NucularPikinic wrote...
There is more choice now, great. Hey, don't expect to see infiltrators cutting a swath of destruction as much anymore while also completing those darn NODE objectives.
Everyone contribute. NOW!
IIIMystIII wrote...
You can try the "I don't care about score" bit all you want but again, no one is going to buy it.
All Biotics can self detonate if they take ammo. Ammo drops much more now that CC's don't spam.InfamousResult wrote...
Cundu_Ertur wrote...
The choice is between +40% damage, or being a team player. Name one other class that has to make that choice. ONE. Oh, you can't 'cause there isn't one.
Geth Engineer's Turret.
Asari Justicar's Biotic Sphere.
Any Biotic that can't self-detonate when choosing the Detonation ranks in their skill trees.
IIIMystIII wrote...
InfamousResult wrote...
Your argument was "I assume other players only cared about score".
But no, I am sure that has WAY more credibility to it than all the actual facts and statistics that have been brought up and debated over, and the accumulative data on Bioware's side that lead them to look into, and inevitably decide, that those same people you're bashing on ( me, included ) were, in fact, right. You are obviously raising some very compelling points as to why Tactical Cloak wasn't overpowered. That point being, again, because you "assume other players only cared about score".
Mm.
Very compelling.
And I reiterate: The nerf did exactly what it was intended to do. It stopped Infiltrators from being the "end-all, be-all" class. You can either choose to spec for duration and handle objectives and revives more easily, or spec for damage so you can kill enemies faster. This, of course, still allows you a longer amount of time than ANY other class to revive teammates / cap objectives relatively unharmed, even without speccing for duration, and you have just as much opportunity to do so as anybody else. Infiltrators have never been a requirement for a succesful Gold run.
But if you want to refuse to revive and capture objectives and actually make the game harder, not just for your team, but for yourself, be my guest. We will see how you feel about that in a week of reduced credit intake, when your objective timer runs out, or you're left alone during gold waves and are overwhelmed.
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you can solo Gold all by yourself, and you never needed a team to begin with! Major pats on the back for you, if that's right.
Whatever you got to tell yourself, buddy. You are not fooling anyone though.
No one was like "Damn the ability of Infiltrators to revive me in dangerous situations is so OP!" or "Nerf the ability for Infiltrators to capture things easier. It is making things too convenient for me!". The only thing people were sore about was the Infiltrator's ability to get a higher score then they could. Guess what? That hasn't changed in any significant way. The only time I even notice the damage nerf is killing bigger enemies but again, that is more of a teamwork thing. I can still cloak and bail from a dangerous enemy far easier then anyone else so even that is more of a problem for other classes then it is for me.
You can call people that just happen to agree with you "the best" or call anecdotes that go along with your way of thinking as "facts" all you want but what confuses me is that for someone that has a pretty large axe to grind with Infiltrators you are actually championing this nerf. You can try the "I don't care about score" bit all you want but again, no one is going to buy it. People don't cry for nerfs because they dislike other classes supporting them. You and every other nerf-cryer didn't like the ability for us to get higher scores then you. Well we still can. All that really changed was our ability to help our team.
If you cannot comprehend why that is a pretty big deal in a co-op game then I really don't know what to tell you.
Cundu_Ertur wrote...
All Biotics can self detonate if they take ammo. Ammo drops much more now that CC's don't spam.
The turret and sphere choices don't amount to the same number value (turret base damage is, what, 150?), and both powers actually allow for that choice more than once. You can split the difference two different ways in each progression and still help the team while also getting an additional buff to damage. With TC it's all or nothing. And TC is no benefit to the team at all at the base level, whereas both turret and sphere have some use for the team. But fine, point made. Two kits versus a whole class of six kits. You still can't name a whole class.
And those shotgun infiltrators? The infiltrators who never bothered with reviving people or doing objectives? Infiltrators rocking a Krysae? This didn't affect them one bit. Hell, they'll never even notice there was a change.
Slick one, guys. Way to go.
InfamousResult wrote...
They looked at more than just the 33% statistic, although that WAS still a pretty big indicator that something was wrong.
And "listening to the community" doesn't necessarily mean "doing what the community WANTS". It means they're listening to reasonable arguments for/against choices. If the community draws Bioware's attention to an obviously broken game mechanic, or overpowered class, and Bioware investigates it because the community pointed it out.. NOT just because somebody said "please nerf".. That's still listening to the community. The majority can be wrong.
CHAw wrote...
whateverman7 wrote...
this is what i dont understand about people being happy they changed infiltrators: why are you happy that bw is trying to dictate what characters we, the players, should play?....i dont use infilitrator like that, but so what if people picked infilitrator 33% of the time in gold matches? that's their choice....you, i, nor bw has the right to try to tell anyone what character, class, or weapons to use in the game...
Holy-Hamster wrote...
If you can't revive with the new cloak without extra duration, then you weren't very good to start with.
If you can't do objectives with the new cloak without extra duration then you weren't very good to begin with.
If the damage nerf now makes you suck, you weren't very good to begin with.
Overall, very happy with the changes, and I play infiltrator most of the time. I'll still carry gold games regardless of the nerf and watch all the awful infiltrators suffer.
Modifié par smyss, 27 juin 2012 - 05:00 .
InfamousResult wrote...
IIIMystIII wrote...
You can try the "I don't care about score" bit all you want but again, no one is going to buy it.
I don't need people to "buy it". It is simply a fact.
I honestly don't expect you to buy the facts, though- why would you believe the facts that I can't prove to you with solid evidence when you don't even acknowledge the facts that CAN be proven?
yes, people said that the infiltrator's all-encompassing utility was overpowered
yes, it was more powerful than other classes while also being more versatile
yes, it now gives you the CHOICE between the two rather than having both
yes, you are just being a boob if you refuse to help your team because of this nerf whether you specced damage or not
blah blah things you won't listen to blah blah
Modifié par IIIMystIII, 27 juin 2012 - 05:04 .
whateverman7 wrote...
that's bs and i called him on that bs in that thread after he said
that....reason being all things in this game can be used on all
difficulties....just cause people picked the class that allows them to
play the game like sp (which is the only thing infilitrators does the
best), doesnt mean get pissed and mess with that class....also, the
numbers he showed werent showing dominance like he proclaimed....
also, why is it smart to make something weaker to make other things stronger?....that's dumb and hurting your own product....
Modifié par G. P. Burdell, 27 juin 2012 - 05:06 .
Modifié par ZephyrAM, 27 juin 2012 - 05:08 .
Killing one viable strategy does not magically make other strategies suddenly viable. It will make other viable strategies more enticing, yes, but it doesn't suddenly give you 10 new "WOW AWESOME" methods to completing Task X.G. P. Burdell wrote...
Tactical cloak was weakened to make those other abilities stronger competition when it comes to deciding what to use, which in turn does lead to more viable strategies and more replayability.
Modifié par Fox-snipe, 27 juin 2012 - 05:10 .
SalvationThroughDestruction wrote...
Well, with Infiltrators forced to choose between utility and power, I expect to see alot more variety in matches.
Job well done, Bioware
Fox-snipe wrote...
Killing one viable strategy does not magically make other strategies suddenly viable. It will make other viable strategies more enticing, yes, but it doesn't suddenly give you 10 new "WOW AWESOME" methods to completing Task X.
No, all it does is decrease the total number of viable strategies. Explain how that is in any way a positive thing, and without a bias against Infiltrators/Cloak being the so-called "demi-god."
Modifié par G. P. Burdell, 27 juin 2012 - 05:24 .
Modifié par Drummernate, 27 juin 2012 - 05:26 .
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