251 réponses à ce sujet

[WizzyWarlock]

I finished my game with the Destroy option and, as I don't have the time to play again tonight, I decided to check the other endings on YouTube. I must say, I find Synthesis the most disturbing idea and how this is perceived as a good thing is just unbelievable. It's horrid. It made me cringe just watching it, it was like normal people became like the victims in the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers, all under psychological control with no real free will.

How can forcefully rewriting the entire galaxy's DNA, making them into some weird mish mash of synthetic and organic, be considered good? Like Shepard said to StarBrat, "I think we'd rather keep our own form.", and, "Without hope we might as well be machines.". Well, with Synthesis, both these things are gone. Everyone has the same green circuit board thing, glowing green eyes, and they have no hope as there's nothing to hope for, they're at the pinnacle of evolution.

It's a horrible ending. The worst part for me though is all those innocent people, all those soldiers who were fighting to the death for you, and you go and rewrite their DNA without question or consent. Personally, I'd be damn annoyed.

[Mentxi]

A lot of people complains about synthesis because it "rapes" people, but destroy does the same thing to synthetics, no?

[jengelb1]

I'm just waiting for this to happen.

[lordofdogtown19]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Ha! The jokes on you. I still picked Destroy.

[Scottish_highlander]

Jumbocactus wrote...

A lot of people complains about synthesis because it "rapes" people, but destroy does the same thing to synthetics, no?

Not really, It's the difference between destroying a country or destroying the world. If you destroy the world the country will still be destroyed. With Synthesis everyone [organics AND synthetics] is involuntarily transformed against their will ceasing to be what they were. With destroy you only lose synthetic life [tragic though that loss is] rather than sacrifice the vast diversity and variety of the galaxy.

Modifié par Scottish_highlander, 26 juin 2012 - 10:55 .

[Doug M]

Some of the big themes of Mass Effect: diversity, tolerance, camaraderie, choice.

The synthesis ending reflected on camaraderie, but ignored the other three. By choosing synthesis, Shepard is taking away the choice of whether or not to become synthetic away from everyone that choice is affecting. This is the problem the synthesis ended has had all along, and it hasn't changed in the Extended Cut. It still ignores the themes of diversity, since everyone is the same, and it sidesteps tolerance because everyone is the same. Any racial or cultural difference is now superficial. Sure, it's the happiest ending, with everyone getting along and on the fast track to becoming immortal, and no one seems to mind that they've been fundamentally changed on a genetic level without their consent, but this ending still lacks narrative cohesion. It still dismisses diversity and tolerance.

For the purposes of narrative cohesion, the only choice that seems improved by the Extended Cut is the Control option. The best might have been Destroy, but apparently the Catalyst was telling the truth and all synthetic life, including EDI and the geth, are destroyed. So the Destroy choice still disregards tolerance and diversity. At least with Control synthetics and organics can learn to coexist at a natural pace, preserving the themes of diversity and tolerance, with the Reapers acting as giant watchdogs. It still doesn't sit quite right, though, with Shepard assuming the role of Big Brother.

Honestly, though, none of these endings are satisfying because they still don't reflect the choices you made throughout the whole trilogy. It doesn't matter if you played as a ruthless badass or as a noble hero, if you saved or destroyed the Collector Base, if you saved the Council or let them die, what you did with the Rachni, how you handled the Geth and Quarian war, or what you did with the Krogans.

[OnlyHazeRemains]

I think the synthesis ending is misunderstood at a philosophical as well as technical level.

First of all i dont think that after the synthesis Joker is suddenly a superhuman able to lift 60 tons and run 100 mph because his bones are now carbon fibre etc yadda yadda.

How can forcefully rewriting the entire galaxy's DNA, making them into
some weird mish mash of synthetic and organic, be considered good?

As of today we do not understand how exactly DNA conveys information. We only know that it does. I think the synthesis ending implies that the DNA of organic life is improved upon with new information that makes it possible to actually "understand" (for the lack of a better word) synthetics, and in turn the information that is already conveyed in organic DNA is translated into binary code (yet again for the lack of a better description) that allows synthetics to think like organics, allows EDI to feel emotions like love for example.
Many people misunderstand Synthesis in the way that they believe everyones concience is either eradicated or joined into some kind of hive mind, wich i think is totally wrong.

To me synthesis is very similar to control, but control makes some gloomy implications whereas synthesis made me feel all warm and fuzzy (i admit i shed a manly tear when EDI hugged Liara). It is also the the only logical way out of the "cycle" loop that the reapers (or should i say the cataclysm)
have created as that "solution" is obviously flawed halting the technological evolution every cycle, "capping" it at the level of the reapers, creating an arbitary "pinnacle of evolution". Synthesis allows to exceed and surpass this level. And no i think there is no "pinnacle of evolution". Knowledge is infinite, same as time and space.

[OnlyHazeRemains]

Doug M wrote...

Some of the big themes of Mass Effect: diversity, tolerance, camaraderie, choice.

The synthesis ending reflected on camaraderie, but ignored the other three. By choosing synthesis, Shepard is taking away the choice of whether or not to become synthetic away from everyone that choice is affecting. This is the problem the synthesis ended has had all along, and it hasn't changed in the Extended Cut. It still ignores the themes of diversity, since everyone is the same, and it sidesteps tolerance because everyone is the same. Any racial or cultural difference is now superficial. Sure, it's the happiest ending, with everyone getting along and on the fast track to becoming immortal, and no one seems to mind that they've been fundamentally changed on a genetic level without their consent, but this ending still lacks narrative cohesion. It still dismisses diversity and tolerance.

I dont know why everyone always implies that Synthesis means "everyone is the same" .
"Any racial or cultural difference is now superficial."
With all due respect, that is narrow minded B U L  L S H I T 

See my post above. Synthesis is way more on a kind of philosophical level than on the physical one.
It doesnt create a hive-mind or force everyone to think the same, it rather creates philosophical "transcendence".
Srsly look up the word "transcendence" on wikipedia. Thats what i believe is what synthesis embodies.
The rest of your post is just rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

Modifié par Samurai_Smartie, 26 juin 2012 - 11:15 .

[Demoiselle]

Jumbocactus wrote...

A lot of people complains about synthesis because it "rapes" people, but destroy does the same thing to synthetics, no?

Apparantley that's a worthy sacrifice...

*Continues rewatch synthesis ending with tissues in hand*

[AtreiyaN7]

antares_sublight wrote...

Obvakhi wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Synthesis was always their love child. You know despite raping the entire Universe into becoming cyborgs without their consent and becoming the Reapers little toy. Instead they made it out to be the ultimate ending when really it isn't.

 Once again Synthesis-haters are too stubborn to even look at the potential benefits, they can only look at the negative aspects. 'It MUST be bad because I say so!'

And pro-synthites make up stuff because it MUST be the best thing ever. Who cares, it's nonsense.

My goodness, this makes you anti-Synthesis people all sound so very, very reasonable...not. I've always been pro-Synthesis and based on the OP's reaction, I'm sure that I'll find satisfaction in this ending again.

People like EM up there seem capable only of rigidly hewing to the idea that Synthesis is a violation of free will - as if they lose the ability to make major life decisions AFTER the Synthesis event. It's not like people have been Borgified and turned into mindless drones - it's just what is, in the grand scheme of things, a physical change that doesn't alter the personality or character of an individual.

Boy, you anti-Synthesis types seem so angry about the Reapers and what happened that you really are utterly unwilling to acknowledge any possibility of forging a new path. And apparently, even if someone else is playing their own copy of the game and making their own choices, it still requires you to display your scathing disdain for any pro-Synthesis person who believes in the possibility of making an evolutionary leap and peacefully co-existing with (formerly pure) synthetic organisms.

If you all want to go all "HULK SMASH" because of your provincial attitudes and your hang-ups, please do. It just makes me glad that I don't generally make a habit of associating with Luddites. I bet Charles Darwin wouldn't have had nearly as much of a problem with Synthesis as some of you anti-Synthesis people seem to have with it.

Oh God, someone made a choice I didn't make...I MUST GO FORTH AND RAGE ABOUT IT! *snark*

[SetecAstronomy]

billida wrote...

I think synthesis is creepier than before, if possible. having reapers as "friends" almost made me throw my controller away. It seems a complete nonsense to me, on all points. This so called utopia freaked me out.

I used to say that about Klingons...and then NextGen happened

[Demoiselle]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

antares_sublight wrote...

Obvakhi wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Synthesis was always their love child. You know despite raping the entire Universe into becoming cyborgs without their consent and becoming the Reapers little toy. Instead they made it out to be the ultimate ending when really it isn't.

 Once again Synthesis-haters are too stubborn to even look at the potential benefits, they can only look at the negative aspects. 'It MUST be bad because I say so!'

And pro-synthites make up stuff because it MUST be the best thing ever. Who cares, it's nonsense.

My goodness, this makes you anti-Synthesis people all sound so very, very reasonable...not. I've always been pro-Synthesis and based on the OP's reaction, I'm sure that I'll find satisfaction in this ending again.

People like EM up there seem capable only of rigidly hewing to the idea that Synthesis is a violation of free will - as if they lose the ability to make major life decisions AFTER the Synthesis event. It's not like people have been Borgified and turned into mindless drones - it's just what is, in the grand scheme of things, a physical change that doesn't alter the personality or character of an individual.

Boy, you anti-Synthesis types seem so angry about the Reapers and what happened that you really are utterly unwilling to acknowledge any possibility of forging a new path. And apparently, even if someone else is playing their own copy of the game and making their own choices, it still requires you to display your scathing disdain for any pro-Synthesis person who believes in the possibility of making an evolutionary leap and peacefully co-existing with (formerly pure) synthetic organisms.

If you all want to go all "HULK SMASH" because of your provincial attitudes and your hang-ups, please do. It just makes me glad that I don't generally make a habit of associating with Luddites. I bet Charles Darwin wouldn't have had nearly as much of a problem with Synthesis as some of you anti-Synthesis people seem to have with it.

Oh God, someone made a choice I didn't make...I MUST GO FORTH AND RAGE ABOUT IT! *snark*

This.

God, Shepards done things purely for the evilz before and that was just FUNNY, apparantley (getting the high Volus killed comes to mind). Why are there no threads complaining about how sick, wrong and OOC for our hero Shepard that these things were?

...Oh right. Cause it's just a video game and if you don't like that choice you can make another one. Some people on the forums would have a lot less ranting to do if they rememeberd this.

Seriously, synthesis won't become canon just because someone else chose it. 

Modifié par Demoiselle, 26 juin 2012 - 11:31 .

[Team Value]

Aside from the disturbing philosophical implications and the technical absurdity of synthesis, there is the simple fact that it is a solution to a problem that does not exist. The geth/quarian war had been resolved (and the geth were, in fact, peaceful until the Reapers showed up). The Protheans were winning their war against the Metacons before the Reapers showed up. The Reaper's creators obviously survived against synthetics long enough to develop the technology to build the Citadel, Reapers, etc. Synthesis is not necessary, because organics can survive against synthetics without it.

Plus, there is simply no logical pathway between making people partially synthetic and everybody getting along. This is a poorly thought out assertion that, frankly, makes no sense.

I could accept synthesis if it was a flawed argument that the Reapers only think is a good idea, but the game tries to pass it off as if it is actually the best alternative.

[Tirranek]

Elite Midget wrote...

Synthesis was always their love child. You know despite raping the entire Universe into becoming cyborgs without their consent and becoming the Reapers little toy. Instead they made it out to be the ultimate ending when really it isn't.

I'm just glad you can point that out to the Catalyst.

[zambot]

Meh. Synthesis was better in the EC, but it's still a little too space-magic for me. Other endings were excellent though.

[TheGreatDayne]

Ah, I finally saw it... Very nice!
And all those peeps I made happy... Now, I'm tempted to get the worst ending possible.

Something weird happened, though... On the flashback, it showed Thane instead of Joker... I was panicking, because I don't remember romancing him! It was weird...

Oh, Liara... I felt so bad just leaving you... But, man... They're mourning me, and they didn't even have the decency to put my Shep's first name on the plate... Oh well. And I still can't skip the credits...

[Pee Jae]

Mmm... I still don't get anti-synth types. Krogan are still Krogan, Turian are still Turian, etc, etc. Free will is still every life form's choice. The only way anyone is "the same" is on the inside and even then it could be argued that their organic "parts" still are diverse.

The only reason I personally don't like the synth ending is that Shep has to die. The only reason I don't like Destroy is that EDI and the Geth have to die...

Control... that's just creepy, man.

[Meohfumado]

t_skwerl wrote...

Mmm... I still don't get anti-synth types. Krogan are still Krogan, Turian are still Turian, etc, etc. Free will is still every life form's choice. The only way anyone is "the same" is on the inside and even then it could be argued that their organic "parts" still are diverse.

The only reason I personally don't like the synth ending is that Shep has to die. The only reason I don't like Destroy is that EDI and the Geth have to die...

Control... that's just creepy, man.

Imagine being forced to convert to being a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian, or any other religion...against your will.  With your only other option is death (conversion via the sword).

Asians will still be asians.  Latinos will still be Latino.   You still have free will.

The only way anyone is the "the same" is your religion, which was FORCED on you.

You don't think that might ****** some people off?

[Pee Jae]

Meohfumado wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Mmm... I still don't get anti-synth types. Krogan are still Krogan, Turian are still Turian, etc, etc. Free will is still every life form's choice. The only way anyone is "the same" is on the inside and even then it could be argued that their organic "parts" still are diverse.

The only reason I personally don't like the synth ending is that Shep has to die. The only reason I don't like Destroy is that EDI and the Geth have to die...

Control... that's just creepy, man.

Imagine being forced to convert to being a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian, or any other religion...against your will.  With your only other option is death (conversion via the sword).

Asians will still be asians.  Latinos will still be Latino.   You still have free will.

The only way anyone is the "the same" is your religion, which was FORCED on you.

You don't think that might ****** some people off?

Totally different. It's change on a microscopic level and to some extent, appearance, not a belief system.

[Rikketik]

I liked it. But then again, I'm not really interested in picking every single detail apart, or reflect on the philosophical implications. I saw the ending, I was moved by it and I consider it a good end to an awesome journey. That's enough for me. If it's not for you... well, you're free to dislike it as much as you want.

[Aetius5]

I originally abhorred Synthesis as I thought it was some trans-humanistic garbage BW was trying to stuff down our throats for no good reason. I chose Destroy originally because I did not trust the Catalyst or accept his logic. After hearing him out a second time, and really this was my second time, as I did not replay the ending until today, I think I would choose Synthesis. Destroy will only work in the short term and even then Shepard is killing all synthetics, friend or foe. Control is a very interesting solution, but after insisting the Illusive Man was wrong about it, I could not in good faith choose that. Synthesis is by far the most intriguing option, even though I hate the fact that Shepard must die and lose his awareness. Synthesis presents the opportunity to unite all life forms of the galaxy in a way that we could never begin to understand and thus I like it the most.

[Meohfumado]

t_skwerl wrote...

Meohfumado wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Mmm... I still don't get anti-synth types. Krogan are still Krogan, Turian are still Turian, etc, etc. Free will is still every life form's choice. The only way anyone is "the same" is on the inside and even then it could be argued that their organic "parts" still are diverse.

The only reason I personally don't like the synth ending is that Shep has to die. The only reason I don't like Destroy is that EDI and the Geth have to die...

Control... that's just creepy, man.

Imagine being forced to convert to being a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian, or any other religion...against your will.  With your only other option is death (conversion via the sword).

Asians will still be asians.  Latinos will still be Latino.   You still have free will.

The only way anyone is the "the same" is your religion, which was FORCED on you.

You don't think that might ****** some people off?

Totally different. It's change on a microscopic level and to some extent, appearance, not a belief system.

Its still forced uniformity, for whatever reason.  Doesn't matter what aspect of life is made uniform, its ethically and morally repugnant.

Could be something like "You have to eat apples every day to survive."  Well guess what, some people don't like apples.

It is abhorrant to think that peace cannot be achieved without some sort of fascist entity enforcing uniformity over everybody in the universe.   I really makes me question the ethics of the writers that they thought this theme was acceptable.

[Ultai]

Other endings have gotten better, control especially. I was interested to know what they'd do with synthesis, but every time I see the plants on that planet with circuits running through them I can't help but laugh and dismiss that ending.

[Blind Rapture]

Meohfumado wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Meohfumado wrote...

t_skwerl wrote...

Mmm... I still don't get anti-synth types. Krogan are still Krogan, Turian are still Turian, etc, etc. Free will is still every life form's choice. The only way anyone is "the same" is on the inside and even then it could be argued that their organic "parts" still are diverse.

The only reason I personally don't like the synth ending is that Shep has to die. The only reason I don't like Destroy is that EDI and the Geth have to die...

Control... that's just creepy, man.

Imagine being forced to convert to being a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian, or any other religion...against your will.  With your only other option is death (conversion via the sword).

Asians will still be asians.  Latinos will still be Latino.   You still have free will.

The only way anyone is the "the same" is your religion, which was FORCED on you.

You don't think that might ****** some people off?

Totally different. It's change on a microscopic level and to some extent, appearance, not a belief system.

Its still forced uniformity, for whatever reason.  Doesn't matter what aspect of life is made uniform, its ethically and morally repugnant.

Could be something like "You have to eat apples every day to survive."  Well guess what, some people don't like apples.

It is abhorrant to think that peace cannot be achieved without some sort of fascist entity enforcing uniformity over everybody in the universe.   I really makes me question the ethics of the writers that they thought this theme was acceptable.

I'm with you, it's actually kind of disgusting to me how many people find this solution not only acceptable but admirable.

[LegendaryBlade]

Control ending is best ending