249 réponses à ce sujet

[Thor Rand Al]

The one thing I don't get though is how she (Anora) has a claim in the first place. If you want to get technical about it the only reason she's even queen is because she was married to Cailan. Her father was a commoner, no royalty until a certain battle so that would make Anora a commoner too. Besides Alistair, if you played human noble you are royalty so you should have claim to the throne if Alistair doesn't want it before Anora. Even Anora admits to you being noble if you talk to her n you're doin the human noble male part. So technically if Alistair doesn't want to be King then you should be able to say you'll be King without having to marry Anora. Thats my opinion though lol

[Kenshen]

I don't see why one couldn't plot to have Anora killed in prison as everyone else is off to fight the archdemon. It would be the perfect time and you could always blame it on the darkspawn. That way with both Alistair and Anora out of the picture the rest of the Landsmeet would have no choice but to make the PC the ruler and then my rein of terror would begin!

[HarlequinDream]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

The one thing I don't get though is how she (Anora) has a claim in the first place. If you want to get technical about it the only reason she's even queen is because she was married to Cailan. Her father was a commoner, no royalty until a certain battle so that would make Anora a commoner too. Besides Alistair, if you played human noble you are royalty so you should have claim to the throne if Alistair doesn't want it before Anora. Even Anora admits to you being noble if you talk to her n you're doin the human noble male part. So technically if Alistair doesn't want to be King then you should be able to say you'll be King without having to marry Anora. Thats my opinion though lol

Anora is nobility. Her father was promoted to nobility before her birth, if I understand the timeline correctly. As a "human noble," your line has been destroyed, your family called traitors and stripped of their titles. Yes, people recognize you as a Cousland. You are somewhat respected by that, but you are nothing. Unless the king or queen restores your family rights.

[Pimpmyvanagon]

HarlequinDream wrote...

Anora was married to a king.

Which at best would qualify her to serve as regent until an heir came of age - if King Cailan had sired an heir with her. She is not royalty, and still has no claim to take the throne for herself.

[SarEnyaDor]

The OP's logic was flawed, and remains tragically broken. You cannot make the blind see



*wanders off to play the game instead*

[Rishavs]

HarlequinDream wrote...

Pimpmyvanagon wrote...

Suron wrote...

you were only claim THROUGH ALISTAIR and HE DIED....meaning ANORA WAS THE ONLY ONE LEFT WITH A CLAIM.

Do tell, what constitutes Anora's supposedly superior claim to the throne?



Several people have made this statement now and I just don't see a basis for it. Unless I missed something, her claim is entirely based on the fact that she was for a short time married to a now-deceased king of the Theirin bloodline. Which is... pretty much exactly the same as the player's claim, if you followed the original poster's path of marrying Alistair and then letting him take one for the team.

And in any event, it's sidestepping the question of why were we forced to keep Anora alive?, which I found to be the bigger problem in this scenario.

Anora was married to a king. A female noble PC is engaged to a man who is crowned king only if he survives.

Yes, the Landsmeet recognizes him as the next king, but he is not crowned until after the battle, and you do not marry him until after the battle. When he goes into battle, he is the crowned prince, the heir to the throne, but he is not king. Therefore, her marriage trumps your engagement.

Ah but she is in prison for treason. and I am the general of the nation at the very least.
the royal decree still stands even though Alistair is dead.

Also Alistair is not the next king. he is the current king. he commands like the current king and people obey him like one. a future king cannot appoint a regent for a nation. a future king cannot appoint a general for the present.
so he is the current king. only the ceremony is left which is postpones as it wouldn't be possible to hold that ceremony with all the pomp it demands in the current situation.

SarEnyaDor wrote...

The OP's logic was flawed, and remains tragically broken. You cannot make the blind see

*wanders off to play the game instead*

bubye. I can maybe do something for my eyes, but a brain transplant is still too far in the future to help you.

Modifié par Rishavs, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:12 .

[Wrathra]

cynicalsaint1 wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

cynicalsaint1 wrote...


Yeah, I get that, I'm just curious as to why you get the Princess title instead of Queen.

Didn't someone say it's because Anora never gave up her title? I read that somewhere.

Don't you strip her of the title when you depose her.
Isn't that sort of exactly what deposing someone is?

In my game, Eamon told her to give it up and she refused, saying something like "If you think I'd do that, you don't know me at all" or something like that. I don't remember the exact words. *shrug*

[cynicalsaint1]

thanks you. finally a word in my favor.

Hey now, lets not put words into my mouth, I'm only confused as to why you end up with the title Princess instead of Queen. And even then its more of a curiousity than anything.

Its still pretty obvious to me why you're not Queen if Alistair dies.

[mousestalker]

Wizards did it. Just FYI.

[cynicalsaint1]

In my game, Eamon told her to give it up and she refused, saying
something like "If you think I'd do that, you don't know me at all" or
something like that. I don't remember the exact words. *shrug*

Exaclty. Which is why you Depose her. That is what deposing someone is, forcibly removing them from their throne/office/whatever.

Modifié par cynicalsaint1, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:15 .

[Pimpmyvanagon]

mousestalker wrote...

Wizards did it. Just FYI.

This is the most reasonable statement I have seen in this thread.

[Invalidcode]

Do tell, what constitutes Anora's supposedly superior claim to the throne?

She was the one holds the true power and rules the country for the past five years, and the banns knows it. You can't run the country without the banns.

Anora isn't a nice personal, but not a bad ruler,  she is far from perfect but gets the job done.

If Alistair die, she is the natural choice.

[HarlequinDream]

Rishavs wrote...

HarlequinDream wrote...

Pimpmyvanagon wrote...

Suron wrote...

you were only claim THROUGH ALISTAIR and HE DIED....meaning ANORA WAS THE ONLY ONE LEFT WITH A CLAIM.

Do tell, what constitutes Anora's supposedly superior claim to the throne?



Several people have made this statement now and I just don't see a basis for it. Unless I missed something, her claim is entirely based on the fact that she was for a short time married to a now-deceased king of the Theirin bloodline. Which is... pretty much exactly the same as the player's claim, if you followed the original poster's path of marrying Alistair and then letting him take one for the team.

And in any event, it's sidestepping the question of why were we forced to keep Anora alive?, which I found to be the bigger problem in this scenario.

Anora was married to a king. A female noble PC is engaged to a man who is crowned king only if he survives.

Yes, the Landsmeet recognizes him as the next king, but he is not crowned until after the battle, and you do not marry him until after the battle. When he goes into battle, he is the crowned prince, the heir to the throne, but he is not king. Therefore, her marriage trumps your engagement.

Ah but she is in prison for treason. and I am the general of the nation at the very least.
the royal decree still stands even though Alistair is dead.

Also Alistair is not the next king. he is the current king. he commands like the current king and people obey him like one. a future king cannot appoint a regent for a nation. a future king cannot appoint a general for the present.
so he is the current king. only the ceremony is left which is postpones as it wouldn't be possible to hold that ceremony with all the pomp it demands in the current situation.

Alistair. is. not. king.

He is acknowledged as the next king, but he has not legally been given his title. Everyone assumes it's a given, yes, but he is not yet legally king. Just like you are not yet legally married to him at the time of the final battle. You are his fiancee and mistress.

Also, a charge of treason in this case? Probably easily overlooked. All she did was say that she would not renounce her title just because a bastard child of Maric's appeared. She gets angry at you, but she does nothing unbecoming of a lady and goes to the tower quietly when sentenced. She conducts herself well, and I don't see why the nobles wouldn't go "Oh, hey, well, the guy we were going to crown king is dead... but our queen is still alive!"

[Lotion Soronarr]

Rishavs wrote...

I can't even break the goddamned dick.

That sounds painfull. Why would you want to do that?

[Rishavs]

Invalidcode wrote...

Do tell, what constitutes Anora's supposedly superior claim to the throne?

She was the one holds the true power and rules the country for the past five years, and the banns knows it. You can't run the country without the banns.

Anora isn't a nice personal, but not a bad ruler,  she is far from perfect but gets the job done.

If Alistair die, she is the natural choice.

Agreed. but most of the nobles actually support me or else they wouldn't have allowed me to be declared the queen atb the landsmeet over her. also, the fact that i am the biggest hero in the land in 400 years should reinforce my side. As the general I command the main army. I also command the hosts from dwarves, mages etc many of which would still help me after the war.
Add to the fact that Anora was imprisoned at the meet in front of everyone.
Anora would have been a natural choice if there wasn't someone like me challanging her reign. Against my game character, ANora stands no chance at all.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Rishavs wrote...

I can't even break the goddamned dick.

That sounds painfull. Why would you want to do that?

A Freudian slip, I'm afraid.

Modifié par Rishavs, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:21 .

[Valcutio]

Honestly, most people just wanted to be king or queen. Not letting players be able to do that... sucks. I understand it from a lore perspective but maybe the next RPG that comes along will find a way to make players happy and reconcile it with the lore. It's clear that Bioware was unable to do this.

[Tulicus]

If you mange the events the way you tould us, you could become queen.
The poeple of Fereldon and some of the landsmeet support you.
There is nobody who more noble or has more support than you and you have a army:
werwolfs (they are lojal to YOU),
Archers from Bann Alfstanna (she offers you help),
maby Golems from Branka (she is crasy anof to deliver, if you send her souls).

Maby you dont become queen because the Landmeet decides somebody erlth to become king and you can start a civil war...

Modifié par Tulicus, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:28 .

[Pimpmyvanagon]

HarlequinDream wrote...

Alistair. is. not. king.

Which still neglects to address the fact that Anora has no legal claim to the throne. The point is not that the player character's claim is strong (it clearly isn't), but that Anora's is just as weak and yet the nobility will accept her with no qualms. I think it's fair to take that as an indication that they would accept the Warden as well if your character's choices were not being artificially constrained to prevent them from attempting it.

Ferelden is clearly a 'possession is nine-tenths of the law' sort of society. Everything we see in game, from Howe just sort of moving in and exterminating your family to steal your lands, to the conclusion of the Landsmeet where you sway the nobles to your side by beating up the opposition until they yield demonstrates this. If you took the throne, regardless of the legal technicalities, I suspect the Banns would fall in line and rationalize it after the fact... just like they do if Anora takes it.

[Rishavs]

HarlequinDream wrote...
Alistair. is. not. king.

He is acknowledged as the next king, but he has not legally been given his title. Everyone assumes it's a given, yes, but he is not yet legally king. Just like you are not yet legally married to him at the time of the final battle. You are his fiancee and mistress.

Also, a charge of treason in this case? Probably easily overlooked. All she did was say that she would not renounce her title just because a bastard child of Maric's appeared. She gets angry at you, but she does nothing unbecoming of a lady and goes to the tower quietly when sentenced. She conducts herself well, and I don't see why the nobles wouldn't go "Oh, hey, well, the guy we were going to crown king is dead... but our queen is still alive!"

There is no legality in this matter. you are king when you can start giving the orders like one and everyone follows them. the coronation is just a ceremony. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he is the current king. because everyone present in the landsmeet treats him like the current king.

your second point is correct. my poition is rather weak. i am just engaged to him. i concede to your argument.

3rd point; I do get your logic in here. but if the person opposing her ascent to the crown is the savior of all Thedas, the general of all the armies, then can one really oppose me?
ALso, all the strong personalities are dead. all in all the banns will go with the one who is stronger.


Anyway, who released her out of the prison anyway? i control the army which functions as the guards anyway.
There is noone in the country who command carries more weight tahn mine.

Valcutio wrote...

Honestly, most people just wanted to be
king or queen. Not letting players be able to do that... sucks. I
understand it from a lore perspective but maybe the next RPG that comes
along will find a way to make players happy and reconcile it with the
lore. It's clear that Bioware was unable to do this.

Exactly! KOTOR is one of my favorite games mainly because you ended up ruling the entire damned galaxy.
in Baldur's gate you ended up being a god. here i get to be a Knight Commander? I mean, seriously, Bioware?

Modifié par Rishavs, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:33 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

OP, I can confirm to you that Alastair doesn't get officially crowned as King until after the blight has ended and until that point he isn't officially King, thus you have no rites to the throne and even had he been made King beforehand you still wouldn't as you are a Princess-Consort/Queen wannabe. David Gaider has already confirmed this in several other posts when people have queried the 'Princess consort' status.



As he put it himself in one of those posts, if you take England as a prime example, we have the Queen and then her husband PRINCE Phillip!



He is just a consort to her, he has no real power over the throne, the next in line is Prince Charles.



With regards people talking about Anora, probably should remind everyone how Loghain made himself Regent after Cailan's death, that sparked civil war and thus also sparked the landsmeet in which Eamon and PC group presented evidence to point why Loghain should not be in that role.



Anora would be the likeliest candidate to keep her position considering that despite her father's wrong doings, none of the real blame can be laid at her feet and a lot of people from what I remember actually liked her. It was only when her dad got involved in it all that her position was questioned. The fact is as she states herself, she was the real power in the relationship with her and Cailan (just like the OP PC would have been no doubt had she not goaded him into killing himself).



As for the 'Treason' comment, do you actually know what that word means?



It has no relevance to Anora in this situation because Alastair wasn't King and Anora had nothing to do with her husband's death.

[SarEnyaDor]

Rishavs wrote...

bubye. I can maybe do something for my eyes, but a brain transplant is still too far in the future to help you.

Me-ow! 
My, aren't we a bit high strung and catty today. LOL

I'm really sorry that you do not have the ability to understand why you couldn't be queen despite many posters giving you valid reasons and the writers themselves giving you valid reasons. And I'm really sorry that you resort to personal insults. Please forgive me for posting in your thread.

Modifié par SarEnyaDor, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:34 .

[Rishavs]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

Rishavs wrote...

bubye. I can maybe do something for my eyes, but a brain transplant is still too far in the future to help you.

Me-ow! 
My, aren't we a bit high strung and catty today. LOL

I'm really sorry that you do not have the ability to understand why you couldn't be queen despite many posters giving you valid reasons and the writers themselves giving you valid reasons. And I'm really sorry that you resort to personal insults. Please forgive me for posting in your thread.

aww.. poor you. so you can deal in it but not take it a bit? Maybe then you shouldn't have started with the insults yourself.
btw, we are having a discussion over here. its not about you makiing me see the great knowledge or truth about the situation. nor me bending you to my opint of view.  its just a discussion of different interpretations of a certain situation. if you want to leave the threads, its just a click away.

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

As for the 'Treason' comment, do you actually know what that word means?

It
has no relevance to Anora in this situation because Alastair wasn't
King and Anora had nothing to do with her husband's death.

I wonder, do you? Treason is not just tyo a state, but to a regent, a conscripted master and to a monarch.
dissenting against the King is an act of treason. Too many English nobilities have had their heads cut off for that.

And if Alistair wasn't King, how does his command supercedes that of Anora herself who is the queen?

Modifié par Rishavs, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:43 .

[Invalidcode]

Agreed. but most of the nobles actually support me or else they wouldn't have allowed me to be declared the queen atb the landsmeet over her. also, the fact that i am the biggest hero in the land in 400 years should reinforce my side. As the general I command the main army. I also command the hosts from dwarves, mages etc many of which would still help me after the war.

Add to the fact that Anora was imprisoned at the meet in front of everyone.

Anora would have been a natural choice if there wasn't someone like me challanging her reign. Against my game character, ANora stands no chance at all.

Not saying you are completely wrong but: They are supporting you & Alistair against the blight because unless the whole country united as one, we all die. Packing deal, and the reason Alistair was put up front by Eamon is because if you don't the civil war will destroy the country before the Blight. So the main point is to stop the civil war first to have a chance against the blight.







After the blight and if you want the throne without Alistair is another story. You are the hero, sure. Will the bann approve you as the ruler is another thing, Queen or not.

Anora is the proven ruler by the bann. Why risk another civil war/rebel/coup after all the mess when you can just let Anora keep doing what she is doing the past five years.



Without Alistair, there wasn't any real reason for the banns to put the PC(even as a hero) on the throne instead of Anora. Remember Loghain is the one doing all the 'evil' things and mess the country up, Anora didn't. The reason she got lock up was because she won't swear the oath to give up the claim to the throne, I am not sure it is treason in Fereden's law. Execute her or not is Alistair's call, PC had no right to call it at the landsmeet, even the banns are on your side. After Alistair die, no one can really lock her up anymore, the banns would let her stay at the throne like the past five years instead of suddenly let the PC be the ruler because the PC wanted it.



Dwarf, werewolves/Dalish won't dip into human politics. Mages won't help you either, it is a big no no for them to touch politics (unless it is Tevinter). Eamon might even work against you if the PC stage a coup.



But if Anora dies, PC would have a chance.

[Badpie]

I'm baffled as to why this doesn't make sense to some of you.



Anora IS QUEEN. Which means she has a claim to the throne. Only a Therin can challenge that - and they did, which is why they had the landsmeet.



So Alistair was all set to take the throne, but he did NOT take it yet! HE WAS NOT KING!



And you have about as much claim to the throne as a dead cat. You're not a Therin, you weren't married to a Therin. Period.



Even if Anora had been killed. If both Anora and Alistair died, next in line for the throne would be Eamon since his sister was Queen before.



That's the way it works. Tough ******. Stop moaning.

[Pimpmyvanagon]

SarEnyaDor wrote...

I'm really sorry that you do not have the ability to understand why you couldn't be queen despite many posters giving you valid reasons and the writers themselves giving you valid reasons.

Most of those reasons seem to amount to pointing out the player character's lack of a claim. This fails because Anora's claim has all the same faults - she is Princess-Consort, not part of the royal line in her own right, and has exactly the same place in the official succession as your player character would - that is to say, nonexistent.

The fact that she was made queen anyway is a strong arguement that your player character could have been as well. Only, not, because the dialogue options weren't there to try.

And again there's the nagging question of why is Anora still alive?

SarEnyaDor wrote...

And I'm really sorry that you resort to personal insults.

Agreed that personal attacks are bad form, and it would be nice if folks could refrain from doing so.

Modifié par Pimpmyvanagon, 14 décembre 2009 - 09:46 .