are just some of the few things that I wanted to point out from my perspective. I don't see these as "plot holes" but people being nitpicking and refusing to use logic or imagination to enjoy or care about what Bioware has created.

[MissMaster_2]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

MissMaster_2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And yet again, only by squinting and looking at it askew and deliberately misinterpreting things and simply not using logic, you manage to find a bunch of "plot holes".

Well done.

Hint: just because you don't (or are incapable of or refuse to) understand these things, it doesn't make them plot holes.

LOL! WHAT? Herby letting the Normandy go is not nitpicking.D
during this time Herby is not shooting lasers he is just watching them. He sees them. So why the heck does he let them go? He was feeling nice in that moment? 

A big ass explosion on the Citidel not killing Shepard some how is not nitpicking these are plotholes that go against the lore of the Mass Effect universe.

One piddly ship flying AWAY from the Conduit and TOWARDS the giant ass Reaper armada... and Harby decides to keep his focus on the Conduit so as to prevent anyone from getting on board the Citadel... you're right. Damn. Total plot hole. Could NEVER be understood by anyone why that would happen. WHY DO YOU CURSE US SO, BioWare! WHY!

A big ass explosion on the Citadel not killing Shepard... well, okay that is a plot hole... so, tell me, how DID Shepard manage to survive a big ass explosion and a bunch of debris falling on him... in Mass Effect 1?

Gonna call BS! On this. It is Shepard, Herby knows what the Normandy is. Do you not remember "Shepard this hurts you!" So he was just all like "Welp, I know I have been a dick in the past...so I'm turning over a new leaf. No, really go a head and have a moment with the man you love I'll wait." NO NO NO NO!
I can't that is just.....stupid.

 Also the explosion in ME1 was not strong enough to uh travel to Mass Relays and damage them. Did you not see the huge flame ball that came for the center of the Citidel? I guess you don't remember ME2 when Shepard died because the Normandy exploed and the oxygen tube leading to her helmet popped? At the very least, if Shepard is on a chunk of the Citidel then what ever force field tht was around it is blown to hell. Shepard should have suffocated once again at the very least.

So Shepard can survive this...


but not this...

So I'm definitely not putting YOU in charge of anything I need guarded. You'd rather deal with one single person than the objective - even if that means letting your enemies win because you're so focused on shooting that one guy. 

As for Shepard dying in ME2... it was a combination of asphyxiation and... burning up in an atmosphere that killed him. Neither of which happen with the Citadel. Clearly, given that it doesn't go crashing down into Earth, it's mass effect fields are still intact so while I would imagine Shepard is VERY much injured, the possibility completely exists for him/her to still be alive. Whether Shepard REMAINS alive, however, depends entirely on how quickly he/she is found. 

Dude. Herby stopped shooting at people and watched. He just watched with his creepy yellow eyes like a creep. He knows how far Shepard has come to destroy the Reapers, her and her crew were distraced he could have ended her there.

As for the mass effect field being intact, I'm sorry that blast is so huge it would destroy that ME field in a nanosecond. That blast looks like it is hotter then the sun and as big as a astroid. Shepard is NOT Superman or Goku she/he is human. And since we are talking about Destroy here, if EDI and the Geth are dead then why the heck didn't Shepard die?

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 27 juin 2012 - 02:47 .

[shamr0ck]

One thing that still puzzles me, even from the pre-EC ending, is where the 'choose your color' scene takes place.  We are told it is on the Citadel; which is confirmed by the Starchild.  The only place
this can be is on the 'bottom' of the Citadel tower, where you see the Crucible attach.   Now, that being said; how is Shepard there?  I do not observe containment barrier/glass of any kind, and the only thing I can gather is that Shepard is walking around on the bottom of the Citadel tower, in the vacuum of space, with no helmet and a practically-destroyed armor.  How is Shepard breathing? How is Shepard not spaced?

 

Modifié par shamr0ck, 27 juin 2012 - 02:51 .

[MissMaster_2]

Also do they ever explain why the Reapers took the Citadel to Earth? Or was that just as forced and as lazy as the rest of this.

[mcguireptr1]

w4rguy349 wrote...

mcguireptr1 wrote...

Identifing these plot holes is not nitpicking. Nitpicking would be saying something like all the bodies on the citadel look the same. The rest of these are legitamet problems, holes, or inconsistencies to the established lore. The ending was an epic fail to a great game and great series, and to all who like the end or have no problem with it, I can only assume you were not emotionally invested into this game or actually like plot holes and lack of closure, something bioware promised for this DLC but did not deliver.

A plot hole is something that is inconsistent with the story and cannot be explained logically. I took the first 39 and gave logical theories to a handful of them, hence they are not true plot holes

Here is an example of a plot hole taken from Lord of the Rings: The Twin Towers

During the Helm's Deep sequence, there were platoons of elves defending the stronghold. Sometime during the sequence they are seen retreating to the inner workings of the fortress, and then after all is said and done they are simply gone without a trace.

Now one could say that they were killed off during the attack, but that is not logical as it was shown that the bulk of their forces retreated to safety. it could also be said that they had departed by then, but that too is illogical as a force that large could not have simply vanished.

again, if you think from a mass effect perspective alot of my theories make sense, and the true plot holes i actually expanded into bigger plot holes. in the end only a few of these "plot holes" even matter

and dont assume we werent emotionally attached, after going through the synthesis ending (which seems to be the favorite turd) i was choked up, EDI was the best possible candidate for expanding the synthesis ending. I personally am not going to youtube the others as i would like to experience them myself, but at the end of the day i get the jist of them anyway.

not once did i say i enjoyed the ending, but you are fooling yourself if the EC didnt bring some form of closure. The most important detail anyone cares about is how their choices affected the end, and i saw some that did affect it:

1. obviously anyone who i managed to keep alive throughout the series was there and anyone who was dead was dead

2. having chosen synthesis, the repears no longer needed to continue the cycle, and chose to live alongside the mass effect lifeforms, being shown rebuilding their homes and apparently the mass relays in the other endings (synthesis didnt show it, or i missed it)

3. having settled the war between the geth and quarians and bringing peace between the two, it was shown that the geth and quarians were living in coexistence on rhannok, rebuilding together.

4. having cured the genophage, the krogan were shown recovering their numbers, with an abundance of female krogan in the slideshow and 1 or 2 krogan children which is more than enough to signify the genophage is truly cured.

5. by choosing synthesis my shepard died, although this was already obvious they pinned the nail in the coffin with the plaque.

those were some of the things i noticed from my playthrough, all of which had significant impact from the beginning of the game, some even from the beginning of the series. (for example, you cannot bring peace between the geth and the quarians without having played through ME2, hell maybe even ME1)

ill go ahead and stop here since this is already a wall of text in itself.

1st, it is "The Lord of the Rings: The *Two* Towers" not Twin towers.
2nd that was the movie, in the book the elves were never there to begin with. read the books and you can point out all of the plot holes in the movie, don't bring that up again, your lack of knowledge on the subject you use as proof of understanding of plot hole makes you sound like an idiot.  apoligies if you are not.

3rd, I am using the themes of mass effect to identify those listed by others as actual plot holes, I am not going to repeat them, they were already stated better than I can say, nor will i list my preferences because they are just that "my preferences"

4th, I also said that those who were ok with the ending were either not emotionally envolved ***OR*** were ok with the lack of closure and the plot holes that were brought up. which it seems you are ok with.  That does not mean they are not plot holes because you do not recognize them as such, the original forum post was for those who did identify the plot holes and wanted to share those they discovered.
An example of a plot hole from mass effect is that the previous games had established the the reason for the Reapers to excist is not a thing for use to understand.  But then star child comes along with the bad fundamentally flawed arguement that to solve the problem of synthetics rebeling and killing all organic life is to have synthetics only kill the advance organic life, but this is something that could be understood so were they just being ominous before.  if so why did they explain it now because we reached the catalyst and his solution to his problem won't work anymore.  So now we are told that the evil option that will ultimatley lead to death for all organics is the very thing we have been trying to do from the begining.  we are left just accepting what the creator of the reapers is telling us, even though he just said the Created will always rebel against the creator, but if he created the reapers shouldn't they eventualy rebel against him, why has this not happen. I stop now because the more i think about the backwards logic and stupidity of the writing the more i get a headache. 

finaly as to the slideshow ending, it continues to be just as ambiguous as the original.  Will the krogan rebel again? will the geth and Quarians maintaine peace? if you choose synthesis why will there everlasting peace unless there is a universal thought if that is the case then YOu have just turned everyone in the galaxy into mindless organic machines, if that is not the case then there won't be peace.  An increase in knowledge never leads to peace only more conflict. 

By the way I am not a hater for hating sack, nor am I someone whom wanted a happy ending.  Just one that made logical sense to established lore and did not have a god child at the end to spoon fed me backwards logic that anyone with half a brain can see as flawed.  I am ok with shepard and even the entire normady dieing if that is what it took for the end that made sense.

[SC0TTYD00]

Here is some plot holes for Star Wars, get over it I say!

http://starwars.geni...e-database.html

[Father_Jerusalem]

MissMaster_2 wrote...


Dude. Herby stopped shooting at people and watched. He just watched with his creepy yellow eyes like a creep. He knows how far Shepard has come to destroy the Reapers, her and her crew were distraced he could have ended her there.

As for the mass effect field being intact, I'm sorry that blast is so huge it would destroy that ME field in a nanosecond. That blast looks like it is hotter then the sun and as big as a astroid. Shepard is NOT Superman or Goku she/he is human. And since we are talking about Destroy here, if EDI and the Geth are dead then why the heck didn't Shepard die?

Yeah, he watched the Normandy FLY AWAY. The opposite direction. Then proceeded to go back to shooting the people that mattered. Again, I'm sure you're a nice person, but I'm never leaving you in charge of guarding anything EVER.

The Citadel is still mostly intact, you can clearly see so in the Destroy ending. Its mass effect fields are therefore NOT destroyed. Did the blast look big? Absolutely. Did it look "hotter than the sun"? No. Also, EDI and the Geth are purely synthetic. Shepard isn't. Ergo, his/her implants may be destroyed, but he/she may still be alive - again, in what condition, we don't know.

[MissMaster_2]

SC0TTYD00 wrote...

Here is some plot holes for Star Wars, get over it I say!

http://starwars.geni...e-database.html

Well
no duh, every work of fiction has plot holes. But the thing that makes this
different then that is the fact that this is a DLC that was meant to FIX PLOT
HOLES.  When you leave most of the original plot holes open and then add
new ones. Then it is a problem. To say “Just get over it” Is an insult to writers
and game developers who REALLY take the time to go over their work with a fine
toothcomb.

Modifié par MissMaster_2, 27 juin 2012 - 03:03 .

[mcguireptr1]

Bamboozald wrote...

mcguireptr1 wrote...

Identifing these plot holes is not nitpicking. Nitpicking would be saying something like all the bodies on the citadel look the same. The rest of these are legitamet problems, holes, or inconsistencies to the established lore. The ending was an epic fail to a great game and great series, and to all who like the end or have no problem with it, I can only assume you were not emotionally invested into this game or actually like plot holes and lack of closure, something bioware promised for this DLC but did not deliver.

If this is the case, then I will have to assume that those who dont like the ending lack an imagination or care too much about the series, so much so, that they will tear down Bioware until they get the ending they invisioned. (Yet I am not going to do so because making such assumptions is not only demeaning to everyone--but just wrong.)

I would argue that your assumption is wrong because I am deeply emotionally invested in this game; however, so are the people who made the game over the past couple years and they have the ultimate say in what happens. I think Bioware delivered a good DLC that helped to further explain their vision of the universe and end of the series (nitpick and plotholes in all). Although I have my own questions that could use some answers, I gladly accept what Bioware has made (regardless of not having answers), because it helped me see what they wanted and how they wanted to end  the universe they created and care about.

Was it the best ending to a series? No, because I imagined events going a different direction, but don't forget, this game isn't ours to control or demand to go in a certain direction. I accept Bioware's choice and will respect it. But I hope others will try to understand it from Bioware's perspective and not destroy a great series just because it doesn't match personal renditions of the the story.

Once again i ALSO said """OR"""" people were ok with the lack of closure.  And if the creators wanted ambiguity they should have used it to explain the reapers.  Not knowing there purpose would help to make them more ominous and terrifying.  You are right, though, We did not create and cannot control the direction of the game.  But a consumer can demand whatever he wants, and if the producer of something doesn't provide it they go shop somewhere else.  Despite the fact I have loved bioware for nearly a decade, i do think this EC and the lack of listening to the complaints of the constumers I agreed with I might go shopping somewhere else for great RPG where the end is clearly explained, they did it perfect with DA: Origins not here though.  But it is possible my expectation for bioware have become to high.

[SadisticStick]

For those people stating Harby was too focused on killing primary threats...like footsoldiers:
A reaper beam is easily capable of destroying a wide swath of footsoldiers, tanks, light air support AND the Normandy in one shot. If anything the landing of the Normandy mere meters from where a previous shot landed should give Harby only added reason to sweep that entire area with a beam. Its not like Harby had to decide to kill some random guy 20 meters away or destroy the Normandy. He could do both in one motion. So why didn't he?

[7he Island Head]

SadisticStick wrote...

For those people stating Harby was too focused on killing primary threats...like footsoldiers:
A reaper beam is easily capable of destroying a wide swath of footsoldiers, tanks, light air support AND the Normandy in one shot. If anything the landing of the Normandy mere meters from where a previous shot landed should give Harby only added reason to sweep that entire area with a beam. Its not like Harby had to decide to kill some random guy 20 meters away or destroy the Normandy. He could do both in one motion. So why didn't he?

He also ignored the 3-5 MAKOs that formed a wall to protect Shephard 

[SC0TTYD00]

MissMaster_2 wrote...

SC0TTYD00 wrote...

Here is some plot holes for Star Wars, get over it I say!

http://starwars.geni...e-database.html

Well
no duh, every work of fiction has plot holes. But the thing that makes this
different then that is the fact that this is a DLC that was meant to FIX PLOT
HOLES.  When you leave most of the original plot holes open and then add
new ones. Then it is a problem. To say “Just get over it” Is an insult to writers
and game developers who REALLY take the time to go over their work with a fine
toothcomb.

I disagree respectfully. bioware never said they were going to fix all the plot holes. Just extend and clarification on what we saw.

[Sifr]

If the implication is that the Catalyst calls Harbinger off because he wants to talk to Shepard to implement the new solution, why do the Three Husketeers and Marauder Shields still shoot at him/her?

[7he Island Head]

Sifr1449 wrote...

If the implication is that the Catalyst calls Harbinger off because he wants to talk to Shepard to implement the new solution, why do the Three Husketeers and Marauder Shields still shoot at him/her?

Harbinger still shoots shepard

[TheShadowWolf911]

congratulations Bioware, you got the fans riled up again.

[Valorefane Dragonwinter]

Valorefane Dragonwinter wrote...

The entire scene with the star kid takes place in open space. Anyone notice that other than me?

I hate to quote myself, but....  seriously, why does no one mention this?

The "decision chamber" isn't a chamber at all.  It's the area between the bottom of the Citadel and the Crucible. 
No atmosphere.  No air.  Which would lead one to think no breathing, either... 

Just sayin'.

Modifié par Valorefane Dragonwinter, 27 juin 2012 - 03:25 .

[mcguireptr1]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

congratulations Bioware, you got the fans riled up again.

Maybe that is their goal.  The alternative is they really are that bad at writing endings and then even worse at listening to fed back to repair those ends.

[7he Island Head]

Valorefane Dragonwinter wrote...

Valorefane Dragonwinter wrote...

The entire scene with the star kid takes place in open space. Anyone notice that other than me?

I hate to quote myself, but....  seriously, why does no one mention this?

The "decision chamber" isn't a chamber at all.  It's the area between the bottom of the Citadel and the Crucible.  No atmosphere.  No air.  Which would lead one to think no breathing, either... 

Just sayin'.

The atmosphere is contained in the Citadel's mass effect field  and sheilds. 

[Sifr]

7he Island Head wrote...

Sifr1449 wrote...

If the implication is that the Catalyst calls Harbinger off because he wants to talk to Shepard to implement the new solution, why do the Three Husketeers and Marauder Shields still shoot at him/her?

Harbinger still shoots shepard

After they get their armour burnt off however? Shepard is still alive, yet Harbinger still leaves? Given that Harbinger wants to take down Shepard personally, the only way that it would leave is if the Catalyst called it off. Hence, the bewildered question of why the other Reaper forces still continue to open fire?

[Father_Jerusalem]

TheShadowWolf911 wrote...

congratulations Bioware, you got the fans riled up again.

Lets be fair here. The fans do a good job of getting riled up all on their own, BioWare doesn't even have to do anything.