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Leviathan (of Dis?) DLC - Leaked dialogue in EC files [SPOILERS]


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#876
ivodadrumma

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sorry i didn't have time to read all of the posts, but i'm just wondering... if the leviathan dlc is actually a true thing they're working on, isn't it a real opportunity for bioware to clear a lot of things up?

just imagine, suppose it starts AFTER the cerberus base attack (i'll explain why so late in the game later)... liara tells you she's got some intel on an interesting find and she tells you about leviathan. you call hackett to tell him to put off the invasion for a while, because you stumbled onto something that might actually be a game changer in the war with the reapers.

you arrive at the facility to finally face leviathan. suppose there's an option to get him to work for you, he explains who created the reapers (sure that would make the new extended cut dialogue with the space-baby-Jesus obsolete, but heck there's already been some dialogues in which you ask for thing you should already know), and what's more important gives you insight in the things that happen in your dreams. that's actually one of the parts of IT, that in my opinion can still be salvaged.

suppose that Harbinger, obviously interested in Shepard, knows he was emotionally devastated seeing the kid die in the ship in Vancouver. he uses the image of the kid to haunt him in his dreams, to break Shep emotionally. ultimately he takes the form of the child in the Crucible scene (i still think there's some truth to the theory that the god-child is actually Harbinger, given the voice he uses to say "so be it" in the refusal ending). that would mean that the attempts at Shepard's indoctrination had actually taken place and at the same time the reason why the DLC should take place after Cerberus base, as the Prothean VI there tells you that the Citadel is the Catalyst (it wouldn't be a plothole, as the VI isn't all-knowing. it says only what it was programmed to say by the Protheans which didn't go as far as Shepard to learn, that the Catalyst is actually space-Jesus).

existence of Leviathan proves that reapers are not actually omnipotent, and are prone to making mistakes. Shep's arrival at the Crucible would mean the Reapers have underestimated him, and now are desperately trying to make him feel sympathetic to their goals. they feel powerless and that's why they show the synthesis as the best option to choose, while actually it goes against everything Shepard has stood for in the series.

but when you choose the refusal option, which in my opinion is the most logical thing to do (unfortunately the ending for it is far from happy), because Shepard as we know him/her would not risk any deals with the Reapers, the Catalyst does no longer have the need to pretend he's not a bad guy, so it speaks in Harbinger's voice. maybe i'm going on a limb here (probably), but it could be an interesting twist.

anyway... either what i'm saying is true or not, i think the Leviathan DLC could be a fantastic opportunity for Bioware to expand the universe, and the game's ending itself. what better way to do it than by dialogues with a Reaper defector? it could explain their creation, their motives, their weak points, hell, even add a 5th ending to the game (why not? it's the end of the trilogy, if they add DLC's to it, we should expect it's going to change the outcome of our efforts. especially if they involve such a huge caliber encounter like a "friendly" Reaper).

could be BS as well, but i hope they're gonna do something interesting about it. what do you think guys and gals?


EDIT: had to add the Prothean VI thingie.

Modifié par ivodadrumma, 28 juin 2012 - 09:52 .


#877
Volc19

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This idea is actually pretty cool. I hope Bioware can implement a rouge Reaper in an interesting way. I mean, in the end he'll just be a handful of war assets and maybe an epilogue slide, but it's still a novel idea.

Also, this turns Control from the best option with almost no downsides into something that may or may not end up turning for the worst. Before, Control really had no downsides other than a dead Shepard and it betraying the narrative. Reapers are under Shepard's guidence with impunity, rebuilding and assisting the Galaxy as bastions of peace, and all is well. A rogue Reaper introduces the chance that the Reapers could eventually slip out of Shepard's control. This balances the endings considerably.

#878
TheShadowWolf911

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that Thorian theory is rather interesting

#879
insomniak9

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It follows on here too...
http://social.biowar...3693/3#12849616

#880
FellishBeast

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I was thinking the Reapers and the Thorian had some fishy similarities and speculated on that idea for awhile a few weeks back. This Leviathan thing only strengthens it >:)

#881
Jonathan Sud

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Kanon777 wrote...

Guys, Bioware has said multiple times that they will NOT make more dlc involving the endings...

Well you know what else they said pre-release? A LOT of things that did not happen. So hush now :)

#882
insomniak9

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The sad thing is, re-introducing the Thorian at this point only strengthens the overhanging notion of indoctrination... and that leads me to think that if we'd all just shut up and left BW to release DLC, it would have all worked out fine.

#883
Fear_me_leader

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 Line about the submersable suggests underwater level perhaps

#884
garrusfan1

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Jonathan Sud wrote...

Kanon777 wrote...

Guys, Bioware has said multiple times that they will NOT make more dlc involving the endings...

Well you know what else they said pre-release? A LOT of things that did not happen. So hush now :)

Agreed and they weren't gonna add a fourth choice either hmmmmmm

#885
insomniak9

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"Underwater" also hints heavily that we will see the origins of the Reapers as cuttlefish though.

#886
OchreJelly

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Is it just me, or do these hints seem vaguely similar to bits of the "rogue reaper cut off from the hive-mind" parts of the fake Mass Shift "leak"?

Not that I'm assigning any validity to that; it was garbage. But there's certain things that are strikingly close that make me wonder...

Modifié par OchreJelly, 28 juin 2012 - 11:38 .


#887
SirLugash

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I haven't followed how you guys brought the Thorian into this.
Wasn't it said in one of the lines that one Reaper went rogue and killed another of it's kind ?
The Thorian is no Reaper, neither are Reapers organic.
And "another of it's kind" ?
Wasn't the Thorian a unique being ?

#888
Versus Omnibus

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Fear_me_leader wrote...

 Line about the submersable suggests underwater level perhaps


An underwater level would be interesting.

#889
insomniak9

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SirLugash wrote...

I haven't followed how you guys brought the Thorian into this.
Wasn't it said in one of the lines that one Reaper went rogue and killed another of it's kind ?
The Thorian is no Reaper, neither are Reapers organic.
And "another of it's kind" ?
Wasn't the Thorian a unique being ?


http://social.biowar...3693/3#12850221

#890
TenkoTAiLS

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I still think its odd that we couldnt keep the Thorian alive. Dunno if it was a bug or a remnant of a story element where you could keep it alive and reason with it, but remember how it had an arrow thing on the nodes life bar, kinda like other examples in the game where you could damage something enough then find a way to end the confrontation without murderising it. I mean if you could change the Rachni Queens mind and reason with it, why not the Thorian too.

#891
Gernbuster

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SirLugash wrote...

I haven't followed how you guys brought the Thorian into this.
Wasn't it said in one of the lines that one Reaper went rogue and killed another of it's kind ?
The Thorian is no Reaper, neither are Reapers organic.
And "another of it's kind" ?
Wasn't the Thorian a unique being ?


Imagine the Thorian is the last one of the ancient race, who created the Reaper. There are some similarities, especially the indoctrination and the husks.

Modifié par Gernbuster, 29 juin 2012 - 12:41 .


#892
PrimeOfValor

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Volc19 wrote...

This idea is actually pretty cool. I hope Bioware can implement a rouge Reaper in an interesting way. I mean, in the end he'll just be a handful of war assets and maybe an epilogue slide, but it's still a novel idea.

Also, this turns Control from the best option with almost no downsides into something that may or may not end up turning for the worst. Before, Control really had no downsides other than a dead Shepard and it betraying the narrative. Reapers are under Shepard's guidence with impunity, rebuilding and assisting the Galaxy as bastions of peace, and all is well. A rogue Reaper introduces the chance that the Reapers could eventually slip out of Shepard's control. This balances the endings considerably.


Dang, I never want to pick control ever again!!

#893
Gernbuster

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bigmass41 wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

This idea is actually pretty cool. I hope Bioware can implement a rouge Reaper in an interesting way. I mean, in the end he'll just be a handful of war assets and maybe an epilogue slide, but it's still a novel idea.

Also, this turns Control from the best option with almost no downsides into something that may or may not end up turning for the worst. Before, Control really had no downsides other than a dead Shepard and it betraying the narrative. Reapers are under Shepard's guidence with impunity, rebuilding and assisting the Galaxy as bastions of peace, and all is well. A rogue Reaper introduces the chance that the Reapers could eventually slip out of Shepard's control. This balances the endings considerably.


Dang, I never want to pick control ever again!!


The epilog shows you only what is going to happen afterwards. Control is for the people, who believe in the good. Nobody guarantees you, that Shepard will be able to control them for ever. After some time the species could still be afraid of the Reapers and try to force him to let the Reapers get destroyed. Shepard could even get the new threat. As long as all organic being is individual, there will always be bad guys like Cerberus. Who may try to Control the Reaper themself or who hate them and try to destroy them. Now Shepard can see live from a different position. Maybe a Reaper live is now as important to him as a human one.
As the calayst says, the Reaper don't want to fight.
Think about that Image IPB

#894
SirLugash

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Gernbuster wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

I haven't followed how you guys brought the Thorian into this.
Wasn't it said in one of the lines that one Reaper went rogue and killed another of it's kind ?
The Thorian is no Reaper, neither are Reapers organic.
And "another of it's kind" ?
Wasn't the Thorian a unique being ?


Imagine the Thorian is the last one of the ancient race, who created the Reaper. There are some similarities, especially the indoctrination and the husks.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense in a way.
But we dealt with the Thorian in ME1 didn't we ?
How would that be in line with what I wrote in my quoted post with the rogue Reaper who killed one of it's kind ?
I don't know how to feel about this.
This rogue Reaper thing would be awesome, but another Thorian kind of thing ?
I don't know.
Or am I misunderstanding something ?

#895
Jadebaby

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TenkoTAiLS wrote...

I still think its odd that we couldnt keep the Thorian alive. Dunno if it was a bug or a remnant of a story element where you could keep it alive and reason with it, but remember how it had an arrow thing on the nodes life bar, kinda like other examples in the game where you could damage something enough then find a way to end the confrontation without murderising it. I mean if you could change the Rachni Queens mind and reason with it, why not the Thorian too.


Those arrows were bugs, but also to show you when Creepers are going to get up and attack you.

#896
Gernbuster

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SirLugash wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

I haven't followed how you guys brought the Thorian into this.
Wasn't it said in one of the lines that one Reaper went rogue and killed another of it's kind ?
The Thorian is no Reaper, neither are Reapers organic.
And "another of it's kind" ?
Wasn't the Thorian a unique being ?


Imagine the Thorian is the last one of the ancient race, who created the Reaper. There are some similarities, especially the indoctrination and the husks.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense in a way.
But we dealt with the Thorian in ME1 didn't we ?
How would that be in line with what I wrote in my quoted post with the rogue Reaper who killed one of it's kind ?
I don't know how to feel about this.
This rogue Reaper thing would be awesome, but another Thorian kind of thing ?
I don't know.
Or am I misunderstanding something ?


I am just guessing as well. I heared about it and the Thorian and put the peaces together myself. Maybe the first Reaper was less under the control of the Catalyst and when he started to rebel, the Catalyst made all following Reaper with less personal freedom and more control. Logicaly it makes no sense for the Catalyst to hunt him down. He is gone and the Catalyst is still a machine, without hate or sense for justice. The Geth let the Quarians escape as well, because it didn't look like they are a threat anymore. Yes we killed the Thorian, but that doesn't mean, that Leviathan can't tell us some interesting facts about the "first" cycle.
I personaly believe, that Bioware got some interpretation for the Catalyst from the movie I-Robot or similar stories. An AI made to protect the humans on earth is doing so by taking over the power. Sounds familiar to me and could have been a theoretical beginning.

#897
SirLugash

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Gernbuster wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

Gernbuster wrote...

SirLugash wrote...

I haven't followed how you guys brought the Thorian into this.
Wasn't it said in one of the lines that one Reaper went rogue and killed another of it's kind ?
The Thorian is no Reaper, neither are Reapers organic.
And "another of it's kind" ?
Wasn't the Thorian a unique being ?


Imagine the Thorian is the last one of the ancient race, who created the Reaper. There are some similarities, especially the indoctrination and the husks.

Thanks for the explanation, makes sense in a way.
But we dealt with the Thorian in ME1 didn't we ?
How would that be in line with what I wrote in my quoted post with the rogue Reaper who killed one of it's kind ?
I don't know how to feel about this.
This rogue Reaper thing would be awesome, but another Thorian kind of thing ?
I don't know.
Or am I misunderstanding something ?


I am just guessing as well. I heared about it and the Thorian and put the peaces together myself. Maybe the first Reaper was less under the control of the Catalyst and when he started to rebel, the Catalyst made all following Reaper with less personal freedom and more control. Logicaly it makes no sense for the Catalyst to hunt him down. He is gone and the Catalyst is still a machine, without hate or sense for justice. The Geth let the Quarians escape as well, because it didn't look like they are a threat anymore. Yes we killed the Thorian, but that doesn't mean, that Leviathan can't tell us some interesting facts about the "first" cycle.
I personaly believe, that Bioware got some interpretation for the Catalyst from the movie I-Robot or similar stories. An AI made to protect the humans on earth is doing so by taking over the power. Sounds familiar to me and could have been a theoretical beginning.

I agree.
But what do you think ?
Is Leviathan an organic being or an actual Reaper (or Proto Reaper) ?

#898
Versus Omnibus

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SirLugash wrote...

I agree.
But what do you think ?
Is Leviathan an organic being or an actual Reaper (or Proto Reaper) ?


It must be a Proto Reaper, and based on the info we have it might be organic with organs for components.

#899
Andy the Black

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insomniak9 wrote...

"Underwater" also hints heavily that we will see the origins of the Reapers as cuttlefish though.


Not cuttlefish, these guys. http://www.mariowiki.com/blooper

#900
Versus Omnibus

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Andy the Black wrote...

insomniak9 wrote...

"Underwater" also hints heavily that we will see the origins of the Reapers as cuttlefish though.


Not cuttlefish, these guys. http://www.mariowiki.com/blooper


So if get high up on mushrooms, we can defeat the Reapers without the Crucible.