100 réponses à ce sujet

[Jerrybnsn]

Scalett Dragonavicious wrote...
.................. I felt like she/he was one of the worst protagonists ever, but that might just be because I was disappointed compared to the awesomeness that was DAO.........

I think a lot of both was the problem with DA2.  Origins had a certain gear that it was in from start to finish, while DA2 was spinning its wheels with no plot.   I think they were more concern with "Hey, look how the protagonist talks and interacts with other npcs!" , oh, and the awesome button.

[Jerrybnsn]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Bourne2Play wrote...

 Not so much with DA2. This whole game, including its main plot quests, felt like SIDE quests. This game had no reason to exist whatsoever. What a major disapointment.

And another believer is converted.  This will add to our war assets for that perfect ending we are looking for.

QUICK! Does someone have the iPad app? Otherwise we won't unlock the secret "Duncan Breathes" scene!

The Warden had blue glowing eyes, Hawk had red, so I fully expect the third (awesome) protagonist to have green glowing eyes.

[LobselVith8]

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

if none of you really get the purpose or think there is no purpose, then theres no point in trying to explain it to you

I don't get the point in a passive protagonist or in templars and mages being one-dimensional cartoons. Dragon Age II mishandles the mage-templar dichotomy by not having an intelligent schism between two rational factions, but instead having both sides become irrational villains who seldom make any sense. Should I applaud Dragon Age II when Origins did a better job at conveying three-dimensional mages and templars? It became such a joke that the DLC had Hawke poking fun at how insane everyone in Kirkwall is. Even Hawke doing little more than fighting is also addressed in DLC in how he simply punched his way to being Champion.

[LolaLei]

I look it as the story setup to the next game. I don't think it was supposed to be like that, but it feels that way to me.

Modifié par LolaLei, 28 juin 2012 - 01:20 .

[hussey 92]

Faerunner wrote...

The cynic in me wants to say the point of the game was to completely subvert everything DA:O stood for so they can attract a whole new fanbase and go on making ME and CoD clones in the future.

The pragmatist in me wants to say it was a set-up for the Next Big Conflict in the next game, and possibly kill time in-universe for when Morrigan's OGB returns fully grown and ready to change the world in the future. (Hey, it could help explain why it takes place over several years for no otherwise adequately explained reason.)

The real point is up for debate, though.

It's unfortunate, but I think the cynic in you is right.  Also I Don't think the OGB is canon, so I doubt we wil see him in DA3.

[wsandista]

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

motomotogirl wrote...

MagmaSaiyan wrote...

if none of you really get the purpose or think there is no purpose, then theres no point in trying to explain it to you

Yeah, I'm starting to see this.  I think a lot of people need traditional plot-oriented narratives.  More experimental narratives are just not well-received.  Though I'm sure there are a few of us who tire of the traditional narrative, especially the traditional sword-and-sorcery narrative, which is what DA:O was.  I mean, I liked the game, but I probably would have loved it more when I was a kid and just discovering books that told similar stories.

Yes, because rags to riches plots are completely unheard of. DA2 didn't do anyhing revolutionary. It did do most things poorly though.

How many crpgs do you know that have rags to riches plots? There are far more with the traditional narrative of kill the Big Bad Evil. Ultima IV continues to be one of my favorite crpgs because it does not use the traditional narrative. DA2 ranks up there with me for the same reason.

Neverwinter Nights 2 Storm of Zehir arguably.

[Auroras]

Dragon Age II definitely had a purpose, it's just not as painfully obvious standard fantasy fare as DA:O. The purpose of the game was to show the beginning of the fall of the most powerful institution in Thedas, and to set up the events of future games in the DA universe.

[SafetyShattered]

The main point for DA2 was to build the conflict between the mages and the templars. The first act, at least to me, felt like total filler.

[gao gao]

good question, OP. the point of this game was to make money.

i hope this helps.

another question i'd like to ask is where did this awesome installment leave us, in terms of the story? i, for one, have absolutely no idea.

i'd also like to add that anyone who buys da3 is a sucker.

[Realmzmaster]

wsandista wrote...

Neverwinter Nights 2 Storm of Zehir arguably.

Arguably (SIT is a little bit of a stretch), but it shows the point. There are not many crpgs that have a rags to riches story.

[wsandista]

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Neverwinter Nights 2 Storm of Zehir arguably.

Arguably (SIT is a little bit of a stretch), but it shows the point. There are not many crpgs that have a rags to riches story.

It isn't a personal R2R tale, it involves making a flailing company extremley profitable though, so it is R2R. CRPGs might not do it often, but the tale has been done before.

CRPGs also don't commonly involve Black Ops teams in a modern setting either(which IMO if done either RTw/P or TB would be amazing), but tales about Black Ops teams abound.

[Swordfishtrombone]

All I can think of for the reason behind DA2's unfocused story is that it was there to set up the scenario for ME3, which will now have a clearer goal: to resolve the mage-templar conflict, and save ferelden and the free marches from being torn apart by an all-out war.

If DA2's setup isn't used in the story of DA3, then I'll be very confused - then DA2's story seems to have been left on a kind of a cliff hanger, without resolution, and it would seem pointless and rather frustrating.

I think that the kind of story DA2 had was something of an experiment by Bioware on how a story that didn't have a clear over-arching fantasy "save the world/kingdom/princess" goal from the start would work, and how it would be received.

I don't mind experimenting with story structure, but I'd chalk this experiment on the "didn't quite work" column.

That said, I don't view DA2 as quite the failure many people see it as - it has severe flaws that have been pointed out by many people including myself, and is a pale shadow of what DA:O was, but as a stand-alone game, if we don't compare it to it's predecessor, it's decent enough, and does have some positives as well. (Like character writing)

I fully agree with the OP though that the game feels like a series of sidequests - when you look at the journal that differentiates between side quests, companion quests, and main line quests, at any given point, it's baffling to the first time player why some quest is a mainline quest while another is not.

[Reznik23]

[quote]LeBurns wrote...

[quote]Bourne2Play wrote...


What can really get your goat is if you go back and read all the professional reviews of the game when it first came out.

http://www.metacriti.../critic-reviews 

No one with any real merit could rate this game the way they did ... but they did.  This game alone turned me completely against professional reviews and has made me avoid completely many gaming sites that I used to go to a lot.  It was also a major wake up call to the power of EA and what money can buy.

[/quote]

I've also really given up on porfessional game reviews lately. I mean; Skyrim for PS3 was given pretty much unanimous perfect scores in all the magazines, online sites etc... and it is a broken, unplayable mess. You sometimes wonder what goes on in the world of game journalism...

[Reznik23]

Oops, I messed up my quote framing there - I actually wrote that last bit, not LeBurns.
Sorry mate.

[Plaintiff]

The 'point' is to tell a story. Which DA2 did. Maybe you didn't like it, but that is irrelevent to whether or not it succeeded in its goal. I hate lots of stories, but they don't stop being stories just because I hate them.

[Daerog]

It was the prequel to DA3... that's how it felt to me.
Even though Origins was better, DA2 was still fun. Just hope DA3 will lean more toward DAO than DA2, don't mind the voice acting, but DA2 did feel like it was lacking.

[Realmzmaster]

wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Neverwinter Nights 2 Storm of Zehir arguably.

Arguably (SIT is a little bit of a stretch), but it shows the point. There are not many crpgs that have a rags to riches story.

It isn't a personal R2R tale, it involves making a flailing company extremley profitable though, so it is R2R. CRPGs might not do it often, but the tale has been done before.

CRPGs also don't commonly involve Black Ops teams in a modern setting either(which IMO if done either RTw/P or TB would be amazing), but tales about Black Ops teams abound.

I never said it had not been done before. You can count on one hand the number of times it has happen. I do not believe you can do that with the Hero's journey or traditional narrative.

[hussey 92]

Plaintiff wrote...

The 'point' is to tell a story. Which DA2 did. Maybe you didn't like it, but that is irrelevent to whether or not it succeeded in its goal. I hate lots of stories, but they don't stop being stories just because I hate them.

But why did we need to hear this story?  Was it just to set up DA3?  And if it was, why did we need to hear how Hawke got rich?

[wsandista]

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Neverwinter Nights 2 Storm of Zehir arguably.

Arguably (SIT is a little bit of a stretch), but it shows the point. There are not many crpgs that have a rags to riches story.

It isn't a personal R2R tale, it involves making a flailing company extremley profitable though, so it is R2R. CRPGs might not do it often, but the tale has been done before.

CRPGs also don't commonly involve Black Ops teams in a modern setting either(which IMO if done either RTw/P or TB would be amazing), but tales about Black Ops teams abound.

I never said it had not been done before. You can count on one hand the number of times it has happen. I do not believe you can do that with the Hero's journey or traditional narrative.

*shrug* Maybe because the traditional narrative works very well for this type of game.

[Realmzmaster]

wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Neverwinter Nights 2 Storm of Zehir arguably.

Arguably (SIT is a little bit of a stretch), but it shows the point. There are not many crpgs that have a rags to riches story.

It isn't a personal R2R tale, it involves making a flailing company extremley profitable though, so it is R2R. CRPGs might not do it often, but the tale has been done before.

CRPGs also don't commonly involve Black Ops teams in a modern setting either(which IMO if done either RTw/P or TB would be amazing), but tales about Black Ops teams abound.

I never said it had not been done before. You can count on one hand the number of times it has happen. I do not believe you can do that with the Hero's journey or traditional narrative.

*shrug* Maybe because the traditional narrative works very well for this type of game.

Which is why a change is refreshing. It breaks up the same old same old.

[wsandista]

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

*shrug* Maybe because the traditional narrative works very well for this type of game.

Which is why a change is refreshing. It breaks up the same old same old.

Only if done well. DA2 forced Hawke to sit on his/her arse for 3 year blocks while the world goes to hell.

[Realmzmaster]

wsandista wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

wsandista wrote...

*shrug* Maybe because the traditional narrative works very well for this type of game.

Which is why a change is refreshing. It breaks up the same old same old.

Only if done well. DA2 forced Hawke to sit on his/her arse for 3 year blocks while the world goes to hell.

That boils down to a matter of opinion whether it was done well or not. That where we will have to agree to disagree.

[Aulis Vaara]

Orian Tabris wrote...

You can blame EA for a lack of purpose, I think.

Actually, you can blame some of the fans. After Dragon Age: Origins, there were a bunch of fans who wanted the protagonist not to be hero who saves the world. I have no idea why anyone would do that, as it's a terribly boring concept to most people.

Dragon Age: Origins was epic and classic RPG, and that's why it was awesome. None of that remains now, so as much as I want the answers to the mysteries of Thedas, I afraid the next game will still not be on the level of Origins at all. Mass Effect 3's epic fail really destroyed any hope I had left.

[Eilaras]

LolaLei wrote...

I look it as the story setup to the next game. I don't think it was supposed to be like that, but it feels that way to me.

I agree!