416 réponses à ce sujet

[ShinTheZero]

Ironically, the biggest issue with the Infiltrator is NOT solved: Krysae Sniper Rifle.
Despite that 35% damage reduction, Krysae + TC is just as that powerful. Don't you think, it's funny? Well, I do.

Instead of reducing that damage, they could have made it easily into a Headshot-Bonus damage because Krysae can't headshot due to its way, it fires. But no, they're thinking "Let's make people do the choice by nerfing duration AND damage".

The irony here is, some classes get also both aspects under one hat and aren't nerfed at all.
Let's start with the Vanguard. Its Biotic Charge makes him invunerable/immortal/unstoppable or whatever you want to call it. Fact is, it gives you mobility, barrier recharge AND a buff in power/weapon damage. That's hilarious.
In direct comparision with the old Infiltrator, the Infiltrator had no real damage power beside cloak. The Vanguard however could combine Charge with a lot of AoE-Powers, which would set up a whole bunch of explosions. Considering this, it would be just fair, if Biotic Charge is also nerfed.

Another example for it is the Soldier. Adrenalin Rush gives you sturdiness, fire power and it's quick to cast. It's a TC which exchanges the invisiblity with bulk. And where is here the nerf?
Compared with the current Infiltrator, the latter is just pathetic. TCs duration is cut short to meager 4s and he has no option to get reasonable bulk. What the hell, BW, explain me that, both are weapon reliant classes and the Infiltrators TC is a worse version of Adrenalin Rush.

So, Bioware Staff, at least give TC an ~8s duration with all ranks till 3, so we can have at least something which makes the Infiltrator somewhat viable.

The damage reduction is a bit extreme. 35% is a lot, 20% reduction (10% at base, 10% at rank 6)would have been fair enough. With this, multi-shot Snipers are not really usefuel anymore (BW has weight issues and its damage is not very good anymore, Valiant the same, Krysae is still the best SR, as it has not get any nerfs through the changes).
One shot sniper rifle are still in the safety zone.

And yes, I will whine about it because all the little noobs here in the forum did the same for the nerf of the Infiltrator. So, we're even with this.

[Deviean]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Needs a little work.

Because you can still score points, revive people, and do objectives without duration increase. You're only a "kill stealing barbarian" if you refuse to do it because it "affects my decisions towards my preferred setup".

You just don't want to because it requires a little less facerolling now, and that would ruin your perfect setup. We wouldn't want to do that.

You obviously don't play the Infiltrators much ? You can't just cloak in front of enemies and revive a teammate. They'll shoot you dead.

So no, you can't. Not as before, not at all.

Modifié par Deviean, 27 juin 2012 - 01:47 .

[Holy-Hamster]

So now we're on to hypothetical situtions about you reviving me and you somehow know that I don't use medi-gel? What?

I use consumables all the time.

I think my point was just proven by "I refuse to run across the map to revive you"

QQ it's too hard and takes too much effort

Aside from actually balancing infiltrators, this patch was the best ever

pure entertainment

[Holy-Hamster]

 And lol @ Devian
I've already said I play infiltrator 80% of the time, but I'm sure you're tracking my every movement and know if I do or not right?
You don't cloak right in front of enemies derp.  You do it before, run up, revive your teammate, and get the hell out.
It's not rocket science.  
Or maybe






WAIT FOR IT






WAIT FOR IT





KILL TEH ENEMIES FIRST! 
OMG, I JUST DISCOVERED I HAVE A GUN!

[billy the squid]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

So now we're on to hypothetical situtions about you reviving me and you somehow know that I don't use medi-gel? What?

I use consumables all the time.

I think my point was just proven by "I refuse to run across the map to revive you"

QQ it's too hard and takes too much effort

Aside from actually balancing infiltrators, this patch was the best ever

pure entertainment

There's a lesson to be learned there. Don't stray from the group. I will revive you if I can. I would have been able to easily before, but I'm not putting myself at greater risk because you decided to rambo the wave. So I'm deliberately not reviving in that case to see if they learn their lesson. Something you should learn too.

[ntrisley]

SneakyDuc wrote...

Nickle wrote...

Glad to see the people whining and having a tantrum have gotten their way. Gj bioware.

It wasn't a whining thing fact of the matter is Infiltrators were OP. I'm not for grey, but nothing should be able to quickly kill bosses on gold. And the duration shouldn't be a problem because most don't even bother to help regardless. Now you have to make a choice versatility or damage.

No it wasn't a "fact of the matter".

The "fact of the matter" was that the numbers of Infiltrators playing on Gold was inflated due to the way that Gold plays.

The "fact of the matter" is that the damage reduction was too much. I should not be hitting Cerberus Assault Troopers in the face with shots from a Widow X while cloaked and having them survive.
The "fact of the matter" is that you still get shot while cloaked, even when you cloak out of line of sight of anything which could hit you.
The "fact of the matter" is that this change will not hit the people who it was intended to hit; namely the shotgun/Krysae Infiltrators.

[Deviean]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

So now we're on to hypothetical situtions about you reviving me and you somehow know that I don't use medi-gel? What?

I use consumables all the time.

I think my point was just proven by "I refuse to run across the map to revive you"

QQ it's too hard and takes too much effort

Aside from actually balancing infiltrators, this patch was the best ever

pure entertainment

No, i'm just pointing out that it's is not "as before", not at all. Yes, such an infiltrator still has an edge, but not by much.

And as i said, this nerf doesn't affect me as it should, theoretically. So i see it as "let's make both parties happy" thing.

See, you're happy.

Modifié par Deviean, 27 juin 2012 - 01:57 .

[lpconfig]

I1 Trust wrote...

Both the infiltrator and multiplayer are dead for me until they fix this.

Ok, See ya.

 On another note, I think your avatar is awesome.

[.458]

The grass is always greener on the other side, someone still has it "too good", the class is only popular cause it is easy, real players don't play this way or that, blah blah blah. Everyone who feels this way, grow a set and learn some skills. Learn tactics, learn strategy. Learn weaknesses and strengths. Learn to improve your own abilities. You can beat the krysae without one if you try. I really feel like making a Krogan comment here (in the style of a true Krogan). But one from the female Krogan, not the male.

[Antagony]

This makes me feel better.

[IsilZhaSB]

Kick In The Door wrote...

No he's not and he's in the right to be angry. 

Anything marginally good gets demonized in this multiplayer. How is that fun? To play a game where anything good gets nerfed. I can see it now! Everyone running around trying to melee mobs to death because their abilities and weapons are no good. All because of the misery of a degenerate minority. 

Nerfs don't really have a place in a co-op game. But it's not even about that is it? Most pro nerfers are butthurt about being outscored, same old story. So now instead of being outscored and me ressing you, you're just gonna get outscored and bleed out or use consumables? Works for me. 

I'm not ressing them because I can't, I'm not ressing them because I won't. 

I desperately tried to find a legitimate argument here, and I could claim I found one, but that would be a lie.

First off, you just declared that someone refusing to revive teammates over petty spite (or any reason for that matter) is not a bad teammate for some reason.  And you topped it off by announcing that you will be the same kind of ****ty teammate.  If you're going to intetionally sabotage the team's chances of completing the round that most certainly makes you a bad teammate.

Secondly, the MP has seen plenty of buffs as well as nerfs.  Buffing too much results in an easy (and boring) game.  Your slippery slope of all weapons and abilities being "no good" is just a worthless statement.

Thirdly, you assumed I cared at all about the totally irrelevant scoring, which you appear to put a lot of stock in.  Which I guess explains the complaining whining since it will likely have an affect on scoring.

[Holy-Hamster]

Careful with your logic Isil, people don't take too kindly to your type of folk 'round these parts.

We must buff all the things because it's a coop game.

[CHAw]

whateverman7 wrote...

that's bs and i called him on that bs in that thread after he said that....reason being all things in this game can be used on all difficulties....just cause people picked the class that allows them to play the game like sp (which is the only thing infilitrators does the best), doesnt mean get pissed and mess with that class....also, the numbers he showed werent showing dominance like he proclaimed....

Of course they show dominance. It's not just about the numbers - it's about how they vary with difficulty setting. The trend was obvious, even without the statistical data available to BioWare, and the people at BioWare are smart enough to figure out the reason for it with or without community advice.

It's not like they didn't figure it out before, back when they re-balanced Stasis right at release, or reduced the ability of Decoy (as well as Combat Drone and Defense Turret)  to function like an actual decoy a while back.

Also, you're assuming that there's supposed to be a class that allows players to play multiplayer as if it was single player. If you asked the developers whether or not that was intended, they'd be bound to tell you that it wasn't. You're not supposed to be able to do everything in multiplayer all by yourself, least of all on Gold difficulty.

also, why is it smart to make something weaker to make other things stronger?....that's dumb and hurting your own product....

It is the intelligent thing to do because it promotes variety. Are you familiar with the complaints about Firebase White/Geth/Gold? The reason those complaints exist is because of the repetitive (that is, doing the same exact thing over and over again) nature of that strategy. Doing this is boring for most individuals, which hurts replay value. In turn, those players are less likely to continue playing the game, instead moving on to something else. Even those who have the stamina to persist with the repetition will move on once the next new thing is released by the competition. Unlike well thought-out balance changes, this actually does hurt the product and the company.

In addition, it makes things more difficult. As with variety, raising the difficulty increases the longevity of a game. It is a new challenge for the players to overcome, which helps to keep them interested.

[kane3977]

billy the squid wrote...
There's a lesson to be learned there. Don't stray from the group. I will revive you if I can. I would have been able to easily before, but I'm not putting myself at greater risk because you decided to rambo the wave. So I'm deliberately not reviving in that case to see if they learn their lesson. Something you should learn too.

We have a winner! Play with the team and a long duration cloak isn't necessary for revives. Shockingly enough, tactical cloak isn't a requirement to revive someone. People actually play matches on gold with no infiltrators in the lobby and revives still happen.

As someone that likes playing inf, I don't really care about this nerf because it just means I'm no longer expected to stop what I'm doing to go save the "hero" of the lobby. I'm not lopping off 40% of my damage to make saving morons easier.

[Sinapus]

Deviean wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Needs a little work.

Because you can still score points, revive people, and do objectives without duration increase. You're only a "kill stealing barbarian" if you refuse to do it because it "affects my decisions towards my preferred setup".

You just don't want to because it requires a little less facerolling now, and that would ruin your perfect setup. We wouldn't want to do that.

You obviously don't play the Infiltrators much ? You can't just cloak in front of enemies and revive a teammate. They'll shoot you dead.

So no, you can't. Not as before, not at all.

Does Holy Hamster even play? No manifest visible, at least...

...of course his smug glee at what he thinks is pain in the people he dislikes so much is more suspect.

[Pavs719]

I play infiltrator and yes i'm annoyed they nerfed the TC. I am also annoyed they never fixed the uncloaking bug. I do objectives and revives. I now have to run to revive and hope i get there in time. I had issues with the TC uncloaking a seconds after i've cloaked. I have been dropped more times than anything, even if i've hide to cloak or not. I used the black widow before the nerf now it wont work. In essence i'm sick of bioware messing about with the only thing an infiltrator has compared to the other classes, you don't see them being nerfed.

Modifié par Pavs719, 27 juin 2012 - 11:58 .

[Kick In The Door]

IsilZhaSB wrote...

Kick In The Door wrote...

No he's not and he's in the right to be angry. 

Anything marginally good gets demonized in this multiplayer. How is that fun? To play a game where anything good gets nerfed. I can see it now! Everyone running around trying to melee mobs to death because their abilities and weapons are no good. All because of the misery of a degenerate minority. 

Nerfs don't really have a place in a co-op game. But it's not even about that is it? Most pro nerfers are butthurt about being outscored, same old story. So now instead of being outscored and me ressing you, you're just gonna get outscored and bleed out or use consumables? Works for me. 

I'm not ressing them because I can't, I'm not ressing them because I won't. 

I desperately tried to find a legitimate argument here, and I could claim I found one, but that would be a lie.

First off, you just declared that someone refusing to revive teammates over petty spite (or any reason for that matter) is not a bad teammate for some reason.  And you topped it off by announcing that you will be the same kind of ****ty teammate.  If you're going to intetionally sabotage the team's chances of completing the round that most certainly makes you a bad teammate.

Secondly, the MP has seen plenty of buffs as well as nerfs.  Buffing too much results in an easy (and boring) game.  Your slippery slope of all weapons and abilities being "no good" is just a worthless statement.

Thirdly, you assumed I cared at all about the totally irrelevant scoring, which you appear to put a lot of stock in.  Which I guess explains the complaining whining since it will likely have an affect on scoring.

Well I got one! That counts for something. I wonder how many others I'll get.

[Immortal Strife]

Adapt, Darwin, I ching. Whatever man we gotta roll with it...

[Deviean]

Ok, another test-match on Gold.

Human Infiltrator.

Tactical Cloak : Bonus Time.

Alliance Training : Bonus Weight.

Weapons : Saber III, Talon III.


Guys, you are overreacting, seriously. Nemesis/Centurion - two shots with Saber, one shot with Talon point blank(as before), Phantom goes down in seconds with perfect shots. Atlas - i dropped one almost by myself, reasonably quickly(but with armor piercing V mode and armor piercing ammo).

Even without damage bonus the Infiltrators are very powerful.

[IsilZhaSB]

Kick In The Door wrote...

IsilZhaSB wrote...

Kick In The Door wrote...

No he's not and he's in the right to be angry. 

Anything marginally good gets demonized in this multiplayer. How is that fun? To play a game where anything good gets nerfed. I can see it now! Everyone running around trying to melee mobs to death because their abilities and weapons are no good. All because of the misery of a degenerate minority. 

Nerfs don't really have a place in a co-op game. But it's not even about that is it? Most pro nerfers are butthurt about being outscored, same old story. So now instead of being outscored and me ressing you, you're just gonna get outscored and bleed out or use consumables? Works for me. 

I'm not ressing them because I can't, I'm not ressing them because I won't. 

I desperately tried to find a legitimate argument here, and I could claim I found one, but that would be a lie.

First off, you just declared that someone refusing to revive teammates over petty spite (or any reason for that matter) is not a bad teammate for some reason.  And you topped it off by announcing that you will be the same kind of ****ty teammate.  If you're going to intetionally sabotage the team's chances of completing the round that most certainly makes you a bad teammate.

Secondly, the MP has seen plenty of buffs as well as nerfs.  Buffing too much results in an easy (and boring) game.  Your slippery slope of all weapons and abilities being "no good" is just a worthless statement.

Thirdly, you assumed I cared at all about the totally irrelevant scoring, which you appear to put a lot of stock in.  Which I guess explains the complaining whining since it will likely have an affect on scoring.

Well I got one! That counts for something. I wonder how many others I'll get.

bah, invoking Poe's law is not a difficult feat to accomplish.  <_<

[Cundu_Ertur]

Deviean wrote...

Ok, another test-match on Gold.

Human Infiltrator.

Tactical Cloak : Bonus Time.

Alliance Training : Bonus Weight.

Weapons : Saber III, Talon III.


Guys, you are overreacting, seriously. Nemesis/Centurion - two shots with Saber, one shot with Talon point blank(as before), Phantom goes down in seconds with perfect shots. Atlas - i dropped one almost by myself, reasonably quickly(but with armor piercing V mode and armor piercing ammo).

Even without damage bonus the Infiltrators are very powerful.

That's part of the problem -- this hammers people who use sniper rifles more than anyone else. Shotgun infiltrators probably won't ever notice that anything changed until they go to rez someone. Use a sniper rifle and you can tell after having to shoot the same thing over and over. One reason why sniper rifles were so underpowered was because of the infiltrators' bonus to them. Now that's been reduced, but the rifles haven't been adjusted to compensate at all.

[megawug]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

That's part of the problem -- this hammers people who use sniper rifles more than anyone else. Shotgun infiltrators probably won't ever notice that anything changed until they go to rez someone. Use a sniper rifle and you can tell after having to shoot the same thing over and over. One reason why sniper rifles were so underpowered was because of the infiltrators' bonus to them. Now that's been reduced, but the rifles haven't been adjusted to compensate at all.

Yeah, the nerf on the sniper damage bonus doesn't solve any problems.  The Krysae and shotgun infiltrators are hardly affected, while all (legit) sniper rifles are essentially nerfed.

Eric should already know that speed runs are dominated by 1) Krysae infiltrators and 2) shotgun infiltrators.  The rest of the sniper rifles were never a problem and I've never seen anyone ask for a nerf on them.

[Holy-Hamster]

Sinapus wrote...

Deviean wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Needs a little work.

Because you can still score points, revive people, and do objectives without duration increase. You're only a "kill stealing barbarian" if you refuse to do it because it "affects my decisions towards my preferred setup".

You just don't want to because it requires a little less facerolling now, and that would ruin your perfect setup. We wouldn't want to do that.

You obviously don't play the Infiltrators much ? You can't just cloak in front of enemies and revive a teammate. They'll shoot you dead.

So no, you can't. Not as before, not at all.

Does Holy Hamster even play? No manifest visible, at least...

...of course his smug glee at what he thinks is pain in the people he dislikes so much is more suspect.

Now you're trying to check out my profile? 

But if you're that desperate to see it who am I to deny you your pleasure?  Knock yourself out.  I'm sure you'll find some mysterious way to "analyze" my manifest into what type of player I am and how I get sick pleasure from....uhh...some kind of pain in others from my manifest.

Origin ID - Spunkn

be sure and let me know if it doesn't work, wouldn't want to disappoint

Have fun 

[CHAw]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

Now you're trying to check out my profile? 

But if you're that desperate to see it who am I to deny you your pleasure?  Knock yourself out.  I'm sure you'll find some mysterious way to "analyze" my manifest into what type of player I am and how I get sick pleasure from....uhh...some kind of pain in others from my manifest.

Origin ID - Spunkn

be sure and let me know if it doesn't work, wouldn't want to disappoint

Have fun 

I don't know what Sinapus is looking for, but your medi-gel:ops survival pack ratio tells me that you're wiser than the average player, regardless of your actual competence or propensity towards teamwork.

Also, your available amps suggest that you mostly use assault and sniper rifles. The latter would not be surprising for somebody who plays Infiltrator a lot.