362 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Honestly every single choice is ridculous.

Control? Shep's only seen that backfire.

Synthesis? Same. Shep also has no reason to believe it's even possible.

Destroy? Sure that'll work. Too bad Shep has to kill the Geth!

If you want to use the "well Shep's been told time and time again!" logic I hope you don't pick Synthesis or Control. Shep's told (and shown) time and time again that's not gonna work either.

[Welsh Inferno]

Dan Dark wrote...

To all the people saying a conventional victory would have been impossible... Am I the only person here who read the gorram codex?! Seriously! It specifically stated four dreadnoughts working together are able to destroy a Reaper capital ship.
 

 
Yeah. Have fun co-ordinating those four dreadnoughts into firing position to target a single moving & coming after you Reaper in that mass of thousands if not tens of thousands of vessels. without them taking a shedload of damage. Not as easy as you put it.

Dan Dark wrote...
And, yes, granted, there's a ton of Reapers.... but we don't really know just how many allied dreadnoughts there were; there's the few from the turians, asari, salarians, and humans, sure, but how many ships do the quarians have that could count? And how many did the geth build?

 

Semantics. They outnumber us, period.

 

Dan Dark wrote...
... not to mention how many ships were armed with Thanix cannons; they even fitted fighters with those, didn't they? 

 

A thanix cannon fitted onto a fighter is nowhere near as powerful as that of a Frigate's version. The specifics are stated in a codex entry somewhere. 

 

Dan Dark wrote...
Seriously, it ending as a guaranteed 'everyone dies, Reapers win' ending is ridiculous. I have no problem with that being possible, mind you - a 'Reapers win' ending was supposed to be there from the beginning. It's just frustrating, because they could have so easily incorporated EMS and prior choices to determine whether or not victory is possible that way, but noooo... They just had to deliberately screw over anyone who chose to disagree with their precious starchild...

They said they wern't changing the endings months ago. Sorry you got your hopes up too high. I hated the endings to by the way. 

Modifié par Welsh Inferno, 26 juin 2012 - 10:19 .

[Necrotron]

M2S SOLID JOSH wrote...

as someone said on youtube- "refusal is just a big "f*ck you" from bioware to people who wanted a new ending"

I wouldn't express it with such explicit language and I'm sure that wasn't their intention, but given the fact that the majority of the playerbase outright rejected and despised the original three choices given and especially how they were presented, finding out that choosing the only other option given to us gets us essentially a modified Game Over screen is frustrating and could be interpretated as a bit of a passive agressive stab at the rejection of the original ending from the developer.

Again, I do not think that was their intention, but many will interpret it that way. 

Modifié par Bathaius, 26 juin 2012 - 10:18 .

[Tocquevillain]

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

Tocquevillain wrote...

Swordfishtrombone wrote...

The reject isn't stupid - it's stupid ONLY if we have the prior knowledge of what it, and the other choises lead to.

Without that knowledge, it is, by far, the most reasonable action to take, though not for the reasons Shepard gives for rejecting the options. It's most reasonable because Shepard has had a consistent experience of deals with the reapers ending up with whoever dealt with them getting indoctrinated, and ending up working for the reapers. Add to that the fact that the catalyst takes the form it takes directly from Sheppard's memories, which proves that the reapers have access to his memories, and are quite likely manipulating him in some way.

This means that Shepard absolutely should not believe anything the catalyst says - he should realize that the options the catlyst offers are just subtrefuges for an attempt at total indoctrination of Sheppard, and that choosing any of the options would most likely just lead to Sheppard becoming a tool of the reapers. On the other hand, the fact that they are offering these options to Sheppard, rather than killing him ouright, may mean that they are in a vulnerable position somehow - but to discover how, and to do something about it, you first have to get rid of this aparition that is telling you lies.

What IS truly stupid is that the catalyst is in fact, telling the truth. Suddenly co-operating with an organic because one got into the citadel? Suddenly reversing hundreds of thousands, or millions of years of consistent strategy because of Shepard? And the utterly unbelievable and scientifically implausible option of the synthesis - if Sheppard had the basic understanding of biology, this option would just be further proof that the catalyst is telling lies.

The story telling decisions that the writers made were stupid - the player choosing the most reasonable option, and not being gullible, is not stupid. Bioware rewarding gullibility is stupid.

You know what the most interesting thing about this post is? That your points can all be refuted by simply playing the game and acting on the information given in the game. Despite Bioware laying out everything in the EC, taking away all the mystery surrounding the Starchild, you still want to run off and imagine Shepard is being manipulated. To prove your point that refusal is the best option in a science fiction video game ending, you choose to take facts not given to you in the game ("scientifically implausible" etc) and let that make your decision.

I mean, I get it, you think you're really commander Shepard, but try relating your posts to the information we were given in the video game to make your point.

What is the source of all of the information you get off the starchild? The stachild.

If you think the starchild is simply a deception, you obviously cannot trust what the starchild claims of the starchild. And I believe there's more than adequate reason for Sheppard to think, at that point, that he is being deceived.

The aggravating thing is that you aren't given an option to express that distrust as the reason for rejecting the options.

As for the scientific implausiblility of the synthesis option, do you disagree? If so, I'd like to hear a proposed mechanism for how it could happen, because I certainly cannot think of one. And "life energy" being referenced is truly a face-palm moment for anyone with basic understanding of biology.  It might work in fantasy, but not in scifi.

*You think the Starchild is a deception. --> You are not given any information to make this call, except you think there's a good enough reason. What exactly is that reason?

*You believe synthesis is implausible in-game and is  not acceptable in a science fiction game, but accept that humans can have telekinetic powers in a science fiction game. There is no evidence that either is plausible, except in a game with fantasy elements, which is what Mass Effect is. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance there. You've accepted that one can happen but can't accept that the other can happen because you believe Mass Effect's codex to be an adequate attempt to explain away fantasy as science. This is incorrect.

 

[Mcfly616]

Dan Dark wrote...

Another problem I'm seeing here... With the original endings, the message as basically "No matter what you do, you're still gonna die in the end." But with this ending, the message seems to be "Stay true to yourself, never compromise your morals and ideals... and you will destroy everything! Everybody dies!"

I get it; not everything in real-life always turns out well, but, first off, this isn't real life, and second... Is that REALLY the kind of message you'd want to give people?

Dude....its a classic Sci Fi ending....are you familiar with any "real" sci fi series throughout history?....if you were, these consequences would be no surprise to you or anyone.....imo I love the refusal ending, I was pleasantly surprised when it was my first EC ending experienced(accidently)....and I thought it was great.

The Catalyst(I still hate that he's that damn child) explains everything PERFECTLY. I amwas able to ask everything I could ever want to. And he obliged. And the epilogue was perfect in length. There's a lot of variation with which characters you see in the epilogue.

Yesterday I was still someone that hated the ending with such a passion, that I wished gfor the life of me that IT were true(I still could be I guess). But now? Now I look forward to it. I look forward to the choice. At 5:15am this morning, I still hated everything about those last ten minutes.

Now? Well, now I feel like a Hero again. I feel like a goddammit Space Pimp! I went out with some balls. My destroy ending was great! Refusal was awesome.....screw the other two choices(just kidding! Lol)

Thank you Bioware...

I don't want to change anybody's mind or convince them that its great. I just want to voice my true appreciation, since it seems many want to voice their criticism. You guys pulled me back in. Honestly. I never thought it would be possible.

I guess I never did really doubt you. I just simply knew you couldn't do it. But you did. Thanks for the answers. Thanks for the closure while also bringing hope for a new beginning. I love those types of stories.

[M0keys]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Dan Dark wrote...

Another problem I'm seeing here... With the original endings, the message as basically "No matter what you do, you're still gonna die in the end." But with this ending, the message seems to be "Stay true to yourself, never compromise your morals and ideals... and you will destroy everything! Everybody dies!"

I get it; not everything in real-life always turns out well, but, first off, this isn't real life, and second... Is that REALLY the kind of message you'd want to give people?

Dude....its a classic Sci Fi ending....are you familiar with any "real" sci fi series throughout history?

mass effect is science fantasy. it has no singular concept to build on, explore, and finish. It treats its canon the way most fantasy stories do. the fact that it basically topples its entire semi-scientific foundation with its ending is just the cherry on top of it all...

[Jenonax]

I loved the refusal ending. I chose to reject the Catalyst and felt justified in doing so the second the frankly terrifying Harbinger like voice came out of him (I am now utterly perplexed by the true nature of the Catalyst but that is besides the point).

Just wish Shepard would have followed through on actually fighting the damn Reapers afterwards. But all in all it was nice to have Commander Shepard back.

Can I has Reject Banner pleez?

[M0keys]

Jenonax wrote...

I loved the refusal ending. I chose to reject the Catalyst and felt justified in doing so the second the frankly terrifying Harbinger like voice came out of him (I am now utterly perplexed by the true nature of the Catalyst but that is besides the point).

Just wish Shepard would have followed through on actually fighting the damn Reapers afterwards. But all in all it was nice to have Commander Shepard back.

Can I has Reject Banner pleez?

the next cycle used the crucible anyway, so... your efforts are a moot point, sorta kinda.

sucks huh?

[Anacronian Stryx]

So what about this rumor that if you got more than 7300 in war assets you can actually duke it out with the reapers by selecting refusal.. or is that just a Internet rumor, I haven't checked it out yet.

[M0keys]

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So what about this rumor that if you got more than 7300 in war assets you can actually duke it out with the reapers by selecting refusal.. or is that just a Internet rumor, I haven't checked it out yet.

total fabrication

[Anacronian Stryx]

M0keys wrote...

Anacronian Stryx wrote...

So what about this rumor that if you got more than 7300 in war assets you can actually duke it out with the reapers by selecting refusal.. or is that just a Internet rumor, I haven't checked it out yet.

total fabrication

Damn, That would have been awesome though.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The Rejection ending results in Catalyst's voice changing to a Reaper-like voice, followed by a new Stargazer, who talks as if the Reapers eventually got defeated... so how exactly is the Rejection ending an FU to the IT from Bioware?

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 26 juin 2012 - 11:13 .

[Tocquevillain]

Mcfly616 wrote...



Dude....its a classic Sci Fi ending....are you familiar with any "real" sci fi series throughout history?....if you were, these consequences would be no surprise to you or anyone.....imo I love the refusal ending, I was pleasantly surprised when it was my first EC ending experienced(accidently)....and I thought it was great.
 

Examples? 

[M0keys]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

The Rejection ending results in Catalyst's voice changing to a Reaper-like voice, followed by a new Stargazer, who talks as if the Reapers eventually got defeated... so how exactly is the Rejection ending an FU to the IT from Bioware?

the next cycle uses the crucible

which means that whoever wrote it must've wrote it with the intention of showing "rejecters" how whiny and childlike they all are.

"you couldn't man up, you big baby, but these guys could! you accomplished nothing except everyone died."

Modifié par M0keys, 26 juin 2012 - 11:16 .

[Tocquevillain]

M0keys wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

The Rejection ending results in Catalyst's voice changing to a Reaper-like voice, followed by a new Stargazer, who talks as if the Reapers eventually got defeated... so how exactly is the Rejection ending an FU to the IT from Bioware?

the next cycle uses the crucible

which means that whoever wrote it must've wrote it with the intention of showing "rejecters" how whiny and childlike they all are.

"you couldn't man up, you big baby, but these guys could! you accomplished nothing except everyone died."

Why would you even assume that? Bioware wanted to end the story a certain way. They did. Fin.

[element eater]

not a dumb choice at all its choosing freedom and death over compromise and life.
many people said this should be in the ending so good of bioware to do it

[Jenonax]

M0keys wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

I loved the refusal ending. I chose to reject the Catalyst and felt justified in doing so the second the frankly terrifying Harbinger like voice came out of him (I am now utterly perplexed by the true nature of the Catalyst but that is besides the point).

Just wish Shepard would have followed through on actually fighting the damn Reapers afterwards. But all in all it was nice to have Commander Shepard back.

Can I has Reject Banner pleez?

the next cycle used the crucible anyway, so... your efforts are a moot point, sorta kinda.

sucks huh?

Can you love something that sucks?  I guess so, because I do.  I don't like the fact I don't get a conventional victory afterwards but I have always rejected the Catalyst, he confirms he is a bloody Reaper and that he forced his creators to become Harbinger, why the heck would I trust him?  I loved the bits where I'm Shepard again, the rest sucks.

Still want that banner though.

[jakal66]

so basically in the end it is what most people try to deny here but in the end it's just that, many of you just wanted a near perfect ending with sheppard alive all your pal alive all your resources and allies mostly alive,geth alive, quarians alive LI alive, you see the point? Oh and let's not forget to this you have to add kicking the reaper's ass too! Of course, friggin mickey mouse ending...and all your mascariding for plot holes and this and that but in the end it's all about people not coping with the fact that sometimes there are casualties, sometimes the hero dies and sometimes, just sometimes you can't get what you want...

I am happy Bioware diapointed everyone looking for a rainbow bright ending...very happy indeed

[frostajulie]

I love the refusal option and it works perfect for many incarnations of Shepard it is not dumb it is making a moral decision and drawing a line in the sand and determining not to cross it. Yeah we lose and die but the soul of who we are lives on and I know its a romantic notion but some of my Shepards are romantics and would always refuse.

[Astralify]

Dan Dark wrote...

Another problem I'm seeing here... With the original endings, the message as basically "No matter what you do, you're still gonna die in the end." But with this ending, the message seems to be "Stay true to yourself, never compromise your morals and ideals... and you will destroy everything! Everybody dies!"

I get it; not everything in real-life always turns out well, but, first off, this isn't real life, and second... Is that REALLY the kind of message you'd want to give people?

That's a good question.

Amm.....screw this! I'm done with EaWare and their games.

[Lazarus Cricket]

Refusal still the best ending, only viable one at least even though its not a particulary good one.
It seems to me that the crucible is likely a reaper device, using it in any capacity could be part of their design, its better to die so that we free the next cycle.

Who the hell in a real situation would trust or do anything some weird space kid said, who is disgusing itself as a child from your nightmares in an attempt to manipulate you.

He doesn't speak in a neutral manner, any logic would suggest his motives are suspect.

I prefer heroic stories to not have "realistic" endings, I think thats their excuse for RGB endings, Like mowing down thousands of enemy soldiers was "realistic". (Artistic intengrity is a lie, there is no artist without the audience)

I prefer uplifting morals of the triumph of human spirit, comradery and friendship overcoming great trials, perservering with honor, and heroic values of justice and freedom that society puts in stories because thats what we want to emulate and it's what we value, not this nihilism garbage.

damn you space kid

Modifié par Lazarus Cricket, 27 juin 2012 - 01:26 .

[UWxMaserati]

They should have set a really high EMS standard for this to work. Like 15000 or something haha

[Lazarus Cricket]

EDIT: sorry, double post

Modifié par Lazarus Cricket, 27 juin 2012 - 01:22 .

[The Spamming Troll]

id like to play a series the follows the choice from the reject conclusion.

you know, the one were we beat the reapers without ever needing to be introduced to starfart.