358 réponses à ce sujet

[Jarcander]

clennon8 wrote...

Reposted from a thread I started that quickly plummeted to page 3 without response:

That's a good read, but are you *really* done with Mass Effect? I'm almost tempted to create a stalk-list to see how many really mean this and won't be back for the next title situated in the Mass Effect universe. Don't make any promises you can't keep.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

And now, we have people denying the personhood of their victims, and claiming that they have committed no crime by killing them. Man, I should make a bingo card. This is seriously the freakiest thing I've seen in a long time. I'm beginning to wonder if this is some kind of human psycholology experiment.

Wow. I'm not the only person wondering this about the game. You know on the 360 and PS3 about 90% are connected to the internet, and I'd assume the same with the PCs and I've wondered that since the achievements are awarded if the choices are being recorded as well. It's like they're researching how to market fascism this century. Scary if you think about it.

Okay, I'm putting my aluminum foil hat on, now.

[Deltoran]

The new endings were...adequate, they could've done so much more. A Shepard reunion would be nice, and a more logical argument/rejection with starchild that doesn't result in the reapers killing everyone. To me, it feels as if Bioware did just enough to turn the fanbase against itself so they wouldn't have to listen anymore. But hey, what do I know.

[Memnon]

Jarcander wrote...

clennon8 wrote...

Reposted from a thread I started that quickly plummeted to page 3 without response:

That's a good read, but are you *really* done with Mass Effect? I'm almost tempted to create a stalk-list to see how many really mean this and won't be back for the next title situated in the Mass Effect universe. Don't make any promises you can't keep.

I can't speak for anyone else, but as irritated I am with the endings I will still probably buy more BW games, including the ME universe. I WON'T however preorder any more collector's editions ... for what that's worth

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Geneaux486 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
No it's still true.

Again, Shepard's limited options are the result of countless civilizations making the Crucible to certain specifications, the current galactic community ignoring the threat until it was already on their doorstep, and the Reapers themselves for necessitating such rash actions.  It is not a war crime to use the Crucible, in fact the only true war crime is the ending in which Shepard refuses to use it.

So you're saying that if you have a weapon that can end a war in three ways, two of which have no casulaties and one which commits genocide, it's not a warcrime to use the weapon on the "warcrime" setting rather than on one of the other settings?

Makes sense.

So you're basically agreeing with me that we're not forced to commit a warcrime.  Good on ya.

Oh, a sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention.

Once again the argument is "Deliberately killing every single member of a race isn't a crime if it  saves my life and I think it's cooler than my other options that would also save everone except me."

If you don't see why that's a bad moral for a work of fiction to have, I can't help you.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 26 juin 2012 - 11:08 .

[Saul Iscariot]

I can not for the life of me figure out how people that didn't like the ending are happy now. All you got what was you should have been able to figure out on your own, do you enjoy books that come with numbers and crayons? Get used to both, you'll become more acquainted with them as your domicile gets comfier walls.

[RevanShepard]

The endings are much better now, since we actually get to see most of the consequences to our actions. I just have a few small problems like:

No confrontation with Habringer.
The quarian-geth conflict that my Shepard resolved somehow had no impact on Starchilds "the created will destroy their creators" argument.
Normandy crash has now gone from "wtf" to "pointless".
Shepard's death is now conflicting and ambiguous, since I got both the memorial and breath scenes.

Don't mistake me for a anti-ender. The EC has significantly improved the ending and I now consider it a good one.

[77boy84]

The endings are still fundamentally flawed and just don't fit, EC did not and can not fix that.

[sylnnn]

Because I didn't get the option to toss Anderson's body in to the beam to "synthesize".

[moonlightwolf]

MentalKase wrote...

One thing that is still not answered was how my squadmates got picked up on earth.

Another thing for sure is that the indoctrination theory has been put to rest.

It is if you start from london or the cerberus base though that does seem to be the only additional content outside of the endings.

[Geneaux486]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
Oh, a sarcasm detector, that's a real useful invention.

Once again the argument is "Deliberately killing every single member of a race isn't a crime if it  saves my life and I think it's cooler than my other options that would also save everone except me."

If you don't see why that's a bad moral for a work of fiction to have, I can't help you.

I wasn't being sarcastic.  Basically my stance is that Shepard has to make a galaxy-changing decision in a short amount of time, having to clean up everyone else's mess.  The extinction of the Geth and EDI is, in my opinion, neither necesarry nor justifiable, but I would still say the blame for such an act truly rests on the Reapers themselves.  Plus there's the scenario where destroy is the only option to consider.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 26 juin 2012 - 11:11 .

[Captain_Obvious]

MassEffect762 wrote...

For me it'd be feeling like a hero, that's missing.

That and a glimpse of blue babies or a reunion with crew/LI.

Guess that's it in a nutshell, no heroic moment with the gal. imo.

Pretty much this. 

[iamthedave3]

I think people are making more of the changes than they should. not that much has been done to address some of the biggest complaints.

Personally I'm satisfied that the ending is now just bad instead of one of the worst in videogame history. It has some good pathos and at least makes logical sense, and lacks blatant editing snafus like in the original version.

I don't demand that endings be good. Everyone has the right to write crap. It's a pity though.

I feel they should have considered developing the Destroy 'survival' scene into a reunion scene; it would have pleased many people. I don't mind myself, but from a simple design standpoint I think it would have been a wise decision.

Modifié par iamthedave3, 26 juin 2012 - 11:12 .

[MaleQuariansFTW]

Saul Iscariot wrote...

I can not for the life of me figure out how people that didn't like the ending are happy now. All you got what was you should have been able to figure out on your own, do you enjoy books that come with numbers and crayons? Get used to both, you'll become more acquainted with them as your domicile gets comfier walls.

Duh-doy. People feel they shouldn't have to have guessed what happens. People don't like thnking up their own ending. They want to be spoon fed, especially with this series. We've invested so much time into it, we want pay off and closure. 

Now I'm the one who can't figure out why you can't figure that out.

[Reorte]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Reorte wrote...


No, it is NOT genocide because you are not deliberately trying to destroy the geth. It is the difference between leaving someone to stay behind to save the rest, knowing that they'll probably die and shooting that person.

You can argue about whether it was the right choice, whether it was justified or utterly unacceptable but it simply is not genocide.

It's nothing like that. It's like an alien race blowing up the entire planet earth because one country fired a missile at them. If an alien race killed every single creature on earth because it was the easiest way to kill the one person who attacked them, it would still be genocide,

How on earth do you come to that conclusion? The Reapers have done a hell of a lot more than fire one missile. They very, very definitely threaten the lives of every single advanced species in the galaxy, and most non-advanced ones that just happen to be on the same planets.

No-one is attacking the geth. If an alien race killed every creature on earth because it was the only convincing way to stop themselves and everyone else they knew from being wiped out they'd be entirely justified in doing it. It's not the easiest way. What are the alternatives? Control is a massive, massive gamble on everyone's lives, not just the geth's. Synthesis is vile for reasons that have been discussed thoroughly enough elsewhere. And now we've got the new choice of letting the Reapers kill everyone else anyway.

Deliberate means "with full realization of what one is doing." Unless you don't realize that the red beam will kill the geth, you are deliberately killing them. If that's not genocide, it's pretty darn close.

Deliberate means that your intention is to kill the geth, that's why you chose it.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that genocide requires intent? At worst it's the difference between murder and manslaughter. All too often I see people latch onto incomplete definitions of words, say "They're bad" and therefore act as if that defines everything. Look beyond the words at what's actually going on instead of "Killing lots of people == genocide == bad and therefore you shouldn't do it." That's oversimplifying far too much.

[Hawat]

Yes, I like the endings a bit more now. Got through "reject" and "destroy" so far and I shot Catalyst by accident and had to watch "reject" twice (Damn you, Bioware, that weird voice made me jump after shooting the little bugger). I find it much more satisfying with more explanation and "destroy" ending gives you a little hope, that your LI will be reunited with Shepard

[MaleQuariansFTW]

RevanShepard wrote...

Shepard's death is now conflicting and ambiguous, since I got both the memorial and breath scenes.

Garrus didn't put the name up on the board, he held it and it faded to black, then the breath shot. To me that indicates he knew Shep wasn't dead. In the other 2 endings he does put his name up on the board, saying that yes they really believe he's dead.

[Subject M]

If someone sells you a car that turns out to be rusty, really bad breaks and non-functioning headlights you wont say "Everything is fine" if it just gets a new paint-job and new breaks. The rust is still there and the headlights are still out of order. In other words: If you like me, is a rpg fan/nerd who takes the story more seriously then most people, you are probably still not satisfied.

[cellotlix]

Those that are mad about the 'insulting' 4th ending- what did you think was going to happen? It was made very clear from the beginning that the galactic forces would not be able to engage the Reapers conventionally; in fact, most occasions of doing so ended in disaster. What happened on Earth? Thessia? Palaven? Rejecting Starchild was rejecting the solution everyone had worked so hard to build with the knowledge that it was their only chance. So if you want to make a principled stand, you should be prepared for the consequences.

[ShadowSoldier89]

I have improved my original graph and now present this one

[Barbie__Boy]

the ending is better, I might actually call it "meh" with is a HUGE Improvement

still full of plot holes and creates some new ones and overall unsatisfying and choices that doesn't matter at all

btw, anyone saw ANY rachni at all?

Modifié par Barbie__Boy, 26 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[mcguireptr1]

I don't understand how anyone thought the endings were good, or even acceptable. the last ten minutes underminds the rest of the series, we are confronted with magic and god like AI, the logic for the very heart of the conflict is flawed beyond belief(and desproven depending on how you play) and in the end the choices are always the same and the outcome of those choices led to nothing or ambaguity. If this was an end to the series then we should get the end, not maybe this will and maybe that will happen, but instead get legitimate outcomes.
I am ok with Shepard having to die, hell I could deal even if all the normady died. What I am not ok with is the nonsencical child giving fundamentally flawed choices and me going "Yeah, ok I will do whatever you say migical Starchild because it is not like you are the leader and creator of those reaper things that are trying to kill us all," "oh, wait you are. Oh, wait....oops"

[iggy4566]

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

I have improved my original graph and now present this one

Shadow of the colossus and Ico those two games and their endings are Art Pure art they along with Flower and Joruney  to change them that would be messing artist vision.

Modifié par iggy4566, 26 juin 2012 - 11:22 .

[nwntask]

For a game that,for over 90 hours of gameplay,if nothing less stood up for the idea of free will and respect for all life (organic or not),and was pretty much all about the choices you made along the way, it is contradictive to force these rather unethical 3 choices to the players.let alone the fact that all the previous choices had minimum to zero effect to the endings.so it's not a question of happy endings but the fact that bioware deprived us the right to defend our choices and morality along the game.and today's dlc has changed nothing to that point

[ShadowSoldier89]

iggy4566 wrote...

ShadowSoldier89 wrote...

I have improved my original graph and now present this one

Shadow of the colossus and Ico those two games and their endings are Art Pure art they anlong with Flower and Joruney are to change them that would be messing artist vision.

totally agree, not sure if u were against my chart or not, if u were please notice the scale on the left