362 réponses à ce sujet

[Welsh Inferno]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...
Or do people still think the Reapers could be defeated conventionally?  

/shrug

Citing events from ME3 to support that Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally is as convincing as citing proof from the Bible that Jesus is real.

Without trodding on religion, that is essentially what you would be doing, yes?  

In ME3 as written Reapers cannot be defeated conventionally.  Agreed and accepted.

But that is not the same as saying ME3 could not have been written otherwise had Bioware not decided to go with the Crucible/Catalyst-as-only-option ending.

Right. Other than the fact that if you refuse, the races TRIED and obviously failed to defeat them conventionally. The next cycle could have a chance at it IF they find Liara's beacon early AND advance their technology quick enough.

I'd rather not have it written that the races could defeat them conviontionally. It really makes the Reapers look like crap. As if they were never really a threat afterall. So what was the point? As written is how it is.

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 26 juin 2012 - 09:26 .

[Apathy1989]

samb wrote...

 It is fitting. Dumb choice for dumb people who couldn't see it coming from a mile away. 

[M0keys]

Uzzy wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...
This means all you do is kill everyone you know for no reason, hence the title name.

Yeah, no. Refusal means you stay true to the very core principles that make Shepard who he is. Everything he's fought for. You choose your own ending to civilization, rather then compromising those core principles to survive. You choose your own fate, rather then accepting the Starchild's spurious reasoning.

And then you die, having done everything possible to defy the fate chosen for you by the Reapers.

It's the only ending that makes thematic sense, and had they added in some playable (or otherwise) scenes of your forces fighting to the very end, ala Halo Reach, it'd quite possibly have saved the entire game.

And then the next cycle uses the crucible anyway! a total waste of time. whoever wrote this stuff literally hates Shepard and hates the players, using the game only as a soapbox for their views.

at least that's what I take away from it. the Starchild isn't just an antagonist, it's the writer himself.

[Comguard2]

qDragoonlordz

"He's on holiday shows much attention you pay to what goes on around you..."

You're joking, aren't you? You want to tell me that the holiday-schedules of forum managers should be something I shouldn't miss?

[TheBlackBaron]

humes spork wrote...

Well, of course it's dumb, and of course it's a finger in the eye of all the people who wanted Shepard to tell starbrat to **** off, then rainbows and puppies for everyone or whatever equally vapid prattle about which they went on.

No matter how dumb, insane, evil, circular, irrational, illogical, stupid, ignorant, arrogant, presumptuous, or whatever else starbrat may be, he's still the Reapers' boss. Like that narrative choice or not, that's a discussion for another time, but it is what it is and that's what we have.

And in the context of what we have, starbrat had nothing to gain really by even entertaining Shepard. It decided to be nice and explore the alternate ways to resolve the problem for which it was created the Crucible created, and engaged Shepard for that end. If it really wanted to, it could have just let Shepard bleed out next to Anderson and let the Reapers destroy the Crucible with absolutely no digitial skin off its synthetic ass. And, even in the face of Shepard, the Crucible, and an entire galaxy united to fight it, it still held all the cards. It was an enemy so powerful that origin, motivation, means and end were utterly meaningless but to itself.

...and people are mystified that flinging it the bird has the consequence of pissing it off to the point it says "**** it" and lets the cycle continue.

Sweet Zombie Jesus, it's everything I've wanted to say about the Reject ending wrapped up in a single post. 

[Deihjan]

Did anyone notice how the kid suddenly went mad and the voice changed completely? I laughed at that point.


But yeah, that was a kick in the quad xD I went back and replayed London's last 30mins to get a different ending

[recentio]

Comguard2 wrote...

Bioware really tries to intentionally annoy people.

Really, Priestly, are you listening? Why did you ask just a couple of weeks before if people believed in this Indoc-theory when at that time it was probably clear that there would be an extra-cutscene with the only purpose of giving the Indoc-people the finger?

Bioware = professional trolls.

Ah, now I see the great redemption of Reject. It finally cleans away all that IT tinhatting.

[chibilombax]

There is one good thing about that ending. I was listening to a friend play it over our headsets.

"You know what I'm going to shoot this ki-WOAH"

"What?"

"Something happened!!!"

So now my friend keeps going "SOOOOOO BEEE IT" in a reaper voice for laughs.

[Welsh Inferno]

Deihjan wrote...

Did anyone notice how the kid suddenly went mad and the voice changed completely? I laughed at that point.


But yeah, that was a kick in the quad xD I went back and replayed London's last 30mins to get a different ending

Hah, I did aswell. With a "screw you harby" then an "aww sh-" when I realised we all died. 

[Renmiri1]

M2S SOLID JOSH wrote...

as someone said on youtube- "refusal is just a big "f*ck you" from bioware to people who wanted a new ending"

Ya if you shoot the star brat the Reapers win. Serves you right for refusing to listen to Bioware's favorite kid!

[C9316]

I didn't think Bioware had it in them to make a choice even dumber than Synthesis, shows what I know.

[Dragoonlordz]

Comguard2 wrote...

qDragoonlordz

"He's on holiday shows much attention you pay to what goes on around you..."

You're joking, aren't you? You want to tell me that the holiday-schedules of forum managers should be something I shouldn't miss?

If you want to point fingers at them and target them as individuals then yes do your research.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 juin 2012 - 09:32 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Deihjan wrote...

Did anyone notice how the kid suddenly went mad and the voice changed completely? I laughed at that point.


But yeah, that was a kick in the quad xD I went back and replayed London's last 30mins to get a different ending

Would of been better if done in chipmonk voice though.

[Mcfly616]

Refusal.....awesome ending....simply awesome....waaaah, we lose waaahh.....well atleast everything makes sense now......and it does make sense


The next generation is really screwed if you people can't even accept that not everything can turn out peachy .....you can't save them all.....

[humes spork]

jumpingkaede wrote...

But that is not the same as saying ME3 could not have been written otherwise had Bioware not decided to go with the Crucible/Catalyst-as-only-option ending.

Yes, and Wrex could have gotten some good old-fashioned Man-Shep butt-lovin' if BW had written it that way.

Garrus could have been a transvestite that runs around in a pink-and-purple polka-dotted tutu if BW had written it that way.

The Reapers could actually have been good guys out to save the galaxy from the Reaper-Reapers who eat stars and crap dark energy if BW had written it that way.

Mass Effect could have been set in the same universe as Dragon Age and Joker could have hopped out the Normandy's airlock to find Morrigan standing right there giving the greatest "WTF?" look in video game history if BW had written it that way.

ME3 could have ended with Harbinger flying through the cosmos fingering Pinkie Pie and singing the goddamn nyan cat song if BW had written it that way.

Unfortunately, BioWare wrote none of that crap, and neither did they write in ME3 the Reapers could be defeated conventionally. Or, anywhere in the entire trilogy, really; the closest you get is the ending of ME1 when Shepard says s/he'll find a way to defeat the Reapers, which on its own has little to no meaning let alone a way to defeat the Reapers conventionally. Saying BW could have done one thing or another is about as useful as throwing a touchdown pass in a baseball game.

Modifié par humes spork, 26 juin 2012 - 09:33 .

[Deihjan]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Deihjan wrote...

Did anyone notice how the kid suddenly went mad and the voice changed completely? I laughed at that point.


But yeah, that was a kick in the quad xD I went back and replayed London's last 30mins to get a different ending

Hah, I did aswell. With a "screw you harby" then an "aww sh-" when I realised we all died. 

It was rather awesome to see Liara's box surviving into whatever future (it looked a lot like Eden Prime) and the new people talking at the end. Where they actually fixed the two humans talking, you know the ones, where the kid is just a resized adult model

[recentio]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Comguard2 wrote...

qDragoonlordz

"He's on holiday shows much attention you pay to what goes on around you..."

You're joking, aren't you? You want to tell me that the holiday-schedules of forum managers should be something I shouldn't miss?

If you want to point fingers at them and target them as individuals then yes do your research.

Don't bother with this one, Comguard2.

[Dragoonlordz]

humes spork wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

But that is not the same as saying ME3 could not have been written otherwise had Bioware not decided to go with the Crucible/Catalyst-as-only-option ending.

Yes, and Wrex could have gotten some good old-fashioned Man-Shep butt-lovin' if BW had written it that way.

Garrus could have been a transvestite that runs around in a pink-and-purple polka-dotted tutu if BW had written it that way.

The Reapers could actually have been good guys out to save the galaxy from the Reaper-Reapers who eat stars and crap dark energy if BW had written it that way.

Mass Effect could have been set in the same universe as Dragon Age and Joker could have hopped out the Normandy's airlock to find Morrigan standing right there giving the greatest "WTF?" look in video game history if BW had written it that way.

ME3 could have ended with Harbinger flying through the cosmos fingering Pinkie Pie and singing the goddamn nyan cat song if BW had written it that way.

Unfortunately, BioWare wrote none of that crap, and neither did they write in ME3 the Reapers could be defeated conventionally. Or, anywhere in the entire trilogy, really; the closest you get is the ending of ME1 when Shepard says s/he'll find a way to defeat the Reapers, which on its own has little to no meaning let alone a way to defeat the Reapers conventionally. Saying BW could have done one thing or another is about as useful as throwing a touchdown pass in a baseball game.

Your post made my day that was funny and true.

[sth128]

Meh, adding the EDI narration didn't stop Synthesis from being the Space **** option where everyone is now ZEE ULTIMATELY EVOLVED SUPREME RACE.

Also it stops evolution altogether by the sound of it, so all those primitive species will forever stay primitive. No new civilization will ever join the galactic community.

Heil Shepard I guess.

[Mcfly616]

C9316 wrote...

I didn't think Bioware had it in them to make a choice even dumber than Synthesis, shows what I know.

You mean, a choice to tell the StarBrat to F off, and go out a free man on your own terms? Yeah reeeeeeaaaal dumb.....haha wow.....people are complaining because we lost the cycle in that particular ending? What babies honestly.....go watch some Disney now children

[Swordfishtrombone]

The reject isn't stupid - it's stupid ONLY if we have the prior knowledge of what it, and the other choises lead to.

Without that knowledge, it is, by far, the most reasonable action to take, though not for the reasons Shepard gives for rejecting the options. It's most reasonable because Shepard has had a consistent experience of deals with the reapers ending up with whoever dealt with them getting indoctrinated, and ending up working for the reapers. Add to that the fact that the catalyst takes the form it takes directly from Sheppard's memories, which proves that the reapers have access to his memories, and are quite likely manipulating him in some way.

This means that Shepard absolutely should not believe anything the catalyst says - he should realize that the options the catlyst offers are just subtrefuges for an attempt at total indoctrination of Sheppard, and that choosing any of the options would most likely just lead to Sheppard becoming a tool of the reapers. On the other hand, the fact that they are offering these options to Sheppard, rather than killing him ouright, may mean that they are in a vulnerable position somehow - but to discover how, and to do something about it, you first have to get rid of this aparition that is telling you lies.

What IS truly stupid is that the catalyst is in fact, telling the truth. Suddenly co-operating with an organic because one got into the citadel? Suddenly reversing hundreds of thousands, or millions of years of consistent strategy because of Shepard? And the utterly unbelievable and scientifically implausible option of the synthesis - if Sheppard had the basic understanding of biology, this option would just be further proof that the catalyst is telling lies.

The story telling decisions that the writers made were stupid - the player choosing the most reasonable option, and not being gullible, is not stupid. Bioware rewarding gullibility is stupid.

[jengelb1]

humes spork wrote...

The Reapers could actually have been good guys out to save the galaxy from the Reaper-Reapers who eat stars and crap dark energy if BW had written it that way.

I don't see how the reapers being good guys saving us from synthetics is any less ridiculous than this. The stupid part is the whole "they were good guys along" crap. Maybe if Bioware hadn't set them up as sadistic and arrogant monsters, it'd be easier to swallow.

[DatRandomGuy1]

Reject ending in a nutshell:

[Terraforming2154]

Deihjan wrote...

Did anyone notice how the kid suddenly went mad and the voice changed completely? I laughed at that point.


But yeah, that was a kick in the quad xD I went back and replayed London's last 30mins to get a different ending

I didn't actually reject his choices (because I initially thought they would lead to instant game over), but I did turn to shoot him for the hell of it and got the refusal scene.
His voice made me jump pretty hard because I was just not expecting that reaction at all, lol.

[Dan Dark]

To all the people saying a conventional victory would have been impossible... Am I the only person here who read the gorram codex?! Seriously! It specifically stated four dreadnoughts working together are able to destroy a Reaper capital ship. And, yes, granted, there's a ton of Reapers.... but we don't really know just how many allied dreadnoughts there were; there's the few from the turians, asari, salarians, and humans, sure, but how many ships do the quarians have that could count? And how many did the geth build? ... not to mention how many ships were armed with Thanix cannons; they even fitted fighters with those, didn't they? Nearly every single ship in that fleet could have potentially posed a significant threat to a Reaper - we're both shown and told as much, in-game. So why didn't they use that? WHY?

Seriously, it ending as a guaranteed 'everyone dies, Reapers win' ending is ridiculous. I have no problem with that being possible, mind you - a 'Reapers win' ending was supposed to be there from the beginning. It's just frustrating, because they could have so easily incorporated EMS and prior choices to determine whether or not victory is possible that way, but noooo... They just had to deliberately screw over anyone who chose to disagree with their precious starchild...

This could have been amazing, but instead, it's just insulting.