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Edge's review of DA:O (5/10), are they competent at reviewing RPG's?


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#26
RetrOldSchool

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Astorax wrote...

I'd suggest, rather than just looking at the numbers, examine what they said they didn't like about it. That's often very telling. A few reviews I've read that didn't like DA:O specifically talk about how it was too long.

A lot of game reviewers want a nice package they can blow through in 10-15 hours of play (a weekend at most) so they can get on with their reviewing of other things. If it takes longer than that, they often mark it down because either a) they never finish so don't experience the full story, or B) are more console style gamers that are just used to and prefer shorter games.


very true, and thats one of the things I had a problem with, the flaws they stated being less flawed than the same flaws in game the rated a lot higher.

Yeah, I think you are correct about reviewers not finishing games, or just rushing through, guess it comes with the job, when they have to make deadlines etc.
(Oh and dont resort to console-gamer bashing :lol:, we are not all knuckle draggers wanting to play nude-bikiini model-zombie-hack-n-slashes or drule over master chiefs hot new armor-of-super-death, like all PC gamers arent LoLzOrzzzOMg-jumping teamspeak WoW addicts or CS junkies :innocent: haha, but I see what youre getting at)

#27
mathewgurney

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Calerion wrote...

It seems that Edge favors only hack and slash and fps games, theodore making the magazine... kind of amateurish ( Sorry Sam-stone-something, I didn't meant to insult your God).


Who's Theodore ? 

#28
Calerion

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Sam -stone- serious wrote...

 Something fishy is going on.

Indeed... I think there is an conspiracy going on Sam-stony! We should conduct an investigation or we can tell the police!
Our masters at Edge must hear about this!

mathewgurney wrote...


Who's Theodore ? 


Your mother of course!

mathewguogney your lover Sam-stony is doing important stuff, just be patient everything will be clear soon.
By the way you have an fugly avatar, please change it to something more less disgusting.

Modifié par Calerion, 14 décembre 2009 - 07:22 .


#29
Calerion

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Dragon age origins isn't perfect, but 5 out of 10 is too low, for a game of this magnitude.

Modifié par Calerion, 14 décembre 2009 - 07:20 .


#30
Augerman

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Back to the topic of this discussion ^^^     

  In my opinion I don't think there's a decent RPGer at Edge.  Some of the criticisms in the review are based on graphics, things like  cutscenes, VO and other things.  An as a true RPGer you have to look past the graphics, glitches and see if it delivers the RPG experience you want.  

  For me it does, I actually found myself getting immersed into the world of Thedas.  My companions all with their own unique personalities, the codex  with it's wealth of knowledge. I felt like I was in a movie where I was the hero.  

   I'd like to know what quailfies this reviewer  to judge RPG's.  Just because someone reviews an RPG it doesn't make them all of sudden know how a RPG  should play.  I personally lothe FPS games so if I posted a review about one I wouldn't know what makes one better from the others.  

#31
MerinTB

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MidgardSerpentZ wrote...

"Oh, I don't even know that magazine, they're nothing!"
Edge is one of the few game magazine out there that has been around for over 15 years, they must be doing something right. And no, I'm not an Edge employee, if anyone was looking for a cheap shot.  


Quick  aside - does pretty much every video game magazine get published by Future Publishing?  It sure looks that way.

One of the few?  What are you comparing it to, Computer Game World and Massive?
Facts are useful:
Nintendo Power - since 1988
EGM - since 1989 (how I forgot to mention this one all those times before - this and PC Gamer are the ones I used to buy regularly)
Game Informer - since 1991
Edge - since 1993
PC Gmaer - since 1993
Official Playstation - since 1997, but it was the independent PSM before that
Ofiicial XBOX - since 2001, but there's only been XBOX since around the same time
Computer and Video Games - 1981-2004, restarted in 2008 as CVG.

One of the few around for over 15 years might as well be one of the few period.

I'm sure you can find smaller or new magazines that aren't nearly as old as Edge, sure, but to say it is one of the few - I listed every magazine I could think of ever seeing on newstands or in book stores.

#32
Bibdy

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Why do people feel the need to defend Edge for giving it a low review with "Oh its a different guy that reviewed it. Oh he must just hate RPGs"

Why the hell would a serious gaming magazine give an RPG to review to a guy that hates them in the first place?

Modifié par Bibdy, 14 décembre 2009 - 07:37 .


#33
Sam -stone- serious

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Other than Retroldschool i dont see anyone else having an opinion as to why reviews are so "favourable" in their end scores. The game has some flaws, to some small, to others big. Where is that shown in their review?



When i see a review of 90%+ i expect to read the review of a near perfect game. The contrary is true for DAO in a lot of reviews from quite big gaming sites like IGN and Eurogamer. Mangle the game in the review, then go on and plaster a 9 on it. WOW wait, where did that come from?

#34
addiction21

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Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Other than Retroldschool i dont see anyone else having an opinion as to why reviews are so "favourable" in their end scores. The game has some flaws, to some small, to others big. Where is that shown in their review?

When i see a review of 90%+ i expect to read the review of a near perfect game. The contrary is true for DAO in a lot of reviews from quite big gaming sites like IGN and Eurogamer. Mangle the game in the review, then go on and plaster a 9 on it. WOW wait, where did that come from?


I just went and read these reviews  that "mangle" the game. We must have very different ideas of what mangling a game in a review means. I guess people just see what they want to see.

I can see with a title like "Dragon Age: Origins Review BioWare's latest masterpiese sets the epic adventure bar high"  would be misleading.
 

Modifié par addiction21, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:08 .


#35
SheffSteel

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If a game is (1) massive and (2) near perfect, it is much easier to write about what it gets wrong than right.

Reviews aren't written in a vacuum. There's not much point in repeating the advertising, or other reviewers' prose or praise. If you're giving a game 8/10 rather than the 9 that most reviews are giving it, your review may well choose to focus on criticism rather than praise. This helps your readers understand why your score is relatively low.

#36
zeejay21

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In general, no. EDGE is incompetent reviewing games. However, I would trust them to find me some lounge with drinks.

#37
mathewgurney

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Calerion wrote...

Sam -stone- serious wrote...

 Something fishy is going on.

Indeed... I think there is an conspiracy going on Sam-stony! We should conduct an investigation or we can tell the police!
Our masters at Edge must hear about this!

mathewgurney wrote...


Who's Theodore ? 


Your mother of course!

mathewguogney your lover Sam-stony is doing important stuff, just be patient everything will be clear soon.
By the way you have an fugly avatar, please change it to something more less disgusting.


I was hoping your reply would so exactly clarify your mental level to readers of this thread that they would discount your posts which have seriously lowered the tone of this thread and caused the last one to close, thankyou for complying.

#38
MerinTB

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Sam -stone- serious wrote...

Other than Retroldschool i dont see anyone else having an opinion as to why reviews are so "favourable" in their end scores. The game has some flaws, to some small, to others big. Where is that shown in their review?

When i see a review of 90%+ i expect to read the review of a near perfect game. The contrary is true for DAO in a lot of reviews from quite big gaming sites like IGN and Eurogamer. Mangle the game in the review, then go on and plaster a 9 on it. WOW wait, where did that come from?


I've said a few times, Sam, that I seriously dislike game magazines in general since most of them targetting teenage-immature-boy mentality of "everything sucks" : the reviews that rip incessantly on what they review, and then give a score that doesn't match the bashing half the time.

*cough* Game Informer *cough*

That said, there are reviews of the game which are glowing, point out somethings they think are flaws, explain why those flaws are far outweighed by the positives, and give a high score.

PC Gamer, for example, on the CVG site - http://www.computera...e.php?id=226557

Lemme show you what I mean (read the whole review though, don't just go on these few parts)
The major flaw according to the reviewer -

PC Gamer review...
However, in a game with few flaws, there's one flailing giant one when it comes to difficulty settings. The pop-up text suggesting that switching to Easy will remove the need for micromanagement during fights is lying. There are difficulty spikes at certain points where getting through a battle on Easy becomes stunningly hard, and requires frenetic fine-tuning. Similarly, if you choose to play a dwarf rogue, you'll find yourself forced to pick Easy during the opening moments of the game because you're simply incapable of surviving battles otherwise.

Later on, any class can hold their own with enough skills. But unless you're a mage with a cluster of healing spells, you must be prepared to spam health poultices to get through many tough encounters. Ideally this will be fixed with a patch, with a more realistic 'Easy' setting for those who want to play in a genuine real-time way, and a 'Normal' for those who want a reasonable challenge.

acknowledging that flaw, and a few others -

PC Gamer review...
Were the difficulty levels not so enormously silly, it would require sheer pickiness to find a major fault with this game. Importantly, overly difficult sequences can be powered through on Easy, but this doesn't excuse it being necessary. Despite the time and investment required to cultivate relationships with party members, these still feel a little clumsy, and despite my best efforts to have a gay relationship with one party member, I found myself surprised and somewhat confused to have inadvertently accepted the advances of another. Oh, and if we're listing faults, one appalling gaff is the failure to change family members' skin colour if you roleplay a non-caucasian. My main protagonist, a black man, lived as a sort of reverse 'The Jerk', where no one mentioned that his mother,
father and brothers were all white. Embarrassing.

A selection of his conclusions - again, go to the site for the full review and conclusion -

PC Gamer review...
But coming out the other end of an epic 80 hours' first playthrough, I leave with memories that feel like more
than simply events in a game.
(...)
I've not only been to huge cities, but I've learned their past, their present, and been involved in shaping their future. This hasn't felt like passing through a series of checkpoints, but having experienced a
world.
(...)
This is the most enormously detailed game world I've experienced, its history stretching back
thousands of years, its cultures vivid, beautiful and flawed, the battles enormous, the humour superb. Roleplaying games now have a great deal to live up to.


I think this is a well written review.  Yes, it's glowing, but I believe that the reviewer really enjoyed it.
And he pointed out some flaws in the game, many of which are staples of this forum.

What's wrong with that review, Sam?  Do you agree it's a well-written review even if you don't agree with it's conclusions?
I see it as very professionally written without any of the bashing or immaturity I dislike in so many (including Edge's style) of reviews.

Modifié par MerinTB, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:10 .


#39
slash197

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Jesus christ, will you people let this go?



"Oh no, my favorite game was criticized! This blasphemy shall not stand!"

#40
mathewgurney

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Frankly, however much people dislike this particular review for being negative, it does provide a necessary counterpoint to positive ones. There's nothing so predjudicial to the advancement of real knowledge than a single un-challenged view of any subject. It does seem to me that the writer was excessively negative but maybe he just sees the value of playing devils advocate. Either way, denigrating anyone for holding a particular opinion is not productive, attack the opinion not the person. Most posters have been following the above advice sensibly, but the few who are stooping to badly written abuse are going to get yet another "at least to me" interesting discussion closed prematurely.

#41
Guest_Ethan009_*

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Aw here to lighten things up:

http://www.youtube.c...DvkkZo4#t=8m10s

Modifié par Ethan009, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:40 .


#42
Calerion

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mathewgurney wrote...

Blah blah blah blah....


Could you repeat that again? You talk bullsh*t and you don't make any sense. Oh if you want to know I don't "mental" problems, unlike you. Trust me you guys aren't going win this argument end of story, thus it is pointess to continue this flaming.

Modifié par Calerion, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:40 .


#43
Darth_Shizz

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Calerion wrote...

mathewgurney wrote...

Blah blah blah blah....


Could you repeat that again? You talk bullsh*t and you don't make any sense. Oh if you want to know I don't "mental" problems, unlike you. Trust me you guys aren't going win this argument end of story, thus it is pointess to continue this flaming.


Is this an example of irony? If it is, kudos to you ser...

#44
Darth_Shizz

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mathewgurney wrote...

Frankly, however much people dislike this particular review for being negative, it does provide a necessary counterpoint to positive ones. There's nothing so predjudicial to the advancement of real knowledge than a single un-challenged view of any subject. It does seem to me that the writer was excessively negative but maybe he just sees the value of playing devils advocate. Either way, denigrating anyone for holding a particular opinion is not productive, attack the opinion not the person. Most posters have been following the above advice sensibly, but the few who are stooping to badly written abuse are going to get yet another "at least to me" interesting discussion closed prematurely.


I agree to an extent, though I think the real reason the review has irked so many, is not the negatives that were in it, but the snide manner in which the reviewer put most of them across (I don't particularly care, as everyone has their own style of writing). Yahtzee he is not ;p 

Still, you're 100% right on the "AMAGAD LOCK PLIZ!" and "YORE TOKKIN CRAP!!" posts. Really don't see the point of those myself, regardless of the opinion someone may or may not have.

Modifié par Darth_Shizz, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:47 .


#45
LdyShayna

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One more warning - way too much personal insults in this thread. This time, I will not only lock it, but take action against those continuing after two warnings and a locked thread.



Discuss the review, if you wish, and the game, but do so without insulting your fellow posters.

#46
SheffSteel

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mathewgurney wrote...

Frankly, however much people dislike this particular review for being negative, it does provide a necessary counterpoint to positive ones. There's nothing so predjudicial to the advancement of real knowledge than a single un-challenged view of any subject. It does seem to me that the writer was excessively negative but maybe he just sees the value of playing devils advocate. Either way, denigrating anyone for holding a particular opinion is not productive, attack the opinion not the person. Most posters have been following the above advice sensibly, but the few who are stooping to badly written abuse are going to get yet another "at least to me" interesting discussion closed prematurely.

Reminds me of something I read today on the bad science blog...
Then, of course, the media privilege foolish contrarian views because they have novelty value, and also because “established” views get confused with “establishment” views, and anyone who comes along to have a pop at those gets David vs Goliath swagger.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 14 décembre 2009 - 08:57 .


#47
MerinTB

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Calerion wrote...

mathewgurney wrote...

Blah blah blah blah....


Could you repeat that again? You talk bullsh*t and you don't make any sense. Oh if you want to know I don't "mental" problems, unlike you. Trust me you guys aren't going win this argument end of story, thus it is pointess to continue this flaming.


Seriously, Calerion, you can disagree with someone without being so abrasive.

This kind of behavior gets people banned, you know, and whatever the first guy said doesn't excuse your response.

Please don't get this thread locked for us.

#48
MerinTB

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SheffSteel wrote...

mathewgurney wrote...

Frankly, however much people dislike this particular review for being negative, it does provide a necessary counterpoint to positive ones. There's nothing so predjudicial to the advancement of real knowledge than a single un-challenged view of any subject. It does seem to me that the writer was excessively negative but maybe he just sees the value of playing devils advocate. Either way, denigrating anyone for holding a particular opinion is not productive, attack the opinion not the person. Most posters have been following the above advice sensibly, but the few who are stooping to badly written abuse are going to get yet another "at least to me" interesting discussion closed prematurely.

Reminds me of something I read today on the bad science blog...
Then, of course, the media privilege foolish contrarian views because they have novelty value, and also because “established” views get confused with “establishment” views, and anyone who comes along to have a pop at those gets David vs Goliath swagger.


Or the ridiculousness of everything must have two equal sides.

No, sometimes there's right and wrong.  Sometimes there are facts and made-up crap.

Saying MW2 deserves a 5 out of 5 or a 1 out of 5 is opinion and shouldn't be assaulted as "wrong" per se.  Saying MW2 fails becasue you don't get to create a character, and the spaceships are poorly designed is silly, not an opinion.

#49
aries1001

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Isn't the problem more than Edge Magazine maybe uses the full 1-10 score, not just the 7-10 score that other sites or magazines use? And by that I mean, Edge may think that DA is just a mediocre game, and as such shouldn't receive more than 5 or 6 in a review score. Other sites may think that it should get maybe 7 or 8, even if they see it as a mediocre game, too.



And let's not forget that constructive criticism is something that the devs. can use - to make the next game better...

#50
Darth_Shizz

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SheffSteel wrote...

Reminds me of something I read today on the bad science blog...
Then, of course, the media privilege foolish contrarian views because they have novelty value, and also because “established” views get confused with “establishment” views, and anyone who comes along to have a pop at those gets David vs Goliath swagger.


Never before have words rung so truly.

:wizard: