193 réponses à ce sujet

[GGW KillerTiger]

With how bad these balance changes seem to be all the time I feel you should do what it is you obviously intend and just next week show the balance changes as this:

Anything player controlled nerfed by 99%
Anything game controlled buffed by 20000000000%

Just get it over with already .....

[Edalborez]

BobWalt wrote...

We neede longer tan 11.2 seconds IN THE REAL WORLD to cap objectives.  The current cloak is not long enough based on my experience with the new times - especially if the zone around the objecitve is hot.

A) You can afford a couple seconds out of cloak. Many 1234's are near cover.
If the zone is -that- hot, you have missiles.

[Major Durza]

I approve of the TC changes, perhaps people will expand and try new classes without endless Infiltrators saturating all known lobbies.

[Gamemako]

Now time will tell whether 99% of infils go with damage over duration anyway, making the team suffer instead of the infiltrator.

[BobWalt]

Edalborez wrote...

BobWalt wrote...

We neede longer tan 11.2 seconds IN THE REAL WORLD to cap objectives.  The current cloak is not long enough based on my experience with the new times - especially if the zone around the objecitve is hot.

A) You can afford a couple seconds out of cloak. Many 1234's are near cover.
If the zone is -that- hot, you have missiles.

There are some zones that do not have much cover and have buildings with an LOS (line of sight) to the target (you) rendering missle not an option.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

There are some zones that do not have much cover and have buildings with an LOS (line of sight) to the target (you) rendering missle not an option.

It is a squad game.

[Feauce]

Edalborez wrote...

BobWalt wrote...

We neede longer tan 11.2 seconds IN THE REAL WORLD to cap objectives.  The current cloak is not long enough based on my experience with the new times - especially if the zone around the objecitve is hot.

A) You can afford a couple seconds out of cloak. Many 1234's are near cover.
If the zone is -that- hot, you have missiles.

You're forgetting one very important thing... Instant respawn renders missiles 100% pointless. Sure, you can insta-kill two Banshees and three Brutes that want to turn you into a turian pot pie, but what's the purpose in it when three seconds later they all walk back around the same corner?

[BobWalt]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

There are some zones that do not have much cover and have buildings with an LOS (line of sight) to the target (you) rendering missle not an option.

It is a squad game.

While that is true there are many times when your squard mates are unable to keep the enemies occupied so you can deal with an objective. An infiltrator needs to be able to infiltrate.

Modifié par BobWalt, 27 juin 2012 - 10:44 .

[Balcathor]

Arkley wrote...

Should have nerfed the rank 4 damage increase option, not the base damage increase.

That said, Tactical Cloak now presents Infiltrators an interesting choice; with the base duration no longer sufficient to cap an objective,  will you take duration, to be an effective medic and objective-completer? Or will you take the extra damage?

I'm lying, of course. They'll continue to take the extra damage and all the changes have done is create an excuse for Infiltrators to refuse to do objectives and continue point-whoring. "My cloak doesn't last long enough to do objectives any more!"

Also, the Crusader's power still nowhere near justifies its weight. It's not a bad gun, it's just way too heavy, even still. It needs to weigh as much as, or less than, the GPS/Graal/Reager.

Bingo.  Just before this announcement whilde playing this past weekend, I was in tons of games with Inflitrators - generally one but some games with two or more.

With the exception of  the occasional one, none of the Infiltrators were capping objectives.  Very few.  They would rather run around cloaked with their bad ass sniper rifles and try to be the high score.

So, having a power that makes them ideal for getting those back objectives, explain to me why I am racing through the hordes to cap something that they damn well should be doing.  Because INFILTRATOR as "I" in it, no E and M to spell 'Team'.  

Sorry, but capping a objective with three infiltrators in some remote corner away from me sniping to try to be the high score and leaving me flapping in the breeze has got me somewhat soured about the way many play the class.

Modifié par Balcathor, 27 juin 2012 - 08:57 .

[joker_jack]

This nerf has brought to light the problems with most fps mp. The division between by the so called "elite" and everyone else. This is never about balance. Elitist response in the last couple days has been from if your not good enough don't don't play, to the extreme trollish. Nerfs like this don't punish people who play the game enough but the casual player most and those who don't visit the forums. I've been vocal on this nerf because now that idiots got their nerf, it won't end there. I've seen calls for nerfs on the arc grenade, grenade gear and just about everything else. You know you say if you can't play the game don't play it. Well to our nerfer's out there, you don't think anyone else that is not up to your standard why don't you stop playing the game altogether.
;;

[Jebel Krong]

Well infiltrated isn't completely ruined from a damage output perspective, at least the way i specced, but the changes sure hurt the flexibility and utility of the class. all the constant whining then change cycles as well as the simple inability to level preferred weapons mean i probably won't be playing much longer. The "community" has ruined this mp experience - it's just not fun anymore. Those people should have been told to have a cup of shut the **** up, not be pandered to.

First 360 cheater just now, too rocket glitch but looked like he was holding krysae but killing mobs in one shot...

[BobWalt]

joker_jack wrote...

This nerf has brought to light the problems with most fps mp. The division between by the so called "elite" and everyone else. This is never about balance. Elitist response in the last couple days has been from if your not good enough don't don't play, to the extreme trollish. Nerfs like this don't punish people who play the game enough but the casual player most and those who don't visit the forums. I've been vocal on this nerf because now that idiots got their nerf, it won't end there. I've seen calls for nerfs on the arc grenade, grenade gear and just about everything else. You know you say if you can't play the game don't play it. Well to our nerfer's out there, you don't think anyone else that is not up to your standard why don't you stop playing the game altogether.
;;

In general I think Bioware has a pretty good handle on balance.   In addition they don't just go by what they read in the forum from either side they research what happens in game and back it up with  hard statistics.  I really doubt they will nerf too much. About the only balance "mistake" if you will is the weakness of the SMG.

[Clayless]

It's begining to get a bit anti-motivational now.

I can no longer get a team together and pick U/U/G because the Geth are just FAR too powerful, and now it's gonna be harder to cap objectives with the Infiltrator.

[demonsfist]

infiltrator, i am finally posting for the first time. i am not going to tell you how great i am or watch me do a gold match alone and get all the objectives alone using no consumables. im simply a gamer who likes to game. this is my second MP game the other being Space Marines. Space Marines has had 3 "balance changes" in a year and a half after its release. THREE! this game im learning gets changed every other week. and unless you go into these forums bioware can change the game without you even knowing. so, bioware did you test the game before its release? do you test a new weapon before its release? i like the infiltrator too. still do, but liked it better a few days ago. if you take dam over dur the stats say you have 5+ seconds to be in TC. well bioware i timed it with a stopwatch. its 4 seconds. if you take dur over dam you get 11+ seconds, accurate. change it all back, please... 33.6% are using infiltrators. WOW, we made a class people really like,HEY LETS RUIN IT!!! stop listening to whiners!!

Modifié par demonsfist, 28 juin 2012 - 11:19 .

[Cundu_Ertur]

Generally I understand the need for the fix. And it took me a day or two to understand the why of some of it, especially the duration nerf, which initially seemed extreme. However, I have gotten to where I can accept it mostly -- but I would suggest some tweaks to the implementation.

What I suggest (changes in bold), then the justification after.

Tactical Cloak Power
- Base duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds
- Rank 3 duration bonus decreased from +30% to +25%
- Evolution 1 duration bonus increased from 50% to 200%
- Evolution 2 damage bonus decreased from 40% to 30%
- Evolution 6 sniper rifle damage bonus decreased from 40% to 25%

Why the changes? Rank 3 change is to get rid of the .2 seconds. Really, that's it. Also, 25% just feels like a nice round number. Admittedly, it's kinda dumb, but it feels right. Point two seconds. Phooey.

The evolution 1 and 2 changes are because the whole point of this adjustment is to get infiltrators to choose -- damage or support. That's a good thing. However, putting the damage nerf at the very beginning increased the cost of choosing duration. Before the change if someone took duration (which no-one did) they lost 4/9 of their damage bonus, or less than half. As the TC adjustment stands now, to take duration means losing exactly half of the damage bonus. And since the rank 6 sniper adjustment makes the whole bonus lower, it means giving up half of something that is less in the first place. It's a quadruple whammy, seeing as how even with the +150% the duration is only about .8 seconds longer than the duration WITHOUT the bonus was before.

Here's how it's a four-way nerf now: 1. -10% to damage (hits all infiltrators), 2. Nerf to duration (even after taking the duration bonus it's 3.2 seconds shorter than before, affects all infiltrators), 3. Sacrifice half (40/80) of the remaining damage bonus to have the time bonus (was 40/90 or less than half before, affects only infiltrators who want to support the team), 4. Sniper weapon bonus is lower (only affects sniping infiltrators, run'n'gunners not so much).

Same reason for boosting the duration bonus at Evolution 1 (rank 4 duration) to +200. That results in a 13.2 (or a nice, round, lucky 13 if you whack the .2 off it which you should) -- still less than the 14.4 it was before the change, but still good enough to capture an objective and move away.
These two changes would keep people from getting hit four ways for taking the duration option, and provide a bit more incentive for taking the duration boost even though it would still result in a substantially lower damage bonus.

Also, I would boost all sniper rifle damage (EXCEPT KRYSAE!!!) by 10%. Not much, if any, more than that, because then it starts to undo the damage bonus adjustments just made. Sniper rifles have unusually low damage values for the weight in general (again, not counting the Krysae) because of the old 40% sniper bonus. That's gone now, so the sniper rilfes should get a boost so maybe other classes could find more use for them.

Modifié par Cundu_Ertur, 29 juin 2012 - 12:02 .

[Cundu_Ertur]

I posted this somewhere else, since I was coming up with it as I was typing, but would like to toss it in here, too.
Here's a thought, I've been pushing to move the -10 nerf to rank 4, but what if we don't do that. Base bonus stays 40%, but at rank 4 the damage bonus is 20% instead of 40%. Put the other 20% in the rank 5 melee damage slot that hardly anyone ever takes. Now there's 4 options: 80% damage bonus, but shorter duration and longer cooldown; longer duration (still think it should be +200% for duration), 60% damage bonus but longer cooldown; short cooldown, short duration, 60% damage bonus; or for maximum utility long duration, short cooldown, but 40% damage. NOW there's viable variations instead of one optimal build.

[AmicusHumaniGeneris]

Balcathor wrote...

Arkley wrote...

Should have nerfed the rank 4 damage increase option, not the base damage increase.

That said, Tactical Cloak now presents Infiltrators an interesting choice; with the base duration no longer sufficient to cap an objective,  will you take duration, to be an effective medic and objective-completer? Or will you take the extra damage?

I'm lying, of course. They'll continue to take the extra damage and all the changes have done is create an excuse for Infiltrators to refuse to do objectives and continue point-whoring. "My cloak doesn't last long enough to do objectives any more!"

Also, the Crusader's power still nowhere near justifies its weight. It's not a bad gun, it's just way too heavy, even still. It needs to weigh as much as, or less than, the GPS/Graal/Reager.

Bingo.  Just before this announcement whilde playing this past weekend, I was in tons of games with Inflitrators - generally one but some games with two or more.

With the exception of  the occasional one, none of the Infiltrators were capping objectives.  Very few.  They would rather run around cloaked with their bad ass sniper rifles and try to be the high score.

So, having a power that makes them ideal for getting those back objectives, explain to me why I am racing through the hordes to cap something that they damn well should be doing.  Because INFILTRATOR as "I" in it, no E and M to spell 'Team'.  

Sorry, but capping a objective with three infiltrators in some remote corner away from me sniping to try to be the high score and leaving me flapping in the breeze has got me somewhat soured about the way many play the class.

And the really fun thing is that the kind of infiltrators you describe did not get nerfed very badly, compared to those that does want to help the team.<_<

[DarkSpooky]

joker_jack wrote...

This nerf has brought to light the problems with most fps mp. The division between by the so called "elite" and everyone else. This is never about balance. Elitist response in the last couple days has been from if your not good enough don't don't play, to the extreme trollish. Nerfs like this don't punish people who play the game enough but the casual player most and those who don't visit the forums. I've been vocal on this nerf because now that idiots got their nerf, it won't end there. I've seen calls for nerfs on the arc grenade, grenade gear and just about everything else. You know you say if you can't play the game don't play it. Well to our nerfer's out there, you don't think anyone else that is not up to your standard why don't you stop playing the game altogether.
;;

Quoted for truth.

Truthfully I just got f******** fed up today with everything, seemingly limitless geth that spawn everywhere, crusader sucks beyond words, TC becoming as worthless as HM now. Not to mention my utter lack of luck with UR items, random my ass. Might as well stick with SP at this rate.

Modifié par DarkSpooky, 29 juin 2012 - 06:39 .

[Balcathor]

I don't buy the argument that Bioware is listening to whiners. There has been many changes made over the last few months in which nobody on the forums has asking for this or that change to a weapon or encumbrance.

Bioware is most likely looking at the hard data they collect from each match you play (as long as you have reporting enabled, which you do if you are participating in weekend challenges and getting packs as rewards). From that data, they are observing trends, anomalies, other data points, yada yada yada from which they make decisions on their balance changes.