249 réponses à ce sujet

[Curlain]

Just place Alistair on the throne, don't marry him, but take a possition as Chancellor. Then isolate Alistair, form a group of loyal sycophants, and have rumours circulate throught Ferelden about how Alistair isn't taxing nobles for reconsturction but for his own private wealth and pleasure, and send similar rumours to the peasant classes, together with rumours of assinations of nobles that can be traced to him (of course you will be doing these murders to eliminate your rivals and court enemies, but it will look like it's Alistair ordering it). Create rumours to each major house that Alistair in reality favours teh rival house, then over a year or so, as you continue to isolate him, have the image of him as a mad, power-hungry and debauched ruler, while you paint yourself as the loyal and faithful subject but who increasingly cannot condone Alistair's actions.

Then when all is ripe, unite everyone against the hated Alistair, kill him an assume the throne, sorted.

(this of course would be post game, but you can still imagine you did something like this if you want )

Modifié par Curlain, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:01 .

[mrtauntaun]

The plan was fullproof. 

Here's your problem.  This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Modifié par mrtauntaun, 15 décembre 2009 - 01:58 .

[Tirigon]

Curlain wrote...

Just place Alistair on the throne, don't marry him, but take a possition as Chancellor. Then isolate Alistair, form a group of loyal sycophants, and have rumours circulate throught Ferelden about how Alistair isn't taxing nobles for reconsturction but for his own private wealth and pleasure, and send similar rumours to the peasant classes, together with rumours of assinations of nobles that can be traced to him (of course you will be doing these murders to eliminate your rivals and court enemies, but it will look like it's Alistair ordering it). Create rumours to each major house that Alistair in reality favours teh rival house, then over a year or so, as you continue to isolate him, have the image of him as a mad, power-mad and debauched ruler, while you paint yourself as the loyal and faithful subject but who increasingly cannot condone Alistair's actions.

Then when all is ripe, unite everyone against the hated Alistair, kill him an assume the throne, sorted.

(this of course would be post game, but you can still imagine you did something like this if you want )

Sounds nice, but it´s not the way my mage does things. She´s more one of the "Shut up and obey now or I´ll blow you up" sort. Intriguing is something only traitors like Anora or Loghain do, its not right for a hero. After all, I want to rule cause I want to change Ferelden for good, not because I´m a Loghain-like pig.

[Emryc]

You can always write a fanfic.

[Xandurpein]

Tirigon wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Invalidcode wrote...

They have to & will help you against the Blight, but not a civil war against Eamon.

Exactly.

The army you have gathered is only there to fight the Blight. Once the Blight is defeated, the Dwarves are headed back underground to fight in the Deep Roads, and the Dalish are returning to the forest. They are your allies, not your personal army. The same is true of the human soldiers. They serve their individual banns and Arls, and the only ones with any personal loyalty to you after everything is said in done is possibly Highever, since Fergus is named Teyrn. The PC would need more than the support of Highever however, to rule all of Ferelden.

The PC isn't going to have any support in waging a civil war for the crown following the Blight. Any attempt at seizing the crown by force would just expose the PC to the same problems Loghain faced: highly independent freeholders and banns that resented their traditional rights being trampled on, and who weren't too keen on kneeling to a tyrant. The monarchy in Ferelden is not an absolute one. It rules only with the consent of the freeholders.

They dont HAVE to help you, but ... The Dalish would use every chance to become free. If you promise them freedom and their own land, many of them would help for sure. Same goes for the magicians - at least for the libertarians and the bloodmages, which are the most powerful anyways. The dwarves aren´t sure, but they might help too, at least if you make sure you have a strong bound to their king and didnt go like "I dont care for you as long as you give me warriors". Dunno about Harrowmont, but Bhelen gives the impression that he would fight the Fereldans if you give him a good reason, such as gold or power.
And then, the  Fereldans themselfes...  I guess you could count on a lot of help by the people. After all, you saved them from the Archdemon, you saved their life and all, and you have proven yourself a powerful and (at least the way I played) kind and trustworthy leader. Compare that with Anora. She is a power-hungry woman whose father is an executed traitor, she sided with this traitor, though he had killed her own husband, King Caillan, and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Fereldans, and she betrays even you, though you rescued her from certain death.
Honestly, who would you rather want to be your King? A hero who cares for the people or a greedy **** who cares for nothing but her own power?

I think your political ideas are a bit... innocent to be honest. The funny thing is that I believe you pretty much painted yourself in the same corner as Loghain there and don't even seem to realize it, unless everything was written in irony ofc.
What did Loghain do? Loghain based his grab for power on his (in his own mind) great leadership and his record as a great war hero - like yourself. Loghain "knew" he was best for Ferelden and ofc everybody ought to realize it and incidentally I'll happily kill the idiots who think otherwise - like you say you will.
Anora is out becuase she sided with a traitor, responsible for thousands of deaths, soo.. you'll rebell against her (treason) and start a civil war (be responsible for thousands of deths), but everybody will love you for it ofc.
You'll happily give away part of your Kingdom to the Dalish elves, and no one will be unhappy that you took their land to do it. You'll tear down the chantry (a cherished institution by many devout people, wether you like it or not) and release a lot mages uncontrolled (many of whom think on the whole that the circle is a necessary evil) and everybody will cheer because you are a nice person.
You'll throw the country into chaos and confusion, but no problem. You care for the people, unlike those others who are just selfish bastards, so they'll understand, because you saved Ferelden from the Orlesians - no wait that was Loghain, it was the Blight wasn't it.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:17 .

[Korva]

Tirigon wrote...

Honestly, who would you rather want to be your King? A hero who cares for the people or a greedy **** who cares for nothing but her own power?

If your PC is willing to continue civil war to seize power, why would he be any better than Anora or Loghain? He would be as bad or worse.

And why do people keep saying "my armies" even when the devs have clearly stated that there is no such thing? The allied armies come together to defeat the Blight, that is all. They have no obligation to get butchered for some power-grabbing tyrant. And if you ****** off any neighbour countries or the Chantry, you stand no chance. Ferelden is decimated and devastated. The epilogues rather gloss over how much damage must have been done by Blight and civil war.

The only case one could make for having one's own army are the werewolves. What are werewolves? Rabid cursed monsters who are hated by the Fereldans more than just about anything else (except the Orlesians). Yeah, letting them loose on one's own people surely would create unity, but against the tyrant-PC, not under him.

@Xandurpain: Well said.

Modifié par Korva, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:37 .

[Suron]

Evainelithe wrote...

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I haven't read all eight pages yet. But why is Anora Queen while you get to be Princess-consort after marrying the King. Anora is a Teyrn's daughter yet by most considered a commoner  where you are a Teyrn's daughter of an old noble line. Yet she is queen after marrying the king and you're princess-consort? How does that work exactly?

because she has claim already through marriage to Cailan.  you DO NOT.  you have no claim.  noble =/= potential claim unless you MARRY into it.  Eamon only has claim (as does Teeeeeeaaaagan) through family (being related to Cailan) but even they have a weak claim.  As a Cousland you have none (and even if you DID it's much less then Eamon/Teeeeeeeeeeeeaaaagan)

so even though Anora is only a Teryn's daughter by birth..she is QUEEN through marriage already....thus she has more claim then all save Alistair.  And if Alistair dies in the last battle it still leaves you with NO CLAIM (which somehow the OP seems idiotically unaware of) because you NEVER MARRIED Alistair.

[Korva]

I think -- and please correct me if I remember wrong -- that in some other thread, David (?) said that Anora's and Cailan's marriage was a special case. I think it was because their parents were so close. My guess is that besides that, maybe Maric and Loghain saw Cailan would "need" a wife who was more of an equal than a normal consort, since he was a bit of a heads-in-the-clouds kind of guy, and not not really interested in nor good at the actual ruling and administrating bits.

(I hope these forums will get a better search function soon, can't for the life of me remember where this was discussed before.)

Modifié par Korva, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:58 .

[Apophis2412]

Evainelithe wrote...

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I haven't read all eight pages yet. But why is Anora Queen while you get to be Princess-consort after marrying the King. Anora is a Teyrn's daughter yet by most considered a commoner  where you are a Teyrn's daughter of an old noble line. Yet she is queen after marrying the king and you're princess-consort? How does that work exactly?

What do titles matter? It's what you do that matters.

[Korva]

If the PC marrying Alistair is a love match, then I think it would make sense if she was made queen too instead of "merely" princess-consort especially if he is also "unhardened". If it's a marriage of convenience, if you ****** him off by sparing Loghain, or in the case of mPC/Anora, though, I think it makes sense that the PC is "merely" a consort.

[th3warr1or]

Rishavs wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Alistair was never crowned king. That was going to happen after the battle. (And does happen in the epilogue, if he survives.) And you didn't marry him yet. Being engaged to a guy who might have been king does not put you in line for the throne.

Alistair was king. The ceremony would have been held later, but all heralded Alistair as the king in the Landsmeet. He lead all the armies. So he was King.
There was no challanger to the throne. Anora was in prison for treason. Eamon was dead. Alistair was dead. Cailen was dead.
I made sure that every body who could be a threat was removed. I had the same claim to the throne that Anora tried to use after Cailin's death. The throne was mine.

Umm, how is Eamon dead?

[Tirigon]

Korva wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Honestly, who would you rather want to be your King? A hero who cares for the people or a greedy **** who cares for nothing but her own power?

If your PC is willing to continue civil war to seize power, why would he be any better than Anora or Loghain? He would be as bad or worse.

And why do people keep saying "my armies" even when the devs have clearly stated that there is no such thing? The allied armies come together to defeat the Blight, that is all. They have no obligation to get butchered for some power-grabbing tyrant. And if you ****** off any neighbour countries or the Chantry, you stand no chance. Ferelden is decimated and devastated. The epilogues rather gloss over how much damage must have been done by Blight and civil war.

The only case one could make for having one's own army are the werewolves. What are werewolves? Rabid cursed monsters who are hated by the Fereldans more than just about anything else (except the Orlesians). Yeah, letting them loose on one's own people surely would create unity, but against the tyrant-PC, not under him.

@Xandurpain: Well said.

1. A civil war isnt necessarily bad. Its a stupid comparison, but a civil war against Hitler or Stalin would have been good for everybody, for example.

2. It doesnt matter if you are as bad as them, why should you not have the possibility to win the game as the cruel Emperor? In Jade Empire, for example, you could kill Li and take his place as divine Emperor.

3. If you want to be a good ruler, you wont let you stop by a few nobles who disagree. A peaceful coronation would be best, but it´s better if you win the war and, then, lead Ferelden to a Golden Age (like Aragorn did in LotR, for example) than if you don´t rule at all.

4. It might not be exactly your armies, but (telling the 3rd time now) Libertarians or elves could join you for their own interests, the Golems ARE of course yours, since you have their control rods and so forth.

5. To the werewolves: Ok, you couldnt ally with them officially. But you dont need to. You can just make a secret deal with them, like: You protect them, and in return they do only hunt and kill your enemies, rather than everyone.
Good for them, cause they survive, and good for you, cause you have someone to do the dirty work, who cant be tracked to you easily.

6. If all else fails, you could just visit Antiva with Zevran, take a holiday, meet the Crows and make an arrangement so that your noble opponents have had tragic accidents once you come back.

[andysdead]

Tirigon wrote...
6. If all else fails, you could just visit Antiva with Zevran, take a holiday, meet the Crows and make an arrangement so that your noble opponents have had tragic accidents once you come back.

slight problem with that...  if the Crows knew where Zevran was, they'd kill him.

[Niten Ryu]

Good plan, too bad there were no option in-game for the correct resolution. I guess developers wanted to limit the options to Alistair or the Queen for the possible sequel. Saves money in VO costs

[Tirigon]

andysdead wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
6. If all else fails, you could just visit Antiva with Zevran, take a holiday, meet the Crows and make an arrangement so that your noble opponents have had tragic accidents once you come back.

slight problem with that...  if the Crows knew where Zevran was, they'd kill him.

Ok, Zev has to stay at home and prepare the bed while I talk to the crows:happy:
And they will listen. If you make the quests for Ignacio (or sth like that; the "merchant" in Denerim) he says the  crows look forward to meet and maybe work witth you.

[Dyfrin Deathseeker]

mrtauntaun wrote...

The plan was fullproof. 

Here's your problem.  This word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

ROFL the whole thread I took as a serious debate until here.

[Tirigon]

Xandurpein wrote...

What did Loghain do? Loghain based his grab for power on his (in his own mind) great leadership and his record as a great war hero - like yourself.

Do you know the saying: Two opposed points of view dont make the truth be in the middle; Sometimes, one is just entirely false. 
That´s the case here. We might think the same, but in case of the PC´s deeds its true, while in case of Loghain its just false. Besides, I wouldnt mind if he had just declared himself King, imprisoned Caillan and won the battle of Ostagar; he would have been the better Leader in these times. My problem with him is that he sacrificed his own people, sold the elves from the Alienage as slaves, had his enemies tortured and was planning to kill Anora.
(Yes, I would have had her executed, if it was possible, but I do still hate him for wanting to kill his own daughter because he thought it might help him in his struggle for power; even more so considering that she was on his side.)
In my opinion, it´s possible that you have to wage war or get rid of your enemies, if you are a Leader, but you must NEVER use torture or sacrifice innocent people, no matter to what ends. If you do that, all your right for leadership (if you have one at all) is lost.

Loghain "knew" he was best for Ferelden and ofc everybody ought to realize it and incidentally I'll happily kill the idiots who think otherwise - like you say you will.
Anora is out becuase she sided with a traitor, responsible for thousands of deaths, soo.. you'll rebell against her (treason) and start a civil war (be responsible for thousands of deths), but everybody will love you for it ofc.

You are assuming the people of Ferelden think rationally. I doubt that. The average human isnt like "He killed my brother; If I kill him I´m no better!" ; the average human thinks like "He killed my brother; Lets kill him, rape his wife, enslave his children, burn his house and steal his money!!!" And therefore, it is easy to seduce the people to follow you. You just have to make sure the people believe you are the good guy who cares for them, and that´s easy enough, even more as you HAVE safed them from certain death - you cant argue that it wasnt YOU who killed the archdemon.

Then, one last thought (the only one that cant be transferred on reality): I was playing an AW / BM who was practically invulnerable, except against some bosses. If it would really be necessary, I could kill the entire Fereldan army all by myself. And THAT´S what annoys me. I could easily kill the entire Landsmeet, but I still have to accept Anora as queen, though I think she´s a worse ruler than the Archdemon himself........
 

[Herr Uhl]

Tirigon wrote...
You are assuming the people of Ferelden think rationally. I doubt that. The average human isnt like "He killed my brother; If I kill him I´m no better!" ; the average human thinks like "He killed my brother; Lets kill him, rape his wife, enslave his children, burn his house and steal his money!!!" And therefore, it is easy to seduce the people to follow you. You just have to make sure the people believe you are the good guy who cares for them, and that´s easy enough, even more as you HAVE safed them from certain death - you cant argue that it wasnt YOU who killed the archdemon.

You really have a negative outlook on human nature, don't you? The thoughts might pass your mind, but very very few would go to such extremes.There is a huge difference between thinking something and then doing it, unless you're mentally ill.

[Tirigon]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
You are assuming the people of Ferelden think rationally. I doubt that. The average human isnt like "He killed my brother; If I kill him I´m no better!" ; the average human thinks like "He killed my brother; Lets kill him, rape his wife, enslave his children, burn his house and steal his money!!!" And therefore, it is easy to seduce the people to follow you. You just have to make sure the people believe you are the good guy who cares for them, and that´s easy enough, even more as you HAVE safed them from certain death - you cant argue that it wasnt YOU who killed the archdemon.

You really have a negative outlook on human nature, don't you? The thoughts might pass your mind, but very very few would go to such extremes.There is a huge difference between thinking something and then doing it, unless you're mentally ill.

Sure, but what do you think why there is so much crime and war in the (real) world? What I have described is nothing else but what happens in a "classical" vendetta. It´s not like I have imagined it without any reason. I have written it cos its what happens far too often.
Same goes for my statement that the masses are easy to seduce. After all, even Hitler could count on lots of people who adored him and followed him, and he had no propaganda but the extinction of jews, communists, homosexuals, mentally ill people and other people he regarded as unworth to live.

[Hulk Hsieh]

Bioware should really consider how many options they give to players.

With decent numbers of options, people complain that not all possible options are covered.



Maybe Bioware should pull an ME in DA2 so that player will know from the beginning that they don't have many options and enjoy the game more.

[Korva]

@Tirigon: In all honesty, the more you type, the more I fail to see any reason why your character would in fact NOT be as bad or worse as Loghain or Anora.